I'm not sure about the Nose's topology. It leaves off a lot of loops going up to her forehead, though you did end them right there. I'd do it differently myself, though,
Yep no that nose topology isn't okay.
You need to keep the topology more or less even.
Some good examples for stylised females (even though they're for animation, they actually dont have too much more in terms of polys than you have here). I'm sure there's better examples even, but I just can't remember for the life of me where I could find 'em. [vv]64302836[/vv]
Overall I also feel like you're wasting a fair amount of polys.
They're just good references for your facial topo and edge flow-- and your girl's face here is kinda stylized in a similar way, despite the different detail level. At a topology and edge flow level, she should be set up similarly, as while they're stylised, these girls have topo that animates and reacts very believably. I at no point wanted to infer "change your face shape to this!", it's just a better match for reference to use than the only other good ref I know of, which is for gruff males in their 30s.
I'd have a look at cutting some poly's that don't contribute to the silhouette, theres a fair amount that could be terminated or removed entirely that go down her back, and around her midsection and there still wouldn't be any noticeable faceting. Same with the amount of edges on the capsule in her jetpack, it's probably not necessary to have it THAT round. Also a lot of polys around the circumference of her legs and heaps around her ankles. Not sure you need quite that many quads on her belts, either.
Just because you can have more polys/tris doesn't necessarily mean you should get slack with optimization! I don't mean to be rude or blunt, I only want to see this piece work out to be the best it can be. Sorry if I've come across that way.
Edit: And mostly a density issue, but terminating the extra edges where you did is asking for deformation issues, too.
Hey JadeEyePanda! Glad to see you decided to learn topology. It can be a pain at the begining, but you'll get the hang of it sooner than you think!
I think BagelHero gave you some pretty good advices already.
Regarding your density issue, I'd sum it up like this....
When you do a retopology, you have to keep 2 things in mind:
1- Is this polygon helping you define the silouhette?
2- Will this polygon improve the deformation?
If you answer "no" to those 2 questions, chances are this polygon isn't needed. I you keep asking yourself these questions, you'll quickly realize that you probably don't need that much polygon in a lot of cases (the belt for example).
Fidgeting around with dDo in Quixel Suite 1.6. More care needed, and need to look at references as well for gun wear and tear, but I have a feeling this is going to be a clean looking weapon.
Usually that occurs when two cages overlap, or the cage overlaps itself. One method would be to explode the model or to only bake section that are far apart so the cages dont overlap
seems a bit too painted on. I don't think eyeliner typically goes the whole way around the eye, but instead just the outer edges. Look up makeup tutorials on youtube and pintrest - especially "pin-up" style make-up tutorials.
Makeup usually doesn't get that much coverage. You should be able to feel that it is a soft powder brushed over the skin. Not actually covering all of it.
Usually women do not put a black line all over the inner eyelid.
The black line on the top eyelid should be defining the eyelashe line and not covering the whole eyelid. It should be sightly blended with the other color.
The pink on the cheeks is waaay to intense. Nobody use that much except if you want to look like a clown
By the way, the face still looks a bit unpolished to me.
I know how annoying it can be to always go back to it, but I feel like it could still be improved.
Look up make up tutorials, try to understand how the different makeups are applied and what colors are often worn together-- A lot of your make up is blurry where it would be left un-blended by someone who's good at applying makeup. Additionally, look up eyeliner tutorials for common shapes and styles worn by girls going for a vintage look, because this kinda looks like she let a five year old girl apply it. I assume, looking at this, that you do not have any experience in real life makeup wearing-- it's basically a science and you should really research it.
Blush is usually brushed in more, looking like it's applied in a soft, airbrush manner, not dappled on.
Colors are too... full saturation. Look up common pin-up colors.
tl;dr
Look up make up tutorials and serious "how to get a vintage look" articles because there's more to it than you seem to think.
Helloooo there again,
cool render!
Just little nick picking again
I just checked and your character is very small at the moment with a not very impressive 6 head and a half
average and realistic proportion is usually around 7 and a half.
For a character like jinx with very long and thin legs, I don't find it very fitting.
Your head looks pretty big to me at the moment so scaling it down a tad might help you out and I think proportion could be adjusted a bit.
I wish I could make you a kickass paint over (but I'm really bad at it) for the head because I still think it looks unpolished/unfinished.
some planes of the face are missing especially. The very bony/definined nose mixed up with the very present nasolabial fold makes her look old to me while jinx have a very young face.
Would you hold it against me if I aimed for a middle-aged woman look? Because from the Pin-up paintings I've been referencing, they look like they were in their mid-20s at least, or at least what WE perceive as mid-20s.
Well, middle-aged is not 20s-30s. 40+ is middle aged.
If you want her to look like Jinx then I think younger is the way to go. Twenty-something is probably the sweet spot.
I think you still need to do some proportion tweaking aside from the head to make her read as Jinx and to have that League style exaggeration. Most of the females have pretty long legs and Jinx is actually pretty thin. Tits's Jinx is good reference for the style I think you're going for, League style design/proportions with a more realistic texture treatment?
ravenslayer did some kind of 3dsmax script for exactly that i think...
looked it up on his fb account it seemed kinda near to finish but he did not uplaod
it... maybe he will if you ask him...
Brian, whats your current hair workflow, or what were you planning on doing? What are you generating your hair in, etc. Normally I just bake the high poly hair to an alpha card in maya. Im confused where your difficulty is currently.
1) Paint black and white image of hair strans in Photoshop. Keep hair clumps in separate layers and groups.
2) Use nDo2 on hair alpha
>> Not the best Normals in the world.
I was hoping there'd be a not-3D-pacakge way to approach texturing these effectively, minus any regular baking.
i wanted to say that even with the script from ravenslayer you would still
have to make fibers and bake them on to planes in 3d. As for a full 2d approach
i think yours is the best actually...
ravenslayer did some kind of 3dsmax script for exactly that i think...
looked it up on his fb account it seemed kinda near to finish but he did not uplaod
it... maybe he will if you ask him...
I usually paint a hair strand in grayscale.
making sure that you can really read it well etc.
Then I bring it into knald (or crazy bump or whatever)
and generate multiple normal with different setting.
Some where the normal gets the biggers shapes (strands etc) some where
it get the smaller details (individual hair
after that I combine them in photoshop.
Best result I usually get is from using the normal with the bigger details as a base then the one with the smallest details on top. Using too much of the one with the smalls details often makes the hair look like hay in my opinion.
Hopes it can help, dunno if it makes any sens when explained in text just like that.
Im curious as to the settings youre using for nDo and the type of brush you are using to paint your strands. if you play with the bevel and other settings in NDo you may get something more to your liking.
I usually paint a hair strand in grayscale.
making sure that you can really read it well etc.
Then I bring it into knald (or crazy bump or whatever)
and generate multiple normal with different setting.
Some where the normal gets the biggers shapes (strands etc) some where
it get the smaller details (individual hair
after that I combine them in photoshop.
Best result I usually get is from using the normal with the bigger details as a base then the one with the smallest details on top. Using too much of the one with the smalls details often makes the hair look like hay in my opinion.
Hopes it can help, dunno if it makes any sens when explained in text just like that.
Sounds somewhat brute force (well, at least how I describe it to myself, that merging multiple normals together.).
When you say greyscale, Marie, do you mean purely white strands, black BG, OR various value levels of grey between strands and strand groups?
@Charles: I run a whole alpha map (just black and white) through, and adjust all the settings so I get the thinnest but deepest normals I can per strand. But there doesn't seem to be a clear way of getting a layered feel (as it would be in real life if hair was planed out that way) with the normals, so strands that are clumping up at a certain point just read as one mass in the Normal map.
Prelimenary test looks aren't quite where I want them to be. Can't quite tell if it's because I'm not layering these meshes correctly, or if it's something in the texture.
Here's what I have now. Anyone have any specific critiques about what's going on or what to fix on the meshes or textures?
I think the strands need to be much thicker, more wiry for readability. Your strokes on the texture flats look super alias-y and cross over each other in a kinda weird way, so be bolder with that.
Your card placement looks headed in the right direction, though.
Is the strand thickness causing the hazy Alpha texture?
btw, to everyone else, I'm going to get to the head later! I'm serious, just want to make sure the hair is in first since I can just group and scale that mostly.
Trying to use a fibermesh and bake to texture method.
Does anyone know how to change the Fibermesh subtool color WHILE you're making the fibermesh or after it becomes a subtool? I try doing the usualy polypaint FILL action but it doesn't seem to do anything.
Hey Jade! Go to your Fibermesh subtool palette, then in "modifiers".
Then you'll be able to select a color for the base and the tip of your fibers.
If you don't find it, tell me, i'll make a screenshot for you. Cheers!
Replies
Draft of the low poly model of the main character body. Minus a couple odds and ends that I am either cloning or extracting from existing polys.
Is there appropriate and enough polys at the joints for animation?
Does the face topology look good?
Thank you for your time!
[SKETCHFAB]355a18514f564206b8685df8a0f05cca[/SKETCHFAB]
You need to keep the topology more or less even.
Some good examples for stylised females (even though they're for animation, they actually dont have too much more in terms of polys than you have here). I'm sure there's better examples even, but I just can't remember for the life of me where I could find 'em.
[vv]64302836[/vv]
Overall I also feel like you're wasting a fair amount of polys.
Adding additional low poly elements, we're hoving at above 60k tris.
Will fix the nose topo issue. It's just a density issue right?
I'd have a look at cutting some poly's that don't contribute to the silhouette, theres a fair amount that could be terminated or removed entirely that go down her back, and around her midsection and there still wouldn't be any noticeable faceting. Same with the amount of edges on the capsule in her jetpack, it's probably not necessary to have it THAT round. Also a lot of polys around the circumference of her legs and heaps around her ankles. Not sure you need quite that many quads on her belts, either.
Just because you can have more polys/tris doesn't necessarily mean you should get slack with optimization! I don't mean to be rude or blunt, I only want to see this piece work out to be the best it can be. Sorry if I've come across that way.
Edit: And mostly a density issue, but terminating the extra edges where you did is asking for deformation issues, too.
I think BagelHero gave you some pretty good advices already.
Regarding your density issue, I'd sum it up like this....
When you do a retopology, you have to keep 2 things in mind:
1- Is this polygon helping you define the silouhette?
2- Will this polygon improve the deformation?
If you answer "no" to those 2 questions, chances are this polygon isn't needed. I you keep asking yourself these questions, you'll quickly realize that you probably don't need that much polygon in a lot of cases (the belt for example).
Fidgeting around with dDo in Quixel Suite 1.6. More care needed, and need to look at references as well for gun wear and tear, but I have a feeling this is going to be a clean looking weapon.
Thank you for your time!
Duping the mesh and just re-UV unwrapping it seemed to the trick. Wish I knew what happened to the original mesh
New issue!
Anyone remember how to deal with this normal error in Toolbag?
Then again, isn't make-up a sort of face paint?
Usually women do not put a black line all over the inner eyelid.
The black line on the top eyelid should be defining the eyelashe line and not covering the whole eyelid. It should be sightly blended with the other color.
The pink on the cheeks is waaay to intense. Nobody use that much except if you want to look like a clown
By the way, the face still looks a bit unpolished to me.
I know how annoying it can be to always go back to it, but I feel like it could still be improved.
Blush is usually brushed in more, looking like it's applied in a soft, airbrush manner, not dappled on.
Colors are too... full saturation. Look up common pin-up colors.
tl;dr
Look up make up tutorials and serious "how to get a vintage look" articles because there's more to it than you seem to think.
Still looking for a solution to this normal / backface issue.
cool render!
Just little nick picking again
I just checked and your character is very small at the moment with a not very impressive 6 head and a half
average and realistic proportion is usually around 7 and a half.
For a character like jinx with very long and thin legs, I don't find it very fitting.
Your head looks pretty big to me at the moment so scaling it down a tad might help you out and I think proportion could be adjusted a bit.
I wish I could make you a kickass paint over (but I'm really bad at it) for the head because I still think it looks unpolished/unfinished.
some planes of the face are missing especially. The very bony/definined nose mixed up with the very present nasolabial fold makes her look old to me while jinx have a very young face.
Hope it can help, nonetheless great work so far
You're right about the head. Fortunately, it's a separate mesh, so it wouldn't be a bother to just scale whatever I resculpt.
I'll get to the head by the end! My flow just start on texturing the body, getting all the wear and tear manually painted in.
Fixing that would also make the hands look more in proportion cuz they're tiny right now.
And personally, I would lose all the pores on the face, its bordering on the uncanny valley.
Because I was aiming originally for a mid 20's look, perhaps more appearing an early 30s, late 20s.
If you want her to look like Jinx then I think younger is the way to go. Twenty-something is probably the sweet spot.
I think you still need to do some proportion tweaking aside from the head to make her read as Jinx and to have that League style exaggeration. Most of the females have pretty long legs and Jinx is actually pretty thin. Tits's Jinx is good reference for the style I think you're going for, League style design/proportions with a more realistic texture treatment?
Proportions WILL be fixed. Hopefully, just in the Low-Poly scaling, etc.
looked it up on his fb account it seemed kinda near to finish but he did not uplaod
it... maybe he will if you ask him...
Brute force way seems to be bake out Normal maps in layers from layers of alphas through nDo?
1) Paint black and white image of hair strans in Photoshop. Keep hair clumps in separate layers and groups.
2) Use nDo2 on hair alpha
>> Not the best Normals in the world.
I was hoping there'd be a not-3D-pacakge way to approach texturing these effectively, minus any regular baking.
the 3d approach is the best looking...
I'm losing whatever you're saying in translation. Could you extrapolate that, skodone?
i wanted to say that even with the script from ravenslayer you would still
have to make fibers and bake them on to planes in 3d. As for a full 2d approach
i think yours is the best actually...
the one i was suggesting earlier
making sure that you can really read it well etc.
Then I bring it into knald (or crazy bump or whatever)
and generate multiple normal with different setting.
Some where the normal gets the biggers shapes (strands etc) some where
it get the smaller details (individual hair
after that I combine them in photoshop.
Best result I usually get is from using the normal with the bigger details as a base then the one with the smallest details on top. Using too much of the one with the smalls details often makes the hair look like hay in my opinion.
Hopes it can help, dunno if it makes any sens when explained in text just like that.
EDIT: Essentially what Marie said
Sounds somewhat brute force (well, at least how I describe it to myself, that merging multiple normals together.).
When you say greyscale, Marie, do you mean purely white strands, black BG, OR various value levels of grey between strands and strand groups?
@Charles: I run a whole alpha map (just black and white) through, and adjust all the settings so I get the thinnest but deepest normals I can per strand. But there doesn't seem to be a clear way of getting a layered feel (as it would be in real life if hair was planed out that way) with the normals, so strands that are clumping up at a certain point just read as one mass in the Normal map.
Right now, slowly blocking in the hair planes. I want to achieve the quality of this: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2189436&postcount=10
Prelimenary test looks aren't quite where I want them to be. Can't quite tell if it's because I'm not layering these meshes correctly, or if it's something in the texture.
Here's what I have now. Anyone have any specific critiques about what's going on or what to fix on the meshes or textures?
Your card placement looks headed in the right direction, though.
btw, to everyone else, I'm going to get to the head later! I'm serious, just want to make sure the hair is in first since I can just group and scale that mostly.
So I WANT individual strands to show up in the albedo, that's for sure.
But I can't bake out individual stranded normals if I source it from an albedo that's all compressed as one image, at least through nDo.
Am I supposed to separate the albedo hair strands into separate layer groups, so I can bake the layers separately?
Does anyone know how to change the Fibermesh subtool color WHILE you're making the fibermesh or after it becomes a subtool? I try doing the usualy polypaint FILL action but it doesn't seem to do anything.
Then you'll be able to select a color for the base and the tip of your fibers.
If you don't find it, tell me, i'll make a screenshot for you. Cheers!
I'll revisit the method for the other hair clumps.
Jean, how would you bake out a normal from the fibermesh texture?