I have been doing low poly, box modeling, poly pulling for a long while, and in that aspect, I'd say I'm not doing bad. I got some decent topology and shape and form.
And now I'm getting more into ZBrush. And god, sculpting a face is totally different.
I can see some shape and form for guideline when I look at a real face. But I can't do anything with it in ZBrush yet.
How do you start ? What part do you start with ?
I try to get in Glabella, eye sockets, nasal ridge, and jaw line first. But I'm not getting what I want
Just follow a basic tutorial to start with. And maybe use it as a base for more details in zBrush. I know this tutorial has been useful for me in the past. http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.php
That's my opinion, let's see what others have to say
Something like this:
Obviously knowledge of facial anatomy is crucial - some things need to be really understood/studied/replicated accurately in order to make a convincing sculpted head.
Now on top of that, I hate being the guy who "blames the tool" but I personally find it very hard to make a convincing, well structured head with subtle elegant features straight within Zbrush. Things tend to warp in weird ways, the move brush grabs too much mass, and so on. Now of course many awesome artists can prove me wrong on this ; yet I did notice some re-occurring oddities across quite a few Zbrush-made busts. (on mine, and others).
I would strongly recommend you to simply export the current state of your sculpt to OBJ and keep messing with it in Mudbox. I am not here to start a tool war - I just think it would be a shame to not try another tool that could turn out to be perfect for you !
Also, if you end up staying in Zbrush, try to avoid shift-snapping to the front view at all costs. Reason is, if the head model is slightly tilted in side view (looking ever so slightly up or down), you will be tempted to adjust the features in front view so that they face the camera dead on. This would produce a very warped 3D model, with a weird look - as if the woman "looks like another person when viewed from a different angle"
You should slow down and actually look at your reference, proportions and angles are everything. I'd suggest working at the lowest subdivision you can at any given time, which will force you to think about the large forms.
Ultimately you have to make something that looks good, and doesn't just look good enough.
Maybe try writing a list of all the problems you see on your sculpt and try working through them. Be harsh with yourself when writing the list.
Try using the Clay Buildup or Clay Tubes brush and just start defining basic anatomy shapes. Just keep practicing. The only thing we can help you with is just that, advice on where to start, you gotta do your own research and build your own mental visual library to work from. Use references, picture overlays, etc, anything you need, to get the results you desire. It will only come with time. Practice, practice, practice. Your first models will look most likely be garbage, dont let it get you down, just make sure you are pushing to improve and that is what matters.
As for the argument against zBrush, I would say I do no agree. What the move tool grabs is totally up to the user. Also, the move topological tool what you should be using when in your general sculpting stage, as the standard move tool grabs verts instead of an entire area.
Disclaimer, I am not a character artist, but I do use zBrush regularly and have messed with facial and other anatomy studies in my spare time, and have had success working from a dynamesh sphere and then later re-topo-ing, and other steps along the workflow. Other artists that use this method include Rafiel Grassetti (http://grassetti.wordpress.com/) and Frank Tzeng (http://franktzeng-art.blogspot.com/). Not saying these are their workflows, but I know they have used the method with solid results.
I watched a few sculpting videos, and I pick my Brushes as Clay, ClayBuildUp, Move, MoveTopology, Dam_Standard, hPolish and TrimDynamic.
Starting with sculpting nose or lips seems like a good start Thanks
The reason why I am saying this is, you don't want to have to work around such locked landmarks while sculpting - especially for anatomy practice. Just like in that real clay video.
Trotting through the Valley of the Suck right now.
And for the love of god use a different matcap like Matcap Grey or something, the Red Wax material is very deceitful.
And slow down. You're still too high subdivided, be patient and stop posting updates every hour. Don't get hung up on areas and just neglect them or try to sculpt them from your memory either, that's why you should have a good amount of reference to help you with.
You've got a lot of really sound advice in this thread, don't take it for granted and good luck.
Just realized I don't have many sideview reference.
Please ignore that ugly ear placeholder for now !
a warrior from a sphere (good way to see how to approach the upper body in a conceptual sense)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wH70X2PxrI"]Warrior Speed Sculpt part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
there are others on my channel, but I'm not pushing it or anything, but the face is a layered process. You really need to understand that its not just a face, but many many other things underneath it, that is giving it its overall shape. It might help to pop a low res skull in there to help keep volume.
The main thing with faces in zbrush is that it takes a LOT of practice. Both for developing familiarity with the brushes/tools, and of course for practicing the anatomy. I've sculpted a couple hundred heads and am still nowhere near as good as I'd like to be.
For your entertainment, some heads from late 2011, and some from earlier this year. LOL
From this the next thing you post should be a blocked in head shape without any real defined features. get some critique make fixes and post again until a featureless head has good proportion.
Or you mean just bare face muscle without lips nor eyes O o'
And more important - just practice! Sculpt one head a day (1-2h sesions)...next two months and results will come.
This one I started from a sphere.
Pardon my correction but these are my critiques, hope this helps.
Yes I just wokeup so I am kind of half a sleep while critiqing you.
Also, you dont need to go fully max sub division, you can work with the shapes and form of the face in the lower subdivisions. You have to resist the subdivisions until you are fully satisfied with the shape of current subdivision.
Or you can use Dynamesh.
Hahaha....it's frustrating isn't it Pyr?
I will take you up on that offer ASAP though.
Skype search for murry lancashire, gtalk my email is [email protected].
Think I messed up the face area again while trying to put lips in there. Need to gather more face side-view ref.
I'm basically making new heads every day now. Take it as far as I can, see how I mess it up, restart a new one, rinse and repeat.
Stop working at high details. Work at low, make sure your rough forms WORK before you even CONSIDER subdividing. And no, just because you can slide up and down the subdivide bar doesn't mean it's okay to subdivide. Force yourself to work from big to small details.
Then do a few heads with a basemesh (Use reference) I recommend Zbro's Base head Unless you want to make your own.
Also try sculpting individual features of the face on the sides of a single cube. Like 6 different lips, eyes or Noses using dynamesh (Use reference)
Then try to tackle a head from a sphere. Try some with and without reference.
Watch others work. Heres my 2 favorites.
ZbroZ and JMC3D
Uploading as I go, will reply a new post when I have something decent.
This is so I know when/where I'm starting to mess up.
Pop a new sphere, dynameshed for 6k tris, got the basic head shape.
Using Ref. Not using skull this time.
Still at 6.5k tris.
Gonna try making skulls now.
Swizzle posted a download link of a bunch of high res photos he'd taken of a Asaro Head maquette a while back.
You'll also find any number of variations from other artists in a Google image search.
I'm actually toying with the idea of modelling one up for myself and 3d printing it.