Oh trust me, some people wanted to.
Honestly, Rockstar isn't for everyone. And its hard to talk about the company without it sounding like slander or being negative. It is what it is, and its a tough gig. Some people make it through the hours just fine, others burn out. For me what made me leave was the lack of Work / Life balance. On Max Payne 3, I sensed it was time for me to move on.
Its hard work, working for R*, no denying that. But, I will say, they do know how to party hard and reward their employees well as well. But again, its not for everyone.
Overtime is a part of our industry, R* just kicks it up a notch.
To give you an example, on Bully, the last two years of development was 18 hour days, 7 days a week, minimal breaks, and a sacrifice to holiday time.
:poly121: Jeez! The games the R* guys produce are excellent and achieve massive commercial success. BUT, that kind of work life is insane to me. You would have no life. I know some crunch time is common place in this industry, but two years of 18 hour days, 7 days a week is not right. Not for me thanks.
I lived 15 mins away from work. So that helped. It wasn't mandatory that it was 18 hours, usually just 12 for most people. For me though, it was a bit of a special case as I was one out of two environment artists remaining on the project by that time. Most had quit and moved on. If you watch the credits at the beginning of the game, it'll say the two Environment Artists, that's all that was left. Haha. I literally went insane for two years. But I'm very proud of Bully and all the hard work that was put into it. I slept like a MOFO when it was done though, I tell ya that. Oh, and I discovered dating again.
Working at Rockstar is a lot of hard work. The hours are intense and the atmosphere can be somewhat chaotic at times. There's a pretty high turn around rate due to people quitting. But, ultimately, the end product is worth the troubles. The thing I enjoyed about R* was knowing that the game would not ship unless it was as close to perfect as possible. R* has very high standards to adhere to, which is great. Its just a big grind to get the game done. To give you an example, on Bully, the last two years of development was 18 hour days, 7 days a week, minimal breaks, and a sacrifice to holiday time. It burnt a lot of people out. The good part about R* though is that at the end of it, when the game ships, they reward their employees very handsomely. Its a balancing act. If you don't want to work hard, don't work at R*. If you wanna work hard and get a great reward at the end with a high rated game and a good completion bonus, R* could be the place for you.
A lot of people talk a lot of smack about R*, and even though I no longer work there and it was grueling and tough... Some of my best industry memories are from there. Work hard / Play hard.
Wow that sounds super tough! I'm hoping to catch a bit of a break after uni, mainly because I've worked myself so hard this year (and still one semester to go) that I think I'd burn out pretty fast if I didn't. I'm hoping to get a job where my work allows me to have a life around it; at least for now, as I feel like I've got a fair bit of socialising etc to catch up on - I've been somewhat of a recluse lately!
I'll have to give it a lot of thought. It's a tough call. I guess I'll see what happens, and go with my gut instinct.
Thanks for the detailed response, your insight is invaluable and I'll definitely take it into consideration when I'm picking my career path. It's much appreciated!
I lived 15 mins away from work. So that helped. It wasn't mandatory that it was 18 hours, usually just 12 for most people. For me though, it was a bit of a special case as I was one out of two environment artists remaining on the project by that time. Most had quit and moved on. If you watch the credits at the beginning of the game, it'll say the two Environment Artists, that's all that was left. Haha. I literally went insane for two years. But I'm very proud of Bully and all the hard work that was put into it. I slept like a MOFO when it was done though, I tell ya that. Oh, and I discovered dating again.
'Just 12' - haha. Wow that's impressive. So what was it like before the 2 year push? And did you get a break after release? It sounds like one hell of a commitment!
Why would anyone work 12 hour days at a company that wants people to work 18 hours?! Find a company that respects their employees, they shouldn't be taking advantage of them.
'Just 12' - haha. Wow that's impressive. So what was it like before the 2 year push? And did you get a break after release? It sounds like one hell of a commitment!
It was awesome before the big crunch. Lots of fun, a great team to work with. We had an amazing bond and felt like a family, more than a videogame dev team. Every time someone left, we felt the loss in more ways than one. And usually we'd have one hell of a good party after hours to send them on their way.
We did get time off after the project. A lot of time. I think my time off total was close to 2 months. I don't remember the exact details to the day, but it was enough time for me to travel across Canada, visit family and friends, and completely decompress. Plus the completion bonus was enough for me to buy a new car. The rewards were great, but getting to those rewards was war.
ZacD: Its pretty normal for most companies to require OT from their employees. Sure R* may sound like it was a lot, but there are others out there that are just as bad, if not worse. I'm not trying to defend them, far from... Just saying that you're right, in that finding a company that treats their employees well and respects their work / life balance is an important aspect when applying around.
One thing that I've done while on job interviews is request to be walked around the studio. Not to see the building, but to pay attention to the employees. If the general vibe is negative and the employees look like zombies, it usually is a good sign that the company isn't a good one to work for.
All in all though, we are the lucky 1% of the population that is getting paid to do what we love. So a little bit of overtime is well worth it when you think that you could be out there, working a job you hate, regretting your life choices, and wishing you were somewhere else. We make Videogames, how F'ing cool is that!!!!?? I'd gladly work 12 to 18 hours in a comfy office with 'perks', over 8 hours of being out in the cold slapping shingles on some persons roof.
It was awesome before the big crunch. Lots of fun, a great team to work with. We had an amazing bond and felt like a family, more than a videogame dev team. Every time someone left, we felt the loss in more ways than one. And usually we'd have one hell of a good party after hours to send them on their way.
We did get time off after the project. A lot of time. I think my time off total was close to 2 months. I don't remember the exact details to the day, but it was enough time for me to travel across Canada, visit family and friends, and completely decompress. Plus the completion bonus was enough for me to buy a new car. The rewards were great, but getting to those rewards was war.
ZacD: Its pretty normal for most companies to require OT from their employees. Sure R* may sound like it was a lot, but there are others out there that are just as bad, if not worse. I'm not trying to defend them, far from... Just saying that you're right, in that finding a company that treats their employees well and respects their work / life balance is an important aspect when applying around.
One thing that I've done while on job interviews is request to be walked around the studio. Not to see the building, but to pay attention to the employees. If the general vibe is negative and the employees look like zombies, it usually is a good sign that the company isn't a good one to work for.
All in all though, we are the lucky 1% of the population that is getting paid to do what we love. So a little bit of overtime is well worth it when you think that you could be out there, working a job you hate, regretting your life choices, and wishing you were somewhere else. We make Videogames, how F'ing cool is that!!!!?? I'd gladly work 12 to 18 hours in a comfy office with 'perks', over 8 hours of being out in the cold slapping shingles on some persons roof.
That does sound nice. I think a strong bond with colleagues is essential. I love the idea about being shown around, that's brilliant. I may have to steal that one from you...
I completely agree about loving our work. It is brilliant, and I'm so glad I'm a part of it. At this point in my life I think I'd like to find a job that is slightly less demanding than what you have described. If I'm ever up for a huge challenge then I'll certainly keep it in mind; but I feel that I could do with a bit of a break, then start my career with a slightly less intense workload.
Did you continue to work for R* after that project? Or is one usually enough before you move on? Needless to say, my respect for the R* devs is even higher now!
Wow, this is awesome - I'm really impressed that it's your first project in UE4! I'm working on a small scene in UE4 right now, so I have a few questions if that's cool -- did you have previous experience with other game engines? Also, wondering how long this whole project took you. Last question is, what was your final tri count for this whole scene (if you think that detail is relevant)?
Thanks for sharing all of your breakdowns, especially, those are super interesting and helpful!
@Marshkin - No problem! I'll keep them coming as I make them.
@gsokol - Thank you, it was a big project but I'm really happy with the result. It's nice to know the breakdowns are going down well too! Bully was a great game, I'd highly recommend it!
@Carabiner - Thanks! I'm happy to answer questions.
Yes, I've worked with UDK (Unreal 3) and CryEngine before, so I already had the basics of game engines, and quite a bit of UDK knowledge translated into this project.
I started the project at the start of October, and finished it around mid January. I had a couple of days off for Christmas, but other than that I was averaging 10-12 hours per day. Not sure what that amounts to, but I found it pretty tough!
The tri count for the whole scene is 423,847, including all instances as separate objects. I don't know how relevant this is, though, as it runs smoothly and consistently at a high frame rate. I've minimalised the draw call and texture space wastage as much as possible throughout, as this seems to impact the performance more than polys (to a point!).
Thanks! I'm really glad people are finding them interesting, and if they're helping too, that's a big bonus.
This is rad man. Huge undertaking. Really dig the presentation sheets you did. Good job!
I sadly missed out on playing Bully....sorta wanna go back and play it now
Oh I don't 'embrace' OT at all. In fact, I hope that I never have to work those kinds of hours ever again in my career. But I also acknowledge that OT is a part of our industry and from time to time we will / do have to put extra hours in in order to meet deadlines.
I could go on a rather large rant about how our industry could avoid OT, but... I'd rather not
Replies
Honestly, Rockstar isn't for everyone. And its hard to talk about the company without it sounding like slander or being negative. It is what it is, and its a tough gig. Some people make it through the hours just fine, others burn out. For me what made me leave was the lack of Work / Life balance. On Max Payne 3, I sensed it was time for me to move on.
Its hard work, working for R*, no denying that. But, I will say, they do know how to party hard and reward their employees well as well. But again, its not for everyone.
Overtime is a part of our industry, R* just kicks it up a notch.
:poly121: Jeez! The games the R* guys produce are excellent and achieve massive commercial success. BUT, that kind of work life is insane to me. You would have no life. I know some crunch time is common place in this industry, but two years of 18 hour days, 7 days a week is not right. Not for me thanks.
If you were working 18 hours, with lets say 1 hour commute to work, you would end up being at work for like 20 hours.
You would barely get 2-3 hours of sleep, that is if you cut out time to prepare meals, or shower and stuff like that..
that's crazy.
and for 2 years, I couldn't do that, no way
Wow that sounds super tough! I'm hoping to catch a bit of a break after uni, mainly because I've worked myself so hard this year (and still one semester to go) that I think I'd burn out pretty fast if I didn't. I'm hoping to get a job where my work allows me to have a life around it; at least for now, as I feel like I've got a fair bit of socialising etc to catch up on - I've been somewhat of a recluse lately!
I'll have to give it a lot of thought. It's a tough call. I guess I'll see what happens, and go with my gut instinct.
Thanks for the detailed response, your insight is invaluable and I'll definitely take it into consideration when I'm picking my career path. It's much appreciated!
'Just 12' - haha. Wow that's impressive. So what was it like before the 2 year push? And did you get a break after release? It sounds like one hell of a commitment!
Thanks! I started it at the start of October, and worked solidly, averaging about 10-12 hours a day, and finished around mid-January.
It was awesome before the big crunch. Lots of fun, a great team to work with. We had an amazing bond and felt like a family, more than a videogame dev team. Every time someone left, we felt the loss in more ways than one. And usually we'd have one hell of a good party after hours to send them on their way.
We did get time off after the project. A lot of time. I think my time off total was close to 2 months. I don't remember the exact details to the day, but it was enough time for me to travel across Canada, visit family and friends, and completely decompress. Plus the completion bonus was enough for me to buy a new car. The rewards were great, but getting to those rewards was war.
ZacD: Its pretty normal for most companies to require OT from their employees. Sure R* may sound like it was a lot, but there are others out there that are just as bad, if not worse. I'm not trying to defend them, far from... Just saying that you're right, in that finding a company that treats their employees well and respects their work / life balance is an important aspect when applying around.
One thing that I've done while on job interviews is request to be walked around the studio. Not to see the building, but to pay attention to the employees. If the general vibe is negative and the employees look like zombies, it usually is a good sign that the company isn't a good one to work for.
All in all though, we are the lucky 1% of the population that is getting paid to do what we love. So a little bit of overtime is well worth it when you think that you could be out there, working a job you hate, regretting your life choices, and wishing you were somewhere else. We make Videogames, how F'ing cool is that!!!!?? I'd gladly work 12 to 18 hours in a comfy office with 'perks', over 8 hours of being out in the cold slapping shingles on some persons roof.
That does sound nice. I think a strong bond with colleagues is essential. I love the idea about being shown around, that's brilliant. I may have to steal that one from you...
I completely agree about loving our work. It is brilliant, and I'm so glad I'm a part of it. At this point in my life I think I'd like to find a job that is slightly less demanding than what you have described. If I'm ever up for a huge challenge then I'll certainly keep it in mind; but I feel that I could do with a bit of a break, then start my career with a slightly less intense workload.
Did you continue to work for R* after that project? Or is one usually enough before you move on? Needless to say, my respect for the R* devs is even higher now!
Never really a fan of people embracing this
@WesleyArthur -
This is rad man. Huge undertaking. Really dig the presentation sheets you did. Good job!
I sadly missed out on playing Bully....sorta wanna go back and play it now
Thanks for sharing all of your breakdowns, especially, those are super interesting and helpful!
@gsokol - Thank you, it was a big project but I'm really happy with the result. It's nice to know the breakdowns are going down well too! Bully was a great game, I'd highly recommend it!
@Carabiner - Thanks! I'm happy to answer questions.
Yes, I've worked with UDK (Unreal 3) and CryEngine before, so I already had the basics of game engines, and quite a bit of UDK knowledge translated into this project.
I started the project at the start of October, and finished it around mid January. I had a couple of days off for Christmas, but other than that I was averaging 10-12 hours per day. Not sure what that amounts to, but I found it pretty tough!
The tri count for the whole scene is 423,847, including all instances as separate objects. I don't know how relevant this is, though, as it runs smoothly and consistently at a high frame rate. I've minimalised the draw call and texture space wastage as much as possible throughout, as this seems to impact the performance more than polys (to a point!).
Thanks! I'm really glad people are finding them interesting, and if they're helping too, that's a big bonus.
Oh I don't 'embrace' OT at all. In fact, I hope that I never have to work those kinds of hours ever again in my career. But I also acknowledge that OT is a part of our industry and from time to time we will / do have to put extra hours in in order to meet deadlines.
I could go on a rather large rant about how our industry could avoid OT, but... I'd rather not
Thanks shinobix! And I really appreciate your insight into the industry, I'm finding it very helpful!