looking back over the last decade and a half the pattern seems to be that these low end versions don't live very long. they seemd to be intended to broaden the market but are probably not financially viable on their own. they may enjoy a couple releases (if at all - not sure gmax ever had an update?) and then get discontinued.
there was a low end maya edition in like 2002 (maya builder?), softimage foundation happened and of course gmax. as long as they are free, no problem. but maybe don't build your workflow around these.
Except this time they're going all subscription next year, right? They've got to have a scheme for people that can't afford 200 bucks a month for their products, if they're interested in this market as well.
I'll be perfectly transparent here, like many modelers based in exotic countries where copyright laws are kind of a joke I have not always been using legit copies of the software I use. I also, like many out there, DESPERATELY want to go legal. That's whay I am interested in initiative like Maya LT, that has a few very annoying limitations from the looks of it but still is a good tool according to its users. But I don't want to use Maya, I want to use Max. I love this old heap of smoking poo.
I just wish ADSK got that and came up with a similar offer for Max. There are probably as many game studios using Max than there are using Maya, why trying to push us toward Maya only...?
Except this time they're going all subscription next year, right? They've got to have a scheme for people that can't afford 200 bucks a month for their products, if they're interested in this market as well.
I'll be perfectly transparent here, like many modelers based in exotic countries where copyright laws are kind of a joke I have not always been using legit copies of the software I use. I also, like many out there, DESPERATELY want to go legal. That's whay I am interested in initiative like Maya LT, that has a few very annoying limitations from the looks of it but still is a good tool according to its users. But I don't want to use Maya, I want to use Max. I love this old heap of smoking poo.
I just wish ADSK got that and came up with a similar offer for Max. There are probably as many game studios using Max than there are using Maya, why trying to push us toward Maya only...?
/rant off, too
Same as my country. Even most of the studios here doesn't use legal copies because nobody cares.
But it's like autodesk trying to make maya game changer in game industry with the features max has already and far better with plugins especially for modelling. Feeling a little bit -step child- as a max user here. And this maya lt thing, making it more accessible compard to max for indies. Really can't understand what are trying to do. Maybe the thing they do to softimage?
I actually started with it, it's a good app in its own right, prolly would have stuck with it if it played better with other tools in my pipeline. And then there's the UI, which is really reminiscent of Zbrush's in its akwardness...
It took me so long to get used to Max after years of Blender that I think I'd quit modeling altogether if I had to jump to Maya now. But 5 service packs last year, ah! It's certainly getting a lot of support from ADSK.
I started with Blender around 10 years ago mostly due to easy UV unwrap and gradually went from Max to Blender completely. With its recent addition of normals editing and attribute transfer it filled the last gap. It's just everything is more convenient there.
Only thing I buy and use Max for now is to convert files to .max since studios seems so bound to it. Rather their programmers than artists.
So any gmax or LT version would be very welcomed if allows to import and then save in standard max files. Sure it will never happen.
I started with Blender around 10 years ago mostly due to easy UV unwrap and gradually went from Max to Blender completely. With its recent addition of normals editing and attribute transfer it filled the last gap. It's just everything is more convenient there.
Agreed, Max UV toolset is really backward still. I use Headus. The one area Blender is still lacking imo are scripts. There is so much Max script goodness out there and I must be using something like 20-30 on a daily basis. I haven't touched Blender in a while but I don't think there's anything like Scriptspot for Blender users.
As for other, smaller scripts, I found that it is usually just a matter of asking around on the BlenderArtists forums. Some people there follow everything very closely and will point you in the right direction.
Ah yes, I vaguely remembered something like that come to think of it. I had been browsing and trying stuff but if Max is famous for breaking features at each new release, for Blender it's a disaster each time you update. And unlike Max, each new release of Blender adds a lot so you have a big incentive to update often. Commercial scripts like Miauu's stuff are maintained and updated very regularly on the other hand.
But you know, maybe you guys have a real point here. Seeing how Blender fundation is continuing to improve it, if they really do this UI overhaul they announced for 3.0 I guess that when ADSK goes all sub if there's no interesting plan for Max I might actually end up picking up Blender again, and figure something to convert my models to .max when I sell them. And maybe studios finally start using Blender and give ADSK a run for their money. Who knows...I think Funcom used Blender for their Lego MMO. I vaguely remember a lecture or something.
The second half of last decade Max was so awful in everything, awful hardly working snapping, awful UV, messy animation tools, no decent material preview, a slow crashy hell you could hardly tolerate at all. You were need to constantly find scripts and buy plugins to do your work.
And suddenly Blender came as a breath of fresh air where everything just work, easy quick and simple. And free . Then instead of developing missing features they started to do new interface. I personally never had a problem with their first original one. But people said it's bad so they wasted their time.
Meanwhile Autodesk woke up from a coma and fixed all the things I hated and added all those I moved to Blender for.
Still I've became so accustomed to Blender they really have to start doing new interface again to force me back to Max.
ps. Maya is still "hire a programmer" kind of 3d tool imo.
I believe it's because Maya is more of a complete package for games. It has the rigging/animation/uvs/modeling/level tools required to export and work with. Max has better modeling tools, but it lacks on a lot of the others.
Since I'm an environment artist, I find Max to be a much better modeling props tool, where Maya has a better level/instancing/exporting tools than Max.
... It has the rigging/animation/uvs/modeling/level tools required to export and work with. Max has better modeling tools, but it lacks on a lot of the others.
What if your offer is amazing and you had to work with Maya? ; .... where Maya has a better level/instancing/exporting tools than Max.
)
Then I would learn Maya, I guess. But chances for me to work in an environment where I am required to use Maya are virtually non-existant. I work alone so it's more about finding the tools I am most comfortable and fast with.
I guess I was venting about ADSK trying to force our hands with Maya, when so many of us just like Max the way it is. I'm not saying Maya is a bad tool, I've never even tried it.
You last comment sparked my interest, I'd also like to understand what you mean by level tool. I consider myself an environment artist and I find Max great for what I do.
One thing Maya does definitely better is attribute transfer. I was always hardly able to project UV from one object to another with Max projection modifier . (For some complicated hierarchical lods etc.)
As a feature it first appeared in Max probably , perhaps earlier than GATOR in Softimage. But has never been working reliably
Since I'm an environment artist, I find Max to be a much better modeling props tool, where Maya has a better level/instancing/exporting tools than Max.
Instancing tools? Is there something I'm doing wrong :poly124:? You can't group instances together then make many other operations on them ( duplicate further, collapse, combine, etc), can't attach or detach geometry from an instance without losing the other instances, it's a hassle to do simple things like changing pivots, or mirror them, and you get a million nodes you have to clean up every time :poly127:
3dsmax takes care of these for you, it's a breeze to work witht hem. Maya's snapping tools are pretty cool on the other hand, for snapping levels together. :poly121:
Though I wouldn't mind an LT version of Max, I don't see it happening.
AD seem to be determined to force Maya down everyone's throats. I've tried Maya, and it's modeling tools and workflow are a bit of a headache compared to max.
I would use Maya LT, but at the moment, it has limitations in the wrong places, such as no python support, and only shackled MEL support (no Goz support).
The only way I see Max still being financially viable for anyone outside of a full scale studio from next year onwards would be if AD knocked about 60% at least off of that monthly sub price, but i doubt they'd do that.
I would use Maya LT, but at the moment, it has limitations in the wrong places, such as no python support, and only shackled MEL support (no Goz support).
This baffles me to no end. No API, no python, just wtf. I guess being 'indie' some how means you don't need to roll up your sleeves and make/leverage custom tools.
That kind of limitation is clearly something thought up by some marketing suit who cares nothing for real production needs.
If they included a full API anyone could mod LT to be just as featured, if not better featured, that the full version of Maya. They have to find a way to charge you $100 more a month somehow. Personally I think they should get rid of the LT silliness and just cut the price of Maya in half. It would be win/win for everyone.
They really seem to be struggling with that "Sweet Spot" mentality. They argue that it needs to sell or license at a specific price in order to be profitable. I just wonder sometimes if it were cheaper and more accessible, might it not also sell more?
With so many companies splitting things between indie vs studio pricing I don't see why Autodesk can't get on board with that pricing scheme. Make less than $100K, it costs X amount of money with full features. Make more than X? Well you need to buy into the studio license for the full price.
My whole issue is that Maya is actually just a hub to plug in the tools you use, but it's priced as a solution, not a hub. If their solutions were that great we wouldn't need plugins. If Autodesk were to just sell the bare Maya nodal system for less and allow me to buy my own modeling, UVing, and rigging tools to plug into it I'd be all over it.
Replies
so very true. ^^
looking back over the last decade and a half the pattern seems to be that these low end versions don't live very long. they seemd to be intended to broaden the market but are probably not financially viable on their own. they may enjoy a couple releases (if at all - not sure gmax ever had an update?) and then get discontinued.
there was a low end maya edition in like 2002 (maya builder?), softimage foundation happened and of course gmax. as long as they are free, no problem. but maybe don't build your workflow around these.
/rant
I'll be perfectly transparent here, like many modelers based in exotic countries where copyright laws are kind of a joke I have not always been using legit copies of the software I use. I also, like many out there, DESPERATELY want to go legal. That's whay I am interested in initiative like Maya LT, that has a few very annoying limitations from the looks of it but still is a good tool according to its users. But I don't want to use Maya, I want to use Max. I love this old heap of smoking poo.
I just wish ADSK got that and came up with a similar offer for Max. There are probably as many game studios using Max than there are using Maya, why trying to push us toward Maya only...?
/rant off, too
Same as my country. Even most of the studios here doesn't use legal copies because nobody cares.
But it's like autodesk trying to make maya game changer in game industry with the features max has already and far better with plugins especially for modelling. Feeling a little bit -step child- as a max user here. And this maya lt thing, making it more accessible compard to max for indies. Really can't understand what are trying to do. Maybe the thing they do to softimage?
That is to say that Maya isn't an old heap of smoking poo? ;D
technically it is a slightly younger piece of poo. but smells even worse.
is there even a fresh cg app out there anymore? even the supposedly soon-to-take-over-everything modo is a whopping 10 years old already.
I actually started with it, it's a good app in its own right, prolly would have stuck with it if it played better with other tools in my pipeline. And then there's the UI, which is really reminiscent of Zbrush's in its akwardness...
It took me so long to get used to Max after years of Blender that I think I'd quit modeling altogether if I had to jump to Maya now. But 5 service packs last year, ah! It's certainly getting a lot of support from ADSK.
Only thing I buy and use Max for now is to convert files to .max since studios seems so bound to it. Rather their programmers than artists.
So any gmax or LT version would be very welcomed if allows to import and then save in standard max files. Sure it will never happen.
Agreed, Max UV toolset is really backward still. I use Headus. The one area Blender is still lacking imo are scripts. There is so much Max script goodness out there and I must be using something like 20-30 on a daily basis. I haven't touched Blender in a while but I don't think there's anything like Scriptspot for Blender users.
http://blenderaddonlist.blogspot.fr/
As for other, smaller scripts, I found that it is usually just a matter of asking around on the BlenderArtists forums. Some people there follow everything very closely and will point you in the right direction.
But you know, maybe you guys have a real point here. Seeing how Blender fundation is continuing to improve it, if they really do this UI overhaul they announced for 3.0 I guess that when ADSK goes all sub if there's no interesting plan for Max I might actually end up picking up Blender again, and figure something to convert my models to .max when I sell them. And maybe studios finally start using Blender and give ADSK a run for their money. Who knows...I think Funcom used Blender for their Lego MMO. I vaguely remember a lecture or something.
What if your offer is amazing and you had to work with Maya?
And suddenly Blender came as a breath of fresh air where everything just work, easy quick and simple. And free . Then instead of developing missing features they started to do new interface. I personally never had a problem with their first original one. But people said it's bad so they wasted their time.
Meanwhile Autodesk woke up from a coma and fixed all the things I hated and added all those I moved to Blender for.
Still I've became so accustomed to Blender they really have to start doing new interface again to force me back to Max.
ps. Maya is still "hire a programmer" kind of 3d tool imo.
Since I'm an environment artist, I find Max to be a much better modeling props tool, where Maya has a better level/instancing/exporting tools than Max.
hilarious.
What level tools?
Then I would learn Maya, I guess. But chances for me to work in an environment where I am required to use Maya are virtually non-existant. I work alone so it's more about finding the tools I am most comfortable and fast with.
I guess I was venting about ADSK trying to force our hands with Maya, when so many of us just like Max the way it is. I'm not saying Maya is a bad tool, I've never even tried it.
You last comment sparked my interest, I'd also like to understand what you mean by level tool. I consider myself an environment artist and I find Max great for what I do.
As a feature it first appeared in Max probably , perhaps earlier than GATOR in Softimage. But has never been working reliably
Instancing tools? Is there something I'm doing wrong :poly124:? You can't group instances together then make many other operations on them ( duplicate further, collapse, combine, etc), can't attach or detach geometry from an instance without losing the other instances, it's a hassle to do simple things like changing pivots, or mirror them, and you get a million nodes you have to clean up every time :poly127:
3dsmax takes care of these for you, it's a breeze to work witht hem. Maya's snapping tools are pretty cool on the other hand, for snapping levels together. :poly121:
AD seem to be determined to force Maya down everyone's throats. I've tried Maya, and it's modeling tools and workflow are a bit of a headache compared to max.
I would use Maya LT, but at the moment, it has limitations in the wrong places, such as no python support, and only shackled MEL support (no Goz support).
The only way I see Max still being financially viable for anyone outside of a full scale studio from next year onwards would be if AD knocked about 60% at least off of that monthly sub price, but i doubt they'd do that.
This baffles me to no end. No API, no python, just wtf. I guess being 'indie' some how means you don't need to roll up your sleeves and make/leverage custom tools.
That kind of limitation is clearly something thought up by some marketing suit who cares nothing for real production needs.
With so many companies splitting things between indie vs studio pricing I don't see why Autodesk can't get on board with that pricing scheme. Make less than $100K, it costs X amount of money with full features. Make more than X? Well you need to buy into the studio license for the full price.