hard angles on curved objects

ahtiandr

Hi all! I am having some real trouble with hard surface modeling. I am trying to make some curvy armour pieces with hard angles in 3ds max and cant get my topology so that there is no bumps near the corners. Here some pics

3ds max topology


Here is quick dynamesh model in zbrush and you can there is no bump near the same corner
zbrush dynamesh

Ark

You really need more geomtry to maintain the curvature. Checkout this thread: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014

sp0nge

Hey, the pinching problem is caused by a combination of the surface angles it's trying to smooth between and the supporting edge loops. Because your faces are so flat with so little geometry across them, the smoothing is focussed on points 1,2 and 3 in the image below, and the rest of the surface stays flat as it can., causing a peak/pinch.



People say 'add more gemoetry' a lot without really explaining how to add it, so i've tried to give an example below, hopefully it's clear enough!



The premise of what I'm trying to explain is that it can be all too easy to let the mesh smooth do all the work, but the construction of the low is massively important for avoiding issues like this. You need to dictate the curvature of the object where possible in the low and not leave it to mesh smooth (which rarely understands what you want!) adding in plenty of loops, keeping a clean edge flow like in my image and dictating the surface curvature yourself will keep things clean. If you need to get the angle sharper, just add more loops, but bear in mind YOU have to keep everything spaced nicely and set up the surface curve for mesh smooth to follow - give mesh smooth a square and you'll usually get a smooth square...

EDIT: TLDR - do what ark said, EQ explains things way better than me :P

ahtiandr

Thank you so much for your tips! Very appreciate it! Here I tried to add more base topology and I think it is getting better now but I am quite worried about the polycount now. I am not doing lowpoly but the more quads the harder to move them around. What do you think ?

Also I am not quite understanding this line :

"set up the surface curve for mesh smooth to follow"

could you explain it a bit better please ?

I was always using turbosmooth but is there any real difference with mesh smooth ?

rube

You'll probably get better results in this case by creasing your edges instead of adding so much support geometry. I've done some panels like that, in maya, and that worked much better.

ahtiandr

and how I can do this in max ?

Bartalon

You can crease in Max by selecting your edges and ramping up the Crease value located under the Edit Edges section of Edge component mode.

One thing I don't like about creasing in Max is there's no default feedback (like Maya has) that shows an edge is creased.

ahtiandr

Bartalon, ok I tried that feature in max but the edges are extremely sharp. For instance, in modo you can set the angle of sharpness on selected edges and you can make them a bit smooth like they should be. Anyway, it seems that the only choice is to add more base topology and perhaps I can smooth some weird looking creases in zbrush.

ahtiandr

Finally I found a solution! There is a plugin called Turbosmooth Pro by mariussilaghi. It does exactly what I need! This plugin saved my day!

http://www.mariussilaghi.com/products/turbosmooth-pro

Thaurdol

Sorry if I sound judging but a plugin to solve a problem is avoiding the issue. I'm following 3D classes in my university at the moment and we started from the basics how to model low 1st and then high while using only what max offers us by default thus ensuring that we can do it without a plugin or script.

I don't know if you are doing this as a personal hobby or studying to become a professional, but I would bet my money that a studio might not buy special plugins but rely on the artists personal skills of making the mesh correctly. Although this may depend on the studio at hand.

Try to reach the result you want without the help of plugins to do it for you, it will feel so much better in the end knowing that you solved something by yourself.

ahtiandr

Well I am actually working in a studio and we are using modo for modeling and modo has this feature by default and I am sure it will be available in next max version. I agree that it is important to know how to make clean topology but since I know how to make it, now I only want to speed up my workflow.

poopipe

Use meshsmooth rather than turbosmooth and you get full feedback on your creasing etc. Its been in there since v3 or 4

ahtiandr

poopipe wrote: »

Use meshsmooth rather than turbosmooth and you get full feedback on your creasing etc. Its been in there since v3 or 4

Well I tried that too but the creased edge is very sharp. Just look at the plugin video and try to make same results with the standard meshsmooth.

http://youtu.be/eZXyoBg3hZ4