Home Technical Talk

The future of Game Engines??

polycounter lvl 10
Offline / Send Message
melviso polycounter lvl 10
I am currently considering using game engines for architectural viz and cinematics and I intend to concentrate on using them rather than renderers like Vray,mental ray as I am of the opinion that in a matter of years game engine graphically will be almost close to what these renderers can achieve.The graphics of the next generation engines like UE4,Cryengine and Snowdrop already have graphic capabilities that look almost photorealistic.
I am thinking of going with Unreal engine 4 as I feel its the most popular of the game engines out there.Their $19 per month is a good deal but I am wondering if its fair that one should pay 5% royalties though they won't be requesting royalties for cinematics or videos rendered with the engine.I understand they are releasing the source code as well.
Cryengine on the other hand isn't asking for royalties with a lower subscription fee and the graphics looks really good.I can't say if its better tha UE4 at the moment due to it not being used that much.
Snowdrop engine-There isn't much info about it at the moment.I must say it looks breathtakingly good with the node based system and pbr rendering.
Unity-I am not even considering it.With UE and Cryengine's subscription.Unity isn't attractive or popular in archviz or mainstream games.Graphically it isn't on par with the others.

Replies

  • Saf
    Offline / Send Message
    Saf polycounter lvl 8
    Do not underestimate Unity, the prices will certainly fall.
    Most mobile and indie games are made on unity.
    check this out https://www.marmoset.co/skyshop
    Plus 5 version will be released soon:
    [ame=" 5 Feature Preview - YouTube[/ame]
    I hope that prices will fall...
  • Froyok
    Offline / Send Message
    Froyok Polycount Sponsor
    I doubt the Snowdrop engine will be open to the public, it's probably something similar to the Frosbite engine. Internal use only.

    Between Unity and UE4 I would say it depends of the type of architecture you plan : dynamic lighting or not ? UE4 has a great GI but is static, while Unity 5 is powered by enlighten and support then dynamic GI.
  • oglu
    Offline / Send Message
    oglu polycount lvl 666
    u4 is also using enlighten same as frostbite... and how "realtime" the stuff in unity5 is has to be shown....
    http://www.geomerics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Enlighten_Brochure.pdf


    think only the cryengine has a real gi solution...
    lionhead has implemented a smilar solution in unreal...
    http://www.lionhead.com/blog/2014/april/17/dynamic-global-illumination-in-fable-legends/
  • Froyok
    Offline / Send Message
    Froyok Polycount Sponsor
    oglu wrote: »
    u4 is also using enlighten same as frostbite... and how "realtime" the stuff in unity5 is has to be shown....
    http://www.geomerics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Enlighten_Brochure.pdf
    With UE4 you have to pay to integrate enlighten, while in Unity 5 it's in by default.
  • Neox
    Online / Send Message
    Neox polycount lvl 666
    oglu wrote: »
    u4 is also using enlighten same as frostbite... and how "realtime" the stuff in unity5 is has to be shown....
    http://www.geomerics.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Enlighten_Brochure.pdf


    think only the cryengine has a real gi solution...
    lionhead has implemented a smilar solution in unreal...
    http://www.lionhead.com/blog/2014/april/17/dynamic-global-illumination-in-fable-legends/

    wrong and wrong, but maybe my info is outdated :)

    unless crytek changed something the artists also have to work a lot to make gi working in "realtime"

    and unreal may support enlighten, thats true but we are talking about some heavy licensing fees here, and that almost 200k of license fees.
  • melviso
    Offline / Send Message
    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    @Froyok Really?Do u have any proof or link that this is the case cause it would be weird or out of place for Epic to do this considering they make more money than Unity imo.If this is the case,are u saying it doesn't come with the 19 months per month download or u have to pay extra?I wonder how much.
  • Neox
    Online / Send Message
    Neox polycount lvl 666
    melviso wrote: »
    @Froyok Really?Do u have any proof or link that this is the case cause it would be weird or out of place for Epic to do this considering they make more money than Unity imo.If this is the case,are u saying it doesn't come with the 19 months per month download or u have to pay extra?I wonder how much.

    enlighten needs to be licensed seperately for unreal4, i posted what it roughly costs from what i heard from various productions i know people using it.
  • AlecMoody
    Offline / Send Message
    AlecMoody ngon master
    Why do you assume Epic makes more money than Unity? Unity is huge. Unity 5 has enlighten built in- Check out the feature trailer:
    [ame=" Unity 5 Feature Preview Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

    IMO the graphical features listed for an engine are a lot less important than the workflow. At this point production efficiency is a bigger challenge for game development than processing power and between Unity and Unreal I would pick Unity for most projects.
  • melviso
    Offline / Send Message
    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    But Unity is like $1,500.
    UE4- $19 per month
    CE-$9 per month
    Btw,I have been wondering if CE allows u to continue using the downloaded version if u decide to cancel ur subscription or u need to continue paying every month?
  • [Deleted User]
    Offline / Send Message
    [Deleted User] polycounter lvl 3
    melviso wrote: »
    But Unity is like $1,500.
    UE4- $19 per month
    CE-$9 per month
    Btw,I have been wondering if CE allows u to continue using the downloaded version if u decide to cancel ur subscription or u need to continue paying every month?

    For UE4 you need to pay separatelly for possibility to output to consoles. You need to share 5% of you income from released material till the end of the world.

    With Unity you pay 1500$ and that's it. You can pay additionally for iOS/Andrid support (1500$ each) but it's still less than paying couple thousands/millions each year for UE4. Think about Minecraft, they made more than 300$ millions last year, so the real price for UE4 for them would be 15$ million (of course Minecraft would have to be made in UE4 first :D ).

    Not that it should stop you, because having source code have its pluses, but like some superhero once said - "With great source code comes great responsibility" - or something like that :D.

    Oh, and I'm also preparing to use UE4 for visualization, cinematics. I'm just waiting till they iron out all the child age problems + consumer version of Oculus and Myo.
  • Obscura
  • melviso
    Offline / Send Message
    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    @Obscura
    Thanks for that post man.From the thread u popsted,it's seems enlighten isn't very convenient to use after all.
    Well..one can manage this until UE comes up with their own realtime GI.Someone in the thread mention Cryengine has had GI for years?

    Can anyone pls confirm if u buy a month's subscription of CE,if u cancel it after downloading.Can one use that version for as long as u want like UE or u have to pay monthly to continue using it?
  • Obscura
    Offline / Send Message
    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    As far as I know, you can continue using it, you just won't get updates (nor support I think). Also, the free version is still available, it just also won't get updates.

    But to make thing sure, you can take a look at this thread:
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132609
  • Froyok
    Offline / Send Message
    Froyok Polycount Sponsor
    Just to be clear, here is an official word from Epic about enlighten :
    Enlighten is not included in Unreal Engine 4 and Epic has not licensed it. Geomerics is an Integrated Partner which means they have created an official integration of Enlighten for Unreal Engine 4, but they maintain and license it separately.
    https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/12764/is-the-enlighten-middleware-included-with-all-lice.html


    I wouldn't rely on the LPV currently in UE4 to decide your engine choice. The feature is far from being usable at the moment. It works in Fable because they use open environments with heavy vegetation, but in architectural environment with thin walls you will see a lot of leaks.
  • Skamander
    Offline / Send Message
    Skamander triangle
    melviso wrote: »
    [...]
    Someone in the thread mention Cryengine has had GI for years?

    Can anyone pls confirm if u buy a month's subscription of CE,if u cancel it after downloading.Can one use that version for as long as u want like UE or u have to pay monthly to continue using it?
    Yeah, for the sun/moon they have GI since Crysis 2 (Cryengine 3).

    It's not known yet. They (Crytek) will release more infos when the release of the monthly subscription starts in early may. But as was said already they will still offer the FreeSDK (without updates in the future) on top of that.
  • CrazyButcher
  • Nox
    Offline / Send Message
    Nox polycounter lvl 5
    UE4,Cryengine and Snowdrop already have graphic capabilities that look almost photorealistic.
    Not even close.
  • melviso
    Offline / Send Message
    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    Nox wrote: »
    Not even close.
    says who?I would say its pretty close.With the next generation release of game engines in the next 5 or six years.I am sure it would be exactly photorealistic.

    [ame=" Engine 4 | Photorealistic Rendering Demo | GTX 780 Ti - YouTube[/ame]

    This vid is very close to Vray imo.Very.
  • Neox
    Online / Send Message
    Neox polycount lvl 666
    sorry man, but no - we are still far from vray, there are reasons why rendered images take so long to render.
  • passerby
    Offline / Send Message
    passerby polycounter lvl 10
    Still really far away from what vray and mental ray can do. It shows in the light bounces and scattering.
  • melviso
    Offline / Send Message
    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    You guys may have a point but must it be very photorealistic?If it looks good,thats all that matters especially for arch viz.We are getting there.I see a lot of people using game engines for renders rather than renderfarms especially with this generation of game engines.The graphics seem good enough especially for cinematics that used to be pre-rendered.

    [ame=" Legends Official Trailer - YouTube[/ame]
    I don't know if this was rendered with the UE4 but I suspect Enlighten was used?Looks really good as well.

    Brigade 3.0 is alreadly getting close.I can't help wondering how much its gonna cost when they finally remove the noise and release the engine.They are using two GTX titans.Wonder if they make it three.

    [ame=" 3.0 preview - Real-time path tracing - YouTube[/ame]
  • rube
    Offline / Send Message
    rube polycounter lvl 14
    The Fable trailer was made by Axis Animation, I assume it's pre-rendered. Could be wrong though.
  • CrazyButcher
    Offline / Send Message
    CrazyButcher polycounter lvl 16
    melviso wrote: »
    I can't help wondering how much its gonna cost when they finally remove the noise and release the engine.

    you can't just remove the noise. If you would things would be < 1 fps again ;)

    path-tracing works by shooting rays from eye and each frame randomly jitter them as they hit a surface (the reflection required for global illumination). The results of those many iterations (many paths across the scene) are accumulated to refine the results.

    Things like caustics and specular reflections take a long time to refine, cause you more or less don't know where the interesting spots are in your world, and they can be relatively small (low chance to hit) but bright (important not to ignore or blur over).

    As Neox mentions, there is good reasons companies like vray can live from just squeezing the most out of making this process fast. The resolutions in the real-time demos are often also much lower than rasterized games are.

    Here is a nice comparison of a 2 vs 260 GPU system
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2WyZQX7z8Jo

    Though indeed the image quality of all the hacks and tricks that games use to get real-time has improved, but ultimately a rather low-res/blurred simplified solution. Though in the end, who cares, if it looks cool and suits the game ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.