In my experience, what they teach will not be enough to get a job.
They give very broad and shallow instruction on any given subject. You will have to work hard on personal projects (on top of school work) and stay motivated.
Ultimately it's up to you to do your own research on the school to see if it's going to be a smart move financially and for your career. Here are some links to help you know what sort of questions you should be asking. I will say the worst possible reason to choose a school is because it's close to home and convenient though. I think a lot of people make that mistake.
Spend your time and money on Gnomon, Eat3D, 3DMotive and the other countless quality online training options out there. Really watch and learn and apply yourself to that training.
And just make stuff. Make lots and lots of stuff. Good stuff. Bad stuff. So-so stuff. Crappy stuff. Excellent stuff. If you make something you like, ask yourself "Why do I like this? What's good about it? How can I improve it? How can I make it faster and better?" Always work hard and smart and be your own harshest critic. Strive to improve with each thing you make.
Go to CGHub and find some artist that inspires you and work on trying to be as good as that artist. Study from life. Draw things. Etc.
Save your money and learn to teach yourself how to be an artist. Schools can only give you methods (some good, some bad, some more industry-specific than others, etc.). You really have to put the hours in and just work at it.
I'm not knocking getting an education at all - but there are so many options now you need to look at bang-for-buck value, what you really want from an educational source and your own personal goals. Schools can be wonderful things, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that just going to X school will open the doors or fast-track you.
Logging a lot of miles - just making things - teaching yourself. I think you'll go farther and you will not accrue life-crushing debt in the process.
I went to Ai Philly,since I left school I have had zero work. I found out through multiple forums the education and portfolio I left that school with was not up to the industry standards. I wasted 3 years of my life and now have to relearn everything the proper way. Save your time and money find a better structured school that will give you all the tools you need to find work.
I think the appeal of college, (and I would say it is warranted) is that for a lot of people it is EXTREMELY difficult to motivate yourself at home, by yourself with little technology in terms of good computing equipment. The Art Institutes for me was a place I spent all my time in the computer labs. I met other really talented artists and I grew a lot from them. The labs had fast computers and all the programs I needed to start learning so I didn't have to worry about pirating or stuff like that. Truth be told I had no idea how to even get those things even if I had a computer at home that could run them!
The downside was: surface level teaching and ridiculously high costs.
Most kids in the school that were successful after school were working thier butts off in school, going far above and beyond anything in class. Some ignored assignments in "core" classes to focus on art, reading tutorials and learning programs that the school didn't teach. I would say all of my friends that have jobs now learned 90% of what they know from each other and by putting in a lot of time; they didn't learn it from the teachers. In terms of cost, my degree cost 56k. Some of my friends that deterred their payments are paying 65 to 80k. While most of my friends are working, some are not, and that is a very expensive mistake to make in life. If I could do the whole thing over again in this year I would probably research local colleges to see if they have computer courses or art programs. If you can get an art degree at a local or state college you would still have your bachelor's degree, but it would only cost you 10 to 12k. Then use all your elective courses and free time to teach yourself the trade. Make it your job for the 4 years in college, and you will have a head start into breaking into the 3d industry. Good luck!
Generally speaking, if you take everything into account, it's bad. Doesn't mean there aren't some positives to going to a typical Ai, but it is absolutely not worth the amount they charge. If I had to do it over again, I would've done a bfa in something like illustration at a cheaper regionally accredited school and learned all the cg stuff in my spare time. Basically, go to school to learn/improve art fundamentals and have the time to learn 3d on my own and create a portfolio.
Suggesting you should stick only to schools with 4 year programs that offer accreditation includes places like AI/Fullsail and rules out Futurepoly, CGMA, and Schoolism where you're likely to actually get trained by a professional artist which are basically the only places I'd ever suggest anyone spend their money in the U.S.
Depends. I got extremely lucky at The Art Institute of Los Angeles. We actually had an amazing teacher, but he's leaving next quarter (which is luckily my last.)
Without him, it wouldn't have been worth it.
So, visit the school, meet the teachers. If it seems like they could teach you a lot, and supply you with the structure you may need, then go for it.
Remember, it isn't the school, it's the teachers that make all the difference.
if you work hard and go above and beyond you can get what you need out of an AI, but don't fool yourself...They're absolute criminals. Surgeons don't pay that much in tuition - it's quite disgusting. If you're self motivated enough you can get all they can give you and more just out of the aforementioned organizations. It all comes down to motivation and time spent working. Get involved around here, stalk some of the more amazing artists and get better at what you do. You'll save yourself a few decades of debt.
I went to AiSD with mesh modeler. I think of the last 2 years worth of people who've graduated from there, roughly 80% never found work in the industry. They can largely blame themselves for not stepping up, but i feel the school's practices (not the teachers) set them up to fail. This is not an industry where a degree will net you a job. ever.
only speaking for my school and my experience, but regardless.. id advise against it.
This. I'm currently enrolled in an AI program and just finished up my first year. I've seen 3rd year students with extremely laughable skills and portfolios. My point in going to school was to do what i had been doing to learn, And learn some additional stuff for way more money than it was worth. I knew it wasn't going to offer me a hole lot. That's not to say the design courses aren't informative, or art history isn't a nice thing to know, But when it comes to Game art/design related skills and learning, They won't give you much at all. Because of how much i learned before going to school, and how much i learn on my own, They just started giving me credit for classes I'm already proficient at, And giving me the option to make class time an independent study for additional class credits(as if i was taking 2 at once without a teacher speaking a word at me).
When you can teach a subject better than a teacher can to you, and your paying 2,500~ a class specifically for that interaction and teaching, You know its bad. I wish i was exaggerating, But unfortunately I'm not.
I can't speak for every school, everywhere, exception none, But in my case, waste of time, Waste of money.
Work HARD on your own and learn as much as you can. Eat breath sleep and dream the subject you want to learn. I'd put money on you a thousand times over the kid going to AI getting a false impression of what Game art and design is.
I would not go back, and I would not recommend others go there. There were some very good teachers there, but as a whole it does not make you ready to step off campus into the job market. The school also forces you into a number of "general education" classes that really exist just to separate you from your money. Don't get me wrong, wide-spectrum education is not a bad thing, but the way they are done and the way they are mandated is quite clearly unnecessary and exploitative.
I have been recommending people interested in game art to pursue a full-blown traditional art degree from a 4-year college. Focus on traditional drawing, painting, anatomy, sculpting, and don't neglect some photography experience to better acquaint yourself with the physics and behavior of light.
THEN start pursuing the digital tools through places like Gnomon, Eat3d, and here.
I literally have learned more from Polycount than I did during my courses at AiS.
I went to an Ai in Illinois. I would not recommend going to one of those schools. I think you should take the advice of some others here, and buy a subscription to Gnomon, Eat 3d, Digital tutors, ctrlpaint, etc. and get yourself practicing things important to your career goal on a daily basis. If you have the drive and really want to break in that's all you need, and you can save yourself 70k in the process.
At the very least, pick a more respected college. I'm sure people in this thread will have some suggestions.
My experience at the Art Institute of Houston was pretty good. I had a bunch of really great teachers (sans one in 3d), and while they couldn't teach you everything, they pointed you towards the right goal and through networking with other driven students and the web, I learned a lot and it wasn't long before I had my first 3d art job out of school. Lots of kids complained, but these were also the type that didn't want to work, and expected the teachers to lay out EVERYTHING for them, and when it comes to 3d art, that's impossible.
Every job in the 3d field I've gotten has been through contacts at AI, and to this day I know a lot of my peers from school are in positions throughout Houston in the oil and gas field doing 3d and I stay in touch, never know when it will come in handy.
At the time, I didn't know about polycount, or cgtalk or anything like that.I actually got lucky, in that I knew I wanted to do something with art, and the Art Institute was really all I knew about, and after visiting them I saw what they were doing in the animation department and fell in love. But I had no idea about the industry.
Would I do it again? If I had my exact situation at the time, yes. I was there before the prices skyrocketed and got to get in with a very good group of students and teachers and we were all close. Cost to me also wasn't as much a factor at the time, as my grandparents had set up education bonds for my brother and I. I dodged a huge bullet that way, but don't know that even with that if I'd be able to afford it now.
If I had to pay the prices nowadays on loans, I wouldn't do it. The fact that you know about polycount already gives you a leg up and a place to start. There is something to be said for the networking and the overall experience, but with today's prices I don't know if it's worth it.
You know when a badass concept artist picks up zbrush for the first time and makes a badass model? Skip any school that involves teaching you how to push buttons - art is hard, tech is easy.
I enjoyed AI because I was blessed to have wicked awesome teachers who knew what they were talking about, taught up-to-date practices involving the game industry, and genuinely cared about their students success.
Corporation wise, they suck. On a case by case basis, some of them have great instructors. But like mentioned above, this was back in the day a few years ago. Not to sure now...
Though if I were to do it again, I would probably go to an art school or get involved in gnomen. I'm the type of person who needs to be told to do something to do it, so some type of structure like that is good for me in my learning process.
Fact: As the guy that looks for people to contract and hire, I can count on one hand the number of new Art Institute grads I've seen that are employable upon graduation. Most need another 2 years of work before they'll be entry level, at which point they're ~$80k in debt fighting hundreds of unemployed devs to get a $40k job they're barely qualified for. Also, the Art Institute was sued by the government in 2011 for fraud for $11 billion because of their systemic unethical behavior signing up students to go into debt to attend the school, promising jobs where there were none and (in many cases) never had been.
Opinion: It's a giant, expensive scam. I look at every resume that crosses my desk, and my gut reaction at seeing "Art Institute" on there is "oh man, this person is going to SUCK." Sorry.
There is definitely an unfortunate stigma attached to any AI - but it's not entirely fair. The teachers try their best to equip the students with what they need. Anybody with the will to work can come out of there with what they need - but there's little risk of failure(in school) if you don't give it your all.
I went to school with people who got good jobs right after graduating. Bioware, Bungie, Respawn, High Moon, Naughty Dog, Trion...it DOES happen - but never on the merit of the school or the degree. They all worked their asses off and got as much out of the school as they could. and for every one who got a good job 5-10 never did. and of those at least half give up after the first year.
I went to the Art Institute of Portland and I got hired full-time at Sucker Punch working on Infmaous 2 right after graduating.
AI did no part of this and I do not credit them. The individual teachers were good, but not the school.
It was entirely my own hard work, dedication, and networking that got me my first job.
I could have done the same if I took Gnomon stuff, and I wouldn't be $75,000 in debt.
I agree with this statement. There are good professors at each and every school but the school itself is a mess. It also comes down to the individual (i.e. You), if you sleepwalk through your classes you will be given a rude awakening once you try and look for a job.
In my experience at the (Art Institutes campus in Santa Monica) I can say that I learned very little in terms of Level and Game Design. If you are going to learn Game Design you will walk away knowing almost nothing. They do not even teach you how to write an LDD (Level Design Document). They don't even go over the basics of design.
TL;DR - AI did not properly prepare me for the real world. I learned a lot more about Game Design via blogs/books and tutorials (Self taught > school).
attended AIFL and graduated n 2003. WAS okay back then. some teachers were really great but others were really lousy. I liked that they gave a programmer nerd like me a chance who never heard of a portfolio before But today there are so many better and cheaper options for college education and it became much easier to learn 3D on your own. I don't think I would attend again today, but back then it was the right thing.
Fact: As the guy that looks for people to contract and hire, I can count on one hand the number of new Art Institute grads I've seen that are employable upon graduation. Most need another 2 years of work before they'll be entry level, at which point they're ~$80k in debt fighting hundreds of unemployed devs to get a $40k job they're barely qualified for. Also, the Art Institute was sued by the government in 2011 for fraud for $11 billion because of their systemic unethical behavior signing up students to go into debt to attend the school, promising jobs where there were none and (in many cases) never had been.
Opinion: It's a giant, expensive scam. I look at every resume that crosses my desk, and my gut reaction at seeing "Art Institute" on there is "oh man, this person is going to SUCK." Sorry.
^^ All of that is truth.
So for those of us that did attend an AI, would it be better to leave that off the resume all together since it's looked down upon for the most part? Or just rephrase it to something like, "I gotz my BFA in Artz & Shit"? I really dont want that to catch anyone's eye for the wrong reason.
It really is shitty that AI's reputation hurts it's graduates reputation as well. On top of drowning in debt, we have to bare the scarlet letter on our foreheads for life. I remember as I was attending Ai of Atlanta, peoples reaction when I told them was "ohhHh man, wooow"! Now it's the total opposite. I would really suggest investing in the software and tutorials that are out there and going the self-taught route. Your wallet will thank you later.
I started AI back in 2002 when there weren't as many resources, so at the time I thought I was making a great decision. And like Jon Jones mentioned, at the time they promised jobs when recruiting the students. They inflated the job placement rate figures and it was really deceiving. If you were majoring in Animation, a job at Kinko's was technically "in the field" to them. And they promise job placement assistance once you do graduate. They do this for 6 months after graduating and all it consisted of was a word document with a list job openings and an email addy. It use to piss me off so bad. And on top of that, they sent me prospective "employers" for various opportunities without checking them out first. One that I had ended up in jail for embezzlement or something along those lines. A lot of students and friends of mine had to deal with the same thing from this guy. And not ONCE did the school apologize or anything. They didnt even warn any of the other students of this guy. Huge learning experience for me, but as students going out into the real world...stuff like that really is the last thing they need to be dealing with.
It really is shitty that AI's reputation hurts it's graduates reputation as well. On top of drowning in debt, we have to bare the scarlet letter on our foreheads for life.
I'm not defending AI, but for an industry where every pro knows that the folio matters more than anything else, it says a lot more about the recruiter than about you if they treat your choice of college as a scarlet letter on your forehead.
So for those of us that did attend an AI, would it be better to leave that off the resume all together since it's looked down upon for the most part?
No. Though you can if you want because it really won't make a difference either way unless you're applying out of country or to a studio that filters applicants by education level.
No one has ever said "Well he's got a great portfolio and looks qualified for the job but damn... Art institute? Maybe we should pass"
Had a friend who went there and left after a month, said it was complete waste of time. Do research, and make sure you're not walking into a trap is the best advice I can give.
No. Though you can if you want because it really won't make a difference either way unless you're applying out of country or to a studio that filters applicants by education level.
No one has ever said "Well he's got a great portfolio and looks qualified for the job but damn... Art institute? Maybe we should pass"
Portfolio is all that matters.
That's exactly how I feel, but if the resume is the first thing someone sees before even viewing a portfolio...then they pretty much made up their mind already, like Jon Jones pointed out. I have a link to my (bare) folio' in my resume...so I would hope they would click it instead of just saying, "Oh..AI, pssHH"!
But if leaving off the name of the school where someone attended and just putting "Diploma/Degree in Your Major - Year Graduated" helps, then it might be a better alternative. Just a thought.
@Krwamm - I'm personally proud of all I've accomplished, regardless of where I decided to attend college. I just think it stinks how AI and it's grads are viewed.
Probably best to leave it on, but throw it at the very bottom. I don't believe a degree should have any bearing on whether an artist is hireable or not, but I wouldn't have gotten my current job if I didn't have one.
@Krwamm - I'm personally proud of all I've accomplished, regardless of where I decided to attend college. I just think it stinks how AI and it's grads are viewed.
by going into hiding you're helping the situation. I don't recommend AI but I want to show that not all AI graduates are crap. But if everyone hides AI on the resume then recruiters are indeed right that only crap people come from AI.
Actually I have a lot of respect for people who put AI at the resume and have a great folio, because in this school you really have to show initiative to get ahead in the mass of mediocre and unskilled people. AI doesn't really make it easy for you to succeed, so hats off to everyone who made it!
To me at least it would look even more weird if I don't see a uni on the resume and just a degree - you're ashamed to put your own choice of uni there? Or are you just an opportunist? What else are you hiding from me? I can understand Jon Jones simply because AI also turns out a lot of crap people, but if this clouds your judgment or makes you issue a blanket ban on all applicants then you're just a shit recruiter.
To me at least it would look even more weird if I don't see a uni on the resume and just a degree - you're ashamed to put your own choice of uni there? Or are you just an opportunist? What else are you hiding from me? I can understand Jon Jones simply because AI also turns out a lot of crap people, but if this clouds your judgment or makes you issue a blanket ban on all applicants then you're just a shit recruiter.
Agreed. I'd never pass on a candidate because there was AI on their resume. I look at every word of everyone's resume and every part of their portfolio whether they're amazing or whether they need more time to develop their skills.
I do approve of the suggestion of letting education quietly live all the way down at the bottom though.
If I had it to do all over again, I think I would find a community or state college that had a great fine arts program, I would supplement in some business and personal finance courses in case I decided to go freelance, and I would learn the software on my own. But hindsight's 20/20.
That is an absolutely fantastic suggestion, and IMO ideal if you're going to go to a school.
If I had it to do all over again, I think I would find a community or state college that had a great fine arts program, I would supplement in some business and personal finance courses in case I decided to go freelance, and I would learn the software on my own. But hindsight's 20/20.
yep. lots of better options available these days to learn the 3d part. Focus on classical skills like drawing, sculpting, etc. instead! 3d tools are easier to learn nowadays than ever before thanks to all the online resources.
Art Institute of Pittsburgh grad here. Landed my first gig at a AAA, just a few months out of school. Although, this was primarily due to the fact that I spent 6 days a week at the school, for well over 12 hours a day... not to mention the copious amounts of time spent on developer forums. You get out what you put in.
Had I not gone to AiP, I would not be where I am today. My own personal motivation may have taken me somewhere better/worse.... who knows. I do know that nothing is worth the debt that I'm currently in.
I graduated AIFL in 07. I also wish I went a different route or done it differently. Now I am getting raped by sallie mae! I don't see how they can justify the price of school.
I first went to Ai back in 2005ish. They were teaching us how to make games for the 6th Generation. Needless to say it was really..really tough for me to play catch up when the 7th generation came about. Ai was good for only one thing, and that was showing me about Polycount. After I graduated it took me a year and a half before I could land my first job.
Regardless of what school it is, I still think that as a game artist, having a degree simply doesn't matter -- yet. I spend a lot of time bagging on schools, but let's try something positive.
Question: Are there any schools or programs out there you guys admire and think ARE worth the time and money? If you saw it on someone's resume would you think "whoa, I gotta check this out!" ?
Question: Are there any schools or programs out there you guys admire and think ARE worth the time and money? If you saw it on someone's resume would you think "whoa, I gotta check this out!" ?
I have seen a lot of good work come out of the Vancouver Film School. If I heard that, I would be at least mildly interested.
I was there a few weeks back for their animation grad presentations. These were people at the end of a four year program but the 3D wasn't all that hot except for two or three people. The 2d stuff however was terrific and made it worth the trip.
Art Institute of Dallas Alumni
Program: Media Arts and Animation
Between the student housing and staying a few more quarters to make sure my portfolio was hireable.... I am 160k in debt. Was it worth that much? I don't think so.
I did however get hired 2 months out of school and was already doing a bit of freelance. I attribute this to a few things.
1. Micheal Eudy
2. Brett Briley - Polycount Member: Spark
3. Busting my ass.
4. Polycount
Micheal Eudy (main 3d teacher at AiD) made me a very well rounded artist. Taught me a bit of design, how to make a website, as well as made me a better person and self thinker. He was not a game guy, but that did not make him any less amazing. I refer to him often as my mentor.
Brett Briley (teaches at TAD now) taught me lowpoly. And I mean really taught me how to crunch them triangles. He was a good balance to the school because he taught the lowpoly process when no one else did.
Even without these 2 guys you can do anything if you work hard enough. And I constantly told myself that I was going to get hired. And I made it happen at all costs. I had to make sacrifices. Video Games, friends, and even my girlfriend (now wife). This is big because a lot of students can't let go of partying, socializing, or video games long enough to learn anything let alone build a portfolio.
Polycount is what eventually got me hired from posting my work and networking.
Not really advice as to go one way or the other... more just laid out my path and what went right. In the end I may have made it into the industry... but who knows how long it would have taken me to figure out that I wanted to be a game developer and even stumble across polycount while I am flipping burgers in some small town in the middle of Texas trying to pay rent.
School seemed like the only solution at the time. So in a way I did need it.
Replies
They give very broad and shallow instruction on any given subject. You will have to work hard on personal projects (on top of school work) and stay motivated.
Justin and Dustin have great points and articles.
And just make stuff. Make lots and lots of stuff. Good stuff. Bad stuff. So-so stuff. Crappy stuff. Excellent stuff. If you make something you like, ask yourself "Why do I like this? What's good about it? How can I improve it? How can I make it faster and better?" Always work hard and smart and be your own harshest critic. Strive to improve with each thing you make.
Go to CGHub and find some artist that inspires you and work on trying to be as good as that artist. Study from life. Draw things. Etc.
Save your money and learn to teach yourself how to be an artist. Schools can only give you methods (some good, some bad, some more industry-specific than others, etc.). You really have to put the hours in and just work at it.
I'm not knocking getting an education at all - but there are so many options now you need to look at bang-for-buck value, what you really want from an educational source and your own personal goals. Schools can be wonderful things, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that just going to X school will open the doors or fast-track you.
Logging a lot of miles - just making things - teaching yourself. I think you'll go farther and you will not accrue life-crushing debt in the process.
JMO, naturally.
only speaking for my school and my experience, but regardless.. id advise against it.
The downside was: surface level teaching and ridiculously high costs.
Most kids in the school that were successful after school were working thier butts off in school, going far above and beyond anything in class. Some ignored assignments in "core" classes to focus on art, reading tutorials and learning programs that the school didn't teach. I would say all of my friends that have jobs now learned 90% of what they know from each other and by putting in a lot of time; they didn't learn it from the teachers. In terms of cost, my degree cost 56k. Some of my friends that deterred their payments are paying 65 to 80k. While most of my friends are working, some are not, and that is a very expensive mistake to make in life. If I could do the whole thing over again in this year I would probably research local colleges to see if they have computer courses or art programs. If you can get an art degree at a local or state college you would still have your bachelor's degree, but it would only cost you 10 to 12k. Then use all your elective courses and free time to teach yourself the trade. Make it your job for the 4 years in college, and you will have a head start into breaking into the 3d industry. Good luck!
I went to AiSD and that worked out pretty good for me, its all about how hard youre willing to work and the teachers there.
I had some pretty amazing teachers and some really shitty ones.
AiSD is good for its mentor ship through sony, and aiLA is good for having game wizards program
Suggesting you should stick only to schools with 4 year programs that offer accreditation includes places like AI/Fullsail and rules out Futurepoly, CGMA, and Schoolism where you're likely to actually get trained by a professional artist which are basically the only places I'd ever suggest anyone spend their money in the U.S.
Without him, it wouldn't have been worth it.
So, visit the school, meet the teachers. If it seems like they could teach you a lot, and supply you with the structure you may need, then go for it.
Remember, it isn't the school, it's the teachers that make all the difference.
I went to AiSD with mesh modeler. I think of the last 2 years worth of people who've graduated from there, roughly 80% never found work in the industry. They can largely blame themselves for not stepping up, but i feel the school's practices (not the teachers) set them up to fail. This is not an industry where a degree will net you a job. ever.
This. I'm currently enrolled in an AI program and just finished up my first year. I've seen 3rd year students with extremely laughable skills and portfolios. My point in going to school was to do what i had been doing to learn, And learn some additional stuff for way more money than it was worth. I knew it wasn't going to offer me a hole lot. That's not to say the design courses aren't informative, or art history isn't a nice thing to know, But when it comes to Game art/design related skills and learning, They won't give you much at all. Because of how much i learned before going to school, and how much i learn on my own, They just started giving me credit for classes I'm already proficient at, And giving me the option to make class time an independent study for additional class credits(as if i was taking 2 at once without a teacher speaking a word at me).
When you can teach a subject better than a teacher can to you, and your paying 2,500~ a class specifically for that interaction and teaching, You know its bad. I wish i was exaggerating, But unfortunately I'm not.
I can't speak for every school, everywhere, exception none, But in my case, waste of time, Waste of money.
Work HARD on your own and learn as much as you can. Eat breath sleep and dream the subject you want to learn. I'd put money on you a thousand times over the kid going to AI getting a false impression of what Game art and design is.
I would not go back, and I would not recommend others go there. There were some very good teachers there, but as a whole it does not make you ready to step off campus into the job market. The school also forces you into a number of "general education" classes that really exist just to separate you from your money. Don't get me wrong, wide-spectrum education is not a bad thing, but the way they are done and the way they are mandated is quite clearly unnecessary and exploitative.
I have been recommending people interested in game art to pursue a full-blown traditional art degree from a 4-year college. Focus on traditional drawing, painting, anatomy, sculpting, and don't neglect some photography experience to better acquaint yourself with the physics and behavior of light.
THEN start pursuing the digital tools through places like Gnomon, Eat3d, and here.
I literally have learned more from Polycount than I did during my courses at AiS.
At the very least, pick a more respected college. I'm sure people in this thread will have some suggestions.
Every job in the 3d field I've gotten has been through contacts at AI, and to this day I know a lot of my peers from school are in positions throughout Houston in the oil and gas field doing 3d and I stay in touch, never know when it will come in handy.
At the time, I didn't know about polycount, or cgtalk or anything like that.I actually got lucky, in that I knew I wanted to do something with art, and the Art Institute was really all I knew about, and after visiting them I saw what they were doing in the animation department and fell in love. But I had no idea about the industry.
Would I do it again? If I had my exact situation at the time, yes. I was there before the prices skyrocketed and got to get in with a very good group of students and teachers and we were all close. Cost to me also wasn't as much a factor at the time, as my grandparents had set up education bonds for my brother and I. I dodged a huge bullet that way, but don't know that even with that if I'd be able to afford it now.
If I had to pay the prices nowadays on loans, I wouldn't do it. The fact that you know about polycount already gives you a leg up and a place to start. There is something to be said for the networking and the overall experience, but with today's prices I don't know if it's worth it.
Corporation wise, they suck. On a case by case basis, some of them have great instructors. But like mentioned above, this was back in the day a few years ago. Not to sure now...
Though if I were to do it again, I would probably go to an art school or get involved in gnomen. I'm the type of person who needs to be told to do something to do it, so some type of structure like that is good for me in my learning process.
Alot of game related studies are usually under 'trade' studies, which means next to zero standards other then the teacher.
The entire 'you make connections' is also kinda BS, since it can become a very political situation out of the blue for no reason.
So in short: No.
In long: NOOOOOOOooooOOoooOOOOOOOOooooOOOooOOOOooOOOOOOooOo
Opinion: It's a giant, expensive scam. I look at every resume that crosses my desk, and my gut reaction at seeing "Art Institute" on there is "oh man, this person is going to SUCK." Sorry.
AI did no part of this and I do not credit them. The individual teachers were good, but not the school.
It was entirely my own hard work, dedication, and networking that got me my first job.
I could have done the same if I took Gnomon stuff, and I wouldn't be $75,000 in debt.
I went to school with people who got good jobs right after graduating. Bioware, Bungie, Respawn, High Moon, Naughty Dog, Trion...it DOES happen - but never on the merit of the school or the degree. They all worked their asses off and got as much out of the school as they could. and for every one who got a good job 5-10 never did. and of those at least half give up after the first year.
Unless you feel like jumping into $110K of debt, then by all means. Enjoy.
I agree with this statement. There are good professors at each and every school but the school itself is a mess. It also comes down to the individual (i.e. You), if you sleepwalk through your classes you will be given a rude awakening once you try and look for a job.
In my experience at the (Art Institutes campus in Santa Monica) I can say that I learned very little in terms of Level and Game Design. If you are going to learn Game Design you will walk away knowing almost nothing. They do not even teach you how to write an LDD (Level Design Document). They don't even go over the basics of design.
TL;DR - AI did not properly prepare me for the real world. I learned a lot more about Game Design via blogs/books and tutorials (Self taught > school).
- D. Carmine
W T F
I went to AIFL at the same time
^^ All of that is truth.
So for those of us that did attend an AI, would it be better to leave that off the resume all together since it's looked down upon for the most part? Or just rephrase it to something like, "I gotz my BFA in Artz & Shit"? I really dont want that to catch anyone's eye for the wrong reason.
It really is shitty that AI's reputation hurts it's graduates reputation as well. On top of drowning in debt, we have to bare the scarlet letter on our foreheads for life. I remember as I was attending Ai of Atlanta, peoples reaction when I told them was "ohhHh man, wooow"! Now it's the total opposite. I would really suggest investing in the software and tutorials that are out there and going the self-taught route. Your wallet will thank you later.
I started AI back in 2002 when there weren't as many resources, so at the time I thought I was making a great decision. And like Jon Jones mentioned, at the time they promised jobs when recruiting the students. They inflated the job placement rate figures and it was really deceiving. If you were majoring in Animation, a job at Kinko's was technically "in the field" to them. And they promise job placement assistance once you do graduate. They do this for 6 months after graduating and all it consisted of was a word document with a list job openings and an email addy. It use to piss me off so bad. And on top of that, they sent me prospective "employers" for various opportunities without checking them out first. One that I had ended up in jail for embezzlement or something along those lines. A lot of students and friends of mine had to deal with the same thing from this guy. And not ONCE did the school apologize or anything. They didnt even warn any of the other students of this guy. Huge learning experience for me, but as students going out into the real world...stuff like that really is the last thing they need to be dealing with.
yeah I know
[ame="
I'm not defending AI, but for an industry where every pro knows that the folio matters more than anything else, it says a lot more about the recruiter than about you if they treat your choice of college as a scarlet letter on your forehead.
No one has ever said "Well he's got a great portfolio and looks qualified for the job but damn... Art institute? Maybe we should pass"
Portfolio is all that matters.
AI is bad news stay away
That's exactly how I feel, but if the resume is the first thing someone sees before even viewing a portfolio...then they pretty much made up their mind already, like Jon Jones pointed out. I have a link to my (bare) folio' in my resume...so I would hope they would click it instead of just saying, "Oh..AI, pssHH"!
But if leaving off the name of the school where someone attended and just putting "Diploma/Degree in Your Major - Year Graduated" helps, then it might be a better alternative. Just a thought.
@Krwamm - I'm personally proud of all I've accomplished, regardless of where I decided to attend college. I just think it stinks how AI and it's grads are viewed.
by going into hiding you're helping the situation. I don't recommend AI but I want to show that not all AI graduates are crap. But if everyone hides AI on the resume then recruiters are indeed right that only crap people come from AI.
Actually I have a lot of respect for people who put AI at the resume and have a great folio, because in this school you really have to show initiative to get ahead in the mass of mediocre and unskilled people. AI doesn't really make it easy for you to succeed, so hats off to everyone who made it!
To me at least it would look even more weird if I don't see a uni on the resume and just a degree - you're ashamed to put your own choice of uni there? Or are you just an opportunist? What else are you hiding from me? I can understand Jon Jones simply because AI also turns out a lot of crap people, but if this clouds your judgment or makes you issue a blanket ban on all applicants then you're just a shit recruiter.
Agreed. I'd never pass on a candidate because there was AI on their resume. I look at every word of everyone's resume and every part of their portfolio whether they're amazing or whether they need more time to develop their skills.
I do approve of the suggestion of letting education quietly live all the way down at the bottom though.
That is an absolutely fantastic suggestion, and IMO ideal if you're going to go to a school.
yep. lots of better options available these days to learn the 3d part. Focus on classical skills like drawing, sculpting, etc. instead! 3d tools are easier to learn nowadays than ever before thanks to all the online resources.
Had I not gone to AiP, I would not be where I am today. My own personal motivation may have taken me somewhere better/worse.... who knows. I do know that nothing is worth the debt that I'm currently in.
Question: Are there any schools or programs out there you guys admire and think ARE worth the time and money? If you saw it on someone's resume would you think "whoa, I gotta check this out!" ?
I have seen a lot of good work come out of the Vancouver Film School. If I heard that, I would be at least mildly interested.
What's the word on Sheridan these days? I got a request from them recently to use my articles as coursework. Back in the day they were srs bsns!
I was there a few weeks back for their animation grad presentations. These were people at the end of a four year program but the 3D wasn't all that hot except for two or three people. The 2d stuff however was terrific and made it worth the trip.
Program: Media Arts and Animation
Between the student housing and staying a few more quarters to make sure my portfolio was hireable.... I am 160k in debt. Was it worth that much? I don't think so.
I did however get hired 2 months out of school and was already doing a bit of freelance. I attribute this to a few things.
1. Micheal Eudy
2. Brett Briley - Polycount Member: Spark
3. Busting my ass.
4. Polycount
Micheal Eudy (main 3d teacher at AiD) made me a very well rounded artist. Taught me a bit of design, how to make a website, as well as made me a better person and self thinker. He was not a game guy, but that did not make him any less amazing. I refer to him often as my mentor.
Brett Briley (teaches at TAD now) taught me lowpoly. And I mean really taught me how to crunch them triangles. He was a good balance to the school because he taught the lowpoly process when no one else did.
Even without these 2 guys you can do anything if you work hard enough. And I constantly told myself that I was going to get hired. And I made it happen at all costs. I had to make sacrifices. Video Games, friends, and even my girlfriend (now wife). This is big because a lot of students can't let go of partying, socializing, or video games long enough to learn anything let alone build a portfolio.
Polycount is what eventually got me hired from posting my work and networking.
Not really advice as to go one way or the other... more just laid out my path and what went right. In the end I may have made it into the industry... but who knows how long it would have taken me to figure out that I wanted to be a game developer and even stumble across polycount while I am flipping burgers in some small town in the middle of Texas trying to pay rent.
School seemed like the only solution at the time. So in a way I did need it.
Just wish it didn't cost 160k...
Edit: 666 posts!!!! :poly130: