Phil Fish had the audacity to reply to ridiculous amounts of vitriol and personal attacks in kind. This made everything worse of course, but it's extremely shitty that it's expected of him to just take it and not reply to any of the bullshit people pull.
He responded to a personal, non-constructive attack on him and his art with "suck my dick" and a steam boycott based on people feeling entitled to pre order Fez for less than 9$ with the 90$ shit. He says what I'm pretty fucking sure a lot of devs on the receiving end of this shit wants to say but can't because of PR and "gaming jurnalizm" blowing shit out of proportion and biased reports.
It's very sane, when you'd go to your workplace and vent all the time it would end up poisoning the environment and cost you your job, no matter how right you were.
The reason developers won't even go there is because the only ones they'll end up hurting is themselves, they'll focus on the boat-loads of positive fans.
Why does the consumer have a right to act like a fucking asshole and attack people? Why can't he reply in kind?
Phil only responded to threats and hate in an equally assholish way, as is his right as the target of baseless personal attacks. Some of his personal opinions have been said in a stupid fucking manner sure, but the guy is passionate for his game, probably too passionate. Sure it's not "Professional" but I really find the whole idea that the creators should bend over and take it while consumers can just say whatever, despite being non-contributing parasites, to be completely ridiculous.
It's a downward spiral, everyone knows this, Fish got caught up in it and thus every twitter'ing from his side would end up targeting everyone.
The 101 of PR is that everything you say and everything that goes on the internet will reach all your fans, customers and potential customers.
this reminds me of when he quit twitter forever. I'm getting quite tired of hearing about Phil..
back when Fez was announced and glimpses of it were emerging I was really psyched about playing it, and as I heard more and more from Phil it really took the edge off my enthusiasm. I ended up getting it in the steam sale and I actually regret it. I don't believe in 'the death of the author', works are linked to their creator, and honestly my impressions of who made the game has soured my appreciation and ability to enjoy it.
Why does the consumer have a right to act like a fucking asshole and attack people? Why can't he reply in kind?
Phil only responded to threats and hate in an equally assholish way, as is his right as the target of baseless personal attacks. Some of his personal opinions have been said in a stupid fucking manner sure, but the guy is passionate for his game, probably too passionate. Sure it's not "Professional" but I really find the whole idea that the creators should bend over and take it while consumers can just say whatever, despite being non-contributing parasites, to be completely ridiculous.
It feels good to attack them back but it gains you nothing but more abuse and a larger target on your back. It's never worth it. Never.
This is pretty much my reaction from the first few posts the other day, but i had more important things to do like look at cat gifs. Hes done no one but himself out of a job so eh/
if i remember rightly from the indie game movie, he said he wanted to make his own game because he didn't like working with other people.
i realise he now has quite a considerable amount of money, but i also can't think of any other employer who will want him after all of this. he's basically left with: make games or retire. in either case, nobody likes him.
if i remember rightly from the indie game movie, he said he wanted to make his own game because he didn't like working with other people.
i realise he now has quite a considerable amount of money, but i also can't think of any other employer who will want him after all of this. he's basically left with: make games or retire. in either case, nobody likes him.
Indeed, I watched that doco with my reasonably conservative parents and we were not very impressed with him by the time he was exclaiming that he would "fucking kill him!" when talking about if his ex-business partner would show up to Fez's debut.
this reminds me of when he quit twitter forever. I'm getting quite tired of hearing about Phil..
back when Fez was announced and glimpses of it were emerging I was really psyched about playing it, and as I heard more and more from Phil it really took the edge off my enthusiasm. I ended up getting it in the steam sale and I actually regret it. I don't believe in 'the death of the author', works are linked to their creator, and honestly my impressions of who made the game has soured my appreciation and ability to enjoy it.
To make up the bad taste in your mouth, you could always buy Dust An Elysian Tale?
That's what I did with my spare cash, might as well go to someone who didn't have alot of the success but was humble by, then another person
Someone needs to talk to this guy about the negative reinforcement of trolls, there should be some sort of class available to people on how to deal with these situations and not lose their shit.
Someone needs to talk to this guy about the negative reinforcement of trolls, there should be some sort of class available to people on how to deal with these situations and not lose their shit.
Or we just let them filter themselves out of our industry on their own.
Seriously though, with the money this guy made, he'll be alright for the rest of his life. I feel no sympathy for a guy with millions of dollars.
How good would anyone in this thread fare if the unwashed masses went over every one of your social media posts, including forum posts, with a fine-toothed comb?
I just feel really sad, about all of this. When an unstoppable force (negativity) meets an immovable object (ego), an indie game gets canceled and a reputation is forever ruined.
I like Polycount because, unlike most of the internet, people here try to focus on the positive. I grew up here, and I have all of you to thank for my artistic maturity as well as my maturity in general. I've learned how to take criticism, how to look at my own work with a critical eye, and how to appreciate good art.
Not every developer is so lucky to have that kind of upbringing.
Justin: I think I'd fare pretty well. Might be a fun game to play to look at your old posts and see how you feel now about what you said then. It'd be a sobering experience for sure.
I watched that indie game movie, and Fish really needs to learn to man the fuck up. xD He just took everything to heart, and you can't do that otherwise the world will rip you to shreds. I reckon he'll be back, seems like he's throwing a hissy fit by doing what he's done.
How good would anyone in this thread fare if the unwashed masses went over every one of your social media posts, including forum posts, with a fine-toothed comb?
I agree, to some extent. I think it's obvious that he has some mental health issues, though. That, coupled with the "trollololol" mentality that is today's internet (more specifically gaming) culture, doesn't mix well at all.
To those that say he just needs to "learn" to suck it up, I'd say you need to understand that it may not be that simple. I think his posts and general nature are clear indicators that he needs help. At the very least, he's suffering from some serious depression, though I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually "on the spectrum".
Justin: I think I'd fare pretty well. Might be a fun game to play to look at your old posts and see how you feel now about what you said then. It'd be a sobering experience for sure.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Phil Fish is called racists simply by saying he thinks modern Japanese games suck. I know what my rep is, I usually joke about it at interviews "yeah, I spend a good amount of time yelling at people on Polycount"
wow... immaturity and unprofessionalism abound on both sides. In the games industry shocking! Ha.
Beer shouldn't have called them "hipster assholes" and "tosspots" for not expanding on a rumor. Keep that kind of crap out of your journalism.
In journalism you need access to sources and you don't need to be best buddies with everyone. With an attitude like that its no wonder he can't get a comment. Good luck getting future comments from other developers...
With that said Fish should have the maturity to not melt down on twitter, woa...
wow... immaturity and unprofessionalism abound on both sides. In the games industry shocking! Ha.
Beer shouldn't have called them "hipster assholes" and "tosspots" for not expanding on a rumor. Keep that kind of crap out of your journalism.
In journalism you need access to sources and you don't need to be best buddies with everyone. With an attitude like that its no wonder he can't get a comment. Good luck getting future comments from other developers...
With that said Fish should have the maturity to not melt down on twitter, woa...
Agreed. The guy wanted a comment, couldn't get it, and misinterpreted Fish's professionalism to not comment as douchey-ness. It's all really dumb and embarrassing that they both lost their cool.
I do feel bad for him because the media always takes his comments out of context and then blows it back in his face. Like the racism thing haha which actually had nothing to do with racism, just saying their design mechanics are dated.
Beer needs to rename his show to 'annoying gamer.' I used to like him and he's still the best thing on gametrailers but by god is he negative haha. I think he's let the persona get the better of him in this case and now thinks he can insult and swear about everyone. God forbid someone does it to him haha.
Fish still thinks he is small time but he's a figure head now due to his success and needs to realise he's gotta be a bit more tactile. But if I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to comment about xbone indie support either as it could have serious repercussions. He's already got gametrailers fan boys sending him abuse haha.
good lord. why can't anybody just keep their head down? Learn how to take abuse, man! there will always be somebody who hates you, even if you're the nicest guy in the world...and especially if you're outspoken and emotionally imbalanced *cough*
(the answer on how to take abuse, by the way, is GRACEFULLY)
That was a pretty good PA article. Thanks for the link!
Last week I watched the documentary Heckler about comedians and their relationship with critics, hecklers, and the internet. Very interesting perspective on this topic. I know I personally would hate to be surrounded by seething hate and negativity all day.
Internet only made this more accessible, that's it, articles that try and add their own spin to this issue as if it's something more are just doing that. I expected better then PA honestly.
Real classy also how they use the red-herring example of the COD patch and the death notes on that, when the two situations aren't anywhere near each other, let alone a basis of example in terms of issue, author, or people. One person has actual reason to be upset and do something about it, the other vortexed the issue himself.
The same way we hear about more murders and think the city we live in is about to become Detroit 2.0 with Robocop, we're simply getting more information everyday, instead of, oh say, I don't know, a letter about how your friend died and his funeral was a week ago, but the horse was too sick to bring it to you
Not to mention, the same happens with the movie industry, people sent death notes to one of the actress on the Sherlock series, because her character was going to marry one of the male character, and apparently, alot of people on Thumblr that like Fan-Fiction porn of the two leading male characters found that offensive
Also, the Penny Arcade article is wrong on several points, they're passively siding with Fish, here is a little bit of more depth information of what happened after the fiasco: http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/so-fez-ii/1100-4700/
Note a few parts, such as how Beer actually said lets make a part 2 of the video and talk it out, insults and all included, gloves off, free ring, Fish refused and proceeded to generate more issues on his behalf for no reason without ever going back to the original point.
Pretty sure if Fish stood his ground with Beer, in a video, he would have gotten his public apology, maybe followed by some actual beer (pun intended).
Phil Fish's problem is that I know who Phil Fish is. I don't follow who makes games. I couldn't tell you who made the last few games I've played (Tomb Raider, Far Cry 3, FTL [Some Kickstarter guy...s?], Sleeping Dogs). He constantly seems to be out there saying the sort of shit I am going to hear about because I read about gaming and it's always **extremely bad**. "I don't need your money for a PC port", "PCs are for spreadsheets", "Japanese games are trash." "Sorry Japanese guy, I meant to say what you make now is trash" etc.
If he could just shut the fuck up, turn off Twitter and Facebook and do his job, he'd be a lot happier. He likes the attention though -- positive and negative -- too much though, I think. It's also why I guarantee he'll be back by Christmas, at least on twitter and such fighting his good fight.
While Phil is a bit of a hot head, he still seems like a cool guy to me. Loved FEZ and I am sad to see him go. Hope he comes back and continues work on FEZ 2.
Last week I watched the documentary Heckler about comedians and their relationship with critics, hecklers, and the internet. Very interesting perspective on this topic. I know I personally would hate to be surrounded by seething hate and negativity all day.
"Don't be such a bitch. So you got bad reviews? Eh, its a good time, sitting in a jacuzi. Let's call some girls" - Deep Roy
The thing is, humans are very judgemental and shallow. It's not hard to empathise with Fish's situation and it's not hard to like his games and his merits as a designer. But whatever he does or says is all we're going to get to know about it and that's what will inform our snap-judgements.
So when "person I haven't met 1" acts like an asshole to "person I haven't met 2" I of course think that "person I haven't met 1" is an asshole. Then "person I haven't met 2" responds and guess what now we have 2 assholes.
It's sad because it's all shallow and snap-judgements and if we did the research or if the information is accessible, we'd know that one was too harsh and the other a victim, or that one has social/mental issues etc etc.
So really like that video in the PA report, 9 times out of 10 when seeing some confusing squabble we think "that's some crazy people" instead of "I don't know enough about them to have an opinion." At the end of the day, whose responsibility is it? Is it always ours to do our research before having an impression/opinion, or is it theirs to keep their mouths shut so there's only one imprssion/opinion to have?
I just feel bad for everyone involved, trolling people or not. It's just reflects bad on everyone when they're doing this. I really think that Phil is entitles to his own opinions but he really needs a filter at times.
The same goes for the rest of the internet, filter and become better people. People need to accept the way some people are, Phil might say stupid stuff at times but I never really felt that he was an asshole in any way. Just had a lot of passion like a lot of us do.
Talking about another person in a podcast like Beer did is just a type of slander. You can always choose to soften the blows a little bit and still get the message across. Usually there are reasons why people act the way they do and that needs to be understood on both sides.
I get very annoyed with these things. People treating people bad just makes me boil.
Talking about another person in a podcast like Beer did is just a type of slander. You can always choose to soften the blows a little bit and still get the message across. Usually there are reasons why people act the way they do and that needs to be understood on both sides.
Like Fish in the infamous modern Japanese games suck incident it was the completely wrong way to bring your message across, in the end no matter what you mean with the message you will hurt and infuriate people.
This is all so childish, if you have a beef with someone, you deal with it by phone or email, not through fucking twitter where everyone can witness the whole thing. Both sides are to blame.
+1
...and the whole incident reminds me why I really don't care about games "journalism".
That PA article really set me off a bit, rant incoming:
A lot of this is coming from people having personal social media account publicly accessible, mostly twitter. They share personal info and often every stupid little detail on there, as well as apparently read every single thing that comes back to them.
PA starts of with someone "sharing the death of a family member on social media". Sorry, but why would you do something like this? Why would someone feel the need to share something very personal and intimate with the whole world, for every scumbag and troll out there to read? What good can possibly come from that? Isn't it enough to grief with family and close friends? If you're any kind of public person, how naive to then be shocked when you get a less-than-kind response to this. You've collected hundreds, thousands of followers for your online presence; random people who you haven't even got the slightest clue about who they are, and then you share such personal emotional details with them. Really...?
Same with that Call of Duty guy posting the gun tweak, and all of the threat responses used as some sort of example. Why would he share this on his personal, public twitter account? Does he really feel the need to inform the world on his personal twitter about this? Why not let any kind of official, anonymous account do this? One where reading the responses doesn't really matter and nobody has to get personally offended.
"You can't give up on Twitter, because it's too good of a tool for interaction with your fans and players." I disagree, I never use Twitter and think emails suffice perfectly. And even if you feel like you HAVE TO use Twitter (doubtful for the above examples), don't do it on your personal account.
I just don't get this whole every-single-thing-out-in-the-public thing that happens on twitter. Sure it makes sense for companies and products to have a brand presence, but a personal twitter account to constantly pump out things? Are people so desparate for back-pats from anyone and everyone, for every single thing they do, that they feel the need to share it all? And then they complain that, *gasp*, people are not always nice to you when you're babbling and parading in public?
Like Fish in the infamous modern Japanese games suck incident it was the completely wrong way to bring your message across, in the end no matter what you mean with the message you will hurt and infuriate people.
For those that hadn't seen it, here's a video of said incident:
That PA article really set me off a bit, rant incoming:
A lot of this is coming from people having personal social media account publicly accessible, mostly twitter. They share personal info and often every stupid little detail on there, as well as apparently read every single thing that comes back to them.
PA starts of with someone "sharing the death of a family member on social media". Sorry, but why would you do something like this? Why would someone feel the need to share something very personal and intimate with the whole world, for every scumbag and troll out there to read? What good can possibly come from that? Isn't it enough to grief with family and close friends? If you're any kind of public person, how naive to then be shocked when you get a less-than-kind response to this. You've collected hundreds, thousands of followers for your online presence; random people who you haven't even got the slightest clue about who they are, and then you share such personal emotional details with them. Really...?
Same with that Call of Duty guy posting the gun tweak, and all of the threat responses used as some sort of example. Why would he share this on his personal, public twitter account? Does he really feel the need to inform the world on his personal twitter about this? Why not let any kind of official, anonymous account do this? One where reading the responses doesn't really matter and nobody has to get personally offended.
"You can't give up on Twitter, because it's too good of a tool for interaction with your fans and players." I disagree, I never use Twitter and think emails suffice perfectly. And even if you feel like you HAVE TO use Twitter (doubtful for the above examples), don't do it on your personal account.
I just don't get this whole every-single-thing-out-in-the-public thing that happens on twitter. Sure it makes sense for companies and products to have a brand presence, but a personal twitter account to constantly pump out things? Are people so desparate for back-pats from anyone and everyone, for every single thing they do, that they feel the need to share it all? And then they complain that, *gasp*, people are not always nice to you when you're babbling and parading in public?
I just don't get this whole every-single-thing-out-in-the-public thing that happens on twitter. Sure it makes sense for companies and products to have a brand presence, but a personal twitter account to constantly pump out things?
Adam Orth from Microsoft will probably agree after what happened
I haven't really liked any recent Japanese games but I wouldn't be so quick to say they all sucked (if I was him).
I do like how Phil presents himself though, he brushes on offensive which gets peoples attention. He does end up explaining what he meant at 3:42. But his type of attitude is what people feed off of, IF ONLY he had not argued directly with people on twitter.
I disagree with Xoliul on this. Yes there are things that should probably not be said or done in a public space on the basis that publicity should not be necessary but I don't think it's that black and white.
For a start there is, in my opinion, a tenuous link between sharing with friends and sharing with a community. For some people you share with just your best mates or close family, but for others they share with an entire network of friends and coworkers etc. Today's social media blurs the lines even more as we use it to communicate with both groups simultaneously.
Arguably people with more publicity, celebrity or simply a larger reach should exercise more tact and responsibility. But they're still human and I've noticed more and more these days that many of these high-profile people consider themselves well-connected with their communities and fanbases, their "friends" even if that's flat out wrong. So "sharing the death of a family member on social media" would seem OK for someone just talking to their "friends."
This goes doubly for career people, who consider their work a part of their identity, as it often is for those in the limelight. FEZ is FISH, it's not just a game to him but it's his game. He shouldn't take it personally but it's hard not to when criticising his work includes criticising him as a by product. Even if he posted under a pseudonym or as a company name, his studio is so small it would take nothing for his detractors to aim it directly at him. This is even harder when in actual public at a convention where it is actually poor form to hide your professional identity. This is clearly where Fish's poor choice of deportment earned him his reputation. In this case publicity for his game = publicity for himself.
Same with that Call of Duty guy posting the gun tweak, and all of the threat responses used as some sort of example. Why would he share this on his personal, public twitter account?
Probably because he likes his job and likes his engagement with the positive parts of the community, even on a personal level. Perhaps he wants to own a part of his work or contribution to the game. He's the Studio Design Director and so if posting this information is a part of his job then using the company Twitter account would do nothing to stem the tide of hurtful dialogue.
Wow... If there was ever any proof that some people need handlers, these idiots certainly showed it.
Still, a journalist shouldn't sink to that level. You don't mix immaturity and professionalism with more immaturity and unprofessionalism and expect quality to come out. If I was Beer's boss I'm not so sure I would keep him around. He needs to be able to handle and interact with all types of people (especially the ones that are difficult to deal with) in a professional way, even if you really want to call a spade a spade. It will just damage his chances of talking to people in the future. If you don't give Beer the info he wants, he's going to beat you up about it. Future devs might shy away from him.
On the flip side don't be a douchebag and people might not call you a "fucking hipster tosspot".
I think it's only fair to point out that he apologized multiple times including directly to Makoto Goto (guy who asked the question) who thanked him for his response and went on to promote the Fez steam sale on his twitter.
Maybe Goto was just being polite but it isn't like Fish just left that shit out there as a big fuck you to him and Japanese developers.
I haven't really liked any recent Japanese games but I wouldn't be so quick to say they all sucked (if I was him).
I do like how Phil presents himself though, he brushes on offensive which gets peoples attention. He does end up explaining what he meant at 3:42. But his type of attitude is what people feed off of, IF ONLY he had not argued directly with people on twitter.
I'd just like to point out that I seriously doubt Fish would have ever explained his position if Jonathan Blow hadn't stepped in to make a more constructive point.
Blow is highly opinionated, and a lot of people disagree with him on a lot of things, and that's ok..because he's ARTICULATE. If he vocalizes an opinion he has the logic behind that opinion ready for debate and discussion. Call him what you want, he KNOWS his mind before he SPEAKS it.
Fish...also opinionated, but less able to express himself.
Moral of the story: it's ok to be an opinionated ASS. It's ok to be an egotistical prick. in many cases in any creative industry, it's even a point in your favor, even if it just keeps people discussing your antics. BUT...if you're going to behave this way you had better be PREPARED to deal with the response you're going to get.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the abuse Fish gets isn't largeley brought on himself. it's not excused, and we're all disgusted by people behaving this way, but if you feed the trolls they'll keep coming back. There are lots of internet celebrities who don't have these problems, even while they receive a lot of the same abuse. For God's sake - how much hate mail do you think Gabe Newell gets? (probably less because he seldom shows up on the internet being an unthinking pompous dickhead)
For God's sake - how much hate mail do you think Gabe Newell gets? (probably less because he seldom shows up on the internet being an unthinking pompous dickhead)
Fish did NOT Make millions. Maaaaaybe made in the vicinity of a quarter million for a 6-year perma-crunch.
200,000 sales on XBLA with Microsoft taking most of it, publisher taking most of that cut, his former partner taking a sizable chunk, then the development costs, and the programmer he hired, along with marketing, sound, etc. He did NOT make $Millions. http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/04/15/fez-xbla-sales-hit-200000
For gods, sakes, he couldn't even afford a $40k patch.
He is walking away from a VERY emotionally, and psychologically abusive job that paid a very mediocre wage. It would not shock me to see him never come back.
I think this thread needs to be closed. Nothing at all productive coming from anyone's single response to this matter. I find this thread quite negative and reflects a bad side of Polycount's views from situations that not one of us has anything to do with. It's their business, not ours...
Discussing why a prominent figure in the indie game-dev community decides to quit games...seems like a pretty relevant topic of discussion...and most of us are in the business (or trying to get into the business) of games...so regardless of your opinion..the discussion is still valid
I think he may have said it a little too harshly, but I don't think hes really said anything a lot of people in this industry already think. This industry IS extremely negative. And no, it's not really the devs, but the vocal majority of gamers (including critics) are bloody negative. Check out any game forum. Its 90% negativity trashing games that the devs worked their butt off on. Could he have a deeper skin? Sure... But he was also attacked directly. It wasn't about his game. It wasn't an over all that company sucks. He was attacked directly. Of course he's going to defend himself. He might have done it a little bit wonky and unprofessional, but was the original attack professional? Absolutely not! Everyone talks about taking crits as base value and use it to grow and whatever. But the attacks on him and his partner were not crits. They weren't constructive in any way shape or form. It was a pure and simple attack on him as a person in a very public forum. I challenge anyone to not get a little bit angry and say something you regret if the same were done to you .
Both parties are in the wrong here. Both. Not just one.
And yes, he quit the industry. So? The stats say what? People tend to stay for 5 years then get out? He spent 6 making the game? Seems about average to me. He was just a little more vocal about it than others. Plus he made a game that lots of people absolutely adore, where as most people just vanish into the night and don't have their name cemented to a project that everyone knows (or at least everyone knows they worked on).
Replies
fez mom sextape pls
It's very sane, when you'd go to your workplace and vent all the time it would end up poisoning the environment and cost you your job, no matter how right you were.
The reason developers won't even go there is because the only ones they'll end up hurting is themselves, they'll focus on the boat-loads of positive fans.
It's a downward spiral, everyone knows this, Fish got caught up in it and thus every twitter'ing from his side would end up targeting everyone.
The 101 of PR is that everything you say and everything that goes on the internet will reach all your fans, customers and potential customers.
back when Fez was announced and glimpses of it were emerging I was really psyched about playing it, and as I heard more and more from Phil it really took the edge off my enthusiasm. I ended up getting it in the steam sale and I actually regret it. I don't believe in 'the death of the author', works are linked to their creator, and honestly my impressions of who made the game has soured my appreciation and ability to enjoy it.
This is pretty much my reaction from the first few posts the other day, but i had more important things to do like look at cat gifs. Hes done no one but himself out of a job so eh/
if i remember rightly from the indie game movie, he said he wanted to make his own game because he didn't like working with other people.
i realise he now has quite a considerable amount of money, but i also can't think of any other employer who will want him after all of this. he's basically left with: make games or retire. in either case, nobody likes him.
Indeed, I watched that doco with my reasonably conservative parents and we were not very impressed with him by the time he was exclaiming that he would "fucking kill him!" when talking about if his ex-business partner would show up to Fez's debut.
That's what I did with my spare cash, might as well go to someone who didn't have alot of the success but was humble by, then another person
Or we just let them filter themselves out of our industry on their own.
Seriously though, with the money this guy made, he'll be alright for the rest of his life. I feel no sympathy for a guy with millions of dollars.
Inb4 he uses the cancellation as a publicity stunt to get Fez more attention, and then releases Fez 2 anyway with an even bigger fan base.
I like Polycount because, unlike most of the internet, people here try to focus on the positive. I grew up here, and I have all of you to thank for my artistic maturity as well as my maturity in general. I've learned how to take criticism, how to look at my own work with a critical eye, and how to appreciate good art.
Not every developer is so lucky to have that kind of upbringing.
Justin: I think I'd fare pretty well. Might be a fun game to play to look at your old posts and see how you feel now about what you said then. It'd be a sobering experience for sure.
I agree, to some extent. I think it's obvious that he has some mental health issues, though. That, coupled with the "trollololol" mentality that is today's internet (more specifically gaming) culture, doesn't mix well at all.
To those that say he just needs to "learn" to suck it up, I'd say you need to understand that it may not be that simple. I think his posts and general nature are clear indicators that he needs help. At the very least, he's suffering from some serious depression, though I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually "on the spectrum".
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Phil Fish is called racists simply by saying he thinks modern Japanese games suck. I know what my rep is, I usually joke about it at interviews "yeah, I spend a good amount of time yelling at people on Polycount"
Beer shouldn't have called them "hipster assholes" and "tosspots" for not expanding on a rumor. Keep that kind of crap out of your journalism.
In journalism you need access to sources and you don't need to be best buddies with everyone. With an attitude like that its no wonder he can't get a comment. Good luck getting future comments from other developers...
With that said Fish should have the maturity to not melt down on twitter, woa...
Agreed. The guy wanted a comment, couldn't get it, and misinterpreted Fish's professionalism to not comment as douchey-ness. It's all really dumb and embarrassing that they both lost their cool.
if only they had the posting cat:
I do feel bad for him because the media always takes his comments out of context and then blows it back in his face. Like the racism thing haha which actually had nothing to do with racism, just saying their design mechanics are dated.
Beer needs to rename his show to 'annoying gamer.' I used to like him and he's still the best thing on gametrailers but by god is he negative haha. I think he's let the persona get the better of him in this case and now thinks he can insult and swear about everyone. God forbid someone does it to him haha.
Fish still thinks he is small time but he's a figure head now due to his success and needs to realise he's gotta be a bit more tactile. But if I was in his shoes I wouldn't want to comment about xbone indie support either as it could have serious repercussions. He's already got gametrailers fan boys sending him abuse haha.
(the answer on how to take abuse, by the way, is GRACEFULLY)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/swimming-in-a-sea-of-shit-the-internets-war-against-creatives
Last week I watched the documentary Heckler about comedians and their relationship with critics, hecklers, and the internet. Very interesting perspective on this topic. I know I personally would hate to be surrounded by seething hate and negativity all day.
Real classy also how they use the red-herring example of the COD patch and the death notes on that, when the two situations aren't anywhere near each other, let alone a basis of example in terms of issue, author, or people. One person has actual reason to be upset and do something about it, the other vortexed the issue himself.
The same way we hear about more murders and think the city we live in is about to become Detroit 2.0 with Robocop, we're simply getting more information everyday, instead of, oh say, I don't know, a letter about how your friend died and his funeral was a week ago, but the horse was too sick to bring it to you
Not to mention, the same happens with the movie industry, people sent death notes to one of the actress on the Sherlock series, because her character was going to marry one of the male character, and apparently, alot of people on Thumblr that like Fan-Fiction porn of the two leading male characters found that offensive
Also, the Penny Arcade article is wrong on several points, they're passively siding with Fish, here is a little bit of more depth information of what happened after the fiasco: http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/so-fez-ii/1100-4700/
Note a few parts, such as how Beer actually said lets make a part 2 of the video and talk it out, insults and all included, gloves off, free ring, Fish refused and proceeded to generate more issues on his behalf for no reason without ever going back to the original point.
Pretty sure if Fish stood his ground with Beer, in a video, he would have gotten his public apology, maybe followed by some actual beer (pun intended).
Discussion on Reddit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1jaew3/patrick_klepek_of_giantbomb_has_done_a_great/
Interesting comment by Oreo:
"Don't be such a bitch. So you got bad reviews? Eh, its a good time, sitting in a jacuzi. Let's call some girls" - Deep Roy
So when "person I haven't met 1" acts like an asshole to "person I haven't met 2" I of course think that "person I haven't met 1" is an asshole. Then "person I haven't met 2" responds and guess what now we have 2 assholes.
It's sad because it's all shallow and snap-judgements and if we did the research or if the information is accessible, we'd know that one was too harsh and the other a victim, or that one has social/mental issues etc etc.
So really like that video in the PA report, 9 times out of 10 when seeing some confusing squabble we think "that's some crazy people" instead of "I don't know enough about them to have an opinion." At the end of the day, whose responsibility is it? Is it always ours to do our research before having an impression/opinion, or is it theirs to keep their mouths shut so there's only one imprssion/opinion to have?
The same goes for the rest of the internet, filter and become better people. People need to accept the way some people are, Phil might say stupid stuff at times but I never really felt that he was an asshole in any way. Just had a lot of passion like a lot of us do.
Talking about another person in a podcast like Beer did is just a type of slander. You can always choose to soften the blows a little bit and still get the message across. Usually there are reasons why people act the way they do and that needs to be understood on both sides.
I get very annoyed with these things. People treating people bad just makes me boil.
Like Fish in the infamous modern Japanese games suck incident it was the completely wrong way to bring your message across, in the end no matter what you mean with the message you will hurt and infuriate people.
+1
...and the whole incident reminds me why I really don't care about games "journalism".
A lot of this is coming from people having personal social media account publicly accessible, mostly twitter. They share personal info and often every stupid little detail on there, as well as apparently read every single thing that comes back to them.
PA starts of with someone "sharing the death of a family member on social media". Sorry, but why would you do something like this? Why would someone feel the need to share something very personal and intimate with the whole world, for every scumbag and troll out there to read? What good can possibly come from that? Isn't it enough to grief with family and close friends? If you're any kind of public person, how naive to then be shocked when you get a less-than-kind response to this. You've collected hundreds, thousands of followers for your online presence; random people who you haven't even got the slightest clue about who they are, and then you share such personal emotional details with them. Really...?
Same with that Call of Duty guy posting the gun tweak, and all of the threat responses used as some sort of example. Why would he share this on his personal, public twitter account? Does he really feel the need to inform the world on his personal twitter about this? Why not let any kind of official, anonymous account do this? One where reading the responses doesn't really matter and nobody has to get personally offended.
"You can't give up on Twitter, because it's too good of a tool for interaction with your fans and players." I disagree, I never use Twitter and think emails suffice perfectly. And even if you feel like you HAVE TO use Twitter (doubtful for the above examples), don't do it on your personal account.
I just don't get this whole every-single-thing-out-in-the-public thing that happens on twitter. Sure it makes sense for companies and products to have a brand presence, but a personal twitter account to constantly pump out things? Are people so desparate for back-pats from anyone and everyone, for every single thing they do, that they feel the need to share it all? And then they complain that, *gasp*, people are not always nice to you when you're babbling and parading in public?
For those that hadn't seen it, here's a video of said incident:
[ame="
this. so much this.
Adam Orth from Microsoft will probably agree after what happened
I haven't really liked any recent Japanese games but I wouldn't be so quick to say they all sucked (if I was him).
I do like how Phil presents himself though, he brushes on offensive which gets peoples attention. He does end up explaining what he meant at 3:42. But his type of attitude is what people feed off of, IF ONLY he had not argued directly with people on twitter.
For a start there is, in my opinion, a tenuous link between sharing with friends and sharing with a community. For some people you share with just your best mates or close family, but for others they share with an entire network of friends and coworkers etc. Today's social media blurs the lines even more as we use it to communicate with both groups simultaneously.
Arguably people with more publicity, celebrity or simply a larger reach should exercise more tact and responsibility. But they're still human and I've noticed more and more these days that many of these high-profile people consider themselves well-connected with their communities and fanbases, their "friends" even if that's flat out wrong. So "sharing the death of a family member on social media" would seem OK for someone just talking to their "friends."
This goes doubly for career people, who consider their work a part of their identity, as it often is for those in the limelight. FEZ is FISH, it's not just a game to him but it's his game. He shouldn't take it personally but it's hard not to when criticising his work includes criticising him as a by product. Even if he posted under a pseudonym or as a company name, his studio is so small it would take nothing for his detractors to aim it directly at him. This is even harder when in actual public at a convention where it is actually poor form to hide your professional identity. This is clearly where Fish's poor choice of deportment earned him his reputation. In this case publicity for his game = publicity for himself.
Probably because he likes his job and likes his engagement with the positive parts of the community, even on a personal level. Perhaps he wants to own a part of his work or contribution to the game. He's the Studio Design Director and so if posting this information is a part of his job then using the company Twitter account would do nothing to stem the tide of hurtful dialogue.
Still, a journalist shouldn't sink to that level. You don't mix immaturity and professionalism with more immaturity and unprofessionalism and expect quality to come out. If I was Beer's boss I'm not so sure I would keep him around. He needs to be able to handle and interact with all types of people (especially the ones that are difficult to deal with) in a professional way, even if you really want to call a spade a spade. It will just damage his chances of talking to people in the future. If you don't give Beer the info he wants, he's going to beat you up about it. Future devs might shy away from him.
On the flip side don't be a douchebag and people might not call you a "fucking hipster tosspot".
Maybe Goto was just being polite but it isn't like Fish just left that shit out there as a big fuck you to him and Japanese developers.
I'd just like to point out that I seriously doubt Fish would have ever explained his position if Jonathan Blow hadn't stepped in to make a more constructive point.
Blow is highly opinionated, and a lot of people disagree with him on a lot of things, and that's ok..because he's ARTICULATE. If he vocalizes an opinion he has the logic behind that opinion ready for debate and discussion. Call him what you want, he KNOWS his mind before he SPEAKS it.
Fish...also opinionated, but less able to express himself.
Moral of the story: it's ok to be an opinionated ASS. It's ok to be an egotistical prick. in many cases in any creative industry, it's even a point in your favor, even if it just keeps people discussing your antics. BUT...if you're going to behave this way you had better be PREPARED to deal with the response you're going to get.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the abuse Fish gets isn't largeley brought on himself. it's not excused, and we're all disgusted by people behaving this way, but if you feed the trolls they'll keep coming back. There are lots of internet celebrities who don't have these problems, even while they receive a lot of the same abuse. For God's sake - how much hate mail do you think Gabe Newell gets? (probably less because he seldom shows up on the internet being an unthinking pompous dickhead)
None, because he is awesome.
200,000 sales on XBLA with Microsoft taking most of it, publisher taking most of that cut, his former partner taking a sizable chunk, then the development costs, and the programmer he hired, along with marketing, sound, etc. He did NOT make $Millions.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/04/15/fez-xbla-sales-hit-200000
For gods, sakes, he couldn't even afford a $40k patch.
105,000 Steam Sales (during the summer Steam Sale) for $1 (with Valve taking their substantial cut, and Trap Door taking their cut) is not $millions. Where do you guys get this number from?
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-07-15-fez-sells-105-000-in-steam-sale
He is walking away from a VERY emotionally, and psychologically abusive job that paid a very mediocre wage. It would not shock me to see him never come back.
Both parties are in the wrong here. Both. Not just one.
And yes, he quit the industry. So? The stats say what? People tend to stay for 5 years then get out? He spent 6 making the game? Seems about average to me. He was just a little more vocal about it than others. Plus he made a game that lots of people absolutely adore, where as most people just vanish into the night and don't have their name cemented to a project that everyone knows (or at least everyone knows they worked on).