Art Institute of Dallas Alumni
Program: Media Arts and Animation
Between the student housing and staying a few more quarters to make sure my portfolio was hireable.... I am 160k in debt. Was it worth that much? I don't think so.
HOLY CRAP. 160k. I'm so sorry, but I'm glad you've gotten off to a great start and had the motivation and drive to get yourself there.
AI San Diego 09 Grad. Got my first job at Bungie a 2 months after graduating. I did not get this job because of AI, but it helped me get to where I am today.
Positives:
Mentorship Program with SOE
Internship with SOE
I had 2 great teachers, one extremely technical, one extremely artistic
Friends, I cannot put a price on the life long friends I have made due to AI
2 of my friends now work with me at ND after I recommend them
Learned about Polycount
Deadlines helped me focus on getting projects actually done
Dabbling in all aspects of game creation from Animation to Scripting. Really helped me understand what every department dose better and how my job influences them
I was told my degree played a factor in getting my job at Bungie. My lead liked that I went to college for something I was passionate about and came out the other end
College experience. Not your typical college life experience but one I will remember and enjoy forever.
Being around, working and living with other creative people just as passionate about this shit as me.
Negatives:
Ridiculously expensive
90% of the people at school are garbage and just going because they like to play video games
Tech is always slightly behind when generation switches happen (took a while for the school to get up and running with normal maps/HP stuff)
You never learn what it means to be an Environment Artist, really just how to make props
Its just a base foundation for what you need
Lots of teachers haven't been in the industry for years and knowledge of how things work is really dated
Sallie Mae, fuck that bitch
Getting a degree doesn't mean you will ever get a job
Its never really said/shown that you will need to learn a lot outside of school to be good enough
No one there can help you get a job, there career advisers are a joke
Even with hindsight I wouldn't change a thing. It gave me the base foundation I needed, I met my best/life long friends there which is worth more than anything, and all the experiences I went through lead me to where I am today. I am where I am today because of the foundation I got from AI, the friends I had and my drive/desire to improve and get better.
Sidenote: 7 or more Environment/Texture Artists at Naughty Dog went to AI. Anyone who would turn you down/take it negatively against you that you went to AI or any other school is a fucking idiot. Where you learn your craft dose not matter, its how good you become at it.
Question: Are there any schools or programs out there you guys admire and think ARE worth the time and money? If you saw it on someone's resume would you think "whoa, I gotta check this out!" ?
Good question. Assuming that all I have is a standard boring bullet-point resume I think a fine arts degree in non games would definitely make me curious if i were looking for artists. But with hiring tech artists things get more complex. There someone with a combination, maybe a game/art degree and e.g. a traditional IT related degree/diploma would stand out education wise.
Here in China I only know a few unis, so for most of the time the subject is what catches my attention when people have a degree, not the uni's name. Unfortunately a lot of people already disqualify themselves because of other reason, like not having a folio ready(!!)
We're number! Woo! Ai grads can look forward to -$228,000 return on investment! A solid choice for any sane human being.
Woohoo! I always love/hate to read quotes like this or hear this out of a program director's mouth:
Pransky said 80 percent of available recent graduates of the Pittsburgh school's diploma programs were working in a field related to their program of study within six months of graduation, compared with 77% of associate's degree graduates and 74% of bachelor's graduates
AI San Diego 09 Grad. Got my first job at Bungie a 2 months after graduating. I did not get this job because of AI, but it helped me get to where I am today.
Positives:
Mentorship Program with SOE
Internship with SOE
I had 2 great teachers, one extremely technical, one extremely artistic
Friends, I cannot put a price on the life long friends I have made due to AI
2 of my friends now work with me at ND after I recommend them
Learned about Polycount
Deadlines helped me focus on getting projects actually done
Dabbling in all aspects of game creation from Animation to Scripting. Really helped me understand what every department dose better and how my job influences them
I was told my degree played a factor in getting my job at Bungie. My lead liked that I went to college for something I was passionate about and came out the other end
College experience. Not your typical college life experience but one I will remember and enjoy forever.
Being around, working and living with other creative people just as passionate about this shit as me.
Negatives:
Ridiculously expensive
90% of the people at school are garbage and just going because they like to play video games
Tech is always slightly behind when generation switches happen (took a while for the school to get up and running with normal maps/HP stuff)
You never learn what it means to be an Environment Artist, really just how to make props
Its just a base foundation for what you need
Lots of teachers haven't been in the industry for years and knowledge of how things work is really dated
Sallie Mae, fuck that bitch
Getting a degree doesn't mean you will ever get a job
Its never really said/shown that you will need to learn a lot outside of school to be good enough
No one there can help you get a job, there career advisers are a joke
Even with hindsight I wouldn't change a thing. It gave me the base foundation I needed, I met my best/life long friends there which is worth more than anything, and all the experiences I went through lead me to where I am today. I am where I am today because of the foundation I got from AI, the friends I had and my drive/desire to improve and get better.
Sidenote: 7 or more Environment/Texture Artists at Naughty Dog went to AI. Anyone who would turn you down/take it negatively against you that you went to AI or any other school is a fucking idiot. Where you learn your craft dose not matter, its how good you become at it.
Yeah, that's pretty much my experience in a nutshell, although my degree program wasn't on games as much as it was computer animation as a whole. The only difference was the career advisor (at least for us in the animation program) was VERY helpful if you were one of those students that showed initiative.
It's sad to see so many people had such negative experiences at AI.
I have read a whole number of threads about Ai and a lot of negative comments, and it is somewhat surprising to see each time.
I graduated from one in San Francisco, but my experience was mostly positive at the time and I have since worked with a few graduates (from before, after and the same time I was there) and they have always been fantastic folks to work with professionally.
I've also had the opportunity to work with people from other Ai schools as well, and a handful of grads from my school have gone on to work at Pixar and WETA as well so I really think it's the self-application of one's self that really matters. Not sure how the SF school is right now, I heard they went through layoffs and a lot of the teachers I learnt from no longer work there, or passed away unfortunately.
I am uncertain I would recommend it unless I went back to see how the classes / instructors were and what the tuition has climbed to, but if you're just interested in doing 3D and nothing else - there are better options IMO (as mentioned before, an atelier + online videos is a good combo).
One of my beefs with AIFL was it felt like the instructors wouldn't fail anyone unless they were just not showing up and no work was turned in. It felt like they had to pass everyone. After graduating I talked with an instructor that left there and he said they gave him hell every time he wanted to fail students.
hello op, This might be quite lengthy so bare with me. I am a student at the art institute of Sac one of the smallest Ai's in their massive chain with this i can only give my experience about that particular AI. I personally went into the school already understanding the industry thanks to some research of my own but i was naive about the ways of capitalism and the possibility that they could be deceiving the consumer; thus i did no research on which college was best and only worried about convenience of location. I went into the college Strong as hell, joining clubs and excelling thinking they were the most prestigious school known to man, I guess this is thanks to their clever advertising. The classes were never tough for me but i passed it off as beginner classes but as i went on i started to never see any challenge, i still got As but i started to wonder why their teaching was so slow and never quick like the industry is. And a year later i started to question many things as they did not seem to be setting me up for anything I wanted such as working for a triple A company, but rather a very small indie company. This is not only from their slow process, but they also taught way too general about their studies, ultimately never really getting into the grit of the classes. Now they did teach their students how to use Programs and pertained some criteria to the industry but most of the time their criteria was outdated and or inaccurate. I myself learned a lot of programs and some few and valuable concepts and tricks from the school all in all, but what i learned in gnomon tuts and digital tutors and the alike for 2 months equated to 2 years of what i learned in school. At this point its really hard to justify the money spent, most of the students i talk to at the school tell me they learned most of their skills outside the schools faculty, now i do appreciate the ability to have peers to test the skills I've learned outside the school but i would've made such an instance without AI, and knowing myself i would of. At this point all i can tell to those entering a game school is research, cheers to dustinbrowns linked video. The worst thing that could happen is not that you get accepted to a questionable school its that you try your hardest and find mid way that what they teach doesn't add up to the workforce, at this point you lose a considerable almost of motivation. I hope that doesn't happens to anyone, its not fun, trust me.
I think most AIs are not very good, and I don't think going is worth it for everyone. I can say I wouldn't try to graduate there though, too much money!
I went to AI in Orange County, and I had no idea about the school's reputation, or knew about any 3d at all. I wanted to be a 2d artist mainly. Maybe if I had known I'd have picked a different school, like LCAD. I had some really great teachers at AI though, most of which aren't there anymore. I don't regret going at all, but I dropped out after I took all the classes I felt like I'd get something from. I met a lot of awesome people through school, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably do the same thing~ Expect to do a ton of work on your own, but I think that's something you have to do anywhere.
Jesus, my BS was $45k, how can they justify raising the tuition to near Ivy League levels and still expect to compete.
Go get tutorials and check out polycount, you'll save yourself a ton. If you are itching for college, be smart about it and go to community college first, then a uni second. Do enough research before hand, learn from other's mistakes and save yourself a massive headache dude.
Troy Griffin: Walt Disney Animation Studios, Reel FX, DNA Productions
Sloan Hood: Bungie
Jason Owen: Bethesda Softworks, BioWare Austin, Reel FX, Digital Anvil, Edge of Reality
Danny Rodriguez: Digital Domain, id Software, Sony Computer Entertainment, Epic Games
Jim Rice: Electronic Arts, LucasArts
David Bunn: Electronic Arts, Edge of Reality
Thao Le: id Software, Electronic Arts, LucasArts
Jeremiah Bigley: id Software, Shadows in Darkness, Green Grass Studios
Chelsea (Edwards) Velazque: id Software
Phillip Bailey: id Software
Joey Struve: id Software
Justin Owens: id Software, Paradigm Entertainment, Reel FX
Noe Serrano: id Software
Matthew Burke: id Software, Ensemble Studios
Shale Williams: id Software
Bryan Cavett: id Software, Nerve Software, Terminal Reality
Scott Winsett: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Don Gagen: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Duncan McKissick: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Phil Wohr: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Chris Van Doren: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Natalie (Pomeroy) Wohr: Zynga, Gearbox Software
Thonny Namuonglo: Zynga, id Software, Ensemble Studios
Chea O'Neill: Zynga, Ensemble Studios, Terminal Reality
Jay Hosfelt: Epic Games
Pete Hayes: Epic Games
Kevin Lanning: Epic Games
Matthew Russell: Epic Games
Mark Skelton: Blizzard Entertainment
Yekaterina Bourykina: Blizzard Entertainment,
Paul Allen: Reel FX, Terminal Reality, DNA Productions
Jared Brower: Reel FX, Liquid Logixx
Connon Carey: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Rod Douglas: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Branndon Fricks: Reel FX
Tony Garza: Reel FX, Corgan Media Lab
Randy Hayes: Reel FX
Scott McCullough: Reel FX, DNA Productions, Nickelodeon
Joe Johnston: Reel FX, Element X Creative
Casey Kreft: Reel FX
Karissa Sloan: Reel FX
Nathan Smithson: Reel FX, Digital Anvil/Microsoft Games
Brandon Stoker: Reel FX, Lockheed Martin
Shane Wapskineh: Reel FX, DreamWorks Animation, DNA Productions
Aaron Thedford: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Andrea Garcia: Reel FX
Randall Smith: Reel FX, Corgan MediaLab
Paul Slusser: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Brad Crow: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Bryan Hehmann: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Chris Moffitt: Robot Entertainment, DNA Productions, Paradigm Entertainment
Duane Santos: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Charles Tinney: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Robert Walden: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Adam Schuman: Retro Studios
Danny Richardson: Retro Studios
Eli Luna: Terminal Reality
Barry Rooney: Terminal Reality, Janimation, Reel FX, DNA Productions
Jeff Cavitt: Cloud Imperium Games, Terminal Reality,
Elijah McNeal: Cloud Imperium Games
Nick Pappas: Nerve Software, Ritual Entertainment,
Aaron Hausmann: Nerve Software, Ritual Entertainment,
David Mitchell: Nerve Software, D7 Studios
Stephen Bahl: Gearbox Software (CFO)
Kyle King: Gearbox Software
Brent Hollon: Gearbox Software, Corgan Media Lab
James Gilligan: Gearbox Software, Paradigm Entertainment
Robert Santiago: Gearbox Software
Josh Rearick: Gearbox Software
Chad Briggs: Element X Creative (Owner)
Aaron Kilbreath: Element X Creative
Roger Young: Element X Creative
Eric Cain: Fossil
Steven Ptasinski: Fossil
Arjun Singh: Fossil
Nich Zuhoski: Corgan MediaLab
Terry Millspaw: Corgan Media Lab
Forest Meador: M2 Studio
Sean Langford: Green Grass Studios
Brian Jones: Vigil Games, Ensemble Studios, Ritual Entertainment
Lori Magnuson: Barking Lizards Technologies
Molly Patrick: Barking Lizards Technologies
Joshua Spinell: Hailstorm Games, Barking Lizards,
Lucia Miron: Motus Digital, Barking Lizards Technologies
Hector Marquez: Robomodo, Barking Lizards Technologies, Ritual Entertainment
Kelly O'Donnell: Buzz Monkey Software, Barking Lizards Technologies
Bryan Pritchard: Dogbot Studios, Barking Lizards, Ion Storm, Origin Systems, 7th Level
Kevin O'Flaherty: Nerd Kingdom, Barking Lizards, Corgan Associates
Herb Ellwood: Vigil Games, Ensemble Studios, Sony Online Entertainment
Tony Arechiga: Vigil Games, Edge of Reality, Disney Interactive Studios
Justin Albers: Riot Games, Vigil Games, NCSoft, TKO Software
A partial list of Art Institute of Dallas Graduates
Pulled from my LinkedIn Contacts list. I am sure I have missed many people. Newest jobs listed first.
Read into it what you will.
I don't need to read anything into it. Those people busted ass and succeeded despite an assumedly poor education. Unless AID is just that much different than the average Ai experience.
I think it's somewhat misleading for people that don't know any better to see a list presented like that. It's similar to the marketing that these schools do to new students. "This graduate works for pixar, you can too!" Yes, you can get an industry job, but you are essentially paying a boatload of cash to learn mostly on your own in many cases. Don't get me wrong, self education is an important skill to have, but people shouldn't need to pay an exorbitant amount to learn it.
Sorry for not being more clear in my post. The post was an answer to Jon Jones post in which he made the inference that The Art Institute of Dallas does not produce quality graduates. In that respect I don't see how it is misleading.
I don't know what the average AI experience is. I am only aware of what goes on in the MAA department at AID. We are the originators of the Computer Animation program. Therefore we usually are pushing the envelope of quality. We are also Regionally accredited by SACS which means our Bachelor Degree can transfer to other colleges and universities.
I am not sure what I have done to you that you are so hostile to me. I am merely trying to point out that there are very talented people that come out of the MAA program at AID.
As far as costs, I have a son in college in the North East. His tuition is $57,000 a year. So his Bachelor Degree education will cost in excess of $228,000. He is not an artist but is studying to be an Actuary. I only list it here as a gauge to what costs are for other colleges in other disciplines.
Sorry if my posting has offended you in some way. It was not my intention.
Your post wasn't offensive to me, apologies if I come off as hostile. It's certainly not directed towards you personally, but more towards the school(s). To your point about the school producing quality graduates, I personally feel a lot of those people would have succeeded regardless and attributing it to the school doesn't paint a clear picture.
Unfortunately, Ai schools do get lumped into a group together. I have no experience with your school directly, but I have spoken to enough grads from different Ai(friends, coworkers) to get a pretty good picture overall. That you guys are regionally accredited is great, that the majority of Ai schools are not is terrible.
Education cost is ridiculous across the board, no doubt about it. Still doesn't make the cost of Ai justified.
Also for clarification, these views are mine and mine alone. I do not represent The Art Institute of Dallas, The Art Institutes International, EDMC or Goldman Sachs.
My posting was not meant as an advertisement for The Art Institute of Dallas. You could say I am a proud papa, or a Silverback Mountain Gorilla as I am referred to, so when someone posts on a forum that these people are crap I take offense.
I am posting on this forum as a father who has a son in college, as an interested artist in the discussion. I have had the opportunity through my 32 years teaching and my association with The Art Institute of Dallas to be exposed to some of the top talent to enter into the animation industry.
I totally agree with you that all of these people I listed worked their ass off to get to where they are. I was not trying to attribute their success to The Art Institute of Dallas. Work ethic is more important than artistic ability and these people had both. I take no credit in their success. Their success is theirs alone. I am proud to have crossed paths with them and to have shared a moment in time. I too believe that they would have succeeded in some way at something regardless of where they went to school. But having said that, The Art Institute of Dallas, the Animation Department and the faculty did make a positive impact in most of their lives. Of that I have no doubt.
I went to Ai Tampa (AKA Miami International University of Art & Design) and had a pretty good experience there. Some of the instructors were mediocre but those were mainly general education. The degree-related instructors tended to be versed well in their field, at least in the Game Art & Design study path. Many of my student colleagues went on to work for good companies, including one who works here in Orlando in my industry.
I'm fortunate that I had a stepfather whose Air Force service entitled me to $40,000 in VA payments for my college years. I'm left with ~$50,000 in Federal debt after having paid off my private loans, but I have a good career and I can provide for my wife and children and pay down my mortgage. I can't really complain too much.
Polygrinder. Ok. Now list all those who didn't and give the ratio. You also dont list what their job title is. They could be in the IT or QA departments for all we know.
The post was an answer to Jon Jones post in which he made the inference that The Art Institute of Dallas does not produce quality graduates. In that respect I don't see how it is misleading.
Not a bad list. I know ~10 of the people on it and have worked directly with a few of them, all of whom were badasses. However, I've never heard a single one of them talk about the AI or admit they ever went there, even in discussions about schools and the Art Institute. That's not much of a data point, but I was surprised to see some of the names.
When I say they typically don't produce quality grads, I'm speaking of the thousands of portfolios I've seen from AI students and grads across the country over the last several years, including recently. Off the top of my head, I've seen less than 5 that would warrant a second look, even for entry-level work. It doesn't mean that high quality grads aren't out there, but I see more portfolios and review more artists than most people, and in my direct experience, finding a hireable AI grad is like finding a needle in a haystack. It's really depressing, and I feel bad for them. I know of a school that actually "fixes" AI students...
Dustin, definitely a legitimate concern. I've had people ask me if they should do that, in fact. My suggestion is to keep it, but just put it at the bottom of your resume, with more important stuff first.
Graduated in 06 from AiCSD with 12 others (GAD was new back then), several of whom I keep a close eye on.
Almost all of them are working in the tech industry in some fashion, for what it's worth.
On the subject of quality, I will say what I tell everyone who comes to me asking for advice regarding college choices (and there have been quite a few people).
In high school, you are led around, told what to read, do, and think. If you did well in high school it only proves you can follow instructions. College, on the other hand, asks you to produce something from almost nothing. Some people succeed in this arena, others do not.
My experience in AiCSD has proven this fact to me. I look back on my time there and really feel like I could have done more to truly take advantage of the experience. When I did fully apply myself, I found that teachers would often single me out as an exceptional level designer and texture artist... but I could have explored everything with that kind of passion just to truly see it all first hand...
Did my education get me where I am today? Yes and No. Yes because my company literally pays me a larger yearly salary just for holding a Bachelor's degree. Yes because part of why I was hired was for my graphic design capabilities. No because the cold call I received that led to this job was based more on non-art-related work experience on my resume.
Do I regret going to AiCSD? NO. Not only did I enjoy the experience immensely, I went back and participated in their PAC committee to ensure that their new VGP degree met the standards needed for the industry.
But like I said above... college is what you make of it, not what it makes of you. If you go to Yale but don't apply yourself, you might graduate but you're not going to get much out of the experience.
Not sure, I went to one but things have been no good as of late. Things weren't good in 2010 because I didn't search for things until I had website and demo; the school really didn't help much with placement, although they promised to do so.
Most of the pieces had back then was just due to the fact that I drew every day regardless of assignments, to be 100% percent honest the program I was in only valued animation fellows; however ever most of them didn't use animation in the end at all because the teachers said they shouldn't
Fellow in program in 2007-2010 didn't use much else aside from 3Dsmax, zbrush was just becoming a thing, so no one knew much of zbrush during that era, and many folks were unprepared upon graduation.
To be 100% percent honest I don't trust most teachers, anywhere.
Things were alright from 2011-2012 though. I had a full time job and many commissions.
Also I think going to a school in a major city is better than just attending one in a rinky-dink city; there are just more opportunities there.
I don't want to get any heat, or seem like a no good fellow, but I'll say this; from what I have seen the folks who attend other schools with the same or lesser quality seem to find things fast due to the fact they attended a school in major city.
I would attend somewhere major in a large city if I were you though.
I went to Art Institute of Atlanta and graduated in 2009. I interned at Hirez in March of 2010, and moved on to a pay position in August, and I've been with the company ever since.
I'm not going to lie and say the school wasn't partially responsible for the opportunity I have here, since Hi-Rez used to bring in people to playtest from the college, and the AD here remembered me.
But I'm also not going to say AIA helped me in developing the skills that actually landed me the job.
There were some good, positive teachers trying to make the best of a bad situation, but for every good teacher swamped with work trying to help their students, there were more just collecting pay checks, passing off others work as their own, and passing people through the program that had no business being pushed forward.
AIA gave me a place that I could sit in relative peace and focus on working. But having a quiet place to sit is not worth 65k.
Avoid the school. I'd almost say avoid any school advertising game art as their draw, and find a fine art's program or classes instead. Or study on your own. Because you'll need the same drive it takes to succeed on your own that you will if you go to a college. And it'll cost a helluva a lot less.
Just go to a uni where you can study Art(character drawing and classical animation) and 3d at the same time. Maybe do a double major and dont go for the more expensive one except if you're willing to go to the "art center" in california or maybee gnomon. http://www.artcenter.edu/accd/index.jsp or http://www.gnomonschool.com/
yup, that's what the Ai FL was when I went. I regret not keeping up on my 2d animation skills.
Those were some of the best classes there. I remember the long nights working on keyframes and inbetweens I don't really remember the names of most teachers - There was Mr Om, the Indian life drawing teacher and Mr Carnegie, won't forget him. Always working with super sculpey or sharing his life long experience about art and how to deal with clients. Good times...
About taking it off the resume. I graduated over 10 years ago. If that's all it takes to eliminate candidates....well, good luck with a HR department like that, you'll need it!
I've just recently started my first year at The Art Institute of Austin. After reading over so many of these comments, I am so worried about my choice of schools. With that being said, I have raw talent, I am driven, and I now have a full list of great resources to teach myself things that I may not learn at AI-Aus, thanks to you fine people. I've already spent a great deal of time learning things from Digital Tutors, but I am happy to have stumbled across Polycount today and will definitely be looking at the stuff on Gnomon as well.
So, at the very least, thank you for the excellent resources. I realize that getting a job in the Game industry is going to be more on me than the school. Hard work, networking, and essentially proving myself..
Aside from that, is there anything else that any of you would recommend? I want to succeed. This isn't something spur of the moment. I didn't just wake up one day and think "Hey! I think I'll go to art school today!" I've wanted to do this for a very long time, I'm just doing things a bit backwards.
Aside from that, is there anything else that any of you would recommend? I want to succeed. This isn't something spur of the moment. I didn't just wake up one day and think "Hey! I think I'll go to art school today!" I've wanted to do this for a very long time, I'm just doing things a bit backwards.
It's been a while, but from AI FL I remember the following:
* get to know your teachers - there can be vast quality differences, and when you can sign up for courses pick the ones with teachers where you know they're good. Also listen to more senior students what they have to say.
* AI FL didn't really focus on specialization. But in general (unless you want to go indie or tech artist) it's a good thing to specialize in our industry. AI showed me all the disciplines but they forget to tell me to specialize
* The portfolio prep classes started very late. Even though many teachers stressed that you should create folio pieces there was never really much intro on how to make a targeted folio for a certain position. That happened too late. So start thinking early about where you want to go and how your folio can support you in getting there.
* If there's a choice between classes that teach you stuff you can do on your own, and stuff that you cannot (e.g. working in a real studio with light and green-screen, or life drawing, etc), then pick the classes you cannot do on your own.
* AI was a great place to experience all stages of 3D and 2D production - I loved seeing this overview of all the possible jobs. Make use of this, but don't forget to specialize despite that. For example I did 2D animation with animation paper - that was really interesting and we had a good teacher coming from the field. All those extra classes really expanded my horizon.
* whatever the career counselor says is true, as long as you append "if you have a great folio" to every sentence
* AI FL had no folio requirements (good for me, I never had formal art education before), but this means a lot of uninspired, unmotivated and untalented people will be there. Don't let them bring you down! In high-school they may have been the rebels, the cool kids. Here they're just losers wasting their money. Remember it's about you, not them. Find like-minded people who care about art, hang out with them, even if they're the nerdy or geeky type.
In America do you have regulator that is autonomous to Universities and gives accreditation to the Universities that get the lecturer staff to work really hard on meeting goals set by the Games industry, thus helping students make a more informed choice?
It's been a while, but from AI FL I remember the following:
* get to know your teachers - there can be vast quality differences, and when you can sign up for courses pick the ones with teachers where you know they're good. Also listen to more senior students what they have to say.
* AI FL didn't really focus on specialization. But in general (unless you want to go indie or tech artist) it's a good thing to specialize in our industry. AI showed me all the disciplines but they forget to tell me to specialize
* The portfolio prep classes started very late. Even though many teachers stressed that you should create folio pieces there was never really much intro on how to make a targeted folio for a certain position. That happened too late. So start thinking early about where you want to go and how your folio can support you in getting there.
* If there's a choice between classes that teach you stuff you can do on your own, and stuff that you cannot (e.g. working in a real studio with light and green-screen, or life drawing, etc), then pick the classes you cannot do on your own.
* AI was a great place to experience all stages of 3D and 2D production - I loved seeing this overview of all the possible jobs. Make use of this, but don't forget to specialize despite that. For example I did 2D animation with animation paper - that was really interesting and we had a good teacher coming from the field. All those extra classes really expanded my horizon.
* whatever the career counselor says is true, as long as you append "if you have a great folio" to every sentence
* AI FL had no folio requirements (good for me, I never had formal art education before), but this means a lot of uninspired, unmotivated and untalented people will be there. Don't let them bring you down! In high-school they may have been the rebels, the cool kids. Here they're just losers wasting their money. Remember it's about you, not them. Find like-minded people who care about art, hang out with them, even if they're the nerdy or geeky type.
Thank you for all of the great advice regarding AI. The teachers all stress creating folio pieces but, as you said, they don't really tell you what type of folio pieces are needed for specific career paths. That's something that I'm certainly going to work on in my own time. I still have two full years left of school, so there's plenty of time to create an outstanding portfolio.
The reason that your final sentence is in bold is because I am the nerdy/geeky type. Thankfully, the few friends that I have are as well. Unfortunately, that can make things a bit difficult when it comes to making new friends. Most of my classes are filled with audio and/or fashion students who look at me as though a tentacle has somehow sprouted through my forehead when I speak to them. Go me! I sprout tentacles from my forehead!
If I had it to do all over again, I think I would find a community or state college that had a great fine arts program, I would supplement in some business and personal finance courses in case I decided to go freelance, and I would learn the software on my own. But hindsight's 20/20.
This is the best advice in the thread and exactly what I have been telling anyone who asks me for school advice related to game art.
In my opinion, some of the most important and difficult things to learn for doing game art are the more fine art types of skills. The technical aspects can be learned in a comparatively short period of time. I went to art school for a BFA originally, and then years later went to the Art Institute for a year to learn the technical skills needed to be a 3d modeler. I believe that if I didn't have the fine arts training and I had only the AI education it would have been a much more uphill battle to get into the industry. On the other hand it was helpful for me to go to classes at AI rather than trying to learn on my own. It was a good motivation to have actual assignments and I had teachers to ask stupid questions when I needed them. However, I would say that I ended up surpassing a lot of them in knowledge by watching Digital Tutors (included in tuition) and visiting Polycount.
In my opinion, some of the most important and difficult things to learn for doing game art are the more fine art types of skills. The technical aspects can be learned in a comparatively short period of time. I went to art school for a BFA originally, and then years later went to the Art Institute for a year to learn the technical skills needed to be a 3d modeler. I believe that if I didn't have the fine arts training and I had only the AI education it would have been a much more uphill battle to get into the industry. On the other hand it was helpful for me to go to classes at AI rather than trying to learn on my own. It was a good motivation to have actual assignments and I had teachers to ask stupid questions when I needed them. However, I would say that I ended up surpassing a lot of them in knowledge by watching Digital Tutors (included in tuition) and visiting Polycount.
This exactly + Dustinbrown. I personally dropped out of Ai after a little over a year and a half in and it was the best decision I made in my education stint for sure. I dropped out, worked on portfolio for 8-9months nearly full time while doing various freelance for other 3D applicated products (safety training and some small indie projects at the time) to make some money and get a little bit of artist working experience. The classes are nice when starting out and even the later modeling and more advanced classes can be awesome if you have the staff. When I was at Ai-Orange County/CA, we had a couple Blizzard staff (Darkrusader was one of them), and he really helped me go from complete noob to having a solid grasp of where I was headed. They gave us real working advice that I still dearly hold to in my game industry career that I have now. They taught us the simple tips and tricks industry vets used such as simple optimization and time efficiency tricks, as well as overall working tips and what to really focus on with our portfolios and out of school studies. That was important, a lot of teachers want you to do their pointless homework that will never benefit you. These specific teachers would sit down and look you in the eyes and say that the work you were currently doing was just not up to par with an entry level spot. At first I felt they were being too harsh, that my work was alright enough to land me smaller jobs, etc... But it really takes brutal honesty to make it in this cut throat industry.
Also, if I had to do it over, I would absolutely go back for programming and if you really want to do art... Go back for fine art. I would then look to polycount and other resources for these technical art skills like modeling, rigging, texturing, etc. Its absolutely the way to go, most of the better artists I work with on a daily basis are self taught. It comes down to personal will and dedication. How bad do you want it? Thats the question.
Also, if I had to do it over, I would absolutely go back for programming and if you really want to do art... Go back for fine art.
Finishing that degree definitely helped me to do just that. I worked as an artist for a while but I realized that I enjoy programming more, and that my chances career advancement were just better (I was an ok artist, but not stellar), and I'm now enrolled in a software engineering masters program, which has been really helpful with my job, so far. So I'm really happy I got that degree, even if it's from AI. Also it allowed me to see the world - I don't think you can work anywhere overseas without at least a bachelor degree or extensive experience.
I'm not sure I mentioned this in here, is it worth it? No private college is worth it at the current tuition levels. In plenty of states in the US the current cost of 2 years community college + 2 years of State University costs the same or less than one year at an Art Institute or other private college.
I found I learned more traditional business and social skills through Art School that helped me greatly win out over people who just had strong portfolios. I notice allot of people who skipped out of these class options were also the ones who thought they could just wing it in the field with no schooling and dropped out. I really can only take them as being lazy.
In my own journey it has taken me a long time to realize that fundamentals are the most important thing, period. I never heard it much while I was at Full Sail (Except from the people teaching the fundamentals class at the start of the program.)
I kept hearing "you need to be spending 12 to 16 hours a day on art! But I never heard solid guidance on what I needed to fill those hours with. The result was that I kept spinning my wheels drawing or modeling worse versions of what was already out in the industry.
You're almost better off studying Industrial Design and architecture... then switch to entertainment from there. You'll be an absolute beast in no time.
If you're an artist first you can always learn the tools later. After learning fundamentals everything else seems easy by comparison. :P (note... it's ALL still really hard :P )
Colleges are just there for them to give you the paper that says you have a degree. It's your responsibility to improve as an artist, so my advice is don't just depend on the school on everything that you will learn, you have to be resourceful. There are tons of tutorials online.
Check these out:
digitaltutors.com
3dmotive.com
victory3d.com
thegnomonworkshop.com
kiwijuice.net
eat3d.com
I started going to the Art Institute in 2012 with the intention of becoming an Environment Artist. I only stayed there for a year and a half and I'm 50,000 in debt. That's with scholarships. I didn't make any connections there, and after watching a few tutorials, found myself knowing more than my professors did. I began to notice that a lot of the people I had classes with had no business being there. I'm not made of money, but I know where I stand financially. The school would target students and parents and tell them everything they wanted to hear and then they'd go a few quarters and it would be a great time, and then all of a sudden you start realizing that it's a load of shit. The Ai I attended was out of state for me, so I never did an orientation or anything, I ended up choosing to go of my own accord so I never spoke with any advisers or anyone prior to starting. I did end up working at the student store though for an extra bit of cash and I'd see all of these people that were so excited to be around creative people and within months I'd pass them in the hallway and they were just as miserable as the rest of us. Being a student and employee there also helped me kind of get insider information too and that was when I had my "aha" moment that I needed to run far, and fast. I made some interesting friends there, and sure, I had SOME good experiences and learned a few basic skills, but everything I learned was from Polycount and Digital Tutors, not from the professors I was paying to teach me. I was burnt out on not getting critiques because they'll tell anyone that's paying them that they're doing a good job. My work isn't anything to brag about but the 2 hours I put into my assignment vs the 15 minutes someone else put into theirs looked really good by comparison so I was never getting any good critiques on how to better myself it was always "again, great job!" It's hard to swallow paying so much money for so little. It wasn't worth my 50,000 dollars or the time I'll never get back. I transferred to the community college near where I moved to. It's 200 dollars a class, the curriculum is better, I've made more industry connections than I can count in 1 quarter, and my professors actually know what the hell they're talking about. Save yourself the trouble. I don't regret many things, I usually take them as an experience and move on but the Art Institute is a nightmare and I'll regret it for the rest of my life. Thankfully I found a school and I've gotten on much better there than I would have, but if I wasn't already so far in debt and so close to finishing, I would have ended my college career right then and there and made my own way into games. The internet is a beautiful thing. There isn't anything they'll teach you that you can't find yourself online if you put forth some effort and know what you're searching for.
The government is starting to put public school classrooms online. That's where all education is going soon enough. It's pretty silly to think that sitting in a classroom gains you more access to information than sitting at a computer with internet access.
Replies
HOLY CRAP. 160k. I'm so sorry, but I'm glad you've gotten off to a great start and had the motivation and drive to get yourself there.
Positives:
Negatives:
Even with hindsight I wouldn't change a thing. It gave me the base foundation I needed, I met my best/life long friends there which is worth more than anything, and all the experiences I went through lead me to where I am today. I am where I am today because of the foundation I got from AI, the friends I had and my drive/desire to improve and get better.
Sidenote: 7 or more Environment/Texture Artists at Naughty Dog went to AI. Anyone who would turn you down/take it negatively against you that you went to AI or any other school is a fucking idiot. Where you learn your craft dose not matter, its how good you become at it.
Good question. Assuming that all I have is a standard boring bullet-point resume I think a fine arts degree in non games would definitely make me curious if i were looking for artists. But with hiring tech artists things get more complex. There someone with a combination, maybe a game/art degree and e.g. a traditional IT related degree/diploma would stand out education wise.
Here in China I only know a few unis, so for most of the time the subject is what catches my attention when people have a degree, not the uni's name. Unfortunately a lot of people already disqualify themselves because of other reason, like not having a folio ready(!!)
Woohoo! I always love/hate to read quotes like this or hear this out of a program director's mouth:
Utter bullshit.
This is what goes on in my head every time I think about AI.
Yeah, that's pretty much my experience in a nutshell, although my degree program wasn't on games as much as it was computer animation as a whole. The only difference was the career advisor (at least for us in the animation program) was VERY helpful if you were one of those students that showed initiative.
It's sad to see so many people had such negative experiences at AI.
I graduated from one in San Francisco, but my experience was mostly positive at the time and I have since worked with a few graduates (from before, after and the same time I was there) and they have always been fantastic folks to work with professionally.
I've also had the opportunity to work with people from other Ai schools as well, and a handful of grads from my school have gone on to work at Pixar and WETA as well so I really think it's the self-application of one's self that really matters. Not sure how the SF school is right now, I heard they went through layoffs and a lot of the teachers I learnt from no longer work there, or passed away unfortunately.
I am uncertain I would recommend it unless I went back to see how the classes / instructors were and what the tuition has climbed to, but if you're just interested in doing 3D and nothing else - there are better options IMO (as mentioned before, an atelier + online videos is a good combo).
I went to AI in Orange County, and I had no idea about the school's reputation, or knew about any 3d at all. I wanted to be a 2d artist mainly. Maybe if I had known I'd have picked a different school, like LCAD. I had some really great teachers at AI though, most of which aren't there anymore. I don't regret going at all, but I dropped out after I took all the classes I felt like I'd get something from. I met a lot of awesome people through school, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably do the same thing~ Expect to do a ton of work on your own, but I think that's something you have to do anywhere.
Go get tutorials and check out polycount, you'll save yourself a ton. If you are itching for college, be smart about it and go to community college first, then a uni second.
Do enough research before hand, learn from other's mistakes and save yourself a massive headache dude.
Pulled from my LinkedIn Contacts list. I am sure I have missed many people. Newest jobs listed first.
Read into it what you will.
Adel Abada: Sony Pictures Imageworks, Pixar, Weta Digital, Framestore CFC
Bret St.Clair: Sony Pictures Imageworks, Centropolis
Jason Johnston: Pixar
Chris Fowler: Pixar
Brandon Riza: Blur Studio
Ben Lippert: DreamWorks Animation
Josh Smeltzer: Blue Sky Studios
Chris Marino: Cartoon Network
Chris Olivia: Troublemaker Studios (Robert Rodrigez)
Rodney Brunet: Troublemaker Studios (Robert Rodrigez)
Troy Griffin: Walt Disney Animation Studios, Reel FX, DNA Productions
Sloan Hood: Bungie
Jason Owen: Bethesda Softworks, BioWare Austin, Reel FX, Digital Anvil, Edge of Reality
Danny Rodriguez: Digital Domain, id Software, Sony Computer Entertainment, Epic Games
Jim Rice: Electronic Arts, LucasArts
David Bunn: Electronic Arts, Edge of Reality
Thao Le: id Software, Electronic Arts, LucasArts
Jeremiah Bigley: id Software, Shadows in Darkness, Green Grass Studios
Chelsea (Edwards) Velazque: id Software
Phillip Bailey: id Software
Joey Struve: id Software
Justin Owens: id Software, Paradigm Entertainment, Reel FX
Noe Serrano: id Software
Matthew Burke: id Software, Ensemble Studios
Shale Williams: id Software
Bryan Cavett: id Software, Nerve Software, Terminal Reality
Scott Winsett: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Don Gagen: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Duncan McKissick: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Phil Wohr: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Chris Van Doren: Zynga, Bonfire, Ensemble Studios
Natalie (Pomeroy) Wohr: Zynga, Gearbox Software
Thonny Namuonglo: Zynga, id Software, Ensemble Studios
Chea O'Neill: Zynga, Ensemble Studios, Terminal Reality
Jay Hosfelt: Epic Games
Pete Hayes: Epic Games
Kevin Lanning: Epic Games
Matthew Russell: Epic Games
Mark Skelton: Blizzard Entertainment
Yekaterina Bourykina: Blizzard Entertainment,
Paul Allen: Reel FX, Terminal Reality, DNA Productions
Jared Brower: Reel FX, Liquid Logixx
Connon Carey: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Rod Douglas: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Branndon Fricks: Reel FX
Tony Garza: Reel FX, Corgan Media Lab
Randy Hayes: Reel FX
Scott McCullough: Reel FX, DNA Productions, Nickelodeon
Joe Johnston: Reel FX, Element X Creative
Casey Kreft: Reel FX
Karissa Sloan: Reel FX
Nathan Smithson: Reel FX, Digital Anvil/Microsoft Games
Brandon Stoker: Reel FX, Lockheed Martin
Shane Wapskineh: Reel FX, DreamWorks Animation, DNA Productions
Aaron Thedford: Reel FX, DNA Productions
Andrea Garcia: Reel FX
Randall Smith: Reel FX, Corgan MediaLab
Paul Slusser: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Brad Crow: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Bryan Hehmann: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Chris Moffitt: Robot Entertainment, DNA Productions, Paradigm Entertainment
Duane Santos: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Charles Tinney: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Robert Walden: Robot Entertainment, Ensemble Studios
Adam Schuman: Retro Studios
Danny Richardson: Retro Studios
Eli Luna: Terminal Reality
Barry Rooney: Terminal Reality, Janimation, Reel FX, DNA Productions
Jeff Cavitt: Cloud Imperium Games, Terminal Reality,
Elijah McNeal: Cloud Imperium Games
Nick Pappas: Nerve Software, Ritual Entertainment,
Aaron Hausmann: Nerve Software, Ritual Entertainment,
David Mitchell: Nerve Software, D7 Studios
Stephen Bahl: Gearbox Software (CFO)
Kyle King: Gearbox Software
Brent Hollon: Gearbox Software, Corgan Media Lab
James Gilligan: Gearbox Software, Paradigm Entertainment
Robert Santiago: Gearbox Software
Josh Rearick: Gearbox Software
Chad Briggs: Element X Creative (Owner)
Aaron Kilbreath: Element X Creative
Roger Young: Element X Creative
Eric Cain: Fossil
Steven Ptasinski: Fossil
Arjun Singh: Fossil
Nich Zuhoski: Corgan MediaLab
Terry Millspaw: Corgan Media Lab
Forest Meador: M2 Studio
Sean Langford: Green Grass Studios
Brian Jones: Vigil Games, Ensemble Studios, Ritual Entertainment
Lori Magnuson: Barking Lizards Technologies
Molly Patrick: Barking Lizards Technologies
Joshua Spinell: Hailstorm Games, Barking Lizards,
Lucia Miron: Motus Digital, Barking Lizards Technologies
Hector Marquez: Robomodo, Barking Lizards Technologies, Ritual Entertainment
Kelly O'Donnell: Buzz Monkey Software, Barking Lizards Technologies
Bryan Pritchard: Dogbot Studios, Barking Lizards, Ion Storm, Origin Systems, 7th Level
Kevin O'Flaherty: Nerd Kingdom, Barking Lizards, Corgan Associates
Herb Ellwood: Vigil Games, Ensemble Studios, Sony Online Entertainment
Tony Arechiga: Vigil Games, Edge of Reality, Disney Interactive Studios
Justin Albers: Riot Games, Vigil Games, NCSoft, TKO Software
Josh Hurst: Liquid Logixx
Derrick Hammond: 343 Industries|Microsoft, Raven Software
Adam Markley: Junction Point Studios, Edge of Reality
.
I don't need to read anything into it. Those people busted ass and succeeded despite an assumedly poor education. Unless AID is just that much different than the average Ai experience.
I think it's somewhat misleading for people that don't know any better to see a list presented like that. It's similar to the marketing that these schools do to new students. "This graduate works for pixar, you can too!" Yes, you can get an industry job, but you are essentially paying a boatload of cash to learn mostly on your own in many cases. Don't get me wrong, self education is an important skill to have, but people shouldn't need to pay an exorbitant amount to learn it.
Sorry for not being more clear in my post. The post was an answer to Jon Jones post in which he made the inference that The Art Institute of Dallas does not produce quality graduates. In that respect I don't see how it is misleading.
I don't know what the average AI experience is. I am only aware of what goes on in the MAA department at AID. We are the originators of the Computer Animation program. Therefore we usually are pushing the envelope of quality. We are also Regionally accredited by SACS which means our Bachelor Degree can transfer to other colleges and universities.
I am not sure what I have done to you that you are so hostile to me. I am merely trying to point out that there are very talented people that come out of the MAA program at AID.
As far as costs, I have a son in college in the North East. His tuition is $57,000 a year. So his Bachelor Degree education will cost in excess of $228,000. He is not an artist but is studying to be an Actuary. I only list it here as a gauge to what costs are for other colleges in other disciplines.
Sorry if my posting has offended you in some way. It was not my intention.
Unfortunately, Ai schools do get lumped into a group together. I have no experience with your school directly, but I have spoken to enough grads from different Ai(friends, coworkers) to get a pretty good picture overall. That you guys are regionally accredited is great, that the majority of Ai schools are not is terrible.
Education cost is ridiculous across the board, no doubt about it. Still doesn't make the cost of Ai justified.
Also for clarification, these views are mine and mine alone. I do not represent The Art Institute of Dallas, The Art Institutes International, EDMC or Goldman Sachs.
My posting was not meant as an advertisement for The Art Institute of Dallas. You could say I am a proud papa, or a Silverback Mountain Gorilla as I am referred to, so when someone posts on a forum that these people are crap I take offense.
I am posting on this forum as a father who has a son in college, as an interested artist in the discussion. I have had the opportunity through my 32 years teaching and my association with The Art Institute of Dallas to be exposed to some of the top talent to enter into the animation industry.
I totally agree with you that all of these people I listed worked their ass off to get to where they are. I was not trying to attribute their success to The Art Institute of Dallas. Work ethic is more important than artistic ability and these people had both. I take no credit in their success. Their success is theirs alone. I am proud to have crossed paths with them and to have shared a moment in time. I too believe that they would have succeeded in some way at something regardless of where they went to school. But having said that, The Art Institute of Dallas, the Animation Department and the faculty did make a positive impact in most of their lives. Of that I have no doubt.
I'm fortunate that I had a stepfather whose Air Force service entitled me to $40,000 in VA payments for my college years. I'm left with ~$50,000 in Federal debt after having paid off my private loans, but I have a good career and I can provide for my wife and children and pay down my mortgage. I can't really complain too much.
Not a bad list. I know ~10 of the people on it and have worked directly with a few of them, all of whom were badasses. However, I've never heard a single one of them talk about the AI or admit they ever went there, even in discussions about schools and the Art Institute. That's not much of a data point, but I was surprised to see some of the names.
When I say they typically don't produce quality grads, I'm speaking of the thousands of portfolios I've seen from AI students and grads across the country over the last several years, including recently. Off the top of my head, I've seen less than 5 that would warrant a second look, even for entry-level work. It doesn't mean that high quality grads aren't out there, but I see more portfolios and review more artists than most people, and in my direct experience, finding a hireable AI grad is like finding a needle in a haystack. It's really depressing, and I feel bad for them. I know of a school that actually "fixes" AI students...
Almost all of them are working in the tech industry in some fashion, for what it's worth.
On the subject of quality, I will say what I tell everyone who comes to me asking for advice regarding college choices (and there have been quite a few people).
In high school, you are led around, told what to read, do, and think. If you did well in high school it only proves you can follow instructions. College, on the other hand, asks you to produce something from almost nothing. Some people succeed in this arena, others do not.
My experience in AiCSD has proven this fact to me. I look back on my time there and really feel like I could have done more to truly take advantage of the experience. When I did fully apply myself, I found that teachers would often single me out as an exceptional level designer and texture artist... but I could have explored everything with that kind of passion just to truly see it all first hand...
Did my education get me where I am today? Yes and No. Yes because my company literally pays me a larger yearly salary just for holding a Bachelor's degree. Yes because part of why I was hired was for my graphic design capabilities. No because the cold call I received that led to this job was based more on non-art-related work experience on my resume.
Do I regret going to AiCSD? NO. Not only did I enjoy the experience immensely, I went back and participated in their PAC committee to ensure that their new VGP degree met the standards needed for the industry.
But like I said above... college is what you make of it, not what it makes of you. If you go to Yale but don't apply yourself, you might graduate but you're not going to get much out of the experience.
Most of the pieces had back then was just due to the fact that I drew every day regardless of assignments, to be 100% percent honest the program I was in only valued animation fellows; however ever most of them didn't use animation in the end at all because the teachers said they shouldn't
Fellow in program in 2007-2010 didn't use much else aside from 3Dsmax, zbrush was just becoming a thing, so no one knew much of zbrush during that era, and many folks were unprepared upon graduation.
To be 100% percent honest I don't trust most teachers, anywhere.
Things were alright from 2011-2012 though. I had a full time job and many commissions.
Also I think going to a school in a major city is better than just attending one in a rinky-dink city; there are just more opportunities there.
I don't want to get any heat, or seem like a no good fellow, but I'll say this; from what I have seen the folks who attend other schools with the same or lesser quality seem to find things fast due to the fact they attended a school in major city.
I would attend somewhere major in a large city if I were you though.
I'm not going to lie and say the school wasn't partially responsible for the opportunity I have here, since Hi-Rez used to bring in people to playtest from the college, and the AD here remembered me.
But I'm also not going to say AIA helped me in developing the skills that actually landed me the job.
There were some good, positive teachers trying to make the best of a bad situation, but for every good teacher swamped with work trying to help their students, there were more just collecting pay checks, passing off others work as their own, and passing people through the program that had no business being pushed forward.
AIA gave me a place that I could sit in relative peace and focus on working. But having a quiet place to sit is not worth 65k.
Avoid the school. I'd almost say avoid any school advertising game art as their draw, and find a fine art's program or classes instead. Or study on your own. Because you'll need the same drive it takes to succeed on your own that you will if you go to a college. And it'll cost a helluva a lot less.
Anyway have fun!!!
and I showed them polycount
40k+ Well spent.
yup, that's what the Ai FL was when I went. I regret not keeping up on my 2d animation skills.
Those were some of the best classes there. I remember the long nights working on keyframes and inbetweens
About taking it off the resume. I graduated over 10 years ago. If that's all it takes to eliminate candidates....well, good luck with a HR department like that, you'll need it!
So, at the very least, thank you for the excellent resources. I realize that getting a job in the Game industry is going to be more on me than the school. Hard work, networking, and essentially proving myself..
Aside from that, is there anything else that any of you would recommend? I want to succeed. This isn't something spur of the moment. I didn't just wake up one day and think "Hey! I think I'll go to art school today!" I've wanted to do this for a very long time, I'm just doing things a bit backwards.
sorry posted in the wrong thread!Xo
It's been a while, but from AI FL I remember the following:
* get to know your teachers - there can be vast quality differences, and when you can sign up for courses pick the ones with teachers where you know they're good. Also listen to more senior students what they have to say.
* AI FL didn't really focus on specialization. But in general (unless you want to go indie or tech artist) it's a good thing to specialize in our industry. AI showed me all the disciplines but they forget to tell me to specialize
* The portfolio prep classes started very late. Even though many teachers stressed that you should create folio pieces there was never really much intro on how to make a targeted folio for a certain position. That happened too late. So start thinking early about where you want to go and how your folio can support you in getting there.
* If there's a choice between classes that teach you stuff you can do on your own, and stuff that you cannot (e.g. working in a real studio with light and green-screen, or life drawing, etc), then pick the classes you cannot do on your own.
* AI was a great place to experience all stages of 3D and 2D production - I loved seeing this overview of all the possible jobs. Make use of this, but don't forget to specialize despite that. For example I did 2D animation with animation paper - that was really interesting and we had a good teacher coming from the field. All those extra classes really expanded my horizon.
* whatever the career counselor says is true, as long as you append "if you have a great folio" to every sentence
* AI FL had no folio requirements (good for me, I never had formal art education before), but this means a lot of uninspired, unmotivated and untalented people will be there. Don't let them bring you down! In high-school they may have been the rebels, the cool kids. Here they're just losers wasting their money. Remember it's about you, not them. Find like-minded people who care about art, hang out with them, even if they're the nerdy or geeky type.
This is an example we have in the UK.
http://www.creativeskillset.org/games/accreditation/
Thank you for all of the great advice regarding AI. The teachers all stress creating folio pieces but, as you said, they don't really tell you what type of folio pieces are needed for specific career paths. That's something that I'm certainly going to work on in my own time. I still have two full years left of school, so there's plenty of time to create an outstanding portfolio.
The reason that your final sentence is in bold is because I am the nerdy/geeky type. Thankfully, the few friends that I have are as well. Unfortunately, that can make things a bit difficult when it comes to making new friends. Most of my classes are filled with audio and/or fashion students who look at me as though a tentacle has somehow sprouted through my forehead when I speak to them. Go me! I sprout tentacles from my forehead!
This is the best advice in the thread and exactly what I have been telling anyone who asks me for school advice related to game art.
This exactly + Dustinbrown. I personally dropped out of Ai after a little over a year and a half in and it was the best decision I made in my education stint for sure. I dropped out, worked on portfolio for 8-9months nearly full time while doing various freelance for other 3D applicated products (safety training and some small indie projects at the time) to make some money and get a little bit of artist working experience. The classes are nice when starting out and even the later modeling and more advanced classes can be awesome if you have the staff. When I was at Ai-Orange County/CA, we had a couple Blizzard staff (Darkrusader was one of them), and he really helped me go from complete noob to having a solid grasp of where I was headed. They gave us real working advice that I still dearly hold to in my game industry career that I have now. They taught us the simple tips and tricks industry vets used such as simple optimization and time efficiency tricks, as well as overall working tips and what to really focus on with our portfolios and out of school studies. That was important, a lot of teachers want you to do their pointless homework that will never benefit you. These specific teachers would sit down and look you in the eyes and say that the work you were currently doing was just not up to par with an entry level spot. At first I felt they were being too harsh, that my work was alright enough to land me smaller jobs, etc... But it really takes brutal honesty to make it in this cut throat industry.
Also, if I had to do it over, I would absolutely go back for programming and if you really want to do art... Go back for fine art. I would then look to polycount and other resources for these technical art skills like modeling, rigging, texturing, etc. Its absolutely the way to go, most of the better artists I work with on a daily basis are self taught. It comes down to personal will and dedication. How bad do you want it? Thats the question.
Finishing that degree definitely helped me to do just that. I worked as an artist for a while but I realized that I enjoy programming more, and that my chances career advancement were just better (I was an ok artist, but not stellar), and I'm now enrolled in a software engineering masters program, which has been really helpful with my job, so far. So I'm really happy I got that degree, even if it's from AI. Also it allowed me to see the world - I don't think you can work anywhere overseas without at least a bachelor degree or extensive experience.
http://www.hexeract.net/blog/2014/1/19/design-school-or-self-taught-
In my own journey it has taken me a long time to realize that fundamentals are the most important thing, period. I never heard it much while I was at Full Sail (Except from the people teaching the fundamentals class at the start of the program.)
I kept hearing "you need to be spending 12 to 16 hours a day on art! But I never heard solid guidance on what I needed to fill those hours with. The result was that I kept spinning my wheels drawing or modeling worse versions of what was already out in the industry.
You're almost better off studying Industrial Design and architecture... then switch to entertainment from there. You'll be an absolute beast in no time.
Examples of this career path include...
Daniel Simon
http://danielsimon.com/
Ryan Church
http://ryanchurch.com/
GavrilKlimov
http://www.gavriilklimov.com/weapons#5
Daniel Dociu
http://www.tinfoilgames.com/
and of course feng zhu.
If you're an artist first you can always learn the tools later. After learning fundamentals everything else seems easy by comparison. :P (note... it's ALL still really hard :P )
Check these out:
digitaltutors.com
3dmotive.com
victory3d.com
thegnomonworkshop.com
kiwijuice.net
eat3d.com