I have a very long way to go . Last year we had very interesting subject called Game development with UDK at the university and it was very helpful and I continued to self educate ^^. Still i have a lot to learn
As of this year, citizens of Bulgaria can now work freely across the European Union without many restrictions - so if you keep working and learning, you'll have plenty of options later down the line
Ill answer mine then. (eventhough it will be many years before I actually get a job in games)
The thing that seems nice about Facepunch is how they seem to give you the opportunity to have a go with your own ideas, and work on what you like.
On their website they say:
Were not going to tell you what hours to work. You can work that out yourself. If you work best by starting at 2AM then you can work at 2AM. If you work best from home, then work from home.
We arent going to tell you what to do. Youll probably just slip into doing something.
If youre an artist then people might ask for your help on their project. You might see something that you think could be improved, and choose to improve it.
Being scared of failing is what leads people to make safe decisions. We dont want you to make safe decisions. We want you to be bold and different. This is the only way to innovate.
Youre not going to get fired if you start a project and then 3 months in you realise that the whole idea is shit. We applaud you for realising and not wasting any more of your time on it. Salvage whatever you can, learn from your experiences and move on.
It seems like a very appealing place to work and somewhere where you could actually challenge and push yourself to get better at your job.
EDIT: I forgot one important thing. They seem incredibly dedicated to their customers and their creations. They have pretty much entirely remade Rust and now its getting better and better, even after selling millions
Is that accurate? CAN that be accurate? It sounds like a recipe for a bunch of people noodling around and never shipping anything.
I guess it's a matter of numbers. A small dedicated team could do this but a studio wanting to do something huge would have trouble operating like that. I don't know...
They're working on a walking simulator that's not really going anywhere (but like many similar projects, is flavour of the month and raking in the cash).
The Facepunch premise sums up what I believe is the most crucial element in a dream studio: how talent is being managed. You gotta trust the employees to do what they were hired for. Like cogs in a machine, they need to turn by themselves. Clueless and sometimes greedy management that is trying to control employees usually hinders workflow and disrupts morale. My dream studio would have all employees acknowledge their competence as well as incompetence, allowing others to fill in.
I believe in giving employees creative freedom but I also believe that someone needs to scrub the toilets. Nobody would choose to clean up shit, if everyone can do whatever they like.
Thing is, Facepunch isn't Valve. They don't have the experience at the top running the show, and as a result they don't have a 'dream team' of super-talented and experienced people that you can leave and trust to get on with and complete the job. You can tell this is the case, just be looking at the development history of Rust.
you want to do something meaningful? then get the hell out of games, you will work on something entertaining at best, not that entertainment is bad or anything. but if you want to do something meaningful study medicine, go fix ebola, cancer or set up a school somewhere in the 3rd world.
games can be meaningful for some individuals but for the vast majority it is purely entertaining like films, i wonder what game you would define to be objectively meaningful.
maybe i have grown too old to see games as something truly meaningful, i dunno, to me the project the boyfriend of my sister is working in, sounds a lot more meaningful than anything i could ever do on games. He is developing a tire that adapt or can be adapted to the ground it needs to roll on. to supply rural areas in africa without proper roads with a wheel for transportation, a tire that gets thin and wide in radius on hard ground, and wide and narrow in radius when the raintime started and the roads or nothing but mud. He is a 3d artist/designer too, not an engineer, to me this is something really meaningful.
i find meaning in bringing happiness to people. there's lots of world problems that started with people trying to Help Africa or whatever. if one kid plays a game that i worked on and it brightens his day then i'm good.
Their new game to do with the arcade machines seems to be coming on pretty well. They seem to be getting a lot done with the new remake of Rust as well.
I agree that it does seem like people would just go their and piss around, but I think when you are motivated to work on a project because you enjoy it, not because you just want to pay rent, you actually would end up wanting to work.
why? they've been around for like 9 years and making money for most of those (I mean, I gotta assume, as they still exist)
4-5 years - and up until the early access release of Rust surviving solely off (the substantial) Garry's Mod revenue. You only need to spend a little time in their community to see what it's like though - it feels incredibly immature and unprofessional in it's operation. Staff will regularly engage in slanging matches with community members on their forums among all manner of other weirdness - it's just really odd, I have a hard time describing them.
They have two products, Garry's Mod and Rust. Their next game is 'Before', which looks really similar to Rust?
Actually, there are several different things in development at the moment aside from these three. There's a weird little arcade simulator that a couple of folks are working on, there's a tennis game tentatively called Deuce, there's a space dungeon crawler, and a few other things. A lot of it is people throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks, and everybody who's working on any of those projects is also contributing to Rust in some fashion. For example, the lead on Before is making significant design contributions to Rust.
4-5 years - and up until the early access release of Rust surviving solely off (the substantial) Garry's Mod revenue. You only need to spend a little time in their community to see what it's like though - it feels incredibly immature and unprofessional in it's operation. Staff will regularly engage in slanging matches with community members on their forums among all manner of other weirdness - it's just really odd, I have a hard time describing them.
I can't really comment on this since I actively avoid most game-related forums (including the Rust/Facepunch forums), so I'm not going to try to argue it. I know I've heard similar things from other people, but I can't say much because I've never actually seen any of this stuff firsthand.
From what I've seen over the past eight months of working with them, Facepunch is more or less what the jobs page says it is. Everyone at the company who I've interacted with has been pleasant, helpful, and very interested in making good games.
I think one thing people should keep in mind when discussing companies with weird organizational structures is that they usually consist of people who do a good job of working independently in whatever their specialty is. This means that if you have a concept artist chucking finalized and approved stuff onto the concepts board that all the artists look at, some 3D guy is going to claim one of those concepts and start working on it because they want to do it and it clearly needs to get done. The same goes for programmers squashing bugs and implementing features, designers figuring out how to make the game fun, and concept artists coming up with stuff based on talks with the designers.
I can't with 100% certainty say that this is exactly how Valve operates, but it seems similar based on discussions I've had with employees/former employees. It's definitely how Facepunch operates, and it's not for everyone. Part of the reason traditional org structures are so common is that they work well for a lot of people, and there's nothing wrong with that.
If CoD would have been released during the Quake 3 Arena era, gamers would have said that it's a boring game with cheap gameplay mechanics and systems that attempt to flatter the ego of players to produce a fake feeling of fun and that only the most inexperienced players would fall for it.
We live in a time where the majority of gamers are uneducated, inexperienced and just have no idea what a good FPS feels like. They don't know what is fun about Quake 3. Not only the success of Call of Duty proves it, but it opened the door to many other companies to do the same or worse.
As a designer, this whole thing leaves my heart broken, because if I had to make an analogy of what it's like... it's like stealing the meal ($$$) of a kid by giving him in exchange candies (CoD) when he just doesn't grasp how bad it is for him, even if it makes him smile. It's disgusting.
Fortunately enough, we got game developers that are busting their ass off (Project NEX, Unreal Tournament, Reborn, Reflex, Deft Grinders, etc.) to bring back the FPS where it should be at and also in the attempt to re-educate gamers.
Lolol, dude, you're confusing your own personally gaming preferences with some sort of righteous ideals. I never understood why people get so upset that other people like a certain type of game that they don't.
You said that you are happy when you make games that can make people smile. That's fine. But there is another side of the coin that we should also consider and it's much dirtier. We shouldn't put our head in the sand and ignore it.
About the ''bankers and oil companies'' reference. A person might smile, because she got enough money to put oil in her car. Oil costs a lot of money. But the truth is, oil doesn't come from fossils, it's the second most abundant resource on Earth, we run in it literally and it will never go away. We are being played. The analogy is that whoever find that Call of Duty is a satisfying shooter is also being played by a ego-based type of fun that isn't actually fun. But money... money is good. For the record, I worked at Gameloft Montreal for over 4 years and have worked on 3 CoD clones. And left for good reasons.
This keeps getting better and better, further down the rabbit hole and now you're talking about oil conspiracy theories, a more ridiculously unrelated tangent I can't imagine for this thread.
I never said that. I said that I was against the game design methods that are there to produce an ego-based kind of satisfaction that is only effective on the most inexperienced individuals that cannot perceive the trickery. Unfortunately, that's the current majority of gamers. I'm not against them having fun. I'm against them being exploited by some game developers.
That's exactly what you're saying, you're just using some pseudo-psycology bullshit to justify taking cheap shots at anyone who doesn't share your opinions on what games should be. Yet again, an unrelated and unnecessary tangent.
Well this thread became interesting haha. In terms of dream job not sure. Would want one without crunch for sure. Fun projects and cool people around you make the experience enjoying. Albeit if I was to go somewhere, I think I would put how much am I going to grow or can impact as one of the major reasons.
I think the most interesting part is that player psychology is my field of expertise and that you guys are calling this pseudo-psychology and are laughing about it when the same rules apply to arts. Just saying...
Maybe you should learn to speak in layman's terms since this thread is way above our heads.
I think the most interesting part is that player psychology is my field of expertise and that you guys are calling this pseudo-psychology and are laughing about it when the same rules apply to arts. Just saying...
Are you talking about player usability heuristics?
Dream studio? Sounds kind of dumb in today's age of AAA hate but I'd love to be at ArenaNet. Love the painterly style of the Guild Wars games, they really are a work of art, even if the game falls short in some categories.
Dream job? Level designer on any competitive FPS. Huge respect to those guys, takes a ton of work.
I would love to work at a studio located nearby so I can stay within the same general area as my family and friends, but it seems like the large majority of games that come out of my area are shovelware titles or larger titles that may not be "exciting" to work on.
The great thing about game development is the fact that one can make meaningful projects on their own, despite the fact that it might take a while and will require a lot of learning. So I guess I'll probably be working outside of the games industry to support myself and do hobby projects in my free time.
dream studio: really this could just apply to anywhere that has a workforce im surrounded with that is passionate about what we're creating, and there is no feel of corporate hierarchy. a place where anyone can stand up at any time and speak their mind, (and be listened to), and be free to come up with constructive ideas or give creative input would be the most ideal place to be.
dream job: making art. nonstop art. always art. arting. all the time. and not doing LODs. ever.
Psychology in general, just saying that it's universal. It's the most valuable transferable skill. If psychology or how the world really works is of any interest to you, I'd recommend a book named ''The Kybalion'', because whoever wrote that book in 1908 was smart.
Hermeticism seems less about soft science and more a worldview/religion, just as much as atheism, Christianity, Islam, Agnosticism, is . . .
Its weird how this has gone from a discussion about dream jobs, to a discussion about player psychology
I really like the idea of building games with fairly realistic game play, something like Life is feudal, but more interactivity would be fun. I like games like Minecraft and TUG.
My dream job fluctuates yearly depending on the company. Despite that, Epic has always been on the top for me. 2 years ago they were in "hibernation" mode, with barely a peep. Then suddenly UE4 and Fortnite. The ability to shift into this new direction is extremely exciting. On top of working on amazing products, they consistently adapt and listen to the community. That kind of flexibility means they will continue to thrive in an engaging environment. They are partly the reason I moved to Raleigh.
Hahaha, I really wonder what the difference is between a person who thinks they're having fun because they're being manipulated by evil game developers to have those false feelings of joy, or someone who is legitimately having fun.
spoiler:
there is no difference
I did have some dream studio jobs when I was younger, but now I feel like as long as I come home feeling satisfied with my work, and get along with the people I work with, that is all that matters. There are a few studios I would definitely love to have a peek inside, but there's always that fear that they may not live up to my expectations. Ignorance is bliss, I guess?
My dream studio would be::
A place which creates projects that get your heart pumping. Tension filled and packed with lots of action!
Working with inspiring individuals who are humble and happy just doing what they're doin
A relaxed studio environment where project timelines are managed well, because there's enough crew (on hand) to accomplish the job set out from the beginning.
Has the culture & feel of a fun game studio vs. an I.T. department
Located close or in proximity to an large outdoor recreation hub.
Since I'd be spending so much time in the studio, i'd prefer some of my outdoor hobbies to be relatively close by. (Snowboarding, Surfing, White water Rafting/kayaking, scuba diving, mountain biking etc)
Has a Gym on-site
Healthy food alternatives in the kitchen
Gym on-site would be amazing. I hate spending an hour getting to and from the gym after work.
Also agree about the healthy food. I don't think game studios (or any company) should promote unhealthy eating habits.
I've wanted to work at valve since I was like 14. Though it's an unachievable dream for now because it would be impossible to get a visa. Frontier is a good studio to work for though so I can't complain.
Gym on-site would be amazing. I hate spending an hour getting to and from the gym after work.
Also agree about the healthy food. I don't think game studios (or any company) should promote unhealthy eating habits.
Yea, completely agree with this. Although I had to bike to the gym before work, it was on the way to the office. Being able to get to the gym a few times a week really helped my productvitiy. In addition, fruits and nuts were great to have on hand as an alternative (but not replacement) to snack food. While that was just an internship at a small commercial studio, I hope my next job has something similar!!
I think my dream job would be to work for Level-5. Not sure if their international branch just does localization. But their whimsical games have always been something I'd love to work on, and the company seems pretty cool too and really open to collaborations with other studios.
Though honestly my dream job would be to run my own small studio.
oh and for the record I kinda like COD, oil is just fine by me, bankers I don't really like on principal, although I don't know any personally, and someone missed their meds this morning.
that article only makes a valid point if you assume that Call of Duty AW isn't brilliantly playable without the drops and that a similar method of variable-ratio reinforcement isn't also at play for Quake 3 - which is a bit shaky because the subjective interpretation of a game's playablility can't be very well measured (unless by popular opinion, which happens to be pretty positive). The same psychological drive to invest more time is also at play in Quake 3, only instead of random drops you're asked do invest your time to get better (so you can win (that is the reward)), and even then if you're playing with similarly skilled people your chance of winning is more or less dependent on outside factors - the possibility of reward in that case is just as random as the supply drops in AW. Neither form of reward is more or less legitimate and deceitful than the other
Advanced Warfare's loot system is just as purposefully and integrally designed as the balance of Quake 3 and is just as much of a legitimate incentive to keep playing.
edit: lol. fake feeling of fun. gamer reeducation centre
I've been a substitute teacher for middle and high school kids for a little while now. My dream job is to be an Art teacher in public school. I just have to remember to bring ear plugs, those kids do get noisy.
Man, Sierra.... good old times... Space Quest and Maniac Mansion were the games that really made me want to create games myself!
And while I really like my current job, there's only very few places I'd quit it for, because I'd love to work on some really good RPGs and adventures. Telltale, Bioware and CD Project would really interest me!
Startup might be okay too, but my art skills deteriorated a bit. Maybe as programmer/tech-artist/simple-prop artist guy. something like that. probably doesn't pay enough anyway Sometimes the idea of getting out of AAA work appeals. Also I really love the while indie games movement and the creativity those people exhibit. very exciting!
. My dream job is to be an Art teacher in public school.
Not necessarily that, but I'd love to get into teaching something game/art-production related. Just looking around and seeing how unprepared some people are makes me want to do something about improving the situation!
The point is that it is satisfying to eliminate 3 guys with skills with a rocket launcher in Quake 3 when it takes no skills whatsoever to get 5 kills with super accurate guns in full fire and a chopper killstreaks that gives you free kills. And I would go as far as to say that whoever actually gets a feeling of statisfaction out of the CoD multiplayer probably has profound psychological issues that might need to be fixed. Same thing for whoever enjoy triple kills with a rocket launcher in Halo, there is nothing satisfying about free kills. When a majority of gamers actually like to play CoD multiplayer, it's sign of a very troubled society that is also easily manipulable.
I don't know what any of this has to do with the thread's topic. I suppose if you wanted to discuss this it'd be better to do so in another thread to avoid derailing it.
To argue your points, different people like different things. Somebody doesn't somehow become evil if they have fun playing a particular game (unless they're playing one of those intentionally offensive rape, racist, etc. games, then I'm guessing they're either just curious or they are pretty messed up.)
My most played game on Steam has always been Counter-Strike and I still play Global Offensive all the time (plus the new Operation just came out, and it's well worth the $6 it cost!) Despite preferring skill based gameplay, I still play Black Ops 2 at least once a month because it's fun to play a game that doesn't require me to do something that is mentally exhausting.
Anybody that takes Counter-Strike, Quake, or any competitive game even remotely serious knows that a single match can be very tiring due to the amount of communication you need to do with your team along with all of the information you need to process in a relatively short amount of time. Did you ever think there are people out there, that maybe don't want to commit so much time and energy into a game? Games like Call of Duty let those people have fun also. Plus, the whole RPG mechanic within the more recent CoD games gives people hundreds of hours of gameplay for their $60 which is pretty hard to find on consoles, the platforms where people play CoD the most.
And I would go as far as to say that whoever actually gets a feeling of statisfaction out of the CoD multiplayer probably has profound psychological issues that might need to be fixed.
Gym on-site would be amazing. I hate spending an hour getting to and from the gym after work.
Also agree about the healthy food. I don't think game studios (or any company) should promote unhealthy eating habits.
Im glad our place is right by a gym. Perfect for an early morning workout Also our company has a chef that makes meals etc and they try to keep it healthy and cater to a bunch of peoples diet restrictions.
Replies
Is that accurate? CAN that be accurate? It sounds like a recipe for a bunch of people noodling around and never shipping anything.
I guess it's a matter of numbers. A small dedicated team could do this but a studio wanting to do something huge would have trouble operating like that. I don't know...
Facepunch is a daft place in general though.
why? they've been around for like 9 years and making money for most of those (I mean, I gotta assume, as they still exist)
I agree that it does seem like people would just go their and piss around, but I think when you are motivated to work on a project because you enjoy it, not because you just want to pay rent, you actually would end up wanting to work.
4-5 years - and up until the early access release of Rust surviving solely off (the substantial) Garry's Mod revenue. You only need to spend a little time in their community to see what it's like though - it feels incredibly immature and unprofessional in it's operation. Staff will regularly engage in slanging matches with community members on their forums among all manner of other weirdness - it's just really odd, I have a hard time describing them.
I can't really comment on this since I actively avoid most game-related forums (including the Rust/Facepunch forums), so I'm not going to try to argue it. I know I've heard similar things from other people, but I can't say much because I've never actually seen any of this stuff firsthand.
From what I've seen over the past eight months of working with them, Facepunch is more or less what the jobs page says it is. Everyone at the company who I've interacted with has been pleasant, helpful, and very interested in making good games.
I think one thing people should keep in mind when discussing companies with weird organizational structures is that they usually consist of people who do a good job of working independently in whatever their specialty is. This means that if you have a concept artist chucking finalized and approved stuff onto the concepts board that all the artists look at, some 3D guy is going to claim one of those concepts and start working on it because they want to do it and it clearly needs to get done. The same goes for programmers squashing bugs and implementing features, designers figuring out how to make the game fun, and concept artists coming up with stuff based on talks with the designers.
I can't with 100% certainty say that this is exactly how Valve operates, but it seems similar based on discussions I've had with employees/former employees. It's definitely how Facepunch operates, and it's not for everyone. Part of the reason traditional org structures are so common is that they work well for a lot of people, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Honestly, I love the idea of having a lot of freedom, but it doesn't seem to be resulting in shipping polished games in a timely manner!
Edit: This is derailing a bit, hehe
Lolol, dude, you're confusing your own personally gaming preferences with some sort of righteous ideals. I never understood why people get so upset that other people like a certain type of game that they don't.
This keeps getting better and better, further down the rabbit hole and now you're talking about oil conspiracy theories, a more ridiculously unrelated tangent I can't imagine for this thread.
That's exactly what you're saying, you're just using some pseudo-psycology bullshit to justify taking cheap shots at anyone who doesn't share your opinions on what games should be. Yet again, an unrelated and unnecessary tangent.
Anyways, Not sure about Dream studio, but my dream project would be making an Adventure game out of Neil Gaiman's Sandman.
Working with a bunch of awesome people.
Oh the irony.
Yes, I got it. Bankers, oil industry conspiracies, popular games seek to incentivise playing (how outlandish!). It's all coming together now.
Dream job would be making an epic WW1 game in the vein of Red Orchestra
Maybe you should learn to speak in layman's terms since this thread is way above our heads.
Are you talking about player usability heuristics?
Dream job? Level designer on any competitive FPS. Huge respect to those guys, takes a ton of work.
The great thing about game development is the fact that one can make meaningful projects on their own, despite the fact that it might take a while and will require a lot of learning. So I guess I'll probably be working outside of the games industry to support myself and do hobby projects in my free time.
dream job: making art. nonstop art. always art. arting. all the time. and not doing LODs. ever.
I really like the idea of building games with fairly realistic game play, something like Life is feudal, but more interactivity would be fun. I like games like Minecraft and TUG.
spoiler:
I did have some dream studio jobs when I was younger, but now I feel like as long as I come home feeling satisfied with my work, and get along with the people I work with, that is all that matters. There are a few studios I would definitely love to have a peek inside, but there's always that fear that they may not live up to my expectations. Ignorance is bliss, I guess?
A place which creates projects that get your heart pumping. Tension filled and packed with lots of action!
Working with inspiring individuals who are humble and happy just doing what they're doin
A relaxed studio environment where project timelines are managed well, because there's enough crew (on hand) to accomplish the job set out from the beginning.
Has the culture & feel of a fun game studio vs. an I.T. department
Located close or in proximity to an large outdoor recreation hub.
Since I'd be spending so much time in the studio, i'd prefer some of my outdoor hobbies to be relatively close by. (Snowboarding, Surfing, White water Rafting/kayaking, scuba diving, mountain biking etc)
Has a Gym on-site
Healthy food alternatives in the kitchen
Also agree about the healthy food. I don't think game studios (or any company) should promote unhealthy eating habits.
I've wanted to work at valve since I was like 14. Though it's an unachievable dream for now because it would be impossible to get a visa. Frontier is a good studio to work for though so I can't complain.
Yea, completely agree with this. Although I had to bike to the gym before work, it was on the way to the office. Being able to get to the gym a few times a week really helped my productvitiy. In addition, fruits and nuts were great to have on hand as an alternative (but not replacement) to snack food. While that was just an internship at a small commercial studio, I hope my next job has something similar!!
Though honestly my dream job would be to run my own small studio.
@Jacque a sandman game would be amazing.
oh and for the record I kinda like COD, oil is just fine by me, bankers I don't really like on principal, although I don't know any personally, and someone missed their meds this morning.
Advanced Warfare's loot system is just as purposefully and integrally designed as the balance of Quake 3 and is just as much of a legitimate incentive to keep playing.
edit: lol. fake feeling of fun. gamer reeducation centre
I'm going to go back to my imaginary island and feel old now.
Sign me up.
And while I really like my current job, there's only very few places I'd quit it for, because I'd love to work on some really good RPGs and adventures. Telltale, Bioware and CD Project would really interest me!
Startup might be okay too, but my art skills deteriorated a bit. Maybe as programmer/tech-artist/simple-prop artist guy. something like that. probably doesn't pay enough anyway
Not necessarily that, but I'd love to get into teaching something game/art-production related. Just looking around and seeing how unprepared some people are makes me want to do something about improving the situation!
To argue your points, different people like different things. Somebody doesn't somehow become evil if they have fun playing a particular game (unless they're playing one of those intentionally offensive rape, racist, etc. games, then I'm guessing they're either just curious or they are pretty messed up.)
My most played game on Steam has always been Counter-Strike and I still play Global Offensive all the time (plus the new Operation just came out, and it's well worth the $6 it cost!) Despite preferring skill based gameplay, I still play Black Ops 2 at least once a month because it's fun to play a game that doesn't require me to do something that is mentally exhausting.
Anybody that takes Counter-Strike, Quake, or any competitive game even remotely serious knows that a single match can be very tiring due to the amount of communication you need to do with your team along with all of the information you need to process in a relatively short amount of time. Did you ever think there are people out there, that maybe don't want to commit so much time and energy into a game? Games like Call of Duty let those people have fun also. Plus, the whole RPG mechanic within the more recent CoD games gives people hundreds of hours of gameplay for their $60 which is pretty hard to find on consoles, the platforms where people play CoD the most.
Hell yeah!
Wow... :thumbdown:
Im glad our place is right by a gym. Perfect for an early morning workout