Hey guys, I have a question about making the low poly for the rocks. I'd show you images, but I'm doing this at work.
Making the low poly model concerns me. I've tried using Meshlab, and it's given me mixed results (like overlapping geo and other issues), making the meshes unusable without a lot of cleanup. The decimation master in zbrush seems to do better, but I still get somewhat mixed results there too and have to clean it up. How do all of you go about making your low poly models? Especially Sebvhe, that is really impressive!
My other issue is when I bake the normal maps. I get ugly artifacts/triangles in the bake, and I'm not sure if it's what I'm baking in (xnormal), my uvmap, or the LP mesh itself. I've tried creating cages from the low polys too and I get the same results with the ugly artifacts.
What is your process of making the low poly models and baking the maps for getting clean results? For production sake, I'm hoping the process is fairly simple and streamlined.
For my big rocks I think it's just the regular decimation master and a little bit of cleaning, there was like 2-3 little artifacts. It works well because I don't have any holes or little rocks/objects, Everything is one big and quite simple mesh.
For the small rocks, decimation master gave me awful result (and that was predictable since all the little stones put on each other to make a rock create a lot of holes and concavity) so I just retopologized by hand in 3d-Coat. This was rather time consuming, I should find other ways to do that.
The baking is pretty simple, I just let the xNormal's Ray Distance Calculator run for a few minutes and I get almost no artifacts. I don't have any hard edges in my smoothing groups. I got some triangles artifacts in Marmoset (like if my rock was only hard edged) but it's only noticeable when you are close enough. You can easily avoid that in Toolbag 2 by changing the normal map type (or something like that) in the mesh options. I still haven't tried my rocks on any other engine so I might still get that issue later ...
Oh and those few last rocks are mindblowing by the way
Sebvhe, I would use a cage for best results.. I tend to use Zrememsher to remove any mesh Integrity issues an get a even distribution, that way you wont likely have overlapping an strange distribution of the Polys.
@ Makkon : I don't know much about UV and artifacts in the bake. Do you get your artifacts the same in multiple engines ?
@armykillswitch : You're right I must admit I don't know much about cages... I always feel like it will take much more time to create the cage than it will take to fix a few artifacts.
And you're also right about Zremesher or something like that. I was thinking about 3DCoat's voxels features to clean my topology.
In Xnormal to get a cage, is go to 3d viewer after you pick your LP and HP, check show cage, edit cage then use the cage global extrusion to push out the cage so it covers the entire mesh, Save meshes as a Sbm and then bake away.
Well, until I figure out how to properly bake, here's some zbrush tests I did using the Trim Smooth Border brush with a square alpha and Clay Buildup, with a bit of Orb Crack.
Hey guys, thought I would upload a rock I made today. Its my first rock ever, and there are some butt ugly seams... But on the other hand, it has some fancy coloured lights! So.. it's something.
Here are some rocks I sculpted for a scene I am working on. These are the low poly baked results. Mind the low-resolution diffuse map, it was just for testing purposes.
Now that is a prime example of what you can do when you sculpt a good rock. Excellent work, Prophecies!
Could I ask you about your low-poly creation (and uvmap) and baking process?
Thanks, man!
It was a fairly simple process. I merely used Decimation Master to get the low poly mesh density I wanted. My rock hovers around the 700 tri mark. In this particular case, I didn't bother cleaning the decimation master result, and I didn't get any artifacts anywhere. I could probably drop the polycount down to around 600 tri's without noticing any difference, but speed was of the essence.
I'll probably get around to cleaning it up/optimizing and rebaking soon. Because it is a static mesh that won't be deformed, decimation master worked flawlessly. It's such a great tool for organic objects.
As for the UV mapping, it is all unwrapped with a single UV island. Because of the type of rock I sculpted, the seams were easy to hide/place in the corners/rock intersections. There is not a single seam that covers a large flat area of the rock, so essentially, the AO and Normal map hide the seams on their own.
For the UV process, I used UV Master in Zbrush to paint the seams where I wanted to, and baked in xNormal.
@ MrNinjutsu - That is a pretty sweet looking sculpt. The only problem is going to be getting a decent resolution out of the bake. This is an issue in general with doing sculpted rocks. Its hard to get good resolution without keeping them medium-small size according to player scale. Even with a 2048, you're going to find that it won't be close to enough resolution to give you a nice texture at that size. (at least if its in a game where you can walk up to it and look at it. For a top down game, it would be different.) You might get away with doing that rock as a baked down texture and then using some kind of detail diffuse/normal that fades in at closer range to overlay higher res rock detail over your low res large texture.
I have found, to get a rock formation like you are trying to do there, that it is better to either use several smaller baked rocks crashed together to get the same shape, do it all with tiling textures, or a combination of both tiling textures on a big mesh with some sculpted rocks mixed in for shape.
This all only really applies if you're doing this for a game asset.
Anyways, these are just some challenges I have found as I have done rocks for games. Looks good tho! Look forward to seeing what you do with it.
I have a quick question for everyone that creates awesome rocks:
How do you go about unwrapping it the best way possible, so that seems and such aren't noticeable at all once in the preferred editor? I always seem to get some seems that, while not always totally noticeable, are there and just bug the hell out me. Whats the best approach at doing the unwraps?
Hey guys, I finally decided to get around to making some rocks as sculpting practice and as overall workflow practice as well. I think they came out pretty well for my first two rocks.
I am still having trouble actually sculpting details into the rocks. I can't seem to control the intensity at which an alpha or brush eats away at the mesh while I am sculpting. I'm still trying to work out how to fix this if anyone has any suggestions. I am using a mouse by the way.
Hey guys, I finally decided to get around to making some rocks as sculpting practice and as overall workflow practice as well. I think they came out pretty well for my first two rocks.
I am still having trouble actually sculpting details into the rocks. I can't seem to control the intensity at which an alpha or brush eats away at the mesh while I am sculpting. I'm still trying to work out how to fix this if anyone has any suggestions. I am using a mouse by the way.
Zbrush or Mudbox?
Its pretty simple (in zbrush anyway) to control brush intensity's. Hold space bar down and adjust the sliders.
If you are using the "Standard" brush for Alphas, set it to drag react (this is also personal preference, but I feel it gives you the best control). You can also just subtract from the intensity by using things like Morph Target and the Morph brush after sculpting details into your asset.
Something else you may perhaps find useful is the Layers, after adding detail onto a layer reduce the opacity of said layer. Though this only applies if you are using Zbrush
Oh also, get a tablet (even something cheap like a little Wacom Bamboo)
I am only a beginner zBrush user myself, but to me it feels like a tablet is essential, especially for that fine detail. Can you control intensity with a mouse?
I think sculpting is only possible with tablet. Because You have this sensitivity control. With mouse you have only 0-1 input, which is click or non-click (sorry for my english).
Also with tablet you have more control with the shape of sculpt, it's more organic, more natural.
If you want to control of alpha intensity, just press Space, and change the intensity of brush.
Also to control only the alpha: go to Alpha > modify, And there you have contrast, brightness, etc.
C&C Welcome as i got stuck, love the rocks people, this guy is supposed to be entirely rocks (Meteorites), my 2nd time making rocks, i should have viewed the how to make rocks thread but i didn't know it existed till i was already done.:(
Live and learn, hope you like anyway, i have no problems redoing work where needed.
Replies
For the small rocks, decimation master gave me awful result (and that was predictable since all the little stones put on each other to make a rock create a lot of holes and concavity) so I just retopologized by hand in 3d-Coat. This was rather time consuming, I should find other ways to do that.
The baking is pretty simple, I just let the xNormal's Ray Distance Calculator run for a few minutes and I get almost no artifacts. I don't have any hard edges in my smoothing groups. I got some triangles artifacts in Marmoset (like if my rock was only hard edged) but it's only noticeable when you are close enough. You can easily avoid that in Toolbag 2 by changing the normal map type (or something like that) in the mesh options. I still haven't tried my rocks on any other engine so I might still get that issue later ...
Oh and those few last rocks are mindblowing by the way
@armykillswitch : You're right I must admit I don't know much about cages... I always feel like it will take much more time to create the cage than it will take to fix a few artifacts.
And you're also right about Zremesher or something like that. I was thinking about 3DCoat's voxels features to clean my topology.
As seen here
[ame="
http://goote.ch/QEnLopoiS0GSfrrf8aomaQ/
If you click the link you can look at it in a 3D view as well!
Same rock, mashed together.
Could I ask you about your low-poly creation (and uvmap) and baking process?
Thanks, man!
It was a fairly simple process. I merely used Decimation Master to get the low poly mesh density I wanted. My rock hovers around the 700 tri mark. In this particular case, I didn't bother cleaning the decimation master result, and I didn't get any artifacts anywhere. I could probably drop the polycount down to around 600 tri's without noticing any difference, but speed was of the essence.
I'll probably get around to cleaning it up/optimizing and rebaking soon. Because it is a static mesh that won't be deformed, decimation master worked flawlessly. It's such a great tool for organic objects.
As for the UV mapping, it is all unwrapped with a single UV island. Because of the type of rock I sculpted, the seams were easy to hide/place in the corners/rock intersections. There is not a single seam that covers a large flat area of the rock, so essentially, the AO and Normal map hide the seams on their own.
For the UV process, I used UV Master in Zbrush to paint the seams where I wanted to, and baked in xNormal.
Thanks, I just made a couple alpha brushes for the groves and small details. I am hoping that they come through when I bake it out.
I have found, to get a rock formation like you are trying to do there, that it is better to either use several smaller baked rocks crashed together to get the same shape, do it all with tiling textures, or a combination of both tiling textures on a big mesh with some sculpted rocks mixed in for shape.
This all only really applies if you're doing this for a game asset.
Anyways, these are just some challenges I have found as I have done rocks for games. Looks good tho! Look forward to seeing what you do with it.
How do you go about unwrapping it the best way possible, so that seems and such aren't noticeable at all once in the preferred editor? I always seem to get some seems that, while not always totally noticeable, are there and just bug the hell out me. Whats the best approach at doing the unwraps?
In ZBrush there is something like painting from Photo, then u can use your diffuse map :thumbup:
In Mudbox
UDK
Great textures! Incredible details!
cheers,
K
Would love to hear any feedback
I am still having trouble actually sculpting details into the rocks. I can't seem to control the intensity at which an alpha or brush eats away at the mesh while I am sculpting. I'm still trying to work out how to fix this if anyone has any suggestions. I am using a mouse by the way.
Zbrush or Mudbox?
Its pretty simple (in zbrush anyway) to control brush intensity's. Hold space bar down and adjust the sliders.
If you are using the "Standard" brush for Alphas, set it to drag react (this is also personal preference, but I feel it gives you the best control). You can also just subtract from the intensity by using things like Morph Target and the Morph brush after sculpting details into your asset.
Something else you may perhaps find useful is the Layers, after adding detail onto a layer reduce the opacity of said layer. Though this only applies if you are using Zbrush
Oh also, get a tablet (even something cheap like a little Wacom Bamboo)
Maybe look into one of the monoprice tablets: http://www.monoprice.com/Search/Index?keyword=tablet
Also- your rocks are looking great so far!
Also with tablet you have more control with the shape of sculpt, it's more organic, more natural.
If you want to control of alpha intensity, just press Space, and change the intensity of brush.
Also to control only the alpha: go to Alpha > modify, And there you have contrast, brightness, etc.
And dont use the mouse, for organic sculpt.
C&C Welcome as i got stuck, love the rocks people, this guy is supposed to be entirely rocks (Meteorites), my 2nd time making rocks, i should have viewed the how to make rocks thread but i didn't know it existed till i was already done.:(
Live and learn, hope you like anyway, i have no problems redoing work where needed.
And here is some sick Rotation Action!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfLJvcB9Y5c&feature=youtu.be
1264 tris and 1024² Diffuse/Normal (no Spec for the moment) for the 4 meshes.
I'll start building the cave tomorrow.
@mettigel, I think you can have way less polygons on that rock without any noticeable effect (unless this is a really big rock)
That first rendering looks almost like a painting. How did you go about rendering that?