I think it's wrong that you have essentially copied an old Magnataur concept by Valve. If they didn't choose that concept to go ingame why do you think they will choose your version of it that is almost identical? (I know this has been mentioned before)
EDIT: Removed the original concept picture as I don't think it needed to be posted here again.
On another note, I have made some progress on BladeOfEvil'sBane's Treant concept. It's still not really defined but thought I would give an update after day 1
I agree. Also, its kinda weird to be using another artists work(that you don't have permission to use) and create work with it to possibly get money for it. The rights belong to Valve, but I've seen people create models for in-game items like Radiance and Blink Dagger so I dunno what to think.
I did this concept because I suck at concept and design and I couldnt find a decent concept artist who knows what he is doing, because all of them think they have cool ideas but most of them are far from DOTA's art style and have no definition whatsoever. This is my first set so I dont care if it doesnt make it into the game. I feel it more as a practice and experience not to make money. Valve has the final decision if this set is going to be in the game or not so calm down, stop whining and give me some proper feedback which I asked for since the beginning. I thought this thread is to help others by giving each other feedback and unite people, instead of that all I get is being pointed with a finger "Booo you're using concept that u dont have a right to"
Well.... thanks for the help..... great community....
I did this concept because I suck at concept and design and I couldnt find a decent concept artist who knows what he is doing, because all of them think they have cool ideas but most of them are far from DOTA's art style and have no definition whatsoever. This is my first set so I dont care if it doesnt make it into the game. I feel it more as a practice and experience not to make money. Valve has the final decision if this set is going to be in the game or not so calm down, stop whining and give me some proper feedback which I asked for since the beginning. I thought this thread is to help others by giving each other feedback and unite people, instead of that all I get is being pointed with a finger "Booo you're using concept that u dont have a right to"
Well.... thanks for the help..... great community....
Apologies if you think I was trying to be rude and unhelpful but I think that was proper feedback.
We have many talented concept artists right here on Polycount, so I think you would be much better off finding one of them and working with them to create something original, as you can clearly model and sculpt, I think people would be happy to work with you.
Bare in mind this is a thread for a competition, if you were making something for practice it may be better to post it in the Workshop Thread or your own thread.
I did this concept because I suck at concept and design and I couldnt find a decent concept artist who knows what he is doing, because all of them think they have cool ideas but most of them are far from DOTA's art style and have no definition whatsoever. This is my first set so I dont care if it doesnt make it into the game. I feel it more as a practice and experience not to make money. Valve has the final decision if this set is going to be in the game or not so calm down, stop whining and give me some proper feedback which I asked for since the beginning. I thought this thread is to help others by giving each other feedback and unite people, instead of that all I get is being pointed with a finger "Booo you're using concept that u dont have a right to"
Well.... thanks for the help..... great community....
And isn't that feedback? That's pretty much one of the first things you learn, which is to never use something you didn't create or don't have permission to use for money. Honestly it's irrelevant if your work is extremely good or bad when you use something you don't have permission over when there's the possibility of making money using it. Even though 'Valve has the final decision', I still think it's wrong.
People are trying to help you not making the mistake of using stuff that isn't yours without permission, but if you can't take that and still think that they're wrong and this 'small' factor should be ignored, then you're probably at the wrong place for critique. If this is just 'practice' then you should have probably said that, and still, I don't see a reason on making half-assed stuff just because it's for practice. Get an original concept and do it justice! There are plenty of very talented concept artists around here who I bet would be more than happy to create an original concept for you to use, and you're probably not searching very well when you say that the concepts 'are far from DOTA's art style and have no definition whatsoever'.
What I meant was feedback on the actual items, on the modelling, sculpting, texturing etc. Also I am making this set to show it on the forum so people can see what I am capable of and perhaps work with me. When I was searching for a collab I went through many threads and I sent a few private messages but when they answer with their concept or art they have done before their concepts were just a starting point, shape blockouts with no definition or detail. No clear ideas in general. But nevermind that I guess I will have better luck after I finish this set.
Excuse my attitude but I hate it when others get valuable feedback when they are not even trying. I have noticed that not only here but also my lecturers tend to give more attention to people who are careless and it is obvious that they have no future in this industry but they still whine, ask stupid questions and get super useful answers or direction which they wont bother to remember but would be so much valuable for me for example.
What I meant was feedback on the actual items, on the modelling, sculpting, texturing etc.
That would be ignoring the biggest problem, it'd be like saying that your steak is too well done while the building is on fire.
Also I am making this set to show it on the forum so people can see what I am capable of and perhaps work with me.
Many people here started out that exact way but did so by doing items with the resident concept artists or their own concepts. For me at least, your attempt has exactly backfired, if you would have done a not-so-good concept but had excellent execution, that is much more likely to get you noticed here. So far you've only managed to show that you down seem to want to take the critique that is offered.
When I was searching for a collab I went through many threads and I sent a few private messages but when they answer with their concept or art they have done before their concepts were just a starting point, shape blockouts with no definition or detail.
You missed your first lesson right there, for most of Dota models, not a whole lot of detail is required. What's important is the big shapes and readability of the set. Also, here's an example of how a collaboration like that can result in an awesome set (again, nice execution will get you noticed positively) :
This was Ken's concept, focused mostly on defining the big shapes.
And this was motenai's sculpt, adding in all the small details.
Excuse my attitude but I hate it when others get valuable feedback when they are not even trying. I have noticed that not only here but also my lecturers tend to give more attention to people who are careless and it is obvious that they have no future in this industry but they still whine, ask stupid questions and get super useful answers or direction which they wont bother to remember but would be so much valuable for me for example.
First of all, that sounds incredibly elitist in a negative way and secondly, what's stopping you from learning from the advice other people get? Somebody doing a set for a completely different hero can still be having a similar problem to yours. Also, I'm not a big fan of just typing out paragraphs when people just say "Give feedback please". You'll notice the people who get the most feedback are the people that GIVE the most feedback or are the most open to it. This forum is a back and forth and not a one way street, if you invest time in the community, the community will invest time in you.
Thank you for your time to answer, I agree with most of the things you say but I will not continue to argue because its just pointless. Its normal to misinterpret things when the conversation is not in person, I know that I have a lot to learn and I guess I am impatient to learn all of it and that is why I get so frustrated. Especially when I see that someone is improving faster than me
About the Legion Commander set, I have seen the creation process on YouTube and I totally agree with you that the concept was further developed and improved in the sculpting stage and the final version is awesome. I will have no problem creating a set from such concept, but what I have seen so far I found only a few concept artists who can deliver such simple yet clear idea.
Just forget about it I guess its just me, I will become wiser with time( so I hope)
Thank you for your time to answer, I agree with most of the things you say but I will not continue to argue because its just pointless. Its normal to misinterpret things when the conversation is not in person, I know that I have a lot to learn and I guess I am impatient to learn all of it and that is why I get so frustrated. Especially when I see that someone is improving faster than me
About the Legion Commander set, I have seen the creation process on YouTube and I totally agree with you that the concept was further developed and improved in the sculpting stage and the final version is awesome. I will have no problem creating a set from such concept, but what I have seen so far I found only a few concept artists who can deliver such simple yet clear idea.
Just forget about it I guess its just me, I will become wiser with time( so I hope)
Game is hard on forums, but i think you got some really good feedback on other things besides your actual model
a good concept artists is really hard to find with free time, same as modelers, animators... my suggestion would be to get a guy trying to improve the skills like you and you both learn together. or you can try it by yourself because even following someones concept you will need to have some creation time, you will need to be a little the concept artists.
In a more generic way, you should try to learn about all the areas even if you are not going to work on that. In the case Spud used, Ken made an amazing concept, but if you check some details, Motenai had some freedom and changed, like the overall shape of the main blade. That just happened because Motenai is also good at concepting and you can trust him on taking some of those decisions.
Also another good thing mentioned here is the back and forth relationship. of course is not always like that, but if you keep helping other people they will help you. But expect like 10% or less, but those 10% guys that will return and give you a proper feedback they will make it worth all the effort. =]
I thought this thread is to help others by giving each other feedback and unite people, instead of that all I get is being pointed with a finger "Booo you're using concept that u dont have a right to"
Well.... thanks for the help..... great community....
I don't think anyone was pointing a finger at you. You were/are falling into copyright quicksand and the good people of polycount were/are reaching out a hand to pull you back. It is a great community, and when you get a bunch of people giving the same advice then its probably true.
Maybe too soon to ask butnow that valve added some single item chests will we continue making single item competition next month?
Prosomogy: How do you do these awesome weapons, they are always the best ones.
Congratz Baddcog! I totally agree that he deserves the first place, the idea is really awesome and I love how he blended the head item with the texture of the base head.
here is some concept art for a Magnus hammer. i'm planning to do an entire set but i will probably only be able to make one or two items before the next month.
nice concept, BUT, listen to the sound effect when magnus attacks, it sounds like a slash, not a bash ( like a hammer) but maybe, u could make a custom sound? or use omniknight attack sound effect. good luck with that hammer.
Hey guys, Im usually alright with skinning but the back area of Magnus is starting to piss me off, first with the belt and now with the miscellaneous piece. Every time I make changes to the Skin modifier in 3ds Max I re-import my item into dota and test it in-game to see if it is working good. Is there a faster way? Is this the way you guys do it?
@[NB] Mohsen
Thanks for the reply.
I dont think we are allowed to change the textures of the base bodies but atm im trying to fit the idle state of magnus in-game. Because the pose in the files is different and his body keeps going through my strap in the idle and run animation.
I don't use 3ds max but maybe check how the bones are skinned to Magnus's back. see how the weights are in his back and try to do the same on your item.
@hmshark That was my base for skinning but because his back has too much stretching because it just fur it doesnt matter, but on my detailed strap I needed better weighting.
@Baddcog If only we could see the animations inside 3ds max, skinning would have been so much easier
But yeah, here is the whole set in-game, I am really happy how it turned out, it just needs some minor tweaks and marketing images. Idk how to submit a whole set so it would probably take a while. Anyways if you see something wrong do not hesitate to tell me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2EMXK_lELI&feature=youtu.be
@hmshark I put them close to his body so its harder to see that they have no thickness. Do you think it would be better your way? Even in my video they disappear at one point
@Gumbata hmmm, I once had these problems, don't worry about them. no one in game will realize that they are far from his back, but make sure to test it ingame when the straps are far so u can see that everything is fine, if its not fine, maybe increase the tris on the straps ? like this, u can make the weights more accurate and better :P
tell me if any way works
EDIT: make sure to check the angle in which the straps disappear. if the players wont see magnus in that angle then, its no problem. just check the angle in which the players see magnus ( top view)
@hmshark You watched the last video I posted right? I think the strap is working a lot better now and its movement actually looks like cloth following the hero's movements so I am satisfied with the final result Thanks for the suggestions!
Had to put this entry on the back burner while I finished up a chest piece for Wraith King as part of an old set. Back into the sculpt now and moving along.
Hey everyone!
I misread the rules and thought it was a singles month but seeing as singles can't win a trophy I don't feel bad about ninja posting a finished item.
Made a ward summon for Venomancer complete with custom particle effects by Abyss.
Hello everyone, I finally submitted my Magnus set! Sorry but I don't know how to link it with an image but you can check it out in the workshop. I am currently working on a collection image but its gonna take a while because im not very good at promoting , This is what I have so far:
Thank you for your time!
actually i could imagine to take the whole mythology as pool.
they have such fantastic and unique stuff that would fit SO perfectly into doto,
but for any weird reason nobody rly made something into that direction so far
(besides the flying carpet smeevil that was done by volvo for last years ti)
the theme would work for:
courier, ward, darkseer, bounty hunter, storm spirit, ember spirit, chen, kotl, pugna, sand king, warlock, shadow shaman, lina, invoker... maybe even more
Replies
I agree. Also, its kinda weird to be using another artists work(that you don't have permission to use) and create work with it to possibly get money for it. The rights belong to Valve, but I've seen people create models for in-game items like Radiance and Blink Dagger so I dunno what to think.
Btw, cool Treant set MDK!
Well.... thanks for the help..... great community....
Apologies if you think I was trying to be rude and unhelpful but I think that was proper feedback.
We have many talented concept artists right here on Polycount, so I think you would be much better off finding one of them and working with them to create something original, as you can clearly model and sculpt, I think people would be happy to work with you.
Bare in mind this is a thread for a competition, if you were making something for practice it may be better to post it in the Workshop Thread or your own thread.
And isn't that feedback? That's pretty much one of the first things you learn, which is to never use something you didn't create or don't have permission to use for money. Honestly it's irrelevant if your work is extremely good or bad when you use something you don't have permission over when there's the possibility of making money using it. Even though 'Valve has the final decision', I still think it's wrong.
People are trying to help you not making the mistake of using stuff that isn't yours without permission, but if you can't take that and still think that they're wrong and this 'small' factor should be ignored, then you're probably at the wrong place for critique. If this is just 'practice' then you should have probably said that, and still, I don't see a reason on making half-assed stuff just because it's for practice. Get an original concept and do it justice! There are plenty of very talented concept artists around here who I bet would be more than happy to create an original concept for you to use, and you're probably not searching very well when you say that the concepts 'are far from DOTA's art style and have no definition whatsoever'.
Excuse my attitude but I hate it when others get valuable feedback when they are not even trying. I have noticed that not only here but also my lecturers tend to give more attention to people who are careless and it is obvious that they have no future in this industry but they still whine, ask stupid questions and get super useful answers or direction which they wont bother to remember but would be so much valuable for me for example.
@Gumbata
That would be ignoring the biggest problem, it'd be like saying that your steak is too well done while the building is on fire.
Many people here started out that exact way but did so by doing items with the resident concept artists or their own concepts. For me at least, your attempt has exactly backfired, if you would have done a not-so-good concept but had excellent execution, that is much more likely to get you noticed here. So far you've only managed to show that you down seem to want to take the critique that is offered.
You missed your first lesson right there, for most of Dota models, not a whole lot of detail is required. What's important is the big shapes and readability of the set. Also, here's an example of how a collaboration like that can result in an awesome set (again, nice execution will get you noticed positively) :
This was Ken's concept, focused mostly on defining the big shapes.
And this was motenai's sculpt, adding in all the small details.
First of all, that sounds incredibly elitist in a negative way and secondly, what's stopping you from learning from the advice other people get? Somebody doing a set for a completely different hero can still be having a similar problem to yours. Also, I'm not a big fan of just typing out paragraphs when people just say "Give feedback please". You'll notice the people who get the most feedback are the people that GIVE the most feedback or are the most open to it. This forum is a back and forth and not a one way street, if you invest time in the community, the community will invest time in you.
Thank you for your time to answer, I agree with most of the things you say but I will not continue to argue because its just pointless. Its normal to misinterpret things when the conversation is not in person, I know that I have a lot to learn and I guess I am impatient to learn all of it and that is why I get so frustrated. Especially when I see that someone is improving faster than me
About the Legion Commander set, I have seen the creation process on YouTube and I totally agree with you that the concept was further developed and improved in the sculpting stage and the final version is awesome. I will have no problem creating a set from such concept, but what I have seen so far I found only a few concept artists who can deliver such simple yet clear idea.
Just forget about it
Realm Protector by mihalceanu
and a bigger image :
The final textures look much better than the pink ones I think
Also the marketing image looks awesome, love the weapon!
Updated
Soul Destroyer
Game is hard on forums, but i think you got some really good feedback on other things besides your actual model
a good concept artists is really hard to find with free time, same as modelers, animators... my suggestion would be to get a guy trying to improve the skills like you and you both learn together. or you can try it by yourself because even following someones concept you will need to have some creation time, you will need to be a little the concept artists.
In a more generic way, you should try to learn about all the areas even if you are not going to work on that. In the case Spud used, Ken made an amazing concept, but if you check some details, Motenai had some freedom and changed, like the overall shape of the main blade. That just happened because Motenai is also good at concepting and you can trust him on taking some of those decisions.
Also another good thing mentioned here is the back and forth relationship. of course is not always like that, but if you keep helping other people they will help you. But expect like 10% or less, but those 10% guys that will return and give you a proper feedback they will make it worth all the effort. =]
----
btw guys, last month winner was announced!
congrats Baddcog!!
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2066596&postcount=170
I don't think anyone was pointing a finger at you. You were/are falling into copyright quicksand and the good people of polycount were/are reaching out a hand to pull you back. It is a great community, and when you get a bunch of people giving the same advice then its probably true.
Anyways, good luck to you moving forwards.
Its done:3
Lod0+texture by kaas
Prosomogy: How do you do these awesome weapons, they are always the best ones.
Thanks @Tamarin
Congratz Baddcog! I totally agree that he deserves the first place, the idea is really awesome and I love how he blended the head item with the texture of the base head.
here is some concept art for a Magnus hammer. i'm planning to do an entire set but i will probably only be able to make one or two items before the next month.
Idk how to make gifs so here is a quick video on YouTube to visualize what I mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mt8w9-yNX4&feature=youtu.be
Thanks for the reply.
I dont think we are allowed to change the textures of the base bodies but atm im trying to fit the idle state of magnus in-game. Because the pose in the files is different and his body keeps going through my strap in the idle and run animation.
But yeah, just make it bigger and thicker.
Anyway, so many items in game do this stuff... of course it's best not too but I don't think Valve looks to hard
@Baddcog If only we could see the animations inside 3ds max, skinning would have been so much easier
But yeah, here is the whole set in-game, I am really happy how it turned out, it just needs some minor tweaks and marketing images. Idk how to submit a whole set so it would probably take a while. Anyways if you see something wrong do not hesitate to tell me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2EMXK_lELI&feature=youtu.be
tell me if any way works
EDIT: make sure to check the angle in which the straps disappear. if the players wont see magnus in that angle then, its no problem. just check the angle in which the players see magnus ( top view)
Don't think I'll be able to finish it in time, but it's worth a try
P.S.: the polycounts make me want to cry
I misread the rules and thought it was a singles month but seeing as singles can't win a trophy I don't feel bad about ninja posting a finished item.
Made a ward summon for Venomancer complete with custom particle effects by Abyss.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=263765162
Check it out!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264222391
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264221625
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264220717
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264219368
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=264215041
Presentation Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUSH5Q9JCDk
Hello everyone, I finally submitted my Magnus set! Sorry but I don't know how to link it with an image but you can check it out in the workshop. I am currently working on a collection image but its gonna take a while because im not very good at promoting
Thank you for your time!
we still have more 3 days, so plan your time till the deadline
time to stop playing dota and increasing the stock of coffee =]
btw, we need ideas for the next month, what you guys think of the sets for the contest? is too much? we should go back to single items?
cheers!
could imagine some awesome items as well as wards and even couriers.
they have such fantastic and unique stuff that would fit SO perfectly into doto,
but for any weird reason nobody rly made something into that direction so far
(besides the flying carpet smeevil that was done by volvo for last years ti)
the theme would work for:
courier, ward, darkseer, bounty hunter, storm spirit, ember spirit, chen, kotl, pugna, sand king, warlock, shadow shaman, lina, invoker... maybe even more