Talkative = Attractive (?)
interpolator
Hi guys, me and my friend recently just had a discussion about how important is it to be talkative inside a game industry. To be fair my experience only about 3 years in this industry and I'm on my first ever company now and her is like 6-7 years experience and already work in 2 other company before so total in 3 company.
So the problem is, I'm more of an introvert guy who enjoy being alone and not talk much on a daily basis so what she told me is that my future is screwed if I didn't talk more. But what I believe is that as long as I can produce good work and impress people, that's the main thing for me to continue climb up the curve of my carrier without the need to continue talking to promote own self (this is my latest personal project if anyone curious about what level I am right now). But please don't get me wrong, I will talk on the situation of discussing about work or sharing some knowledge, but just not so much on giving the impression of "hey I can be a leader" or busy body by checking other people's stuff and giving my thought about it without them asking for it, cus we also got this type of people in our company just for an example.
It gives me the question of what are the more important attitude to develop in this industry? Cus I love game so much and I do plan to work on game industry in a long time and give my contribution to something I love.
Thanks for anyone that read my random post
So the problem is, I'm more of an introvert guy who enjoy being alone and not talk much on a daily basis so what she told me is that my future is screwed if I didn't talk more. But what I believe is that as long as I can produce good work and impress people, that's the main thing for me to continue climb up the curve of my carrier without the need to continue talking to promote own self (this is my latest personal project if anyone curious about what level I am right now). But please don't get me wrong, I will talk on the situation of discussing about work or sharing some knowledge, but just not so much on giving the impression of "hey I can be a leader" or busy body by checking other people's stuff and giving my thought about it without them asking for it, cus we also got this type of people in our company just for an example.
It gives me the question of what are the more important attitude to develop in this industry? Cus I love game so much and I do plan to work on game industry in a long time and give my contribution to something I love.
Thanks for anyone that read my random post
Replies
Think of it this way, when you know people who are looking for work, who are you more likely to help? The people who you joked around with, grabbed the occasional lunch with or went to the pub after work and just generally socialized with; or the person that sat behind you for a year, barely talked to you and if they did it was only about work?
There's nothing wrong with being introverted and definitely nothing wrong with producing badass work quietly, just be sure that you're not coming off negatively for it; and, if you can or want to, do try to socialize more, I was relatively introverted throughout high school and I can tell you that coming out of my shell was a massive change for the better.
And hey that's me the dude with the headphone on all days haha.
Thanks~
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128264
Everyone is wired up a bit differently. Some people are more inclined to be chatty than others. Like you I'm naturally a quiet person, sometimes up to the point where it's fair to say people think I'm a little odd. You can get by like that, as long as you don't let it get in the way of your work. You'll find though, the more you push through it, the better you'll get along with people, collaborating will run more smoothly and you'll generally have a better time.
It's a tough thing to do, I know, but at the least you need to show people that you're not aloof and unfriendly, you're just quiet and you'll still be a good person to work with. Or employ.
There are plenty of people who don't ever shut up and never listen to anyone but themselves. These freakin chatterboxes aren't needed and often distract and pull people off task with a never ending stream babble. So being a social butterfly can hurt someone just as much as being the person that avoids interaction.
I think what your friend was trying to point out...
Is that you miss out of creative exchanges if you stay within your own head. You can be an introvert but you still need to realize and utilize the benefits of working in a creative environment.
Jackablade and that other thread touched on this...
Creative companies look for that and hope that artists are open enough to let the creativity flow between other workmates. Typically if someone is mature enough to discuss something creative with other people, without being pensive and worried, they will be open to making changes and when someone suggests doing something slightly different they won't be wounded and hurt, they will see the idea for what it is and run with it.
ProTip: Almost all artists are introverts.
Even the ones that look outgoing and at ease, still need time to recharge.
http://www.intellectualbubblegum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/how_to_live_with_introverts_guide_printable_by_sveidt-d5b09fj.jpg
Other introverts know how painful it can be...
to pull another introvert into something they don't want to be a part of. People will hold back constructive criticism (that will help you improve) if they think it will crush your soul. This stunts your growth and it stunts the creative environment.
Like in that TED talk, he has a moment where he realizes that a lot of the weird and awkward moments, where coming from him because he wasn't allowing himself to connect with other people. "What if all that weirdness that was in that room was coming from me..." It kind of was, you're weirdness triggered their weirdness and no one felt comfortable. When they encounter someone who is pensive and guarded it reminds them of the things they have to struggle with and things can easily get weird, fast.
When it comes to interviews and who to hire...
Most people will shy away from people who need a lot of work in this area. They know how it holds people and the group back. They know their awkwardness will be picked up by others and that they might regress or interact with the new person less if they think the creative process will hurt them.
The current employees and management will need to expend extra time and energy to pull someone out of their own head and introduce them to the group creative process. Keep in mind that most artists are introverts and that spending energy on other people when they would rather be making their own energy can be quite draining.
Put yourself in their shoes.
You have a group that works really well together.
1) Group creativity. Creative ideas flow and a single idea bounced off of other people becomes much more than what one person could have thought of.
2) Creative problem solving. Instead of people spending hours banging their head on a keyboard they throw their problem out to the collective and get help.
3) Improved processes. Processes improve and everyone tends to work in the best way possible instead of in 5-10 different and separate competing ways that might not be optimal. A bunch of separate procedures can introduce different quality standards and even weird bugs that are hard to fix.
3) Dangers to the group dynamic. Almost all of these people come from a vulnerable place and "their art" grew out of them, its only natural for them to protect it. They've had to work on opening it up to others. They could easily go running back to those places if the wrong person enters the mix. Hiring a dick will certainly ruin everything but hiring an extremely introverted person can taint things too.
You can still be an introvert and join in the collective creative process.
Personally I REALLY like working with those kinds of people. They work hard, they don't chat you up endlessly about bullshit stuff and they do participate in collective creativity when needed.
You do have to allow yourself to be open with other people and take criticism well. 95% of the time they are people who have been vetted by the company and aren't dicks. They won't bite and they'll know where you're coming from but you have to be willing to meet them at least half way otherwise it will be a hard road to landing and keeping a job.
Some studios are asking their workers to do on-camera interviews for promotional purposes. Cloud Imperium youtube channel has lots of this. I remembered this one below, in particular. The artist being interviewed is talented no doubt based on his online portfolios but looks uncomfortable doing the video. I don't think it's a strike for his career but I think it would help him "sell" himself better (to other pros who don't know him, recruiters, etc.) if he did a better job being aware how he comes across a viewer and project confident communication skills.
Having well narrated tutorial videos can work as well to demonstrate speaking ability.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_A7abvKW8c
And damn, I like the video on the thread u linked there!
@Stinkfoot - Wait, what a funny name haha. Hey man, I don't even know how to tell a joke. I know that funny people are generally more easy to accept on a community, but it gotta be something nice too about quiet people don't you think?
Click on your portfolio link, damn I can straight away tell that SwatKats character! Miss that cartoon series!
@Mark - Wow, Mark thanks for the words man. The thing with me is just slightly more harder to open and get close to people. I can talk fine, I have no problem at all throwing smile at people, but just harder to first trigger the conversation, it's just those "blank" moment if you know what I mean..hmmm....people that actually do close to me find me as a guy who fun to bully (in a good and positive way, I mean hehe)..I just lack the trigger to start the interaction, it seems.
Hmmmm...it's something that I have to think and change accordingly for a long term goal i guess..
@fonfa - nah, I didn't drink beer so that's not an option lol
@MagicSugar - Being an easy going people is definitely a benefit for career as everybody (well almost everybody) will like to have you on their days. Well it does feel unfair sometimes..as I'm selling my 3d skills and not talking skills, but now I do realize the 2 actually interconnected
I've worked with people that's introvert and shy, or just introvert. Most have been awesome to work with in the sense that they tend to be very hard working artists. But some have been a pain to work with. Pain in the sense of communication cause of there "in there own head" mode. Steaming trough stuff you are collaborating on, on there own. Resulting in wasted hours.
Constantly trying to include people in "everything" is draining a lot of energy. (And eventually you stop trying.) With other words, I'll choose to hang out with someone else. That is obviously a personal preference though.
In the sense of "hireabilety", I'd choose someone I thought would be a great team player. Someone that would share there ideas and could respond to critique in a constructive way. If I get the vibe you'r a cowboy, I wouldn't recommend you to my own team. Even though you'r the absolute top artist there is.
No, I understand if you don't drink for whatever reason, people should be able to respect that. Keep in mind though that a lot of people consider whether or not they'd have a beer with you as a big qualifier for whether or not they like you. Even if you are only going to order a diet coke it's still a good idea to get out and socialize with people.
I know there are a lot of weird/awkward people in this industry and a lot of it stems from spending every moment of free time either playing video games or sitting alone in front of a computer. even when the opportunity to go out and do something is presented its easier to stay home in a bubble of comfort rather than go out and socialize. social skills are just that : skills. any time you learn anything its going to be uncomfortable and take some effort.
I used to be like that, rather stay home and watch movies, play video games, browse the interent and it eventually made me start to feel a bit weird and awkward as my somewhat lack of experience in big social situations made me feel....well kinda lame. So I decided it was time to cut the shit and time to take massive action to improve my lifestyle.
I get the "but im an introvert, im just like that!" excuse but I think it gets thrown around far too much as an excuse to stay comfortable, not work on yourself and sometimes be lazy as fuck. your brain has the capability to rewire itself with work and thats exactly what it takes. work and effort. I used to be super introverted but after forcing myself to go out multiple times a week instead of feeling pathetic sitting at home by myself, now I actually look forward to the insanity a night out can bring.
I get the blanking out on what to say in conversation and a lot of the time that comes from a lack of self confidence and not putting value on what you have to say. try being unfiltered and talk about whatever is in your mind. also actually listen to what people are saying instead of sitting there trying to think of what you are going to say next, that will usually mess you up more. if you can talk about anything with passion and not worring if other people are going to like it people will usually find you engaging.
perfect example: I used to worry about what to say when I got into the pickup community and cold approaching girls at bars/clubs/on the street etc. I would be so focused on what to say next I would be disjointed from the interaction and seem weird. nowdays I talk about whatever I want and because I'm actively engaged in it, I could be talking about how I make video games for a living to a bomb ass stunner at a bar who has no idea about it and they are just sitting there staring up with big eyes hanging on attentively to every word. it just comes down to assuming you have value as a human being and taking action to improve yourself. doesnt happen over night but looking back 3-4 years ago I am night and day different from my former shy lonely self.
also, get some hobbies outside of video games/movies/3d art. not only will it give you more to talk about that is relatable to other people it will make you a more rounded, attractive person to others, because you are living your life in a badass way.
It's not that being introvert will end ones career, it's just that it will limit it to being that artist who takes his task makes the asset, and then resets back to square one, it's hard to get anywhere without actively partaking in work.
Breaking out from the introvert jail and working around massive ADHD procrastination helped with pretty much everything for me and even though I can see myself slipping back into familiar and very comfortable patterns or solitude I try to stay away from that.
Auh pixel-masher, if only life was so simple. Where we could all go 'you are not tryin hard enough' using only your own experiences as the judgement call. Than anyone can be just like you and your friends but they aren't trying because they fail to fall in. Your bit about video games playing and lack of interaction is psychologically just wrong. What you list are symptons, not causes. Im even surprised someone working in this would attempt the blame game. Your also making it harder with your suck it up attitude for people to come out of their shells. You need to allow them to go at their own pace. Re inviting them once in awhile to your shindigs without any judgement on their decision would be a good place to start.
Also gotta say, Shintu the bit it about going to the bar and being judged as a trolodite otherwise if one declines comes from that same "everyone can and should be me/we".
If people continue to want to be introverted thatst totally fine and I respect their choice, but people who are saying they feel awkward and want to fit in more well then there really isnt a magic pill solution. its going to take work. In most cases your worst enemy is the front door, once you actually get out its not as bad as the scenarios your mind can cook up.
You have to conciously make the descision to change things you dont like about yourself. skinny and frail? well you cant sit there on the couch taking supliments and not going to the gym and expect to get jacked. same as going to the gym 2 times and then expecting to lose a ton of weight overnight. its always painful but over time you build up the mental fortitude to cut through that and your actions/thoughts/words all become more instinctual as you exercise your skillset.
social skills are like a muscle that you need to work on over time. and yea for sure start at your own pace, could be as simple as talking to a cashier at a coffee shop for 30 seconds or focusing on better eye contact while talking, more relaxed body language etc.
I had a conversation with a co-worker about this at lunch about how looking back I consider my behaviour pretty weak/pathetic in my late teens and early 20s because I would avoid invitations to go out and have fun and rather stay in and game. he said its a horrible way of looking at myself and my response to that was: Let me be clear, I in no way consider myself to be pathetic or a loser but those behaviours were clearly anti social, and contributing to lonleyness and a weak sense of self worth/confidence. so I decided to change the behaviour just like changing a set of clothes and focus on becoming as much of a boss in terms of lifestyle and getting what I wanted out of life no matter how painful it was. I basically set a standard for the life I wanted to achive and forced accountability on myself. Rather than blame any external factors.
Im not blaming video games as a cause of this they are a symptom for sure. its like comfort food, a lot of the time you know its not helping you towards your goal but its so much easier/fun to do in the moment than step outside your comfort zone even though your end goal would probably be much more rewarding. its short term thinking vs long term. I dont judge people based on how they live their life, I do however give mad props to people who can admit they are not where they are at and take massive action to get there.
Dont get my wrong I love playing video games but when video games/watching tv/sitting in front of a screen becomes what you do 95% of the time I would consider that a pretty unfulfilling existance for me personally due to what I want out of my life. Im not projecting myself on the OP on anyone here, merley offering my personal experiences on the matter for anyone whos posting/lurking who is interesting in changing their lifestyle and becmoing more social.
They have to realize they have an issue first though.
What you can do is provide them the opportunities, over and over. Even if they decide not to come. Its a two way street.
Simplification at its best. What if the person doesn't know they have an issue? A great example is someone who is very into the Autistic Spectrum. They simple don't implicitly understand without being taught that what they do is socially awkward. It would be like asking a unknown color blind person to see numbers on a color test they see nothing. Without telling them it is a color test. They need something outside of themselves to help them. Such as being told so they then at that point having that information can choose what to do.
Agreed, as long as we both agree that for some, even with practice, it will never seem natural to them. It will be a chore they must partake.
I should point out that is a common misconception of the meaning of anti-social. Anti-social is actually acting out against society. Some forms of criminality are examples. Being introverted is not anti-social, its null-social at best. You also can make those judgements about yourself from your current perspective, but do you think you might be forgetting with the distance of time there where other things at work as well? Like I said, you seem to talking about symptoms as the problem versus the problem itself. What caused you to become introverted in the first place? Is that instead what you eventually overcame with time versus simply stop being lonely and playing games? Your listing your results as the cure, versus the actual series of events that helped you break out of your cycle.
This is where the crux of my disagreement with you lies. You are making a series of assumptions not based on human psychology, but instead your own personal experience to make judgement over others you see as in the same situation as yourself. Its self serving at best.
As long as you make your experience about you, and you alone. But again, your still offering a disservice by listing your decision to become social as the fulcrum. Without offering the much more complex underpinnings which lead to that. Something changed in you, and it was more than making that decision alone. People need to get through these first before your decision. That's why I think your not helping by listing that it was a decision by you that changed it. People have to be at that point to make that decision, if you tell them it before they are at that level,it can make suffering for them more as they think they aren't as good a person because they can't immediately see it.
Im getting into WoT territory, so signing out of this thread before it becomes long winded like some other recent ones *cough*used games*cough.
We can come up with alot of specific examples of people having mental problems,but Pixel seems like he's talking about the average normal gamer guy that's complaining about not being social enough while playing video games for 40 hours a week. Yes some people are autistic, and that requires a whole different approach to curing social anxiety. There's also people that have lost family members or loved ones that require a unique social program to get through their anguish. There's also people that have lost limbs or one of their senses that need a whole other type of social program to help them move on...... I can keep going. It's complicated. We get it. "Simplification at it's best" lol
He wasn't writing a book on the unique psychology approaches needed for each mental symptom or how to get through traumatic experiences that happened when you were a child. He was giving random tidbits that he's learned from self-help books on the subjects of getting more motivation and becoming social.
Yes it's obviously a decision that the person has to make on their own. If they're writing a post on polycount about not being social enough, I would assume that they're open to some suggestions. Where are yours? All I've heard from you is, "You're wrong" and "You're wrong". Oh and, "You're wrong".
on the topic of people having to realize they have an issue first, the fact this thread exists is a pretty good indicator that people are aware of it. As for the underlying factors that caused my initial super introverted behaviour, I could sit there all day trying to think of them and find external sources to blame on why I ended up like that but that would all be stuff in the past I cant change now and would personally seem more like an excuse to procrastinate and find validation for the way I was.
For me it just came down to not having the skills with women and social circle I wanted. To put it simply, I wanted to have an awesome sex life. I had always had a steady girlfriend but usually ended up in a toxic relationship that I was afraid to get out of out of a pureley scarce mindset. I wanted more, I wanted insane adventures, threesomes, the confiedence to talk to whoever I wanted be it fellow co workers, my bosses or anyone I would meet on a night out on the town. I was tired of being the guy in the corner of the party with his drink held to his chest pretending to check my cellphone every couple mins to appear to have some social value. My average friday night used to be me sitting at home, alone playing video games and wanking away to internet porn. nowdays its more likely to be out with friends, dancing up on the bar with girls etc. and to me personally (i feel like I need to qualify every statement with that now) its 10x more fun.
Oxy, you mentioned that sometimes reading this stuff could possibly make people feel worse. I can see that, but sometimes things have to get shitty enough where your brain takes hold and forces you to change something. Literally sometimes you have to get to the point where you can fully admit you suck shit at something before you are willing to let go of your old patterns/habits/thoughts and open yourself to new mindsets. for me it came down to : cut the shit, the past is the past, time to put in the effort to rewire myself.
The hard part is you cant expect people to help you before you even attempt to help yourself. So many peolpe in all aspects of their lives seek people to give them a magic pill, or put them on the right path without investing anything themselves first. funny enough that type of leech behaviour is exactly why people dont want to help them.
Thats why when I see someone here on polycount busting their ass i/many others here will stop to drop some in depth feedback and contribute to their development, they took the first step in helping themselves. On the other hand threads filled with people deflecting any and all feedback with excuses and justification and "ill keep it in mind for my next project" well......you never really see those people improve, until they day they finally admit they need help and start taking action on critiques to improve. a classic example of that is AE. I think hes been humble enough to admit it multiple times that that behavior was a hinderance and now he is a mother fuckin art gangsta!
the cool thing is usually with anything you hate, like going out and socializing, working out or even doing UVs, working through that pain period and forcing yourself to do it eventually you will realize outta the blue one day you are actually looking forward to the very thing you used to hate. and even if you dont enjoy the process you have the mental fortitude built up to blast through it and get'er done. after all this yea sometimes I have nights where I dont really want to go out or meet up with friends, but now I have the mental ability to recognize that old behaviour sneaking back in and thats usually all it takes for me to hop up off the couch and out the front door.
T.M.I.
I guess ill just go back to talking about the latest raid I did in WoW, rather than having an open discussion on any and all forms of human interaction. ahhh im kidding
edit: All this stuff on being social is also HIGHLY applicable to anyone wanting to go the indie route. You are going to need to network you ass off, be able to make hard descisions and be able to exude confidence and be self assured in any type of business meeting. in order to get funding, exposure for your game and drastically increase the chance of sucess for your game you need to be able to walk into any situation and interact smoothly.
Thought it was implicit.
In short, tell the story, the whole story. Not just the life situation at the time that the person. Lead up to that decision, and then what steps were taken to start it. Who and what situations helped you? No man is an island. What you do now to not fall back into such. In short, just don't over-simplify.
(Pixel gave most of it with his follow up. Just giving I hope a better explanation for lincoln)
Please let me leave this thread. I really doooon't want to get into tiresome volleyball of arguments.
(Pixel, totally agree on the Indie, bit... ugh, going through it now).
I agree that people will find a different situation to face in their life/ overcome different problem along the way but what PixelMasher said is just as his personal experience sharing and I appreciated it as well.
Haha, be peace, I'm sorry for starting the thread, life must go on and get back to work
Think about it, you are "talking" in public with us.
Being comfortable in your corner is your choice.
As a career point of view: You can be a lead or a specialist, you can choose your path. Leads take the time to talk/discuss, specialists take their time alone to learn/research. There's also leads that are specialists. Being a pure specialist it's not bad, but sometimes can bother you or others, although your lead/colleagues will have a hard time getting info from you, etc. You could fit in one of those depending on what you want and what your personality get's you into.
I probably said the same as others here, but that's my personal view.
Thanks for that explanation pixel. I really needed it to show me what you meant. I also really needed oxynary to point that out for me. Thanks. Oh thanks again in case anybody didn't notice that i was thankful. Sheesh, try not to oversimplify pixel. You know how much that frustrates Oxynary. Oh and try not to be an island. Thanks Oxynary, you're the man.
It tends to start things.