Journey into Zbrush

vavavoom

***latest progress***



Hi, i realized if i was ever to improve the look of my models, i would have to learn new skills... only using 3dsMax and Photoshop aren't going to cut it anymore i guess...

I really want to make a character model that fits the style of current gen game models like those of 'God of War' or similar for example.

here's the low poly base i'm working from. It's a remodel of a previous work i did.



and my jump into zbrush..

It seems like an impossible task knowing where to begin? i've watched youtube tutorials and searched out sites offering tips and tutorials.

tutorials on Dynamesh and other approaches....but i really don't know which is the best approach...

I'm gonna push on experimenting, but its tough not knowing which direction to head in.

Any feedback, advice greatly appreciated~~

BagelHero

Working off a base mesh, I personally wouldn't dynamesh unless I was doing a full body, working off a sphere or REALLY lacking quads in an area that needs high detail. I find dynamesh is kind of a destructive workflow; good for blocking out if you don't model a basemesh, and handy if you have areas with stretched quads, but all in all it's simpler to start off keeping to just subdivs.

In any case, don't worry too much. Just take the clay build up tool or the standard tool and have at it.

Personally, I usually start by just sculpting in bulk forms I'm missing; in this particular case I'd probably start with the eye area. Giving the forms and folds of the lids some more base shape and definition, and maybe working on the transition around the bridge of the nose/lower eyelid area.
I'd move on to the lips from there, and the chin, and define them much more; as much as I could without subdividing.
Lastly, I'd define the internal structure of the ears, then subdivide.

You have a lot of the shape blocked out for you already, which is always nice, so all you need to do is add detail, really.

Really, the zBrush workflow when you bring in a basemesh is as simple as
- Define as much as you can on the base level, Subdiv.
- Add as much detail and definition as you can on that level, Subdiv.
- Add more detail and final shape definition. Subdiv (rinse and repeat until you're happy with how it looks).
- Finally, add surface details (on layers, so you can increase or decrease the effect) if needed (pores, bumps, wrinkles, scars, damage, seams, microfolds).

It's very free form, and very much about what works for you, really, so it's easy to get lost if you're not used to it. Just keep at it. Your modeling seems very good already, so relax and have fun adding extra organic details that might be harder to define when modelling.

EDIT: It probably goes without saying, but if you're working off a base mesh you intend to bake back onto, don't ADD too much volume to the mesh, or alter base shapes when sculpting. Though, if you intend to retopo, go crazy.

Leinad

Everyone has their own approach when it comes down to creating characters. I like to not worry about topology till I have majority of my forms sculpted and finalized.

Personally, I have found it to be most comfortable staying in dynamesh for 80% of the process. There are certain areas like the eyelids and mouth where I'll do a quick ZRemesher to get workable topology for posing and reshaping. Sometimes I'll throw it into Maya and get a more precise re-topology if necessary.

Overall, I think worrying about proper edge flow too early on can distract from the sculpting process. It's like in traditional art where many beginner/intermediate level artists tend to overly concentrate in the center of a piece of paper when drawing and forget about the outer edges. I find that having strict topology tends to create a similiar psychological framing of staying within the boundary, in this case the boundary is referring to the preexisting topology.

PyrZern

Regarding Dynamesh. I only use it before I got myself a nice topology(bashmesh or zremesher). After that, no more dynamesh.

vavavoom

Thanks guys~

i had a little experiment into dynamesh... it really messed up the topolog. ZRemesher wasn't very helpful either.

So, i guess moving through the sub divisions and lots of tweaking is the way to go?

I'm worried about messing up the smooth feel to larger surface areas, but i really need to define some edges..

BagelHero

Don't worry about messing up the smooth feel; go back a few subdivs and start there. Make it look kinda pixel-y, that's okay. If you go back, work until it starts looking pixelated, THEN subdivide, it smooths it out. If you start at a high subdiv, it will be muddy and blobby. Additionally; shift is mapped as the smooth brush by default. Use that a lot; it works better on lower subdivs.

And Dynamesh is specifically for messing up the topology (the bonus being that it evens out all the quads in the process). It's better for freeform sculpting on something you'll retopologise. zRemesher is for creating a base low poly for something you've free-form sculpted already, which is practical for many personal workflow reasons.

Don't worry about messing stuff up at this stage. Just play with the brushes.

Stirls

Higher subdivisions and a higher dynamesh level will mean you'll get less of that sorta artifacting. Don't be afraid to be a bit destructive. If you're worried about that and not being able to go back in a save, go to your file tab and hit "undo history". This means when you save, the history saves, too!

Just look at defining some of the basic stuff right now (cheekbones, brow ridge, skeletal forms) in a lower subdiv. Then go on to lips, nose, and eyes at a higher subdivision later on. For small details and definition, look at the dam_standard brush. It's great for creating little crevices in the mesh.

As BagelHero said, just play with the brushes. Each one has its ups and downs. Some go better with a mouse, some you might find better when working on a tablet. For example, I used to hate claytubes until I got a tablet, and now it's practically the only one I use for defining forms!

vavavoom

Nose job... and sneaky update...

vavavoom

Had a long bash at the ears. If anyone has any crits or advice if i need to push them further, that would be really nice

In the meantime, next up is getting some eyes in there, i've been staring at that spooky dead-eyed looking head for too long...

vavavoom

Can anyone help me? i'm going crazy.

so, i followed every single tutorial i could find on adding an eye in Zbrush...

generally they all follow the same path, create a zsphere (make it polymesh3D),
then append it to the head tool. sounds easy enough...

but for some reason, once i have appended, i cannot see both tools at the same time.
i can only switch to viewing 1 at a time. i tried all the different options in the subtools boxes (the eye icon, which i guess is visibility etc..on/off?)

no joy, and it's driving me crazy. can't find any answers...

would greatly appreciated any pointers~~

BagelHero

You have the solo button on.
Go to the transform menu at the top > click the solo button (should be orange right now, you want it to be grey). Or, press the orange button that's half obscured at the bottom of the toolbar to the right, under the PolyF button.

vavavoom

i'll give it a shot first thing~! thanks so much for your help, really, really appreciate it. hopefully i can move forward again now

The help on this forum never ceases to amaze me... thanks, again.

vavavoom

Thanks for the advice BagelHero. I was finally able to get some eyes in place.

I'm hoping i got a pretty good size and fit, they are just placeholders for now, but if the size/positioning is good then i will look to make the final detailed eyes the same.

i am going for a slightly influenced JRPG style, ever so slightly enlarged and stylized eyes, etc.. and i need to fix up the sockets and eyelids soon coz they lost a lot of the form from the original 3dmax low poly tri mesh when i retopo'd it into quads ready for Zbrush.

any crits on the eyes in terms of positioning, size, anything at all would be great~~

vavavoom

I wonder if it's heading in the right direction? still can't decide if the eyes are too big. Even though i am going for slightly stylized look, it's tough to get it just right...

BagelHero

I'd say try the dam-standard brush for the fold of the eye. right now the indent is pretty thick.
For a stylised piece, the eyes seem fine to me. Keep on truckin'.

Glad I could help, btw. Zbrush has a number of weird niggly bits that are easy to lose track of when you're just beginning with it.

FourtyNights

I would say that you have such a great basemesh to start working with, but you're ending up to troubles when subdiving it to that high before even sculpting anything.

My advice is that, go back to the lowest sub-d and try to shape every possible key facial features you can ge out of it before subdiving to another level. Just try to squeeze everything out of every subdivison level before subdividing. So, I'd recommend to start from the base again. You'll be surprised how much it rewards you to do it that way.

Don't be scared even though you can't get ears shaped in the first level of subdivision. Just shape it to look like an ear with all the key elements you can do, even with minimal amount of polygons to use. It looks horrible at first, but that's the point of shaping your mesh. Mentioning this just for example.

EDIT: Also, doing it by sub-d by sub-d, you have a lot better control on smoothing your sculpt as well.

vavavoom

Thanks~:)

My method so far has been jumping up and down between the sub D levels, like this:

1. is for moving and shaping larger forms of the anatomy with move tool, cheeks, jawline, chin, nose bridge, etc (i haven't had too much to do yet on this coz the original base mesh covered it pretty well)

2. some slightly smaller anatomical area movements, again using move tool and some other sculpting if necessary.

3/4. build up, cut, start to refine the finer anatomical details, cut, basically rough out the finer details.

5. smooth out, refine, polish, basically try and get the fine details looking as nice as possible.

with things like jaw line, cheeks, general skull shape, (large smooth areas), i would be using low level subD, finer details use higher level subD... that's kinda been my basic approach.

I kinda thought i'd got the most i could possibly get for large forms out of the lowest SubD, any pointers on specific areas?

vavavoom

truckin' on..

vavavoom

am thinking to start sculpting on some hair, eyebrows, etc..

it's difficult to tell if it's looking right without.

I'm not sure the best approach, but i think i'm gonna sculpt them as separate objects.. i guess that will give me more control and easier to change later?

any paint overs or crits would be great~~



here's some reference for the kind of direction and style i'm hoping to aim for~

vavavoom

slowly steering it in the right direction i hope...

Tits

good improvement!
Looking forward to see some progress on the character!

vavavoom

Thanks~

i reckon it's starting to take better shape now.

i've been experimenting with brushes to sculpt the hair with. i tried out the rake brush, but i'm wondering if theres some plugin brush out there that's better...

also, i'm struggling how to blend the hair border where it meets the skin.
any pointers much appreciated~~:)

vavavoom

dug it back out during christmas vacation....

studied a whole bundle of references, styles, etc. spent more time trying to get comfortable with zbrush. kept pushing on with tons of trial and error.

added a hair paintover/image thing to try and visualize what it'll hopefully kinda look like when i try to tackle the hair again.

ears and back of head, i'm still messing around to see what size works best, how it reads at different angles and distances.

crits greatly wanted to push this to a finished sculpt.