This is so fucked up. Killing civilians unrelated to a conflict is surely an act of war? If Russia actually did provide the missile system they gonna take some heat. What will NATO do?
It looks more like an attempt to label the separatists as terrorists. Noone wants a war, at least that's what I hope - but if this can be turned from a civil war into something that can be officially condoned then that could allow for new ways to handle it.
Still, it seems to be an unintentional, but tragic, mistake.
That is not bullshit, sorry. Putin is a dictator and stirring shit all around the globe to keep himself in power.
Today's tragic accident is almost certainly a misunderstanding, but it is the direct result of his actions.
That sort of finger pointing is what is going to prolong this needlessly. To keep himself in power?? He has extremely high support from the Russian population and has for a while, he doesn't need to 'stir shit around the globe to keep himself in power.'
Why are you ignoring the US's role in the Ukrainian situation?
So, by your definition, Obama and Bush are dictators for all the stuff they've done as well, recently and most notably Obama's push to give $500 million to Syrian terrorists AND training them?
That is not bullshit, sorry. Putin is a dictator and stirring shit all around the globe to keep himself in power.
Today's tragic accident is almost certainly a misunderstanding, but it is the direct result of his actions.
How exactly is he a dictator? Dont talk crap you know nothing about him. Just because media shits all over him, doesnt mean its true. Majority of people in Russia love the guy and support him. And just because he is a stick in the west goverments throats, doesnt mean he is who media makes him out to be. He is a man who loves his country and raised it from mud after USSR and Yeltsin. Neither US or EU like it. And now because whole Ukraine conflict doesnt exactly go as US / EU planned Russia being blamed for it any given chance. Russians never wanted anything like this to happen in the Ukraine ever! For one its a sister country with so called "brothers and sisters" even though its quite hostile to Russian people lately to being brainwashed by Ukrainian propaganda. For two Russia has too many business related strings tied to Ukraine, why cut yourself of billions in profits? US / EU are the main ones who wanted the conflict to start in my opinion.
Ukraine has fucked up in the whole eastern Ukraine with thousands of men dead lots of armored military vehicles being captured by resistance and being used against Kiev regime. Resistanse will go right to Kiev, as they will never forgive current goverment for bombing innocent people and other events that happened earlier. Thing is... resistance has the advantage now and things are not going according to plan for Kiev and its US / EU puppeteers. There will be all sorts of shit happening now just to get NATO troops into the region to stop the resistance who dont to be part of Ukraine no more due to many events.
What, so you believe Russia is some kind of white knight coming to save Ukraine?
Nope. Russia dont care about Ukraine too much. Looks like you didnt know that, but ~20% of Ukraine population is Russians and now new illegitimate Ukrainian goverment sponsored by us and eu killing those people (even kids).
I live in London, I speak russian and briefly understand ukranian. I have access to both media sides of the conflict and I am able to see picture quite clearly since that Euromaidan shit started stirring last year. I am not surprised that people of eastern Ukraine took guns in their hands at all... I cant say I wouldnt either! My great grandparents fought nazi back in WW2 and these people fighting against "nazi" regime now as well.
How exactly is he a dictator? Dont talk crap you know nothing about him. Just because media shits all over him, doesnt mean its true. Majority of people in Russia love the guy and support him.
Keep things civil, technically this thread doesn't fit the description for general discussion so threads like these are only barely tolerated as long as it doesn't turn into a fight.
LOL. First of all most of Russian people hates him (mostly because of his team), but there is not so much to choose from. «It's always between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Nearly every election since the beginning of time has been between some douche and some turd. They're the only people who suck up enough to make it that far in politics.» (c) SP
He is not «political opponent». Navalny is just a blogger who wants fame and power, but he become loser and lost nearly everything because he is acting like a moron.
- Ukraine Air Force jet shot down by Russian plane (c) Fox news
- Malaysian jet 'shot down' over Ukraine (c) Aljazeera
- Ukraine Says Russian Plane Shot Down Its Fighter Jet (c) New York Times
- Ukraine bears responsibility for crash (c) Politico
- Putin: Ukraine responsible for Malaysian tragedy (c )The Hill
Then I'll ask you. Why would you entitle yourself as a leader of a country into some sort of violent regime? What would your intent for an outcome be?
Someone on either side of power wants to have more for some weird sick addiction they can't kick. I have better things I could do with my life than to rule my way in with violence.
Physical evidence and scientific reasoning. Now you are talking my language my friend.
This theory seems completely possible. In fact similar scenarios of " rebel forces shot down civilian craft by mistake with supplied air defences from other countries" had occured many times before if I am not mistaken.
This is why as a country ( any country, I am not taking side in this) you should NEVER EVER supply AA systems to people because your interests lies together for a short while.
Also this "Grizzly" is a system that has been supplied most to other countries by Russia for it's cheapness and reliability for medium AA capacity, if memory serves. So all the more reason for that being true.
1. That plane should not have been over that area. Other aircraft have been shot down there recently.
2. This is what happens when you give weapons to crazies. Russia is far from the only country guilty of this.
3. Let's wait until we have the full picture before engaging in verbal warfare?
Also really. This airspace should be restricted . meaning you just shouldn't be able to fly in it as you please. How in the bloody hell the airline company did not reported this to pilots ???
where do you have this information ?
At the end - i dont want to say anything - the video means nothing,
especially its on youtube intelligence - just really sad, that terroits
going for this steps to finally get there war!
where do you have this information ?
At the end - i dont want to say anything - the video means nothing,
especially its on youtube intelligence - just really sad, that terroits
going for this steps to finally get there war!
This was disscussed many times right after original video were uploaded by ukraine intelligence.
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km east-southeast of Feodosiya, Ukraine. Ukraine admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km east-southeast of Feodosiya, Ukraine. Ukraine admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.
Mistakenly shot down by Ukraine military or rebels.
Shit storm in media hit Russia of course.
Generally terrible situation. The day before, a relative was on the plane in the area.
I know about 007 flight. It has nothing to do with modern history and Russia.
Your links to anti-russian propagandistic noname blog is really "competent". lol. Dont be pathetic.
sure, links to Russia Today or Lifenews would made you more satisfying, redneck.
It's absurd to say that jet was shot down by rebels or Ukraine army cuz nobody knows the results of investigation presently.
Plastix is a regular on the Crydev forums; your propaganda bot accusations are childish and just muddy up the conversation and turn it into pointless drivel.
"He disagrees with me!? Must be a propaganda bot!" Seriously man? Do you have any integrity whatsoever? Guessing not, especially after ignoring my post before when I countered everything you said with sources and facts.
Let's just put the speculation to rest until something concrete comes out.
Plastix is a regular on the Crydev forums; your propaganda bot accusations are childish and just muddy up the conversation and turn it into pointless drivel.
"He disagrees with me!? Must be a propaganda bot!" Seriously man? Do you have any integrity whatsoever? Guessing not, especially after ignoring my post before when I countered everything you said with sources and facts.
Let's just put the speculation to rest until something concrete comes out.
5 messages on the crydev forums - regular person, okay.
Here is the new conspirative version of tragedy from rebels - it was USA provocation and there were corpses at Malaysian jet before it crashed. Do u believe this?
You can translate this article, if u don't know russian, it's official site of rebels: http://ikorpus.ru/18-07-2014-kommentarii-ot-strelkova/
As for wiki-link, I didn't know about this investigation.
5 messages on the crydev forums - regular person, okay.
Here is the new conspirative version of tragedy from rebels - it was USA provocation and there were corpses at Malaysian jet before it crashed. Do u believe this?
You can translate this article, if u don't know russian, it's official site of rebels: http://ikorpus.ru/18-07-2014-kommentarii-ot-strelkova/
As for wiki-link, I didn't know about this investigation.
Speculation will lead us nowhere until we get more hard facts. I'll translate that page and check it out later.
5 messages on the crydev forums? No, much more than that, more like 1598 posts, and he has been a regular since 2009.
sure, links to Russia Today or Lifenews would made you more satisfying, redneck.
It's absurd to say that jet was shot down by rebels or Ukraine army cuz nobody knows the results of investigation presently.
This goes for anyone else as well.
If you're going to discuss this topic, you will drop the insults and communicate like adults. If you don't, this thread will be deleted and you will be get a temp ban from Polycount.
To view this in another "light" means it is no different than the other conflicts across the globe. People who are not living in these conflict areas will always have an opinion on who the bad and good guys are, that proves that people outside these regions are incapable of finding solutions because the people living inside these regions cannot find solutions, it is a sad reality of the 21st century.
If you look at this site for example you can find a solution to any 3D problem which rarely involves emotional debates. That said I can see parallels and a system that could be applied to global problems because the goal is to arrive at solutions, true democracy ? or scientifically based based procedures ?
What happened yesterday is horrible but what has been happening in Ukraine over the last 4 months is worse and you only get the bigger picture when you talk to people from Ukraine & Russia (which I am doing tonight). The main discussion is that they are all from the USSR, thus the same people and they do not want this war, period.
I grew up in Belfast and spent 21 years in the same situation, outsiders where always telling me what the problems were/are in that particular part of Ireland. It frustrated me back then but I understand why people think the way they do and most of you ranting on this thread are doing exactly the same thing, basing your opinions on YOUR logic based on news reports. This never works and is beside the point because your opinion is just an opinion and not a solution.
I would like to read your solutions to this Ukrainian/Russian problem and not your opinions and the people visiting me tonight voice the same solution both Russian and Ukrainian (they are the same people and if you can be bothered to get out your history books you will see that) and it arrives at the same solution that I have already stated in my previous post.
Considering the fact how Ukrainian government bombing innocent civilians, without actually doing any progress in fights against the "resistance". It is quite important to bring awareness to people what kind of regime EU / US has allowed to settle in the country. As none of the media in the west covering the horror Ukrainian government brings to innocent people of the east.
Ukraine has been bombing the shit out city of Lugansk today with 44 civilians killed, 215 wounded. And this is happening every single day with different intensity.
I agree with everything repete said above and would like to add another thing. People of the east are simply fighting for their freedom, simple people like you all here took guns in their hands to protect their homes from the horror new questionable government brings.
I would like to read your solutions to this Ukrainian/Russian problem and not your opinions and the people visiting me tonight voice the same solution both Russian and Ukrainian (they are the same people and if you can be bothered to get out your history books you will see that) and it arrives at the same solution that I have already stated in my previous post.
More "my kind of stuff" OK let me give it a try:
First: Why Ukraine ? Ukraine sits atop on important natural gas and energy roads that directly pour energy from Russia to Europe. Before these conflicts I remember there were quite the discussions between EU, US and Russia about pricing of natural gas and I remember it didn't go very well. And remember even Putin threatening to cut down the all gas flow to Ukraine if negotiations goes down.
So, subject number one: This is partly a war for resources
Second: Since Operation Mockingbird it is quite a common tactic for US to first corrupt a counrty's official's then assassinating and/or coup'ing the only useful leaders to turn that country into their own proxy state. You hear a lot about Ukraine's new goverment being Nazi-type people that are backed up by western financial sources. So this whole thing could be partly a same template. So why did this matter got so complicated ?
Here is my simple take on it:
Putin simply didn't like to see the same thing happening in his " backyard" let me humbly call it ( no offense intended, really) . He simply didn't like it, aslo the income from energy sale was at stake so he simply didn't stand there and used the same tactic on Ukraine. Supporting the other factions by physical/ political means. And now you have the mass you have in your hands.
Subject number two: This is partly a "powerplay" war.
So any kind of solution should include adressings to these two subjects. It should solve either the need of energy of EU or simply find a cheaper flow solution that would benefit also Russia in economic terms. Also it should keep the western manipulation tactics off the table and put real leaders who are capable of cleaning the mess left behind and keeping Ukrane's economy and stability at a nice level.
So this is my starting points. Anyone having any nice ideas concerning these two subjects just right'em. I'll also think about something
Seems theres only a few (sic Plastix, 19 posts, 11 in this thread) personally attacking people. Remove them from the thread and carry on without toxic people?
It's been a interesting read so far with all the perspectives. Considering we have such a diverse forum, people pushing for factual, referenced information is a brilliant practice.
To add to TAN's points - I think that Russia's geopolitical position is coming under threat. The EU's sphere of influence is growing eastwards, into territories where Russia used to have a greater influence. A lot of ex-Soviet bloc countries are looking towards Europe, I think this stems from when the USSR occupied the countries during it's totalitarian rule. East Germany was part of the Soviet bloc right up until 1989.
It's fair that there are pro-Russian-Russians who want to become part of Russia, this is similar to pro-Union Irish residents in Northern Ireland. However, can we say that they are the majority? Russia's main fear is natural resources going towards Europe, and other surrounding countries doing the same thing.
One solution is that resources don't belong to a nation state, that can then be used as a blackmailing tool. But I doubt that any nation would ever give up their resources for the global common good.
Replies
If you don't agree with the guy, show some evidence to support your claims, so that we can have calm, civilized discussion.
I know i'm not a mod here, but i think we are all grown up, we can have normal discussion....
There are more polite and constructive ways to word that without coming across as a douche. Keep it civil, people.
What, so you believe Russia is some kind of white knight coming to save Ukraine?
Still, it seems to be an unintentional, but tragic, mistake.
As for the situation,
1. That plane should not have been over that area. Other aircraft have been shot down there recently.
2. This is what happens when you give weapons to crazies. Russia is far from the only country guilty of this.
3. Let's wait until we have the full picture before engaging in verbal warfare?
That sort of finger pointing is what is going to prolong this needlessly. To keep himself in power?? He has extremely high support from the Russian population and has for a while, he doesn't need to 'stir shit around the globe to keep himself in power.'
Why are you ignoring the US's role in the Ukrainian situation?
So, by your definition, Obama and Bush are dictators for all the stuff they've done as well, recently and most notably Obama's push to give $500 million to Syrian terrorists AND training them?
How exactly is he a dictator? Dont talk crap you know nothing about him. Just because media shits all over him, doesnt mean its true. Majority of people in Russia love the guy and support him. And just because he is a stick in the west goverments throats, doesnt mean he is who media makes him out to be. He is a man who loves his country and raised it from mud after USSR and Yeltsin. Neither US or EU like it. And now because whole Ukraine conflict doesnt exactly go as US / EU planned Russia being blamed for it any given chance. Russians never wanted anything like this to happen in the Ukraine ever! For one its a sister country with so called "brothers and sisters" even though its quite hostile to Russian people lately to being brainwashed by Ukrainian propaganda. For two Russia has too many business related strings tied to Ukraine, why cut yourself of billions in profits? US / EU are the main ones who wanted the conflict to start in my opinion.
Ukraine has fucked up in the whole eastern Ukraine with thousands of men dead lots of armored military vehicles being captured by resistance and being used against Kiev regime. Resistanse will go right to Kiev, as they will never forgive current goverment for bombing innocent people and other events that happened earlier. Thing is... resistance has the advantage now and things are not going according to plan for Kiev and its US / EU puppeteers. There will be all sorts of shit happening now just to get NATO troops into the region to stop the resistance who dont to be part of Ukraine no more due to many events.
Nope. Russia dont care about Ukraine too much. Looks like you didnt know that, but ~20% of Ukraine population is Russians and now new illegitimate Ukrainian goverment sponsored by us and eu killing those people (even kids).
YES!
Dont talk crap you know nothing about him. Of course people in Russia loves him, it's called "propaganda". Russian media is heavily controlled by the regime. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia
Putin is also trying to get silence his political opponents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksei_Navalny
He's not a dictator but he's also not far from being one.
LOL. First of all most of Russian people hates him (mostly because of his team), but there is not so much to choose from. «It's always between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. Nearly every election since the beginning of time has been between some douche and some turd. They're the only people who suck up enough to make it that far in politics.» (c) SP
He is not «political opponent». Navalny is just a blogger who wants fame and power, but he become loser and lost nearly everything because he is acting like a moron.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russia-shoots-down-malaysian-mh17.html
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/07/russian-grad-firing-from-russian-soil.html
- Malaysian jet 'shot down' over Ukraine (c) Aljazeera
- Ukraine Says Russian Plane Shot Down Its Fighter Jet (c) New York Times
- Ukraine bears responsibility for crash (c) Politico
- Putin: Ukraine responsible for Malaysian tragedy (c )The Hill
Same news, different views.
Someone on either side of power wants to have more for some weird sick addiction they can't kick. I have better things I could do with my life than to rule my way in with violence.
17 July 2014: Boeing 777 (Malaysia Airlines) crashed
Conspiracy Theory: First one was used as a test plane. The second one is shot down to blame Russia and invade Ukraine with nato forces.
Physical evidence and scientific reasoning. Now you are talking my language my friend.
This theory seems completely possible. In fact similar scenarios of " rebel forces shot down civilian craft by mistake with supplied air defences from other countries" had occured many times before if I am not mistaken.
This is why as a country ( any country, I am not taking side in this) you should NEVER EVER supply AA systems to people because your interests lies together for a short while.
Also this "Grizzly" is a system that has been supplied most to other countries by Russia for it's cheapness and reliability for medium AA capacity, if memory serves. So all the more reason for that being true.
Also really. This airspace should be restricted . meaning you just shouldn't be able to fly in it as you please. How in the bloody hell the airline company did not reported this to pilots ???
Plastix last post shows why it should be locked down.
There is a Video by the ukraine intelligence: (nothing confirmed yet)
Video file encoded 16 july 2014 (one day before event). Guess what it means?
PS.
16 july: audio (video file) about plane crash created by ukrainian side
17 july: actual event happen
At the end - i dont want to say anything - the video means nothing,
especially its on youtube intelligence - just really sad, that terroits
going for this steps to finally get there war!
This was disscussed many times right after original video were uploaded by ukraine intelligence.
want to spread stupid things!
Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 crashed over the Black Sea on 4 October 2001, en route from Tel Aviv, Israel to Novosibirsk, Russia. The plane, a Soviet-made Tupolev Tu-154, carried an estimated 66 passengers and 12 crew members. Most of the passengers were Israelis visiting relatives in Russia. No one on board survived. The crash site is some 190 km west-southwest of the Black Sea resort of Sochi and 140 km north of the Turkish coastal town of Fatsa and 350 km east-southeast of Feodosiya, Ukraine. Ukraine admitted that the disaster was probably caused by an errant missile fired by its armed forces.
one more thing that you didn't know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
p.s. U're just newly registered propagandic bot who gets all info from such "competent" sites as RToday and lifenews.
I know about 007 flight. It has nothing to do with modern history and Russia.
Your links to anti-russian propagandistic noname blog is really "competent". lol. Dont be pathetic.
Shit storm in media hit Russia of course.
Generally terrible situation. The day before, a relative was on the plane in the area.
also i heard there were 100 AIDS researchers on that plane..
great minds all gone for what?
R.I.P
It's absurd to say that jet was shot down by rebels or Ukraine army cuz nobody knows the results of investigation presently.
Plastix is a regular on the Crydev forums; your propaganda bot accusations are childish and just muddy up the conversation and turn it into pointless drivel.
"He disagrees with me!? Must be a propaganda bot!" Seriously man? Do you have any integrity whatsoever? Guessing not, especially after ignoring my post before when I countered everything you said with sources and facts.
Let's just put the speculation to rest until something concrete comes out.
inflict3d, did you know about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
5 messages on the crydev forums - regular person, okay.
Here is the new conspirative version of tragedy from rebels - it was USA provocation and there were corpses at Malaysian jet before it crashed. Do u believe this?
You can translate this article, if u don't know russian, it's official site of rebels:
http://ikorpus.ru/18-07-2014-kommentarii-ot-strelkova/
As for wiki-link, I didn't know about this investigation.
Speculation will lead us nowhere until we get more hard facts. I'll translate that page and check it out later.
5 messages on the crydev forums? No, much more than that, more like 1598 posts, and he has been a regular since 2009.
http://www.crydev.net/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98033
What? You are delusional!
First warning.
This goes for anyone else as well.
If you're going to discuss this topic, you will drop the insults and communicate like adults. If you don't, this thread will be deleted and you will be get a temp ban from Polycount.
If you look at this site for example you can find a solution to any 3D problem which rarely involves emotional debates. That said I can see parallels and a system that could be applied to global problems because the goal is to arrive at solutions, true democracy ? or scientifically based based procedures ?
What happened yesterday is horrible but what has been happening in Ukraine over the last 4 months is worse and you only get the bigger picture when you talk to people from Ukraine & Russia (which I am doing tonight). The main discussion is that they are all from the USSR, thus the same people and they do not want this war, period.
I grew up in Belfast and spent 21 years in the same situation, outsiders where always telling me what the problems were/are in that particular part of Ireland. It frustrated me back then but I understand why people think the way they do and most of you ranting on this thread are doing exactly the same thing, basing your opinions on YOUR logic based on news reports. This never works and is beside the point because your opinion is just an opinion and not a solution.
I would like to read your solutions to this Ukrainian/Russian problem and not your opinions and the people visiting me tonight voice the same solution both Russian and Ukrainian (they are the same people and if you can be bothered to get out your history books you will see that) and it arrives at the same solution that I have already stated in my previous post.
That guy is simply lying. I dont have any messages with links to «Russia Today or Lifenews». I didnt say «jet was shot down by rebels or Ukraine arm».
Ukraine has been bombing the shit out city of Lugansk today with 44 civilians killed, 215 wounded. And this is happening every single day with different intensity.
I agree with everything repete said above and would like to add another thing. People of the east are simply fighting for their freedom, simple people like you all here took guns in their hands to protect their homes from the horror new questionable government brings.
Dumb idea for a thread, please lock.
More "my kind of stuff"
First: Why Ukraine ? Ukraine sits atop on important natural gas and energy roads that directly pour energy from Russia to Europe. Before these conflicts I remember there were quite the discussions between EU, US and Russia about pricing of natural gas and I remember it didn't go very well. And remember even Putin threatening to cut down the all gas flow to Ukraine if negotiations goes down.
So, subject number one: This is partly a war for resources
Second: Since Operation Mockingbird it is quite a common tactic for US to first corrupt a counrty's official's then assassinating and/or coup'ing the only useful leaders to turn that country into their own proxy state. You hear a lot about Ukraine's new goverment being Nazi-type people that are backed up by western financial sources. So this whole thing could be partly a same template. So why did this matter got so complicated ?
Here is my simple take on it:
Putin simply didn't like to see the same thing happening in his " backyard" let me humbly call it ( no offense intended, really) . He simply didn't like it, aslo the income from energy sale was at stake so he simply didn't stand there and used the same tactic on Ukraine. Supporting the other factions by physical/ political means. And now you have the mass you have in your hands.
Subject number two: This is partly a "powerplay" war.
So any kind of solution should include adressings to these two subjects. It should solve either the need of energy of EU or simply find a cheaper flow solution that would benefit also Russia in economic terms. Also it should keep the western manipulation tactics off the table and put real leaders who are capable of cleaning the mess left behind and keeping Ukrane's economy and stability at a nice level.
So this is my starting points. Anyone having any nice ideas concerning these two subjects just right'em. I'll also think about something
It's been a interesting read so far with all the perspectives. Considering we have such a diverse forum, people pushing for factual, referenced information is a brilliant practice.
It's fair that there are pro-Russian-Russians who want to become part of Russia, this is similar to pro-Union Irish residents in Northern Ireland. However, can we say that they are the majority? Russia's main fear is natural resources going towards Europe, and other surrounding countries doing the same thing.
One solution is that resources don't belong to a nation state, that can then be used as a blackmailing tool. But I doubt that any nation would ever give up their resources for the global common good.