According to the other thread, $50 a month.
So, not good.
Being a monthly fee also means it won't get any of the notorious Steam sales.
I would have thought that Steam's ability to prevent anyone from pirating it would've lent the system very well to a cheap perpetual license.
But, that's Autodesk.
Depends if you have the time to devote to learning Blender and how much that time is worth to you.
Maybe its just me but I picked up blender very easily meanwhile I have tried to learn max and so far I have spent lots of time for little results with max because I forget things meanwhile with blender learning was fast and easy
Yeah, its not worth it, i wonder why someone would choose to pay $795 or $600/year instead of using blender.
They should aim for the small teams too, only big teams with a good investment would be able to afford this for too long.
Probably because of the prejudice that plagues Blender.
Also, there's the whole "I Will have to use 3DS/Maya in a studio anyway".
To be honest, I Find modeling in Blender super fast and super intuitive. Hotkeys are the shizzle, but I guess you got to adapt. With Blender's constant updating, it is getting better on a monthly basis. Addons like Quicktools and MeshLint are so great.
The only area that I find lacking, is the exporting, which Can be a bit of a pain.
Overall, Blender is so much fun to model in, and is getting slicker and slicker.
Well, I tried to learn Maya from 2007-2013.
First in 2007 from modeling perspective. It didn't click with me.
Than in 2010, from simulation perspective. It didn't click with me.
Lastly in 2012-2013 with Maya 2014 they added C#, so I figured that there is no better way for me now than learn it than from API perspective with my first and most loved programming language. IT. DID.NOT.CLICK.WITH.ME.
Maybe it's because my first ever program that I learned was Houdini, I don't know, I don't care. I think that seven years of giving a chance proofs that this program is not for me.
Blender on the other hand... I picked it up in one day.
Has anybody tried transitioning from Max to Blender? My student license is going to expire soon and so chances are I'll have to pick up a cheaper/free 3D package to replace Max for a while, which sucks because Max is the only package I've really dedicated time to learning.
I haven't tried Blender since I found out about the whole left click/right click thing :P Maybe if I give it another shot I won't feel like throwing my monitor out of the window again. It seems like that's the thing, the more you know about other programs the more obscure & weird Blender feels.
I found knowing more about other programs helped me learn blender, then I know what I want and can change the hotkeys and navigation to fit that
Went from max to blender myself.
I've used Blender since about version 2.48. I decided to give Maya a try, since people around here seem to have good things to say about it. But then I tried to pan the viewport and the cylinder I put down started moving around, and then I tried to place the 3D cursor and I got a weird box that always selects vertices on the other side of the mesh even if I have it shaded, and then I tried to select a vertex and this weird flower menu thing popped up.
I haven't tried Blender since I found out about the whole left click/right click thing :P Maybe if I give it another shot I won't feel like throwing my monitor out of the window again. It seems like that's the thing, the more you know about other programs the more obscure & weird Blender feels.
Once you get used to it, it is surprisingly efficient. The only draw back is that you will start getting a little bit confused when you open up other 3D viewers. All of a sudden, the more traditional methods will look a little bit off.
That being said, you can now swap to 3DS/Maya control scheme via the preference menu. Pretty nifty.
I haven't tried Blender since I found out about the whole left click/right click thing :P Maybe if I give it another shot I won't feel like throwing my monitor out of the window again. It seems like that's the thing, the more you know about other programs the more obscure & weird Blender feels.
Yeah you can switch the left click/right click stuff in the preferences. I found out about it late so I just got used to the right clicking stuff and I actually enjoy it. I was able to get used to Blender pretty fast personally, but I switched between maya, max and lightwave over time so I just sort of got used to differences in interface.
Interface aside though, I feel like the tools are very familiar when it comes to actually modeling and rigging stuff.
But Blender's node graph doesn't cold a candle to Maya's viewport shader stuff and ShaderFX which may be a big factor to people. The node graph in blender could probably work for making nice useful shaders for PBR and stuff, but it would definately take a lot of work to get to that point. (I have started working on trying to make one though.)
I haven't tried Blender since I found out about the whole left click/right click thing :P Maybe if I give it another shot I won't feel like throwing my monitor out of the window again. It seems like that's the thing, the more you know about other programs the more obscure & weird Blender feels.
But you know that you can change the left/right click? Blender is surprisingly flexible.
A lot people launch Blender, it does not work like they are used to, bam they close it and then have a opinion like yours :poly142:
I won't blame you for that, nor would I try to convince people to use Blender. Personally, I tried Maya several times. And no matter what, the modeling workflow feels inefficient and clunky to me.
I know a lot artists here work in the industry, or want to work in the industry. There is no real alternative for Autodesk products then.
But the indie market is another story. Blender and Modo are really popular there. Autodesk knows that and thus tries to break into that profitable market too, with stuff like Steam, or Maya LT.
But I really don't understand the benefits for the Steam version. It's the same price, as in the official AD store. Usually the Steam versions of certain software is cheaper.
Well, I have been using Maya LT for a while now... For me, Ill be switching to steam version for sure. I already love what LT did for me in 2104 (assets for 2 games and starting my own venture now) and cant wait to use all the new things 2015 offers. To me, all I need is a solid modeler and though I am a max guy at heart I do love what MayaLT offers and the budget that it offers it at. I don't see a problem with 50$ a month personally. Its a cost of doing business kind of thing... keep me updated and let me forget about "upgrades" and im happy. I do find it funny that people bitch about 50$ a month for a program that you use for work but they will spend 3$ for a water, 140$ on a cell phone bill etc. So long as I cover the costs, I don't mind paying the people who make my work possible.
As for the blender part of this conversation, its a good tool, but for games, MayaLT kicks its ass every which way from Sunday. Realtime shaders in viewport via Viewport2.0 and shader FX would be enough, but the uv tools, baking tools and the speed of production also are a boon to MayaLT imho. Ive never built models faster and easier for games than with LT. The best part is I get to learn Maya for a fraction of the cost while being productive with it.
lol, does every commercial software thread have to turn into a Blender discussion?
Invariably the answer is yes! Usually with expletives towards anyone who chooses to pay for a class A application. For some reason people in the blender community believe that theirs is the only choice and anyone (including pixar i guess) is an idiot for not going to blender.
Personally, I have blender.... Its installed with the latest release right now. I use it for some things, but for the most part it remains a novelty app i launch for very case specific things (particle effects mostly). They certainly don't have to "sell" me (or anyone else) on it.
As a side note, I also like to be able to say I work with maya in business. People respect Maya and by default respect the users of it. Therefore I can usually charge more of a premium because I use Maya. Also there is wayyyyyy more work available to maya guys than blender guys.
I would love to see how many people would stay with blender if it came with a price-tag more in line with the industry norm.
I mean, I might be willing to pay around $20 a month for the full version Maya, but I have this thing about using artificially stripped-down software. It's just not me. With Blender I can do all the crazy rigs and Python scripting I want without having to pay for Maya, which currently costs way more money than I have.
Also, in case anyone's sarcasm detector is broken, my previous post in this thread was almost entirely sarcastic. I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone with my zeal for Blender.
Invariably the answer is yes! Usually with expletives towards anyone who chooses to pay for a class A application. For some reason people in the blender community believe that theirs is the only choice and anyone (including pixar i guess) is an idiot for not going to blender.
Personally, I have blender.... Its installed with the latest release right now. I use it for some things, but for the most part it remains a novelty app i launch for very case specific things (particle effects mostly). They certainly don't have to "sell" me (or anyone else) on it.
As a side note, I also like to be able to say I work with maya in business. People respect Maya and by default respect the users of it. Therefore I can usually charge more of a premium because I use Maya. Also there is wayyyyyy more work available to maya guys than blender guys.
I would love to see how many people would stay with blender if it came with a price-tag more in line with the industry norm.
To be honest, I Have a feeling that Blender would be way more popular as a payware.
The whole reason people "disrespect" Blender, is the fact that it is a freeware, and that the "Blender Community" is filled with complete beginners.
I really think that if you cannot afford a proper Maya/Max licesne, you are better off with Blender, than with a gimped version of Maya.
But at the end of the day, just use whatever feels best. 3D Suites are just tools, and limiting yourself to specific tools can be harmful.
That being said, I am also getting a little bit sick of subscriptions.
All of these subscription licences are really starting to add up :x
Ive never built models faster and easier for games than with LT. The best part is I get to learn Maya for a fraction of the cost while being productive with it.
In that case you really need to get your hands on Modo. No joke. If you think Maya is faster and easier, then you are missing out.
Modo + Substance Designer plugin and you will be a happy camper.
As for the blender part of this conversation, its a good tool, but for games, MayaLT kicks its ass every which way from Sunday.
Despite significantly weaker modeling and UV tools in Maya?
I starter using Maya few years ago while I was learning in best (then) Polish 3D animation school. I used this software for 2 and half year, including year as professional artist. Then Blender 2.63 with ngons came up and I starter learning it and I was blown away by its awesome capability. I never go back to Maya since then.
I agree that ShaderFX is nice and far superior than Blender's GLSL crap but in terms of modeling, mapping, and texturing Blender features are killing maya's archaic tools. I follow progress of both programs. Blender is rapidly getting more powerful while only thing that Maya get since 2011 version is some badly implemented tools from NEX plugin and fancy unfold algorithm that blender had 9 years ago.
Thing about Blender is that people didn't even know what features it have now comparing to other applications. They are stick to rumors about blender 2.49 or even older versions when Blender indeed was cheap and crappy piece of code. It was years ago and blender's year of development is equal to few years of development of Maya or Max. Really. Look for release notes from this programs. Like I do constantly.
Perhaps if NewTek/LW3DG would give a nod to game artists; they have continually ignored game artists for YEARS. Despite myself and a spartan few others "reminding" them of the large base of potential users available. You can't force someone to help themselves it seems.
Lightwave is also very unforgiving to new users - there's multiple duplicate tools all with non-standard or non-descriptive names, a sizable proportion of the functions and tools cannot be undone once used (!), there's irreversibly destructive hotkeys on unmodified keys, it's incredibly unstable and deals with smoothing and subdivision in non-standard ways.
I used it professionally for many years and never have I come across such a nightmarish tool to work in, despite the nice pricing and having some genuinely cool stuff tucked away inside. Not worth the pain, in my opinion, at least until they address some of the ten-year-old bugs they've not yet fixed.
To be honest, I Have a feeling that Blender would be way more popular as a payware.
The whole reason people "disrespect" Blender, is the fact that it is a freeware, and that the "Blender Community" is filled with complete beginners.
The freeware part is no issue with me and the game industry is fine with using free and open source software.
In that case you really need to get your hands on Modo. No joke. If you think Maya is faster and easier, then you are missing out.
Modo + Substance Designer plugin and you will be a happy camper.
Genuine question: what specifically is faster with Modo? Can you give examples? I come from a Maya background so that's what I'm comfortable with, but I'm always interested in cutting costs where I can.
With Maya, I've found that if another program has a feature I want, Maya can probably do it too if you know the software well enough. For example, Max's "make planar" function can be emulated via Maya's "transfer attributes" by setting vertex position to match a plane like a deformer. If you make a shelf button or script out of your operation, you essentially gain that tool. Maya also tends to be one of the first to gain program integration features (like GoZ) because it's so flexible.
Anyway, I hear a lot of great things about Modo, but it's all generalized. Can anyone give specifics?
Blender's getting more impressive every year. I think attempting large scale projects, like Sintel or Gooseberry, is serving them well because it fosters real development to get the job done, which later makes it into the official build.
Hey, say what you want about Milkshape but If there's some arcane game engine from 2002 and you need to get something into it, Milkshape's got that exporter.
Sure it is. In fact I have a warm fuzzy place in my heart and a full copy of lightwave sitting on my shelf, but, when it comes to game dev MayaLT is a much more robust package.
Here are the reasons I prefer MayaLT over anything else for games.
1. Viewport 2.0 - I hate cluttering up my workspace with Marmoset files, switching apps, managing all that junk just to see my damn model. now I don't have to. Marmoset is basically built in now... and its better than marmoset at what it does.
2. Turtle Baking - Really a good baking tool. Fast, easy and gives very acceptable results. Also, appreciate not having to clutter up my space with xNormal exports and all that.
3. 2015's new UV tools - Really good stuff in there. I especially like the new Distortion view. WOW, what a time saver that is.
4. Easy to Customize Interface - No toolkit is ever set up the way I want... ever. Luckily MayaLT makes its super easy to put the tools you use most right where you want them. The interface imho is by far the best. On downside is that the default arrangement really isnt the best. Some of the most critical tools (to me) are still buried in menus. But, its only about 10 minutes of work to get everything right where I want em.
5. Excellent FBX exporter - and has a fine OBJ exporter.
6. Great send-to features - for Unity and now there is even a specialty one for Dota2. Pretty cool stuff!
7. Price - I know its kinda silly... but... I have Always wanted to learn Maya. It was the only big app I never learned... mostly due to the fact that I couldn't attain a copy of it. Now I can because the price is more in line with what I can afford. Also, Im not a rich AAA+ developer with piles of money, im a simple indy dev trying to eek out a living making game assets in my spare time. At approximately 2$ a day, I can afford MayaLT.
Lightwave is also very unforgiving to new users - there's multiple duplicate tools all with non-standard or non-descriptive names, a sizable proportion of the functions and tools cannot be undone once used (!), there's irreversibly destructive hotkeys on unmodified keys, it's incredibly unstable and deals with smoothing and subdivision in non-standard ways.
I used it professionally for many years and never have I come across such a nightmarish tool to work in, despite the nice pricing and having some genuinely cool stuff tucked away inside. Not worth the pain, in my opinion, at least until they address some of the ten-year-old bugs they've not yet fixed.
Much of what you are talking about has been resolved since version 10. Still, I don't use my copy of lightwave almost ever. Once I went Max and now MayaLT lightwave is somehow just not as relevant as it used to be for me.
In that case you really need to get your hands on Modo. No joke. If you think Maya is faster and easier, then you are missing out.
Modo + Substance Designer plugin and you will be a happy camper.
Yep, id love to get a copy someday. I just cant see it as a goto app as it does not bake, animation tools are supposedly sub-par, and is a foreign interface to me. Also, once you get MayaLT dialed in, it really seems to be a very nice enviro to work in.
Perhaps if NewTek/LW3DG would give a nod to game artists; they have continually ignored game artists for YEARS. Despite myself and a spartan few others "reminding" them of the large base of potential users available. You can't force someone to help themselves it seems.
That is the Number one reason i left lightwave behind. It really just sucks for game devs. Its like they decided to simply ignore us. why? would it really be that hard to add a baking solution and a good set of uv tools? Omg why the crap uv tools? it makes no sense.
Autodesk loves us though looks like they are going all in on games. I am happy about that at least. Especially since they seem to be catering to not just AAA studios but little schmucks like me too.
HAHAHAHA does that program even exist any more? I used that program way back in the day for doing doom mods i think. Man it hurts to even think back that far.
Genuine question: what specifically is faster with Modo? Can you give examples? I come from a Maya background so that's what I'm comfortable with, but I'm always interested in cutting costs where I can.
With Maya, I've found that if another program has a feature I want, Maya can probably do it too if you know the software well enough. For example, Max's "make planar" function can be emulated via Maya's "transfer attributes" by setting vertex position to match a plane like a deformer. If you make a shelf button or script out of your operation, you essentially gain that tool. Maya also tends to be one of the first to gain program integration features (like GoZ) because it's so flexible.
Anyway, I hear a lot of great things about Modo, but it's all generalized. Can anyone give specifics?
Blender's getting more impressive every year. I think attempting large scale projects, like Sintel or Gooseberry, is serving them well because it fosters real development to get the job done, which later makes it into the official build.
Heya, I can completely relate to that line of inquiry. I was doing the same not long ago, and also coming from a Maya background I couldnt really see the worth in Modo at first. Even looking for examples as to why it was better or faster was not easy.
Once Modo steam edition came out ($150), I ended up giving it a chance, the cost wouldnt break bank and I could take my time with it. The biggest thing that held me back (and others coming from maya) was the default controls. Once I manged to change these (maya navigation method) and trackball rotation off, it became extremely familiar (even turned off the workplane). That was key.
So now onto the specifics of why it became faster to work in. The most obvious would have to be the selection approach. Getting the kinds of selections you want, even complex ones, is extremely easy. Its smart, almost as if its reading your mind. So with just the mouse and a modifier key or two, you can perform super fast selections that would normally takes much longer to perform in Maya.
The modeling toolset is extremely robust as well, same approach as Maya where you select your tools use them and then let them go. The right tool for the right job kind of workflow. Most of them are just smart in how they work... I think thats the underlying message here... that modo is "smart" in how it works/feels. Pipe tool creates awesome pipes/wires, even has a dedicated method to UVing them for clean results. Falloffs result in getting some very interesting methods of control over the modeling process.
The real kicker is how you can combine its other modes into one extremely unified pipeline. The topology pen or even retopo mode is very fast, its literally just drawing out verts, edges and faces which snap to either surface or additional verts and edges. The sculpting tools are robust, meaning one can quickly just push and pull both low poly and high poly geo with easy. Dragging the wacom pen while holding the right mouse button increases and decreases the brush size. Its very streamlined.
The layer approach makes keeping track of assets and their properties quite easy. Being able to manage a scene or just different parts of a mesh, copy and paste them into new layers (kind of like photoshop) makes the workflow pretty easy. Same with managing materials and other properties in the shader tree.
Sometimes when needing to concept out something, even if its part of an existing mesh...I can create a plane, set it to alpha and just start drawing (feels a bit like mudbox painting), and I can sketch out, erase, grab color..ect out the design I want. I dont have to leave the application for this or my mesh/scene, nor do I feel gimped for using the existing tools inside of Modo.
Baking is fast and easy, and with 801 theres cage baking as well as vertex normal editting built in. Its extremely fast and easy to kitbash, as theres a mode that includes a detailed drag and drop asset browser. Great for level layouts as well. Snapping could use some work though.
UVing nets great results nearly every time. UVing is so effective in Modo, that you spend a lot less time worrying about trying to get the right UVs. Most of the time I can just click unwrap and get workable results.
In otherwords, its all very smart in how it works. The fact it can hit most parts of our pipeline and do so in a way thats actually good removes the need for having leave the program. It just becomes faster as a result, not just faster but easier. Lots of automation as well with the mesh clean up tool or mirror geometry tools.
Modo isnt reinventing the wheel as far as what we do, but due to the "smart" behavior of its tools, it becomes faster and some what more empowering for the artist. Its not perfect by anymeans though, but still a far better deal that what you get with Maya.
Much of what you are talking about has been resolved since version 10. Still, I don't use my copy of lightwave almost ever. Once I went Max and now MayaLT lightwave is somehow just not as relevant as it used to be for me.
No, it's all mostly still there in 11, sadly. At least 11.4, which was the last time I used it.
Deleted a keyframe? Can't undo! Ever! Moved a keyframe? Same deal! Modified anything in a numeric entry box, slider or material? Non-undoable! Spend 30 minutes hand-selecting polys due to the lack of selection tools only to accidentally drop the selection? Non-undoable, do it all again. Selections always lost if you leave a layer, even when it's still displayed in the background? Only one undo in the Graph Editor? Deselecting in the dope sheet removes your ability to undo? 7 tools that all perform the exact same cut operation, some of which with only a slight variation in name, and zero variation in function? Incomplete and laggy Catmull-Clark subdivision implementation, so you're stuck with wacky metanurbs? Alphas not only inverted but required to be in two different slots, only one of which is saved with the mesh, the other saved in a separate scene, to render correct alphas? Still no way to smooth edge normals or mimic smoothing groups without hackily using multiple different materials? Scene and viewport handling dies after a million or so polygons? Modeler and Layout apparently using totally different OpenGL implementations?
I could go on and on - baffling, insane, workflow-crippling issues that never get fixed. I've had discussions with devs in person and tried to help bug-test and send off giant lists of issues for the few years I had to work with it, but they seem like they've been forced to play catch-up rather than fix long-standing issues. Maybe one day they'll get to it, though.
Perhaps if Rob Powers came from a game development background, rather than a VFX/Cinema one; they might be more serious about attracting game artists. Up till now; it's been mostly (if not all) lip service. And I think Rob is doing a good job with the hand he was dealt; just not in the areas I would prefer. Then there's the split between Modeler and Layout.....
Replies
So, not good.
Being a monthly fee also means it won't get any of the notorious Steam sales.
I would have thought that Steam's ability to prevent anyone from pirating it would've lent the system very well to a cheap perpetual license.
But, that's Autodesk.
Depends if you have the time to devote to learning Blender and how much that time is worth to you.
Maybe its just me but I picked up blender very easily meanwhile I have tried to learn max and so far I have spent lots of time for little results with max because I forget things meanwhile with blender learning was fast and easy
Probably because of the prejudice that plagues Blender.
Also, there's the whole "I Will have to use 3DS/Maya in a studio anyway".
To be honest, I Find modeling in Blender super fast and super intuitive. Hotkeys are the shizzle, but I guess you got to adapt. With Blender's constant updating, it is getting better on a monthly basis. Addons like Quicktools and MeshLint are so great.
The only area that I find lacking, is the exporting, which Can be a bit of a pain.
Overall, Blender is so much fun to model in, and is getting slicker and slicker.
First in 2007 from modeling perspective. It didn't click with me.
Than in 2010, from simulation perspective. It didn't click with me.
Lastly in 2012-2013 with Maya 2014 they added C#, so I figured that there is no better way for me now than learn it than from API perspective with my first and most loved programming language. IT. DID.NOT.CLICK.WITH.ME.
Maybe it's because my first ever program that I learned was Houdini, I don't know, I don't care. I think that seven years of giving a chance proofs that this program is not for me.
Blender on the other hand... I picked it up in one day.
Went from max to blender myself.
Maya sucks! How can anyone use it?
Once you get used to it, it is surprisingly efficient. The only draw back is that you will start getting a little bit confused when you open up other 3D viewers. All of a sudden, the more traditional methods will look a little bit off.
That being said, you can now swap to 3DS/Maya control scheme via the preference menu. Pretty nifty.
Because i think theres a lot of people out there who are tired of Autodesk's outrageous prices, and their market monopolising ways.
Yeah you can switch the left click/right click stuff in the preferences. I found out about it late so I just got used to the right clicking stuff and I actually enjoy it. I was able to get used to Blender pretty fast personally, but I switched between maya, max and lightwave over time so I just sort of got used to differences in interface.
Interface aside though, I feel like the tools are very familiar when it comes to actually modeling and rigging stuff.
But Blender's node graph doesn't cold a candle to Maya's viewport shader stuff and ShaderFX which may be a big factor to people. The node graph in blender could probably work for making nice useful shaders for PBR and stuff, but it would definately take a lot of work to get to that point. (I have started working on trying to make one though.)
But you know that you can change the left/right click? Blender is surprisingly flexible.
A lot people launch Blender, it does not work like they are used to, bam they close it and then have a opinion like yours :poly142:
I won't blame you for that, nor would I try to convince people to use Blender. Personally, I tried Maya several times. And no matter what, the modeling workflow feels inefficient and clunky to me.
I know a lot artists here work in the industry, or want to work in the industry. There is no real alternative for Autodesk products then.
But the indie market is another story. Blender and Modo are really popular there. Autodesk knows that and thus tries to break into that profitable market too, with stuff like Steam, or Maya LT.
But I really don't understand the benefits for the Steam version. It's the same price, as in the official AD store. Usually the Steam versions of certain software is cheaper.
I could understand if someone would ditch Blender in favor for 3dmax or the full Maya suite. But Maya LT?
It's such a trimmed down package, that I find it quite a impudence to sell that for $50/m
As for the blender part of this conversation, its a good tool, but for games, MayaLT kicks its ass every which way from Sunday. Realtime shaders in viewport via Viewport2.0 and shader FX would be enough, but the uv tools, baking tools and the speed of production also are a boon to MayaLT imho. Ive never built models faster and easier for games than with LT. The best part is I get to learn Maya for a fraction of the cost while being productive with it.
Invariably the answer is yes! Usually with expletives towards anyone who chooses to pay for a class A application. For some reason people in the blender community believe that theirs is the only choice and anyone (including pixar i guess) is an idiot for not going to blender.
Personally, I have blender.... Its installed with the latest release right now. I use it for some things, but for the most part it remains a novelty app i launch for very case specific things (particle effects mostly). They certainly don't have to "sell" me (or anyone else) on it.
As a side note, I also like to be able to say I work with maya in business. People respect Maya and by default respect the users of it. Therefore I can usually charge more of a premium because I use Maya. Also there is wayyyyyy more work available to maya guys than blender guys.
I would love to see how many people would stay with blender if it came with a price-tag more in line with the industry norm.
Lightwave isnt a contender anymore ?
$995.- full version
Also, in case anyone's sarcasm detector is broken, my previous post in this thread was almost entirely sarcastic. I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone with my zeal for Blender.
To be honest, I Have a feeling that Blender would be way more popular as a payware.
The whole reason people "disrespect" Blender, is the fact that it is a freeware, and that the "Blender Community" is filled with complete beginners.
I really think that if you cannot afford a proper Maya/Max licesne, you are better off with Blender, than with a gimped version of Maya.
But at the end of the day, just use whatever feels best. 3D Suites are just tools, and limiting yourself to specific tools can be harmful.
That being said, I am also getting a little bit sick of subscriptions.
All of these subscription licences are really starting to add up :x
In that case you really need to get your hands on Modo. No joke. If you think Maya is faster and easier, then you are missing out.
Modo + Substance Designer plugin and you will be a happy camper.
I starter using Maya few years ago while I was learning in best (then) Polish 3D animation school. I used this software for 2 and half year, including year as professional artist. Then Blender 2.63 with ngons came up and I starter learning it and I was blown away by its awesome capability. I never go back to Maya since then.
I agree that ShaderFX is nice and far superior than Blender's GLSL crap but in terms of modeling, mapping, and texturing Blender features are killing maya's archaic tools. I follow progress of both programs. Blender is rapidly getting more powerful while only thing that Maya get since 2011 version is some badly implemented tools from NEX plugin and fancy unfold algorithm that blender had 9 years ago.
Thing about Blender is that people didn't even know what features it have now comparing to other applications. They are stick to rumors about blender 2.49 or even older versions when Blender indeed was cheap and crappy piece of code. It was years ago and blender's year of development is equal to few years of development of Maya or Max. Really. Look for release notes from this programs. Like I do constantly.
http://www.blendernation.com/2013/03/08/pixar-on-blender-and-the-importance-of-open-source/
+
Some of Pixar guys are now working on blender code to implement OpenSubdiv.
Perhaps if NewTek/LW3DG would give a nod to game artists; they have continually ignored game artists for YEARS. Despite myself and a spartan few others "reminding" them of the large base of potential users available. You can't force someone to help themselves it seems.
I used it professionally for many years and never have I come across such a nightmarish tool to work in, despite the nice pricing and having some genuinely cool stuff tucked away inside. Not worth the pain, in my opinion, at least until they address some of the ten-year-old bugs they've not yet fixed.
The freeware part is no issue with me and the game industry is fine with using free and open source software.
Genuine question: what specifically is faster with Modo? Can you give examples? I come from a Maya background so that's what I'm comfortable with, but I'm always interested in cutting costs where I can.
With Maya, I've found that if another program has a feature I want, Maya can probably do it too if you know the software well enough. For example, Max's "make planar" function can be emulated via Maya's "transfer attributes" by setting vertex position to match a plane like a deformer. If you make a shelf button or script out of your operation, you essentially gain that tool. Maya also tends to be one of the first to gain program integration features (like GoZ) because it's so flexible.
Anyway, I hear a lot of great things about Modo, but it's all generalized. Can anyone give specifics?
Blender's getting more impressive every year. I think attempting large scale projects, like Sintel or Gooseberry, is serving them well because it fosters real development to get the job done, which later makes it into the official build.
Hey, say what you want about Milkshape but If there's some arcane game engine from 2002 and you need to get something into it, Milkshape's got that exporter.
Sure it is. In fact I have a warm fuzzy place in my heart and a full copy of lightwave sitting on my shelf, but, when it comes to game dev MayaLT is a much more robust package.
Here are the reasons I prefer MayaLT over anything else for games.
1. Viewport 2.0 - I hate cluttering up my workspace with Marmoset files, switching apps, managing all that junk just to see my damn model. now I don't have to. Marmoset is basically built in now... and its better than marmoset at what it does.
2. Turtle Baking - Really a good baking tool. Fast, easy and gives very acceptable results. Also, appreciate not having to clutter up my space with xNormal exports and all that.
3. 2015's new UV tools - Really good stuff in there. I especially like the new Distortion view. WOW, what a time saver that is.
4. Easy to Customize Interface - No toolkit is ever set up the way I want... ever. Luckily MayaLT makes its super easy to put the tools you use most right where you want them. The interface imho is by far the best. On downside is that the default arrangement really isnt the best. Some of the most critical tools (to me) are still buried in menus. But, its only about 10 minutes of work to get everything right where I want em.
5. Excellent FBX exporter - and has a fine OBJ exporter.
6. Great send-to features - for Unity and now there is even a specialty one for Dota2. Pretty cool stuff!
7. Price - I know its kinda silly... but... I have Always wanted to learn Maya. It was the only big app I never learned... mostly due to the fact that I couldn't attain a copy of it. Now I can because the price is more in line with what I can afford. Also, Im not a rich AAA+ developer with piles of money, im a simple indy dev trying to eek out a living making game assets in my spare time. At approximately 2$ a day, I can afford MayaLT.
Much of what you are talking about has been resolved since version 10. Still, I don't use my copy of lightwave almost ever. Once I went Max and now MayaLT lightwave is somehow just not as relevant as it used to be for me.
Yep, id love to get a copy someday. I just cant see it as a goto app as it does not bake, animation tools are supposedly sub-par, and is a foreign interface to me. Also, once you get MayaLT dialed in, it really seems to be a very nice enviro to work in.
That is the Number one reason i left lightwave behind. It really just sucks for game devs. Its like they decided to simply ignore us. why? would it really be that hard to add a baking solution and a good set of uv tools? Omg why the crap uv tools? it makes no sense.
Autodesk loves us though
Heya, I can completely relate to that line of inquiry. I was doing the same not long ago, and also coming from a Maya background I couldnt really see the worth in Modo at first. Even looking for examples as to why it was better or faster was not easy.
Once Modo steam edition came out ($150), I ended up giving it a chance, the cost wouldnt break bank and I could take my time with it. The biggest thing that held me back (and others coming from maya) was the default controls. Once I manged to change these (maya navigation method) and trackball rotation off, it became extremely familiar (even turned off the workplane). That was key.
So now onto the specifics of why it became faster to work in. The most obvious would have to be the selection approach. Getting the kinds of selections you want, even complex ones, is extremely easy. Its smart, almost as if its reading your mind. So with just the mouse and a modifier key or two, you can perform super fast selections that would normally takes much longer to perform in Maya.
The modeling toolset is extremely robust as well, same approach as Maya where you select your tools use them and then let them go. The right tool for the right job kind of workflow. Most of them are just smart in how they work... I think thats the underlying message here... that modo is "smart" in how it works/feels. Pipe tool creates awesome pipes/wires, even has a dedicated method to UVing them for clean results. Falloffs result in getting some very interesting methods of control over the modeling process.
The real kicker is how you can combine its other modes into one extremely unified pipeline. The topology pen or even retopo mode is very fast, its literally just drawing out verts, edges and faces which snap to either surface or additional verts and edges. The sculpting tools are robust, meaning one can quickly just push and pull both low poly and high poly geo with easy. Dragging the wacom pen while holding the right mouse button increases and decreases the brush size. Its very streamlined.
The layer approach makes keeping track of assets and their properties quite easy. Being able to manage a scene or just different parts of a mesh, copy and paste them into new layers (kind of like photoshop) makes the workflow pretty easy. Same with managing materials and other properties in the shader tree.
Sometimes when needing to concept out something, even if its part of an existing mesh...I can create a plane, set it to alpha and just start drawing (feels a bit like mudbox painting), and I can sketch out, erase, grab color..ect out the design I want. I dont have to leave the application for this or my mesh/scene, nor do I feel gimped for using the existing tools inside of Modo.
Baking is fast and easy, and with 801 theres cage baking as well as vertex normal editting built in. Its extremely fast and easy to kitbash, as theres a mode that includes a detailed drag and drop asset browser. Great for level layouts as well. Snapping could use some work though.
UVing nets great results nearly every time. UVing is so effective in Modo, that you spend a lot less time worrying about trying to get the right UVs. Most of the time I can just click unwrap and get workable results.
In otherwords, its all very smart in how it works. The fact it can hit most parts of our pipeline and do so in a way thats actually good removes the need for having leave the program. It just becomes faster as a result, not just faster but easier. Lots of automation as well with the mesh clean up tool or mirror geometry tools.
Modo isnt reinventing the wheel as far as what we do, but due to the "smart" behavior of its tools, it becomes faster and some what more empowering for the artist. Its not perfect by anymeans though, but still a far better deal that what you get with Maya.
No, it's all mostly still there in 11, sadly. At least 11.4, which was the last time I used it.
Deleted a keyframe? Can't undo! Ever! Moved a keyframe? Same deal! Modified anything in a numeric entry box, slider or material? Non-undoable! Spend 30 minutes hand-selecting polys due to the lack of selection tools only to accidentally drop the selection? Non-undoable, do it all again. Selections always lost if you leave a layer, even when it's still displayed in the background? Only one undo in the Graph Editor? Deselecting in the dope sheet removes your ability to undo? 7 tools that all perform the exact same cut operation, some of which with only a slight variation in name, and zero variation in function? Incomplete and laggy Catmull-Clark subdivision implementation, so you're stuck with wacky metanurbs? Alphas not only inverted but required to be in two different slots, only one of which is saved with the mesh, the other saved in a separate scene, to render correct alphas? Still no way to smooth edge normals or mimic smoothing groups without hackily using multiple different materials? Scene and viewport handling dies after a million or so polygons? Modeler and Layout apparently using totally different OpenGL implementations?
I could go on and on - baffling, insane, workflow-crippling issues that never get fixed. I've had discussions with devs in person and tried to help bug-test and send off giant lists of issues for the few years I had to work with it, but they seem like they've been forced to play catch-up rather than fix long-standing issues. Maybe one day they'll get to it, though.
Man, Lightwave sure makes me ranty