Call it what they will, but micro transactions are still f2p. I actually hope CC do start to charge more for each smaller transaction as has been mentioned in financial news before. It would really cha ge this whole landscape.
Why hope for that? If it had a negative impact the changed landscape would be a shrinking of the game industry.
the main difference is they probably only care to screen anything that goes on the marketplace for sale. if there's free penis tanks, why bother caring? It certainly won't affect anyone's opinion of the game, UT has ALWAYS had those sorts of mods.
By having to go through one source even if its free makes them responsible for the content. Quick example: Muhammad model part of a religious model series free. Do you really think Epic will want to be linked to that? Say a famous celebrity whose agent is always chasing image rights/payment. Wasn[t there even something on here for awhile with not allowing Marvel characters? In short the free area would have to be regulated as well.
Why hope for that? If it had a negative impact the changed landscape would be a shrinking of the game industry.
Maybe it should shrink to become sustainble? How many good app games are lost in the mobile stores because of everyone and their brother releasing some sort of f2p.
Getting OT, but Justin my opinion is 180 of yours.
The idea is that they screen content that enters the mainline branch of the game, and the epic hosted marketplace. I don't think they'll stop anyone from adding the content on their own and running their own servers/marketplace , though. You just may be unable to use their matchmaking or store functionality. A bit like running your own WoW server.
Maybe it should shrink to become sustainble? How many good app games are lost in the mobile stores because of everyone and their brother releasing some sort of f2p.
Getting OT, but Justin my opinion is 180 of yours.
That's because you're applying the AAA mindset to f2p games, you don't have to be a blockbuster hit to make a sustainable profit. I've been working in the f2p market for about 4 years now.
"Well eventually create a marketplace where developers, modders, artists and gamers can give away, buy and sell mods and content. Earnings from the marketplace will be split between the mod/content developer, and Epic. Thats how we plan to pay for the game."
Yep, this is gonna be good.
Right on! This will have alot of potential to grow and evolve into something awesome!
I think by the term free, they mean there game's model is going to be more like something you'd see from Dota2 or TF2. There's no progression, you can't buy extra experience or boost. The purchases are going to be mostly cosmetic and community made maps, and I'm sure they'll integrate the best and most popular maps into the game.
"Well eventually create a marketplace where developers, modders, artists and gamers can give away, buy and sell mods and content. Earnings from the marketplace will be split between the mod/content developer, and Epic. Thats how we plan to pay for the game."
Yep, this is gonna be good.
whoa.
to think I could actually make money from modding a game this time around, I'm all for it.
This is absolutely amazing news and comes at the perfect time for me as I'm slowly learning the ropes of all things games and arts again !
I just hope the cry for basing it in UT 2004 instead of UT 99 will be heard.
UT 99 was ground breaking and all, but I feel they really nailed the weight and agility in UT 2004, even if dodging was a bit finnicky the movement was smooth, didn't feel floaty and most of all allowed great manoeuvrability without becoming all Quake like.
Add to that the Adrenaline system, which was a bit flawed in execution but honestly a great idea and the brilliant use of actual colours to make levels and characters stand out yet remain grounded in a futuristic reality.
I personally also prefer nearly all the weapon iterations as they appeared in UT 2004, except the minigun and the enforcer (both better in UT99 imo)
Let's also not forget how well UT99 and 2003/2004 handled it's singleplayer. Sure it was just a series of death matches, but the little bits like assembling your own team, grudge matches and getting money to pay for new members, was just the right amount of choice for what was essentially bot matches.
If some group charges for a mod, are they not a game company at that point? This could be opening a can of worms.
If someone releases a mod that does the same thing or even slightly better than a another mod being charged for, does Epic have to stop allowing the free version? Better yet the above with a twist. A free version existed first, then someone else makes a paid version thats slightly better. Does the free version guy have as much sway to demand the paid removal?
If some group charges for a mod, are they not a game company at that point? This could be opening a can of worms.
If someone releases a mod that does the same thing or even slightly better than a another mod being charged for, does Epic have to stop allowing the free version? Better yet the above with a twist. A free version existed first, then someone else makes a paid version thats slightly better. Does the free version guy have as much sway to demand the paid removal?
I'd say look at the Unity asset store. There are assets and things up there for free and for sale. As long as there isn't copyright infringement going on it should be fine.
I don't really see a problem with this to be honest. I do hope things like maps are free for players though. If I join a server running a custom premium map, I'm not going to pay $2 to connect, fuck that.
If done well though, this could be an amazing movement for Epic. It's too early to tell how good or bad this move is, in my opinion.
''Well eventually create a marketplace where developers, modders, artists and gamers can give away, buy and sell mods and content. Earnings from the marketplace will be split between the mod/content developer, and Epic.''
Are we talking of a 5% royalties or more like 25-30%?
I'd say look at the Unity asset store. There are assets and things up there for free and for sale. As long as there isn't copyright infringement going on it should be fine.
Which limits the mods. Cmon, with Q3 and UT2k4, didn't you once download a model of something from another property? A Mario, Homer S., whatever. By having to go through Epic, its changing the whole dynamic of what UT was about.
Which limits the mods. Cmon, with Q3 and UT2k4, didn't you once download a model of something from another property? A Mario, Homer S., whatever. By having to go through Epic, its changing the whole dynamic of what UT was about.
nah, not really, never got the appeal of that. I mostly spent the time making my own stuff. Also nothing is stopping people from making their own mods, just don't put them on the store, it's like you're desperately hunting for something to be upset about. They could not do this and we could just go back to a non-existent mod scene.
nah, not really, never got the appeal of that. I mostly spent the time making my own stuff. Also nothing is stopping people from making their own mods, just don't put them on the store, it's like you're desperately hunting for something to be upset about. They could not do this and we could just go back to a non-existent mod scene.
Did you fail to see that everything is going through them whether its for sale or not? So no, it wont have the freedom to do what some would want. I already gave examples. Its like your desperately trying to ignore my point.
For a non existent mod scene there has been plenty done with say Skyrim. Torchlight 2 has a workshop as well.
Did you fail to see that everything is going through them whether its for sale or not? So no, it wont have the freedom to do what some would want. I already gave examples. Its like your desperately trying to ignore my point.
For a non existent mod scene there has been plenty done with say Skyrim. Torchlight 2 has a workshop as well.
So they have information somewhere I missed that said you can only distribute mods through their marketplace?
I was modding in the 90's when it seemed like a new genre was getting created on a monthly basis, the mod scene now doesn't really feel that vibrant - just graphical polish mods, textures and model swaps.
Anyway, my comment about copyright wasn't in reference to someone making a Homer Simpson model, I was replying to your hypothetical situation. If the mod cloner isn't violating the original mod's copyright I don't see an issue although I'm sure the community will raise hell if past experiences are any indication.
You get source access with a UE4 subscription. It's on their github, right next to the engine source. I don't see why anyone couldn't distribute copyrighted mods and assets in their own way, circumventing Epic, if it really came to that. With source access you can really change anything you need to fit your needs.
Which limits the mods. Cmon, with Q3 and UT2k4, didn't you once download a model of something from another property? A Mario, Homer S., whatever. By having to go through Epic, its changing the whole dynamic of what UT was about.
Since this haven't been all ironed out yet i guess we will have to wait how Epic actually pulls this off. Then it just depends on the ToS Epic sets up, if they make their ToS so that a regular non paid upload is in the creators liability and i guess you can upload anything you want, and most company's wont mind fan art unless its shitty Marvel.
Other then that i really think they will still allow drag and drop mods as always, so people can go wacky or if they just don't want to use the marketplace.
and most company's wont mind fan art unless its shitty Marvel.
IP holders usually don't care about textures and models - BUT I think it's because they aren't really aware of them. If it's a mod, you're going to get shut down eventually just look at the last 17 years of modding history.
IP holders usually don't care about textures and models - BUT I think it's because they aren't really aware of them. If it's a mod, you're going to get shut down eventually just look at the last 17 years of modding history.
Those mods who had been shut down where useally a bit more then just a player model though more like total conversations doing a copy of Chrono Trigger for example, which just came into my mind, yeah true but that always have been a problem even way before Epic considered doing a martplace for UT. Also where its wise to ask for permission first Capcom for example was always very freindly to modders who even made or tried games on their ideas.
There have been mods that have had explicit permission, including being featured on the respective company website that have ended up with cease and desist orders. HaloGen comes to mind.
It's just plain better to steer clear of other people's IPs.
That's usually my first thought when I see a mod based on someone else's IP ... 'Why not just come up with your own thing?' It's safer and you get to keep it.
"No no no guys, it's not free-to-play, its just free."
Made me chuckle. Talk about a tainted term.
yeah, honestly that confused the hell out of me. Free to play... still means free to me. I guess they're just trying to distance from microtransactions/pay to win. Was still super confusing how they kept repeating it lol. Because it is still free to play, technically...
well F2P games always have those trappings that end up affecting gameplay in one way or the other, in my experience; I don't blame them for wanting to avoid that term.
Really like the idea though, I'm glad Epic is interested in actually innovating instead of finding new ways to rip people off like other companies (cough, founder's pack).
Hey PC mods. A PC contest for a fantasy look at how a new unreal could look would be amazing.
Yea, but why fantasy? Should be then easy to get everyones entries in the game ones the development of the games has reached a certain state. How about a Polycount faction of characters with fitting maps which are of course located on the Polycount home planet?
Since this haven't been all ironed out yet i guess we will have to wait how Epic actually pulls this off. Then it just depends on the ToS Epic sets up, if they make their ToS so that a regular non paid upload is in the creators liability and i guess you can upload anything you want, and most company's wont mind fan art unless its shitty Marvel.
Other then that i really think they will still allow drag and drop mods as always, so people can go wacky or if they just don't want to use the marketplace.
Some IPs can be more unforgiving thena others. Long ago I inquired with the IP holder of Bob from Church of the Subgenius : for a UT4 model. "No" was the firm response. You would almost think they believe its a real religion..
Kraft, since sites that only link to illegal content from members can be judicially attacked as a whole versus the members. A site that actually hosts said content would seem to me to be even more at risk.
Yea, but why fantasy? Should be then easy to get everyones entries in the game ones the development of the games has reached a certain state. How about a Polycount faction of characters with fitting maps which are of course located on the Polycount home planet?
True, well in any case, i think if the epic guys would be down, and the pc mods are down. this should happen .
I was modding in the 90's when it seemed like a new genre was getting created on a monthly basis, the mod scene now doesn't really feel that vibrant - just graphical polish mods, textures and model swaps.
The early 90's WAS mainly texture swaps, then we mostly got different fps games since the mods were for fps games.
It was after the 90's we got the huge genre-defining mods.
counterstrike in 1999
dota in 2003
dayz in 2012
As to the new unreal tournament we will have the most absolute version of the unreal engine, and we'll have access to the entire source, while we're too busy being sad that we can't infringe on IP's we forget we had our own imagination.
Yea, but why fantasy? Should be then easy to get everyones entries in the game ones the development of the games has reached a certain state. How about a Polycount faction of characters with fitting maps which are of course located on the Polycount home planet?
Now that the Unreal discussion is going again, I've re-downloaded UT 2004 and I'm looking for some of the sexier maps/skins for it.
One map I cannot for the life of me find though was one set underwater, it was mostly custom meshes, included a kickass shark, sci fi setting and nice use of the colour red, if that rings anyones bells please do tell!
Would be fun to set up some list of PC contributions to UT, from 99 to 3
Now that the Unreal discussion is going again, I've re-downloaded UT 2004 and I'm looking for some of the sexier maps/skins for it.
One map I cannot for the life of me find though was one set underwater, it was mostly custom meshes, included a kickass shark, sci fi setting and nice use of the colour red, if that rings anyones bells please do tell!
Would be fun to set up some list of PC contributions to UT, from 99 to 3
I believe he does not make levels anymore or even went into the industry I could be wrong though. Lord Hesiher / Rich Black.
That level was awesome I remember when he was making it when were at CBP and it was very well made and thought out.
I have to see what the old CBP people are doing I would love to make a map or two.
If you have no idea what I am talking about. The community bonus pack or CBP was a team making map packs and mods. This team ended up becoming pretty well know in the unreal community as a pack that was almost retail quality content or better.
Thanks for the post, but no it's not DM-Tydal. It was similar though, I believe it was actually posted as a portfolio piece on Game-artist.net back in the day, shortly before or after the release of UT 3, I think it was a 1v1 map.
Also I just downloaded all CBP packs released so far, absolutely amazing content. Just amazing how much work went into all aspects of these maps and characters. Sad to realize paid for DLC these days is usually 3 maps or so, oh well, hope UT4 brings back everything good
The early 90's WAS mainly texture swaps, then we mostly got different fps games since the mods were for fps games.
It was after the 90's we got the huge genre-defining mods.
counterstrike in 1999
dota in 2003
dayz in 2012
I guess everyone thinks their generation is the greatest :P. I concede on my stance that mods died post quake but don't deny the influence of Team Fortress, Threewave CTF, Zeusbots and others. Not fps games for Quake: Quake Rally, Air Quake, Quake Battle Chess. It's been a while but I worked on a mod called Archmage and I do believe it had a third person camera.
I'm actually with you Justin. Quake 2 and beyond the mod scene was pretty fractured and it only got more so going forward. The days when everyone was focused on one game, Quake, was definitely the greatest time. IMO. I will hear no other opinion!
I haven't kept up with this new one's development, but are we getting Epic's patended tree-trunk people again for the models? Have they even gotten that far with concepting the characters?
Our internal team is VERY small atm. There are only a couple environment guys on the project atm. The map is still very wip, but we wanted to give an idea of the look we're going for.
I'm curious to see what the community is going to be like after the game ships. I really want this game to succeed, but I'm not sure if the competitive gaming community would be ready for something like this. If you look at other popular competitive games like CS, Quake 3, or MOBAs, you'll see that a very large amount of players are running the games on a high powered potato.
According to some community statistics (possibly released by Valve, I don't remember) there was something like 60% of CSGO players are unable to maintain 60 FPS on the game, and that is pretty shocking since the PC requirements of CSGO are pretty low compared to most modern games.
I'd hope that UT4 will have some kind of ultra low graphical settings that will help the game run better on lower spec machines. I love everything I've seen so far though, and the dedication of the community is quite inspiring!
Replies
Why hope for that? If it had a negative impact the changed landscape would be a shrinking of the game industry.
By having to go through one source even if its free makes them responsible for the content. Quick example: Muhammad model part of a religious model series free. Do you really think Epic will want to be linked to that? Say a famous celebrity whose agent is always chasing image rights/payment. Wasn[t there even something on here for awhile with not allowing Marvel characters? In short the free area would have to be regulated as well.
Maybe it should shrink to become sustainble? How many good app games are lost in the mobile stores because of everyone and their brother releasing some sort of f2p.
Getting OT, but Justin my opinion is 180 of yours.
That's because you're applying the AAA mindset to f2p games, you don't have to be a blockbuster hit to make a sustainable profit. I've been working in the f2p market for about 4 years now.
Right on! This will have alot of potential to grow and evolve into something awesome!
whoa.
to think I could actually make money from modding a game this time around, I'm all for it.
I just hope the cry for basing it in UT 2004 instead of UT 99 will be heard.
UT 99 was ground breaking and all, but I feel they really nailed the weight and agility in UT 2004, even if dodging was a bit finnicky the movement was smooth, didn't feel floaty and most of all allowed great manoeuvrability without becoming all Quake like.
Add to that the Adrenaline system, which was a bit flawed in execution but honestly a great idea and the brilliant use of actual colours to make levels and characters stand out yet remain grounded in a futuristic reality.
I personally also prefer nearly all the weapon iterations as they appeared in UT 2004, except the minigun and the enforcer (both better in UT99 imo)
Let's also not forget how well UT99 and 2003/2004 handled it's singleplayer. Sure it was just a series of death matches, but the little bits like assembling your own team, grudge matches and getting money to pay for new members, was just the right amount of choice for what was essentially bot matches.
Also intros like this really reinforced that this WAS a Tournament,
[ame="
and I don't see how they couldn't build even further upon that.
If someone releases a mod that does the same thing or even slightly better than a another mod being charged for, does Epic have to stop allowing the free version? Better yet the above with a twist. A free version existed first, then someone else makes a paid version thats slightly better. Does the free version guy have as much sway to demand the paid removal?
I'd say look at the Unity asset store. There are assets and things up there for free and for sale. As long as there isn't copyright infringement going on it should be fine.
If done well though, this could be an amazing movement for Epic. It's too early to tell how good or bad this move is, in my opinion.
marketplaces typically take 25-30%
Which limits the mods. Cmon, with Q3 and UT2k4, didn't you once download a model of something from another property? A Mario, Homer S., whatever. By having to go through Epic, its changing the whole dynamic of what UT was about.
nah, not really, never got the appeal of that. I mostly spent the time making my own stuff. Also nothing is stopping people from making their own mods, just don't put them on the store, it's like you're desperately hunting for something to be upset about. They could not do this and we could just go back to a non-existent mod scene.
Did you fail to see that everything is going through them whether its for sale or not? So no, it wont have the freedom to do what some would want. I already gave examples. Its like your desperately trying to ignore my point.
For a non existent mod scene there has been plenty done with say Skyrim. Torchlight 2 has a workshop as well.
So they have information somewhere I missed that said you can only distribute mods through their marketplace?
I was modding in the 90's when it seemed like a new genre was getting created on a monthly basis, the mod scene now doesn't really feel that vibrant - just graphical polish mods, textures and model swaps.
Anyway, my comment about copyright wasn't in reference to someone making a Homer Simpson model, I was replying to your hypothetical situation. If the mod cloner isn't violating the original mod's copyright I don't see an issue although I'm sure the community will raise hell if past experiences are any indication.
Since this haven't been all ironed out yet i guess we will have to wait how Epic actually pulls this off. Then it just depends on the ToS Epic sets up, if they make their ToS so that a regular non paid upload is in the creators liability and i guess you can upload anything you want, and most company's wont mind fan art unless its shitty Marvel.
Other then that i really think they will still allow drag and drop mods as always, so people can go wacky or if they just don't want to use the marketplace.
IP holders usually don't care about textures and models - BUT I think it's because they aren't really aware of them. If it's a mod, you're going to get shut down eventually just look at the last 17 years of modding history.
Those mods who had been shut down where useally a bit more then just a player model though more like total conversations doing a copy of Chrono Trigger for example, which just came into my mind, yeah true but that always have been a problem even way before Epic considered doing a martplace for UT. Also where its wise to ask for permission first Capcom for example was always very freindly to modders who even made or tried games on their ideas.
It's just plain better to steer clear of other people's IPs.
yeah, honestly that confused the hell out of me. Free to play... still means free to me. I guess they're just trying to distance from microtransactions/pay to win. Was still super confusing how they kept repeating it lol. Because it is still free to play, technically...
Really like the idea though, I'm glad Epic is interested in actually innovating instead of finding new ways to rip people off like other companies (cough, founder's pack).
I like that idea. I think I'd just prefer to see teams doing up map & character combos rather than an entire faction everyone has to adhere to.
Some IPs can be more unforgiving thena others. Long ago I inquired with the IP holder of Bob from Church of the Subgenius : for a UT4 model. "No" was the firm response. You would almost think they believe its a real religion..
Kraft, since sites that only link to illegal content from members can be judicially attacked as a whole versus the members. A site that actually hosts said content would seem to me to be even more at risk.
True, well in any case, i think if the epic guys would be down, and the pc mods are down. this should happen
The early 90's WAS mainly texture swaps, then we mostly got different fps games since the mods were for fps games.
It was after the 90's we got the huge genre-defining mods.
counterstrike in 1999
dota in 2003
dayz in 2012
As to the new unreal tournament we will have the most absolute version of the unreal engine, and we'll have access to the entire source, while we're too busy being sad that we can't infringe on IP's we forget we had our own imagination.
I want this.
I think polycount would be all over something like that.
One map I cannot for the life of me find though was one set underwater, it was mostly custom meshes, included a kickass shark, sci fi setting and nice use of the colour red, if that rings anyones bells please do tell!
Would be fun to set up some list of PC contributions to UT, from 99 to 3
YES!
not sure but could be that one maybe?
cbp2-tydal
That level was awesome I remember when he was making it when were at CBP and it was very well made and thought out.
I have to see what the old CBP people are doing I would love to make a map or two.
If you have no idea what I am talking about. The community bonus pack or CBP was a team making map packs and mods. This team ended up becoming pretty well know in the unreal community as a pack that was almost retail quality content or better.
http://cbp.beyondunreal.com/
list of the people who worked on maps really in the ut community this is kind of the top people.
http://cbp.beyondunreal.com/team
...and yes, we are talking about the possibility of a CBP4 right now
Also I just downloaded all CBP packs released so far, absolutely amazing content. Just amazing how much work went into all aspects of these maps and characters. Sad to realize paid for DLC these days is usually 3 maps or so, oh well, hope UT4 brings back everything good
I guess everyone thinks their generation is the greatest :P. I concede on my stance that mods died post quake but don't deny the influence of Team Fortress, Threewave CTF, Zeusbots and others. Not fps games for Quake: Quake Rally, Air Quake, Quake Battle Chess. It's been a while but I worked on a mod called Archmage and I do believe it had a third person camera.
[ame="
According to some community statistics (possibly released by Valve, I don't remember) there was something like 60% of CSGO players are unable to maintain 60 FPS on the game, and that is pretty shocking since the PC requirements of CSGO are pretty low compared to most modern games.
I'd hope that UT4 will have some kind of ultra low graphical settings that will help the game run better on lower spec machines. I love everything I've seen so far though, and the dedication of the community is quite inspiring!