Not that its of much consequence but I will throw a post up too
Background:
I was in toy soldiers for just over 13 years and have been in the games industry for nearly 3 years. My first gig in the games industry was as a Jr character artist at Eurocom (rip) after that, a straight character gig at Splash Damage, and I now make characters in the Dam for Guerrilla Games.
What problems did I face as and individual, how were they overcome?
ok I have the worst impostor syndrome you could imagine, so when i got my first gig it was hell for the first two months, when I was at splash it was hell for the first two months, and its been the same at guerrilla. You have to remember that you have been hired on the strength of the work that you have shown and the person that you are...and none of that has changed once you sit at that desk for the first time....sure you have new software/workflows/culture to ease yourself into, but these facts do not make you of less worth than the day before you started the job.
Getting settled in is an organic process, you have to ask questions, you are not expected to know everything day one, and people will not think less of you for it.
I'm ancient...I will be 38 this year, and still at the straight artist level when all around me there are leads and art directors just breaking 30. I think that this is worth mentioning cos I occasionally see those "am I too old" threads. The answer is no, you arent, but this industry is for young men and women in the trenches. In Europe at least, if you have a family and are getting into this industry late, expect to have less disposable income, and have to live further away from work than most of the people you will interact with at an onsite, you cannot live their dream. Reeling in expectations is important as otherwise you just set yourself up for disappointment once the reality of living in your new job dawns on you
-What problems did you face as a team?
I guess one of the biggest things has been trying to get everyone on the same page with pipelines, I have been in a situation where half the team and the new hires are wanting to use new techniques, while the established crowd are using something a bit outdated, now the outdated pipeline is still producing quality work, but a dynamic I look for in a team is the urge to push each other forward and to grow as artists together, and that's just something that you cant achieve in an environment resistant to change.
staffing issues suck balls. On one project we lost an artist about a third into the project that was never replaced this meant a reduction in scope and an unofficial policy between those of us that were left that the working week was 60 hours just cos we wanted to ship something that didn't look like shit.
Did you conquer them or put them aside for long enough to ship the game and deal with them later?
heres what I have learned so far from the issues that arise during development
Head down and charge still seems to be the only way in my experience.
I'm not high enough in the food chain to have a say in changing things, even though in reality I have 16 years experience in the creative industries I have less than three in games.
Things get cut, and for a while there can be a feeling of what could have been, but as a team you have to realise that you can only do so much.
Dont expect a pat on the back from management for extra effort...it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact the only appreciation that you will get is from the guy next to you. Be clear in your mind that that is enough, and it will kill your urge to bitch...well it did mine anyway
What is the true cost of the individual to reach the finish line. If it was too great, why? If the cost was well worth it, why?
in my case at least, being broke a lot, living away from loved ones for extended periods of time, and a lot of sacrifice to try and give my kids at least a half decent upbringing. I have been at points where I lost my car and have sold just about everything that wasn't nailed down to get by in this industry, mostly due to my shitty negotiating techniques and as mentioned above being at the wrong pay grade for most people my age with the responsibilities that I have.
But yeah I do think its worth it, I cant think of a job that feels less like work than this one really.
I do this cos I am a bit obsessed with it and because I suck at everything else.
I do this cos all I have in this world is my family and my love of making stuff, and I cant live without either, even though they clash at times.
I do this cos... well cos they haven't found out I stole all the art in my folio and outsource my daily tasks to china.
This is a great and very interesting thread, I'm freshly out of school and working my first job in industry at EA in Burnaby, Vancouver. I'm 28 so I would have to say that I think that alot of people make the mistake of thinking that this industry is different because it's run by artists, but the truth is that the people doing the managing and running of the business are still "business" people and in the end where-ever you're working is still a business that needs to turn a profit and run efficiently. This isn't always achieved in this industry, and of course doesn't work in other industries either. Artists are somewhat "different" but we are still people and just as fallible as the entire rest of the population. Definitely some great opinions and relevant feedback that everyone is sharing!
To sum it up: stay true to yourself. Just because other people do it, just because it's "policy", etc. doesn't mean it's the right thing to do!
Don't get too attached to an employer or game. This sounds harsh, but you have to understand that you work in commercial venture, and that in many cases, it is not you who is in control of the game. Attachment to a certain degree is good, because it makes you care about work and the product. But if you get sleepless nights, your stress levels go up, then attachment becomes unhealthy, and no product or company is worth endangering your health (your friends, family, etc. will surely agree!). It's good to regularly do a reality check about your own involvement, your boss's expectations and the status of the projects you work on. Otherwise you just risk burning out.
Overall, the cost was worth it. I would do some minor things different, but overall it all worked out well. One aspect I immensely enjoy is that game development allowed me to live and work all across the world, and which allowed me to really expand my horizon. That's something only very few jobs can offer you
I managed to stay out of politics, gossip and other unhealthy activities, and also keep crunch to a healthy minimum, to get going for at least another 10 years in the industry - I'm still loving it
Kwramm, your post I found especially hit home, and is just great general advice to anyone in any professional environment. Keep posting guys and hopefully in the future I will get to work amicably with a lot of you!
Man its been great reading this stuff, some really valuable advice / lessons and knowledge bombs in here. I hope more people come forth even at the risk of sounding repetitive its *always* a good read.
I'm ancient...I will be 38 this year, and still at the straight artist level when all around me there are leads and art directors just breaking 30.
I can relate to this so well.
After 7.5ish years in the biz with I don't know how many projects (6-8 i think) under my belt, I'd expected to at least be a senior by now.
But nope. Seems to be nowhere in sight either. It's bringing me down quite a bit with self doubt and an impostor syndrome running wild.
Short background
No studio work before the job I will talk about. I have been trying to get in as a 3D artist but since moving to the Seattle area. I was in need for something. I decided to take one of those jobs floating around I vowed never to take.... yes a tester, Visual Design Tester actually at one of those Big studios that just released a huge title that was supposed to be something but kind of wasn't. Yea I saw it coming LOL.
The story
I had never done a tester job before, and going into this the focus in my interview was on the visual design stuff i would be doing (they saw talent in me as an artist) but on the down times I would do some testing. I said ok give and take right? Wrong I got tossed into a dark and giant pit with other testers. No direction really. Remember I am new at this, I told them that. The training was some quick reads. No one really helped at all... That's fine I still learned quick enough. (But the parallels to the missing direction in the actual game are hilarious says something about a company)
During my breaks I would work on 3D models on my surface at the desk, or in the kitchen, outside... mainly the desk ( I figured I could get more work done if I wasn't walking somewhere else, always thinking of the company first.) I wasn't told any set break times just the times to do them. So I would set my breaks up at times that worked out well for me (not half way between start in lunch, or lunch and finish)
I was talked to about my time and when I was doing art, I explained everything didn't get a sorry, then on top of that they told me they didn't want me working on art during my breaks. Its "all about testing down here" (yes down here they kept us separated from the real workers lol (the artist if you can't see through my sarcasm)
So because of that I decided to stop doing my art on breaks and I did my breaks at set times. Fast forward a few weeks. The week after Beta I was going to get to do my very first Visual Design work... I was ecstatic, the whole reason I left my long term job to do a short stint here, if you don't' take chances in life you don't get ahead I have heard.
Finished up beta and came in the next week. Some women came to see me through the company that hired me on. We had a talk in another room. I would think to myself,' what is this...promotion to 3D artist...no that's silly, it's far too soon for that.' In fact it was one of the worst possible things that could have happened, I was let go. "Work performance" I was told she didn't know why. I had to exit the building right away; I wasn't allowed to even get my stuff. I would get it from the agency the next day when they called.
The next day rolled around... I kind of needed my other valuables. They said they didn't' get anything and no one is probably going back to get it. WHAT! How can they treat people like that?
The whole situation was weird. Since the release of the game and the reaction to it not being that great. I am starting to think good judgment is what's missing from the company. They didn't see they were sitting on a great artist as myself (well I have potential to be but slightly better than average is a good start in my book.) with the fact of letting me go, and the game was not what it should have been. I am really wondering about AAA companies lately. I hope they are not all this way?
Its a sad but not uncommon story I'm afraid Tyler. Especially the part about you not even being able to return to your desk to collect your belongings. I know the urge to lash out all too well, I bet a lot of the folks here have experienced something similar at some point. Its really a shitty thing, at the very least you could be escorted back to your desk to grab your things and ensure you don't go rogue and steal anyone elses things etc.
They didn't see they were sitting on a great artist as myself (well I have potential to be but slightly better than average is a good start in my book.)
I looked at all the work you have posted and tried to spend a moment tracking down a folio but couldn't find one. Your work that ive seen so far isn't at the point of even a hireable junior artist level and to me, is probably below average. Saying things like this is *never* going to do you any favors.
That's detracting from the purpose of the thread, but I felt compelled to at least be honest with you about that. If you want to talk more about it, PM me and we can continue it there.
I don't look at the "Senior" title as a sign of seniority, as in I've been with the company for X years, or I've worked in the industry since before Sigourney Weaver, so I'm entitled to it.
That's how I see it. When I consider people for promotion it's usually that the have 3 things: they have the skill, they are independent, and they can take responsibility for their actions. The more senior you are, the stronger you are in all these areas.
However promotions isn't all just about that. In many companies there's a budget or HR requires a ratio of Sr. vs. Jr. positions before they consider your team to be lopsided. Imho this is sort of silly, but it's the reality. And as a team lead you are also between sides. On the one hand you have to please your boss, and on the other you have to please your team. It's often a fine line to walk when, whom and how to promote, so that everyone is happy.
If you're somewhere where you can't get promoted, and you'd like to join another company at a higher position, make sure to focus on the 3 mentioned areas: independence, skill. taking responsibility.
And always remember: titles don't count much. One company's seniors are another company's juniors
I worked an office job doing IT, when I cam to the game industry it was pretty much like taking all the shitty things from my office experience and turning it down. Not as many bosses to answer to, less cliques, nobody chewing me out for being a minute late, easier to get time off, and no rigid dress code among other things.
Replies
Background:
I was in toy soldiers for just over 13 years and have been in the games industry for nearly 3 years. My first gig in the games industry was as a Jr character artist at Eurocom (rip) after that, a straight character gig at Splash Damage, and I now make characters in the Dam for Guerrilla Games.
What problems did I face as and individual, how were they overcome?
ok I have the worst impostor syndrome you could imagine, so when i got my first gig it was hell for the first two months, when I was at splash it was hell for the first two months, and its been the same at guerrilla. You have to remember that you have been hired on the strength of the work that you have shown and the person that you are...and none of that has changed once you sit at that desk for the first time....sure you have new software/workflows/culture to ease yourself into, but these facts do not make you of less worth than the day before you started the job.
Getting settled in is an organic process, you have to ask questions, you are not expected to know everything day one, and people will not think less of you for it.
I'm ancient...I will be 38 this year, and still at the straight artist level when all around me there are leads and art directors just breaking 30. I think that this is worth mentioning cos I occasionally see those "am I too old" threads. The answer is no, you arent, but this industry is for young men and women in the trenches. In Europe at least, if you have a family and are getting into this industry late, expect to have less disposable income, and have to live further away from work than most of the people you will interact with at an onsite, you cannot live their dream. Reeling in expectations is important as otherwise you just set yourself up for disappointment once the reality of living in your new job dawns on you
-What problems did you face as a team?
I guess one of the biggest things has been trying to get everyone on the same page with pipelines, I have been in a situation where half the team and the new hires are wanting to use new techniques, while the established crowd are using something a bit outdated, now the outdated pipeline is still producing quality work, but a dynamic I look for in a team is the urge to push each other forward and to grow as artists together, and that's just something that you cant achieve in an environment resistant to change.
staffing issues suck balls. On one project we lost an artist about a third into the project that was never replaced this meant a reduction in scope and an unofficial policy between those of us that were left that the working week was 60 hours just cos we wanted to ship something that didn't look like shit.
Did you conquer them or put them aside for long enough to ship the game and deal with them later?
heres what I have learned so far from the issues that arise during development
Head down and charge still seems to be the only way in my experience.
I'm not high enough in the food chain to have a say in changing things, even though in reality I have 16 years experience in the creative industries I have less than three in games.
Things get cut, and for a while there can be a feeling of what could have been, but as a team you have to realise that you can only do so much.
Dont expect a pat on the back from management for extra effort...it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact the only appreciation that you will get is from the guy next to you. Be clear in your mind that that is enough, and it will kill your urge to bitch...well it did mine anyway
What is the true cost of the individual to reach the finish line. If it was too great, why? If the cost was well worth it, why?
in my case at least, being broke a lot, living away from loved ones for extended periods of time, and a lot of sacrifice to try and give my kids at least a half decent upbringing. I have been at points where I lost my car and have sold just about everything that wasn't nailed down to get by in this industry, mostly due to my shitty negotiating techniques and as mentioned above being at the wrong pay grade for most people my age with the responsibilities that I have.
But yeah I do think its worth it, I cant think of a job that feels less like work than this one really.
I do this cos I am a bit obsessed with it and because I suck at everything else.
I do this cos all I have in this world is my family and my love of making stuff, and I cant live without either, even though they clash at times.
I do this cos... well cos they haven't found out I stole all the art in my folio and outsource my daily tasks to china.
That's a great link d1ver
Kwramm, your post I found especially hit home, and is just great general advice to anyone in any professional environment. Keep posting guys and hopefully in the future I will get to work amicably with a lot of you!
I can relate to this so well.
After 7.5ish years in the biz with I don't know how many projects (6-8 i think) under my belt, I'd expected to at least be a senior by now.
But nope. Seems to be nowhere in sight either. It's bringing me down quite a bit with self doubt and an impostor syndrome running wild.
Short background
No studio work before the job I will talk about. I have been trying to get in as a 3D artist but since moving to the Seattle area. I was in need for something. I decided to take one of those jobs floating around I vowed never to take.... yes a tester, Visual Design Tester actually at one of those Big studios that just released a huge title that was supposed to be something but kind of wasn't. Yea I saw it coming LOL.
The story
I had never done a tester job before, and going into this the focus in my interview was on the visual design stuff i would be doing (they saw talent in me as an artist) but on the down times I would do some testing. I said ok give and take right? Wrong I got tossed into a dark and giant pit with other testers. No direction really. Remember I am new at this, I told them that. The training was some quick reads. No one really helped at all... That's fine I still learned quick enough. (But the parallels to the missing direction in the actual game are hilarious says something about a company)
During my breaks I would work on 3D models on my surface at the desk, or in the kitchen, outside... mainly the desk ( I figured I could get more work done if I wasn't walking somewhere else, always thinking of the company first.) I wasn't told any set break times just the times to do them. So I would set my breaks up at times that worked out well for me (not half way between start in lunch, or lunch and finish)
I was talked to about my time and when I was doing art, I explained everything didn't get a sorry, then on top of that they told me they didn't want me working on art during my breaks. Its "all about testing down here" (yes down here they kept us separated from the real workers lol (the artist if you can't see through my sarcasm)
So because of that I decided to stop doing my art on breaks and I did my breaks at set times. Fast forward a few weeks. The week after Beta I was going to get to do my very first Visual Design work... I was ecstatic, the whole reason I left my long term job to do a short stint here, if you don't' take chances in life you don't get ahead I have heard.
Finished up beta and came in the next week. Some women came to see me through the company that hired me on. We had a talk in another room. I would think to myself,' what is this...promotion to 3D artist...no that's silly, it's far too soon for that.' In fact it was one of the worst possible things that could have happened, I was let go. "Work performance" I was told she didn't know why. I had to exit the building right away; I wasn't allowed to even get my stuff. I would get it from the agency the next day when they called.
The next day rolled around... I kind of needed my other valuables. They said they didn't' get anything and no one is probably going back to get it. WHAT! How can they treat people like that?
The whole situation was weird. Since the release of the game and the reaction to it not being that great. I am starting to think good judgment is what's missing from the company. They didn't see they were sitting on a great artist as myself (well I have potential to be but slightly better than average is a good start in my book.) with the fact of letting me go, and the game was not what it should have been. I am really wondering about AAA companies lately. I hope they are not all this way?
Just one thing though, this...
I looked at all the work you have posted and tried to spend a moment tracking down a folio but couldn't find one. Your work that ive seen so far isn't at the point of even a hireable junior artist level and to me, is probably below average. Saying things like this is *never* going to do you any favors.
That's detracting from the purpose of the thread, but I felt compelled to at least be honest with you about that. If you want to talk more about it, PM me and we can continue it there.
That's how I see it. When I consider people for promotion it's usually that the have 3 things: they have the skill, they are independent, and they can take responsibility for their actions. The more senior you are, the stronger you are in all these areas.
However promotions isn't all just about that. In many companies there's a budget or HR requires a ratio of Sr. vs. Jr. positions before they consider your team to be lopsided. Imho this is sort of silly, but it's the reality. And as a team lead you are also between sides. On the one hand you have to please your boss, and on the other you have to please your team. It's often a fine line to walk when, whom and how to promote, so that everyone is happy.
If you're somewhere where you can't get promoted, and you'd like to join another company at a higher position, make sure to focus on the 3 mentioned areas: independence, skill. taking responsibility.
And always remember: titles don't count much. One company's seniors are another company's juniors