What do you lot think of Modo?
polycounter lvl 12
I'm a maya user. Love it to death, but I want to get decent with at least one other 3D app just to increase what I know. I tried Max, but didn't like it because navigation doesn't work well with my tablet, and I model and everything with the tablet.
So I tried Modo, and so far its really impressing me. I'm interested mainly in its modelling tools, which seem to be better and more extensive than Maya's from what I've seen.
Is Modo good to learn for game artists? Do many of you guys use it?
So I tried Modo, and so far its really impressing me. I'm interested mainly in its modelling tools, which seem to be better and more extensive than Maya's from what I've seen.
Is Modo good to learn for game artists? Do many of you guys use it?
Replies
The things I enjoyed about it were the way they handled how the animated pivot system works
&
passing off constraining objects from one parent to another.
I've used Modo for every major project I've been on, both professional and personal. I love it to death. It's definitely not good for baking textures or doing much by way of animation (for which there are much better and more efficient programs out there anyway), but it's absolutely fantastic for modeling, UVs, and doing some nice renders.
Yeah, I'm really not interested in animation. I just want to model, and I can bake textures in Maya or whatever.
Is Modo good for scene management? Most of the stuff I've seen that I could tell was made in Modo was mainly single props. I haven't really seen a full scene of an interior or something. I'm guessing all that stuff is just as doable?
I think at very least is program to keep your eyes on. It's improving a lot recently and I think is growing in userbase. It still has shortcomings but has great strengths, especially regarding to modelling tools. The new MeshFusion plugin is a very eye-opener addition too.
I wish it had better baking tools and smoothing managements - I generally finalize smoothing and do map baking in Max - but for raw modeling power, I don't think Modo can be beat.
And the new MeshFusion plugin is making wonderful things happen in my life:
I am growing more and more frustrated with new bugs popping up in the constant 'upgrades' Autodesk releases. So Modo is an appealing alternative just because it isn't Autodesk.
if you are asking from the perspective of it's viability in the workplace - in all the studios i've been in modo had scarcely any presence and was only used by the odd person, mostly by people who were previously using lightwave and struggled with max/maya.
the app is not very young anymore either so i think it's safe to say that it missed it's window for making a real dent in the market.
that's obviously not to say that it isn't a capable app. no more commonly encountered in my experience than softimage or cinema 4d however.
Yeah, I'm only interested in the modelling. I'm happy to use Maya for everything else.
That pipe connector is the sort of reason I want to learn Modo. I probably just need more practice, but I feel like Maya just isn't cut out for alot of more complex high poly models. I think I could make that model you showed in Maya, but not without a lot of frustration.
I haven't really gotten used to it enough yet, but I'm definitely liking what I've used so far.
So it was big surprise to me when I tried it and found out that it lacks a lot of modeling tools I've got used to, working with 3ds max and Maya. Or lets say absence of convenient out of box tools to control polygon smoothing, which is unthinkable for modeling application.
Nonetheless as a hard surface artist I'm highly intrigued with this Mesh fusion thing.
when working in any established organisation it's probably easier to persuade them to aquire a license or two than go down this route tbh. that kind of stuff usually gives IT the creeps.
probably fine for a startup or a new business that hasn't been audited yet.
We're a 3DSMax studio here at work, but I've used Modo for bits and pieces here and there (any high poly modelling for one, some baking, retopo, UVing) and gone in/out via FBX without a hitch.
@Warren - Re:Smoothing - Have you used the Vertex Normal Kit? He updated it now and it's extremely fast and the easiest smoothing tool I've used in any modeling app. Only thing I need is better FBX export tools - pipelineio is pretty good but still has its hiccups.
@Hayden/Thread - I switched to Modo from Max around 6 months ago and love it. I work exclusively in it and have found it to be the best modeling and UV app out there.
The transition is definitely a lot harder than Maya to Max (which I did when I started at Epic) mainly because Modo handles a few things in a very different way (no history/modifier stack, falloffs, selections, action centers/pivots, items/layers, etc) and it's better to learn its ways (which are fantastic) than trying to conform it to previous workflows.
Yet, I still love working in it. :P
This. Coming from Max and Maya, my transistion to Modo was hard. It's something that someone that learned modelling in Modo won't ever feel, but since its conventions are different from Autodesk, yeah...I also agree on learning Modo's way is better than conform. I'm really curious to see what updates are coming for Modo 801.
What I would give for a "Modo for Max/Maya" users" tutorial though...
I almost always managed to get correct scaling/smoothing with FBX.2010 export into UDK by checking explicit normals and using farfarer's vertex normal kit. If it don't works then I re-save the fbx or re-import the mesh. I always triangulate the final mesh inside modo before exporting.
Raul's max style sg script is also very cool, it's more like an ui improvement for modo's default sg support.
There's tons of scripts for modo, I can't think of using modo without scripts.
Actually by default modo has the option to turn your keyboard shortcuts to match either maya or max, or keep modo, or set things up however you want. so jumping into it is actually pretty easy.
as for the smoothing groups, Ive had issues with unreal not recognizing them, but they are actually there, it just shoots out an error for some reason.
No shit. Since there are apparently a lot of people considering to try the package, no reason to not "show some ropes".
Found this page when I was learning and found a ton of useful tips. I don't know how old it is so maybe some scripts have been implemented already. "Perfect Circle" and "Subpatch Keep Selection" are absolute musts for me.
http://henningsanden.com/2013/03/31/how-to-optimize-modo-for-faster-modeling/
Scripts from Seneca(Quick Pipe is awesome).
http://www.indigosm.com/modoscripts.htm
Does any Modo user here use Trackball Rotation? I've heard some saying that it has advantages and enjoy it but it was the first default setting that I hated with passion lol.
Don't get me wrong, as a company, Luxology has been one of the best in terms of customer service, but it's obvious game art hasn't been their focus. Now that The Foundry took over, I don't see them focusing more on games at all. I hope I'm wrong because I really do like Modo as a concept. 801 should be just a few weeks away from release if they continue to follow the same schedule as the last release.
Everyone I work with swears by it. I had to turn it off though
The entirety of RAGE environments were built and assembled inside Modo. Level scripting/dynamic props/lighting were done in the level editor - but all static environment was built in Modo.
(wellspring area in modo)
that sounds cool
I just seem to hear all this talk about how using Modo is so fundamentally different from Max/Maya that I feel like I need it explained, if that makes any sense.
I've been considering grabbing the Steam version as an introduction since it's a bit hard to justify the cost of the full thing right now.
how does that stack up?
Modo was the first 3d modeling program I learned and I HATE trackball rotation. Feels too imprecise so I leave it off.
Modo is great for making game assets. The mesh reduction tool can shrink a mesh's resolution while keeping its form and UV map, the retoplogy pen makes retopo and even some modeling processes easy. It allows for creating, snapping and cutting geometry with ease. UVing has been the easiest I have seen so far, I get clean UVs extremely fast with very little need to tweak the final results. Sculpting works well enough for certain art styles, its very clean looking, though its no Zbrush. You can paint individual layers, such as diffuse, spec, emissive..ect in Modo, the painting tools are not bad either..a little buggy though at times.
In short, I get to stay in the package for almost everything without really losing out on the quality. I highly recommend it and from what I hear, they are aware of the needs and demands from the game artist out there. There was recently a Modo Steam Edition with the focus on game art, so it tells you its on their radar.
Also on one of the modo podcast, they admitted to needing to up their game in selling Modo's game side and that most of the staff over there were gamers as well.
In short, yes modo isnt perfect for game art, in fact I think few applications are, but it has its strengths and weaknesses... the strengths are awesome enough to warrant the switch and the weaknesses, well we can get around those.
Also I am surprised some think the baking quality is bad... I have had some great results with them. That said, nothing xnormal or substance designer cant fix if you dont get the results you need.
My impression is that 801 will be more game art friendly, and over time it will gain much more ground in the industry as a whole.
I wont lie, I found it to be useful in some situations. Like when sculpting or painting fine detail on a small mesh. Otherwise, off it goes. It really should be off by default.
I've kind of set Modo up to run a bit like Maya. Changed the navigation to Maya's and have a few custom pie menus that emulate what I had going in Maya's marking menus.
So far I'm finding it super easy to get into Modo. The only thing that weirds me out is having to hit escape all the time to deselect objects.
Having said that, the dynamic booleans plug-in may be a complete game changer...
why, was there a time released poison in my burrito bowl!?
How different is the steam version? If I try the 15 trial for the full Modo and like it, will the steam version be a letdown?
I wouldn't be using it for anything other than learning & playing around at home. I'm not a freelancer and it wouldn't fit into the pipeline at work at all so $1490 is just way too much for me to justify.
By no means I meant that you should swallow all the default settings to use the potential of the program. I still use Maya's navigation and mapped the command "viewport.maximize" to space bar to maximize a viewport just like in Maya. Just try to get the dexterity and speed you have in other programs while knowing Modo's fundamentals and you're good.
For latest versions of Seneca scripts, use this link instead:
(perfect circle, makepolygon, rotate-to-or-unrotate(duplicate subcommand) and viewport display toggles are a must for me)
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=32&t=64729
You can click to an empty spot in the viewport to deselect. For dropping the tools, spacebar is useful.
That's what I started with before getting a full license of 701. The steam version easily has enough to get in deep with Modo. The only thing you wont really be able to do is animate (and that will probably change in future versions), dynamics and Render outside of real time. Some stuff like Farfarer's vertext normal script work with the steam edition as well.
There's also work being done on finding an upgrade path from the steam edition to modo proper, so there's some value in getting the steam edition. For steam workshop stuff, it can still be used on its own as well, for UVs, retopo, baking..ect You can get some use out of it regardless of where you go with Modo proper.
I do. I disliked it initially but thought I'd leave it on just to see if I got used to it. It also helps a LOT if you understand how trackball works:
source
Of course, there are other schools of thought...
I use mostly default modo keyboard shortcuts (which I think are well thought out and worth adjusting to), but with a few changes. Instead of using spacebar as a pseudo drop tool button (default it cycles through selection modes, which I use the 1-7 keys for anyway) to 'remove'. Really helpful when removing lots and lots of edge loops as you don't have to move your left hand or take your right off the mouse, which is frantically selecting edges. Then I just use the default q to drop a tool. Took a while to get used to using spacebar this way but it was a definite improvement.
I've also bound shift+e to Bridge, a commonly used tool, and shift+f to Add Loop. And I have join verts to a mouse side button, perfect circle on another. In UV view though, the side buttons are for straighten (Still waiting on a way to straighten polygonal selections, which max can do excellently)
Some scripts I use heavily are Ariel Chai's (Svartberg) PipelineIO, Jame O'Hare's (Farfarer) Vertex Normal Toolkit, Texel Density Toolkit, Seneca's script package (Perfect Circle). ETERA uv tools have some time saving functions too, especially for arranging small tedious pieces.
EDIT: Although I just tried it now after reading your description above and it seems a lot more tolerable ... I might experiment with leaving it on and see how it feels.
System > Preferences > Display/OpenGL > Viewport Rotation > Untick "Trackball Rotation" and tick "Override Viewport-Level Trackball Option"
So i've been doing this month noob challenge, and I decided I do it all in modo.
So far modeling is awsome.
But there is one "small" issue.
I have mesh. It have around 6k tris and 3k vertices.
That is what the info in modo shows anyway. Now I export this mesh to UE4 in FBX, it have rougly 6k tris and drum drum drum, 15k vertices. WTF IS THAT !?
Ok I though it might be my fault.
So I exported mesh to imported the same mesh to 3ds max. So far so good, numbers are correct.
Now I exported from max and imported to UE4.... And numbers for mesh that was processed by 3ds max are also correct...
end of rant.
Luxology. Please fix your FBX export. It really can't be that hard.
I think I know what the issue might be/ When Exporting from max I get this message:
And boom. When I check preserve edge orientation it gives result similar to modo export.
I have by default this option disabled. I never seen it make any difference in end look.
I think it's definitely modo fault at this point. To be more specific it's fault of options lacking for fbx exporter ;/.
Just to be clear. I have exported using FBX2013.
Then imported to max 2013.
And exported from max 2013.
If I do it this way it works ok.
If I just export from modo and import to engine, it fails miserably by having atrocious amount of vertices.
I'm really convinced to the modo way at this point. But content exporting between various apps, is just bad.
It's really hard to believe, that creating proper FBX pipeline wasn't highest priority for new version ;/