Vertex normal problem in Maya.

CGloko

Hi,

I am using Maya 2013 and this is the first time I notice this problem. I would like to get a nice average of all the normals of my model in order to get a nice shading.

The "original" model has all its vertex normal pointing out or smooth and a nice shading.
When I try to replicate the same in maya on a copy of the same model by "unlock normals" and "soft edges" I do not get a correct average value for the normal directions.

When I do the same in Max by using the modifier "Smooth" then I get the correct values, the same result as in the original asset.

I have tested on different geometries and in maya the results are always wrong, it only works when smoothing a cube (same size for all faces may be?).

I could be something I am doing wrong when smoothing, I also have tested "average normals" with different values. To me it feels that maya is not taking all the edges around a vertice to calculate the normal direction.

Here is the scene https://www.dropbox.com/s/o94r66lo0t0sy1h/testNormals.mb

Thanks in advance!

warby

sometimes when i create a new object the transform rotate and scale values contribute somehow to the normals in a buggy wiered way ... have you tried "freeze transform" yet ?

also are there light sources in the scene right ?!

Bartalon

The problem stems from the extra triangle edges that are assumingly not present in the Max version (all quads). Match the edge flow and count exactly to the one in Max and your vertex normals should average properly.

You can see the changes in real time in Maya by deleting the triangle edges with vertex normals display on.

CGloko

warby wrote: »

sometimes when i create a new object the transform rotate and scale values contribute somehow to the normals in a buggy wiered way ... have you tried "freeze transform" yet ?

also are there light sources in the scene right ?!

Hi, I didn't think it might affect the normals but now I freezed transformations of all objects and deleted history and still getting the same weird normals. There are no lights in the scene.

Bartalon wrote: »

The problem stems from the extra triangle edges that are assumingly not present in the Max version (all quads). Match the edge flow and count exactly to the one in Max and your vertex normals should average properly.

You can see the changes in real time in Maya by deleting the triangle edges with vertex normals display on.

Hi, the mesh is the same in both, maya and max, triangulated in both cases.
Having your comment in mind I quadrangulated the mesh by hand and tried again and then I got much better smoothed normals in Maya, this seems not to affect Max, It gives the same result indepently if the mesh is triangulated or not.

Anyway Maya still not getting a good result on this particular mesh.

I have found this tool for maya http://www.castorlee.com/maya-tools/vertex-normal-control that in conjunction with "average normals" in maya gives a very close result of what you get with Max, I would say even better and keeping one smoothing group.

I am still fascinated of how arcaich Maya can be in some things where other 3d suites do much better...

Thanks a lot both for your help!

CheeseOnToast

I don't have Maya 2013 in front of me at the moment (we're still on 2012 here), but I seem to remember that they introduced a weighting system to vertex normals so that larger faces have more weight that smaller ones. That's the default setting, but you can turn it off.

That should hopefully fix your problems in future.

an173

CheeseOnToast said:

I don't have Maya 2013 in front of me at the moment (we're still on 2012 here), but I seem to remember that they introduced a weighting system to vertex normals so that larger faces have more weight that smaller ones. That's the default setting, but you can turn it off.

That should hopefully fix your problems in future.

Sorry about the massive bumb, but any idea where that option might be in Maya 2017?

Axi5

an173 said:

CheeseOnToast said:

I don't have Maya 2013 in front of me at the moment (we're still on 2012 here), but I seem to remember that they introduced a weighting system to vertex normals so that larger faces have more weight that smaller ones. That's the default setting, but you can turn it off.

That should hopefully fix your problems in future.

Sorry about the massive bumb, but any idea where that option might be in Maya 2017?

Select your object then:
Attribute Editor - Shape Node - Mesh Controls Rollout - Vertex Normal Method (Angle and Area Weighted - Default)

an173

Axi5 said:

an173 said:

CheeseOnToast said:

I don't have Maya 2013 in front of me at the moment (we're still on 2012 here), but I seem to remember that they introduced a weighting system to vertex normals so that larger faces have more weight that smaller ones. That's the default setting, but you can turn it off.

That should hopefully fix your problems in future.

Sorry about the massive bumb, but any idea where that option might be in Maya 2017?

Select your object then:
Attribute Editor - Shape Node - Mesh Controls Rollout - Vertex Normal Method (Angle and Area Weighted - Default)

Thank you very much, they sure know how to bury them things.