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Marmoset Toolbag 2 | R&D

We'll use this thread to post previews of shaders, features and other cool things that are currently in development.

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  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Here's something i've been working on, an in-house curve editor!

    SUj5dW0.jpg
    JaRuKBR.jpg
    X7qxhE1.jpg
  • MeintevdS
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    MeintevdS keyframe
    Looks sexy almighty_gir! Sometimes I wish I was clever enough to write my own stuff.
  • EarthQuake
    colorcheck01.jpg

    I made a color checker texture thingie. Is this something you guys would like to see as like a reference object that you could load from the menu?
  • allaze-eroler
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    allaze-eroler polycounter lvl 11
    great idea ! and it will be usefull for complex multi-meshes system.

    ....

    wait, it was for gamma correction ? :o
  • EarthQuake
    colorchecker02.jpg
    Marmoset Albedo Color Checker

    Here are the textures for the color checker object, a simple plane mesh to apply it to and a material that you can load into tb2 (import material from the material preset dropdown to load it):

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/499159/colorchecker.zip

    You may need to re-scale the object as we do not have the per-object scale feature in TB2.

    This should be easy to implement in 3rd party tools or engines too by simply loading the plane and textures. Just make sure to set the reflectivity to very low or zero and/or glossiness/roughness to very rough.

    So what is this?
    Its a color checker object, based on standard color checkers generally used in photography. The values are based off of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ColorChecker

    A color checker is useful for a couple things:
    1. If you're taking photographic reference, you should use a color picker to make it easy to set the correct white balance.
    2. A color checker calibrated to the same industry standard values should make it easier to check if your albedo content is the wrong color, too bright, too dark, etc.

    I'm also curious to see how useful you guys find this to be and if there are any other uses to this other than what I've mentioned above.

    Oh and, credit where credit is due, this was Joeri Vromman's idea.
  • EarthQuake
    Playing around with the new curves feature. Color grading done using curves, not any of the other post effects, the lighting is the same for each shot as well.
    curves04.jpg
  • Kosai106
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    Kosai106 polycounter lvl 13
  • disanski
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    disanski polycounter lvl 13
    damn that is nice. Awesome work guys
  • Teessider
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    Teessider polycounter lvl 11
    seriously guys the colour checker and the curves are awesome! :D
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Hdjc7Xj.png

    Area lights are on my "to do" list! making some progress at least =]
  • MeintevdS
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    MeintevdS keyframe
    Wow I just facepalmed myself, I did not realize almighty_gir was an engineer on this tool..

    Looking good guys, tool keeps getting more awesome!
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    MeintevdS wrote: »
    Wow I just facepalmed myself, I did not realize almighty_gir was an engineer on this tool..

    Looking good guys, tool keeps getting more awesome!

    yeah i have to keep double checking myself :P
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    more new stuffs!!!

    ckLAUVD.png
  • EarthQuake
    More chromatic aberrations weeee!

    Top three shots show how per channel adjustments can be used to fine tune the CA effect to your liking, essentially the same functionality as the lens correct filter in PS. Bottom shot shows how strength value can be pulled back for a subtle, reasonable, effect.

    cabramph01.jpg
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Update on area light progress! Jeff has been working really hard to clean up my shoddy shoddy workmanship!

    QpHCwXU.png
    N0h93lF.png
    qXjkQmK.png
  • stilobique
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    stilobique polycounter lvl 12
    Very great new feature. Date for the next release ?
  • EarthQuake
    stilobique wrote: »
    Very great new feature. Date for the next release ?

    When it's ready. :poly124:
  • tungerz
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    tungerz polygon
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    When it's ready. :poly124:
    To da point (
  • EarthQuake
  • radiancef0rge
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    radiancef0rge ngon master
  • EarthQuake
    Playing around with some new features currently in dev for 206

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/499159/fisheyeflare.mp4
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    Playing around with some new features currently in dev for 206

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/499159/fisheyeflare.mp4

    Wat! Is that like a camera attached to an object? Whatever it is, NEAT. :D
  • EarthQuake
    Wat! Is that like a camera attached to an object? Whatever it is, NEAT. :D

    Other way around, but yeah, mesh attached to a camera. This isn't a new feature or anything though, you can do it by dragging any mesh (or light or other object) on top of the camera object to parent it.
  • EarthQuake
    Oh Hai.

    Lee is working on an advanced variant of the metalness input type. This won't replace the current metalness input, but will be an additional option as most people probably won't need the extra features.

    The big differences is we've added a specular slot which controls the reflectivity for non-metals (which is fixed to 4% linear in the standard metalness input). This should be useful if you are representing a material that has a reflectance of less than 4% (like skin) or more than 4% (like gemstones), this will give you more control over non-metals.

    You can now set a couple things:
    1. The baseline reflectivity (defaults to 0.04), the slider caps there but you can type in higher values manually
    2. A texture input that multiplies on the base value, handy if you have multiple non-metal material types with different reflectance values

    This should make it easier to use Toolbag 2 to preview art content going into game engines that use the PBR metalness workflow but also have a secondary specular input for insulators, like UE4 (more here, see the specular section: https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Rendering/Materials/PhysicallyBased/index.html).

    Default 0.04 value
    advancedmetal01.jpg

    Value set to 0.02
    advancedmetal02.jpg

    Value set to 0.08 with texture map controlling the 0-0.08 range
    advancedmetal03.jpg

    I want to stress again that this is not really necessary for most assets, but we are curious to know, especially from people that use engines with PBR shaders and secondary specular inputs, how helpful this feature would be and if there is anything else you would like to see.

    PS: Yes, that is a per-texture visibility checkbox, coming to a Toolbag near you in 2.07.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    You might want to allow us to choose between different mappings for this input that we can use for texture authoring. LaGarde and Rousier's paper on the Frostbite engine shows that they chose this mapping for their reflectance texture: f0 = 0.16 * reflectance * reflectance, which means that f0=0.04 if reflectance is 0.5 and f0=0.16 if reflectance is 1.0.

    Citation, page 13

    This works well because it lets you go all the way up to 0.16, which important for portraying semiconductors. I'm not sure how UE4 does it, but I think it's just a linear mapping: f0=.08*specular, which is not really as good as it doesn't let you accurately portray semiconductors. Anyway, could be good to give us a choice between the two. Cheers.
  • EarthQuake
    You might want to allow us to choose between different mappings for this input that we can use for texture authoring. LaGarde and Rousier's paper on the Frostbite engine shows that they chose this mapping for their reflectance texture: f0 = 0.16 * reflectance * reflectance, which means that f0=0.04 if reflectance is 0.5 and f0=0.16 if reflectance is 1.0.

    Citation, page 13

    This works well because it lets you go all the way up to 0.16, which important for portraying semiconductors. I'm not sure how UE4 does it, but I think it's just a linear mapping: f0=.08*specular, which is not really as good as it doesn't let you accurately portray semiconductors. Anyway, could be good to give us a choice between the two. Cheers.

    Thanks for the input, we would like to support what Frostbite is doing, so we may look into adding some extra functionality for the mapping as well.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    I could probably add that functionality in the form of a "curve" input value or something, where it adjusts the reflectance by pow(specular, curve);

    either that, or just keep it simple and have a "pow2 curve" checkbox which would match frostbyte exactly.

    the problem we have though, is that we're only aware that frostbyte does this. we know UE4 doesn't do it, and our target has to be engines that are publicly available to use... purely from the point of view that "we can't support it if we don't know about it".

    so yeah, while i'm happy to add the functionality as an option here, i'm cautious about trying to make the core functionality match a proprietary engine.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    It's not the end of the world if you don't support it imo. I just think it's a better approach to be able to get up to that .16 base reflectivity for gems. I'm pretty sure that the EA guys have people writing shaders for Marmoset to match their engine anyway, so if you don't want to do it's not too big of a loss.
  • EarthQuake
    It should be doable, I think what Lee was saying was more that he thought it should be an optional feature, which I agree with. We'll take a look at it.

    I am curious to know more about EA writing shaders for Toolbag though, if you can give me more information about this or get me in touch with whoever is writing the shaders that would be cool, we may be able to provide additional support.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Lagarde was talking about it somewhere in the paper... let me take a look and see if I can find it again.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    Yeah, on page 93 it says "We have developed support for our base material model inside external tools used by the game teams like Mari, Substance, and Marmoset to ease the transition." But it looks like there's not any further info than that. I can't find a public email address for him, but you might try his Twitter or LinkedIn accounts and see if you can get anything started.

    http://seblagarde.wordpress.com/about/

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/s%C3%A9bastien-lagarde/13/34a/647

    https://twitter.com/SebLagarde

    I'm just a college student, so I don't think I can help you out much more than that if you want to get in contact with him, but it couldn't hurt to ask him, I guess.
  • EarthQuake
    Ok sweet, thats really cool to see Lagarde talking about us, thanks for the info.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    QC2ydfL.png

    making some progress on our volumetric fog. very very early right now, but fully transformable, with variable density, colour, and density types (linear/exponential/constant).
  • Swizzle
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    Swizzle polycounter lvl 15
    Is the volume fog only available with box-shaped bounding boxes, or will there be other shapes like spheres as well?

    Is it going to cast shadows and/or become illuminated by scene lights?
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Swizzle wrote: »
    Is the volume fog only available with box-shaped bounding boxes, or will there be other shapes like spheres as well?

    Is it going to cast shadows and/or become illuminated by scene lights?

    The image below has ambient light from IBL affecting fog colour, this is going to be a scalar parameter so people can decide whether they want it or not, and to what degree it's affected.

    mGm0cXt.png

    I'm working on direct light interaction with fog right now actually. The end goal is for the fog to react in a physically accurate way with lights, so you might be able to replicate things like this:
    IMG_0911-angelsbreathweb.jpg

    Because the fog is volumetric, you should be able to use it in combination with lights to create real-world volumetric phenomena.

    As for shapes of fog... i'd love to have more than one shape, but it's more complex than you might think. If we do add more shapes, chances are that will be after the release of the volumetric fog objects themselves.
  • eddietoast
    Regarding Advanced Metanless and Frostbite:
    "Relectance Defines the Fresnel refectance value at normal incidence (f0) into an artist-friendly range for dielectric materials (i.e. MetalMask < 1). The lower part of this attribute
    defines a micro-specular occlusion term used for both dielectric and metal materials
    ."

    So their specular offset can be used for micro occlusion for both dielectrics and metals, something UE4 does not have. Will yours support this?
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    eddietoast wrote: »
    Regarding Advanced Metanless and Frostbite:
    "Relectance Defines the Fresnel refectance value at normal incidence (f0) into an artist-friendly range for dielectric materials (i.e. MetalMask < 1). The lower part of this attribute
    defines a micro-specular occlusion term used for both dielectric and metal materials
    ."

    So their specular offset can be used for micro occlusion for both dielectrics and metals, something UE4 does not have. Will yours support this?

    I've conferred with one of the engineers who worked on that paper, and confirmed that we have it working correctly. Should this change, we'll be sure to update accordingly.
  • eddietoast
    Thank you for response. Your tool is excelent! Ragarding Spec Offset, if it will control micro-occlusion for both, this means we do not need Cavity Map then?

    And another question regarding detail maps: I understand you have detail normal and you can control Secondary Refelction, but do you have any plans to have detail albedo or something like crytek's UDM?
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    6h61z1r.jpg

    So i've been working on volumetric fog in toolbag, and i have a couple of semi-functional implementations. the first is a bound box of fog that you can scale, move, rotate in your scene, and the other is a global fog that affects everything evenly.

    The first would be super useful for things like ground fog, or simulating water depth and stuff. The second is something that is obviously a wanted feature in Toolbag and rightly so!

    But rather than just doing a simple fog which interpolates your scene colour into your fog colour at a given distance, we want this to be truly physically accurate, we want lights to interact with the fog properly, so you can use the fog to create atmospheric affects like raleigh scattering in huge scenes, or crepuscular rays shining through windows and things like that.

    I had hoped for this to be included in the next update, but it's looking more and more like it will be in the update after that instead. Sorry for the delay on this guys, i know you all want it, i'm working as hard as i can :D
  • ahtiandr
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    ahtiandr polycounter lvl 12
    looking great! Cant wait to play with this beauty!
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