Catwoman
greentooth
FINAL UPDATE
Hello everybody working i'm making a character model of catwoman, taking stanley artgerm lau's justice magazine take on catwoman and combining that with the purple catwoman from the 90's. So heres my reference sheet for the costume.
Hello everybody working i'm making a character model of catwoman, taking stanley artgerm lau's justice magazine take on catwoman and combining that with the purple catwoman from the 90's. So heres my reference sheet for the costume.
Replies
Everything looks good to me right now.
Even though shes not screaming seyfreid, i can definitely see her in forms.
I think the neck is a wee bit too long however. Would two heads hit the sternum?
Remember to put the back view next time as well.
Edrice - thx for the crit, ya the waist i had some trouble with and definately gotta fix the head size and re align everything
FourtyNights - ya the arms turned out weird for me so i definately gotta fix that, thanks.
So im going to focus on her face cause i really wanna get the likeness down. i'm having trouble with likeness sculpts if anyone has tips on that or anatomy pls help i could really use it. The textures i added were quick to see what the face would look with color.
so heres a update
Perspective on
Perspective off
Praetor187- Thanks alot man, ya the glabella area and brow ive been struggling with gonna try and soften it, im still wondering if i should sculpt the eyebrows.
So I took a break from the face to work on all the other stuff, I feel like a break from the face will help. So ive tweaked the body too fix some anatomy problems and started adding more of her accesories so heres what i got so far.
Im going to be giving another update tonight im going to finish the boots and gloves and backpack. So what do u guys think?
Head and arms seem a tad small from the looks of it and neck possibly too long. Also, in your current pose (shoulders back, chest up) I think the chest and naval is a bit low as well.
The main reason I think the scale is off in these places is if compare the scale of the head to the hips, and the the arms to the legs. Its very minor, but I think you should play around with it a bit more.
Here is ref for you: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1509135&d=1340972735
From an outsiders perspective her proportions and silhouette don't seem to be sleek and cat-like enough? Just my opinion but I feel maybe her silhouette could be pushed a little more..? Maybe wider hips and narrower waist.
Picking really... but wanted to say good job
I did a quick paintover of the changes I would make.
also her eyes are too big.
her arms are a too long aswell.
looks very promising though, good luck!
i would make her boobs a bit smaller too, but i gues thats just personal taste.
I agree about the waist being thinner. I think if you made it thinner with wider hips she will look alot more feminine; as expected from catwoman i guess.
Btw, i tried studying your face and what if any changes if made would make her look more like amanda, and i think its not the features themselves but their proportions that could make a big difference. E.g. the distance between her lips and chin should be less etc
p.s
Fuiosg, hes reworking his anatomy bits, he posted catwomn in her suit a few posts up.
You should check out a catwoman model by fellow polycounter Jaco
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xeOzo0Axgj0/TLu4TiSpbfI/AAAAAAAABAU/K59ycIM2HSE/s1600/img-jh_catwoman_02.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lamt6fWVET1qbuewbo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAI6WLSGT7Y3ET7ADQ&Expires=1399025663&Signature=Q%2F5AQO5l4aI1MAMN62kkPepegWA%3D#_=_
Maverickhornet - Thx man, Ya the waist ive been having trouble with, but i worked on it for this update.
Edrice - Thx for the paintover ya i fixed the waist for this update, I'm basing it off of artgerms designs but im really going for realistic proportions.
Goeddy - Hey man thx, Ya i fixed the arms and waist for this update so give it a peak below, as for the eyes im going to go back and fix the face up when im done the body. The boobs i made a bit smaller as well.
Khozzy - hey man ThX! ya im still designing the gloves and claws i definately want to make em stand out.
Fuiosg - Its her body underneath the clothes im still working the proportions.
Butt sahib - hey man , ya i fixed the waist and hips below give it a look and see if it helped, ya the lips is a little too high, I kind of notice that amandas face is like that but i think i over did it, but im going to finish the body first then go back to the face. ya jaco's catwoman is inspiring i hope mine turns out remotely close to as awesom as his
ALRIGHT UPDATE TIME
So ive fixed the wiast a bit im hoping it helped, but the big thing for this update is the blet and the arm sleeves, i did the folds for the arms which are supposed to be leather gloves and I was using this as reference:
So the arms i worked on and the belt, im going to be posting another update tonight finishing the gloves and the belts, so here is the update.
Boots seams and folds
gloves claws
backpack
bodysuit seams and folds
Hair
Fix up face
Then after that i'll move onto retopo, I'm hoping to have the boots and glove/claws done tonight hiopefully some more as well. Pls crit its greatly appreciated
Stevston89 - thx dude, ya the hands im really struggling with getting them to look right and i agree about the arms.
Does anyone know any good tips for hands? or reference?
Looking good tho! The folds on the gloves are pretty awesome.
This is one of my favorites ( linking because the image is way too big)
http://www.zanedevon.com/images/blog/MaleHandReference.jpg
You want to get a natural relaxed pose something like this:
Here is a female hand ref as well:
Here is a quick paintover I did. Jaco's model closely matches the concepts you have here, but I wasn't sure if you are going for more realistic proportions. I think I did somewhere inbetween the two. Here it is, I hope this helps!
edit... note, see how if you make the joints proportions smaller it makes her look a lot more muscular/fit. Really keep that in mind as you work on this. I think from the front what you have in most areas is excellent, but just needs some small tweaks. From the side, I think the changes need to be pretty extreme. Also, one last thing. I expected her arms to be more bent from the side view, because basically if they are bent then straightened out they will be longer. When I looked at the side view however they appeared almost straight. Thats one of the main reasons I bent them like that from the side. also I think it looks a bit more natural.
stevston89 - Thanks for the reference
BradMyers82 - Thanks for the crit man
Okay I know its been awhile unfortunately A bunch of stuff has happened last week so i couldnt get as much done, But im aiming to finish this by the end of the week. So the big things ive done for this update are the boots and hands and rearranging the accesories a bit so look below and let me know wat u think
And also the thing on her shoulder will be her hair Im just debating how i should do the hair, Entirely with hair cards or sculpt it?
So i've been working very hard on the hands and gloves because ive needed alot of work on that, so here is a close up of the gloves. I still have to add the folds and seams on the gloves alot of the fabric detail will be added in NDO.
The hands look better, but they are still way to small. Also the arms still feel too thin. Here is a quick paintover with some adjustments to the hands and arms:
So I'm finnally done the sculpt, Im going to retopo the sculpt and then before making the textures I'm going to go back to the sculpt and make sure everything is finished and then img oing to go in and finish this, I've learned alot sculpting this this will be the first character I finish so i'm taking my time and trying to learn as much as I can, thx for all the crits.
Also the hair sculpt is rough, im still trying to figure out how to do the hair.
So here is my Final sculpt what do u guys think?
Perspective ON
What kind of material is her suit made from? I see no material definition other than seams.
The leather can also use some work, especially with defining the shape of the edges where it is laced together. There should be a bit of waviness to it or something from the tension in the lace, even if it's fairly loose. Also note how folds are changed as they transition from one side of a seam to the other. Maybe this pic will help as it has a nice combination of loose and tight folds. Leather is very tricky... Pay close attention to how it conforms to the body as well.
Keep it up!
My only gripe would be her butt seems a tad flat? Like it just needs filling out a little bit more... few more squats perhaps? :P. Maybe make it a little fuller.
Other than that she is flawless dude.
maverickhornet - Thanks man ! means alot hearing that. Ya the but and hips ive been having trouble figuring out i'll definately fix that up, lol it will be fun looking at reference photos for that ;P
BradMyers82 - Thanks man
Looking beautiful man. Cant wait to see black leather reflections on this babe.
Looking forward to the final high res with the folds etc
As for the repeating surface detail on her thigh etc i would use noisemaker in zbrush.I would use NDO for inorganics since organic uvs are sometimes not aligned straight and that can lead to difficult projections and results.
Makkon - Thanks man greatly appreciated, Ya the reason why I went for the heels was because I liked how the dark knight rises catwoman and arkham city catwoman had them, Ive been thinking about whter or not to keep them or shorten them a bit we'll have to see. Very good point about the eye i'll jump on that
although for the pattern i would not use noisemaker unless you are using a ridiculous texture/mesh resolution.
if you want to get this realtime, the best way to do it would be assigning a different material with a detail normal map (like they did in arkham city)
So obviously its been awhile since I posted for Catwoman, Dont worry havent given up just ran into alot of problems with certain things I had to fix, Also I've been venturing into new territory in terms of modelling so I'm taking my time doing my research and just polishing her out. Its mainy the retopology and that took a bit and I unfortunately got a little frustrated and had to step away for a few days which Is why this is taking really long.
Also lroy and goeddy thanks for the advice and thanks lroy for the tutorial you messaged me very helpful, only problem was Zbrush kept crashing when I tried getting it to a subdiv high enough to make it look good, I did a test doing it in photoshop and it worked well so I'm probably going to have to do it that way.
Ok so here is the final sculpt, Also In the first picture I was wondering if you guys can tell me whether or not the iris and pupil look properly placed
And here is the topology i got so far ive been having alot of trouble with this especially the boots because of how many fold their are, Also its a lot higher res that it will be Im just trying to focus on the good topology right now. ALSO WIP
So what do you guys think about the topology.Also I have a few questions that if anyone can answer would be real helpful:
1. Whats the best way to sculpt a eyeball and model and texture a In game eyeball?
2. Seeing the hairstyle above whats the best way to go about making haircards for it?
3. Whats a good nextgen tri count for her?
Thanks everyone for the crits and nice comments too
I would say the iris definitely looks too big. Pupil might be fine though.
The topology isn't bad, but polys are too dense towards the bottom of the legs and feet. It's really not the main part of the character and doesn't need as much detail. I know it's because of all the folds, but a lot of them you could leave to the normal map, only modelling in key areas for the silhouette. Take some of those edge loops and use them around the shoulders as they are looking a bit blocky (especially when in an arms down pose and the surface area will be stretched more).
In general you might want to re-visit the topology around the shoulders. It's one of the hardest areas to get right, especially with the higher poly low poly's! It's a mistake I've made in the past to just use the "tube" topology in this area. You need to maintain and contain the structure of the shoulder. Might be worth trying this:
from http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115549&page=2
OR
As for your questions:
1. You don't really have to sculpt it, but some detail in the iris can look better. Take a look at these tutorials for a good setup:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1965457&postcount=274
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1970858&postcount=476
2. Hair is tough no matter how you handle it. It takes a lot of time to get just right. I would look into Insert Mesh brushes in zbrush for hair I will post a video and link to a brush below. Here a some links to help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-TsteJQGg8
http://vimeo.com/76122872
IMM Brush:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/udlwdhrqku34irg/IMM%20HairBrush_JonathanNasconeArt.zip
3. It really depends on the usage. If it's for a 3rd person sort of game I probably wouldn't go over 30 - 40k tris. First person games I wouldn't go over 60k tris. This is just what I would do personally. For most games you will get diminishing returns after 60k tris unless you are doing supper close up shots.
@ Fomori - Those are not great. Sure they may have the muscles in mind, but skinning that would be a major pain. If you handed that topology to a rigger they would hit you.
I disagree dude. I've tried skinning both and I would prefer the option to retain the bulge of the shoulder. Skinning a tubed shoulder that's dense in polys is a pain in my opinion. But granted retaining the bulge of the shoulder is more important for muscular arms.
If you're up to it Kend you should test both! Either way, you need more edge loops as the polygon stepping is really obvious there.
I can understand your frustration surrounding retopology, i myself am in the process of retopologising a model of mine and its been a total pain in the ass honestly:poly142:. By far the most redundant process in character making, followed by UVing
The model looks terrific. The face looks awesome aswell.
I agree with Jon about the folds on the shoes/leg thing. You cant really tell if the cloth is tight or loose. I remember it as
Tight=more horizontal +Sharper folds
Loose=more vertical +Blobbier folds
Also, you could have accentuated the smooth-compression-smooth transition more. That is, more compact folds at the knee and the ankles with smooth areas inbetween. I can see its there but if you accentuated it further i believe it would have looked better.
But youre done now and dont have to go back. Just suggesting some things for future projects
The lowres looks great but yes,
a- you need more loops for the shoulder for better deformation.
b- The polygons on the shoes seem too much. Just go in and cut it in half. Dont be scared about using triangles.
I really like how you are doing your research. I suggest you go check out and spend alot of time in the polycount wiki. Eric really has made the wiki into a bible for all things related to gameart etc. Its an excellent resource.
Your questions (which are hard to read in red lol)
1.Making good eyeballs is pretty crucial to sell a character. Whats the best way? whichever way suits you the best.
You could possibly do it like how i would. Model a sphere into a sclera+iris component and put a sphere ontop of that sphere with a bump in the middle for the cornea. The cornea would be transparent and reflect the environment. The inner sphere wil get the iris and scleral textures.
Check this out (go down to the eye section)
2.Again, check this page out.
3.As mentioned above, the polycounts vary. I read on the Blood/Petrol rules that nextgen characters have tricounts upwards of 100k. Bottom line is if this is your portfolio piece it has just to convey the fact that you know how to use your triangles.
Your polycount seems ok atm
Good luck man!
Looking forward to your updates
P>S
As far as the shoulder topology issue is concerned. Again, the polycount wiki to the rescue!
Jon mills - thanks man
stevston89 - Thanks man
butt_sahib - Thanks man
Iciban - Thanks man
REFERENCE
WIP
Which do you think is better? THX FOR THE CRITS
Also I didnt get any replys on my last post for the boots, If anyone could drop a quick crit on the direction of the boots that be great. Also more questions.
1. When Uv unwrapping characters How should I split up the texture maps, Ive seen alot of characters use a separate map for the head and then the body, dod they do that by separating the meshes or different Uv sets? Or wat is the most effective way.
2. Whats a good way to paint hair cards?
on to your questions:
1. It really depends, but for me I wouldn't separate the head for this model. Usually the reason to separate the head is to give it more resolution. Since most of your head is a mask I you really don't need the extra resolution for the mask. You are going to need a separate mesh if you have two textures AFAIK. Most engines need seperate meshes so you can apply the two different materials.
2. First for the the hair you are going to need 4 - 5 times more hair strips than you have. Second it's really important to make sure your strips are unwrapped in straight flat rectangles and that they are all at the same angle ( I would make sure they are at a 90 degree angle). It makes it easier to texture and easier to work with anistropic shaders.
Also just to echo what steveston said, that topology on the eye needs to be fixed.
For hair, there's tonnes of good info on the wiki here (http://wiki.polycount.com/HairTechnique) but my favourite tutorial is this one - http://www.paultosca.com/varga_hair.html
Looking forward to seeing more of this!