I want to be a modeler for a game development studio but I really have no clue where to start or where to look (I live in the middle of no where so I know relocating is step 1 lol)
But I will be attending a 3 year college program in Game Design (specifically environment art, modeling, texturing and animating part of the process)
They teach Maya there, I am more exposed to 3ds max, so my first question is: which programs do companies use more nowadays? (like which ones should I focus more/less attention to haha)
Will college be a benefit to me?
Im 25 years old and looking for a career change, so yea...
I wish I started earlier.
I think that Maya is starting to be used more now a-days but you can't go wrong with being good in both, (I personally use 3ds Max) I'd choose whatever is best for you, if you learn one you can jump to another easier anyways.
You should check out this sticky http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108342 you can get some great information on here.
My view about degrees is if you can afford it go for it but in all honesty for game art I wouldn't do it... I would get a degree in something else, something to fall back on just in case.
Unless you can guarantee quality instructors that teach up to date methods and workflow, and the program isn't chalk full of fluffer courses which are meaningless/useless to you as a 3D artist... I wouldn't recommend college. Also because they cost SO much. If you have the dedication and work ethic to teach yourself, I'd choose that route. This community is the best source of knowledge, and dvds are a cheap video alternative too.
^This. The only advantage of College is that it will be easier to concentrate on your work and not get distracted/discouraged.
If you are willing to learn by yourself through internet communities and tutorials, you will probably learn faster, better workflows while spending a lot less. And the good thing is that you can do that even from the middle of nowhere
Not in the art industry.. its all about the portfolio.. if you can make good art, you'll be better off than someone with a degree that makes mediocre art.
Most art schools are not very good, and will load you up with as much as 100k of student debt and won't make you employable upon graduation. I look through portfolios and resumes constantly and make hiring\contracting decisions based on that, and in my experience, maybe 1 art school graduate in 100 is even barely employable at a junior level. Most grads need an additional year or two of work because the curriculum and the teachers are almost universally inadequate.
There was a blog post\rant that went around last week called "Don't Go To Art School." It was one-sided and a bit ranty, but he has an EXCELLENT list of alternate resources you can use to educate yourself for cheap to free, and you can find that list here: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/138c5efd45e9
You know how I learned? Through teaching myself. By using the internet and the vast amounts of free tutorials. I have seriously learned more about game design reading blogs off of Gamasutra than 11 weeks in level design 101.
Really think about it before you fall into student debt. You have all the resources you need right in front of you. It really boils down to you as an individual.
Listen to the guys on this thread. They all have great advice.
25 and gonna take 3 yr program, so you'll be close to turning 30 and apply for an ENTRY LEVEL position???
My opinion for your age group is the self-study path. If you can't learn from a $35, $15, $6 or free video tutorial, a career as a game artist is probably not optimal for you. I don't mean to insult. Think about it, it's a tech heavy industry. Techniques and tools update all the time. Learning doesn't stop even after you're hired. You can install free edu versions of industry tools from Autodesk and you don't even need to be in a school (pick the "homeschool" option).
Maybe your plan is to use part of the loan (I'm assuming you'll get loans) to enable you to move. Okay, maybe I can respect that. But if you're looking at it as a guaranteed ticket to a career, re-think before signing any loan doc.
25 and gonna take 3 yr program, so you'll be close to turning 30 and apply for an ENTRY LEVEL position???
My opinion for your age group is the self-study path. If you can't learn from a $35, $15, $6 or free video tutorial, a career as a game artist is probably not optimal for you. I don't mean to insult. Think about it, it's a tech heavy industry. Techniques and tools update all the time. Learning doesn't stop even after you're hired. You can install free edu versions of industry tools from Autodesk and you don't even need to be in a school (pick the "homeschool" option).
Maybe your plan is to use part of the loan (I'm assuming you'll get loans) to enable you to move. Okay, maybe I can respect that. But if you're looking at it as a guaranteed ticket to a career, re-think before signing any loan doc.
Good luck.
Awesome. So entry level isnt happening for me. Thanks for the advice. lol.
@Jon Jones .. Im looking at Becker College in Worcester massachussets.
Stay away from schools for anything art related, at least if you live in the US since college prices are insane, and just the other day congress decided to allow interest rates to increase.
Go buy some tutorials from EAT3D and you'll get a better education then 90% of the schools out there that teach such subjects anyway.
25 and gonna take 3 yr program, so you'll be close to turning 30 and apply for an ENTRY LEVEL position???
So what? Most people that enter the industry are somewhere in their mid-20s anyway. If someone has passion for the subject, is skilled, and is willing to work the needed number of hours, I see no problem.
I was in my mid 20's when I entered the industry and know other people who were the same age when they started. I don't see a problem here at all. Although I'd worry about student loans.
Awesome. So entry level isnt happening for me. Thanks for the advice. lol.
To be perfectly honest, I almost replied to MagicSugar about that comment, but decided against it.
There's a lot of perceived ageism in this industry. However, this isn't usually down to a numerical factor e.g. you're 28, so there's no way you could possibly handle the duties of an entry-level artist.
When most people talk about older people entering games as a profession, they're usually coming at it from the fact that the older someone is, their priorities are likely to change. By this age, you're less likely to want to sleep under a desk and work for terrible wages. You might have a spouse or fiancee, or children, or any number of other things that might interfere with the fact you may have to relocate every 18 months to 2 years to find work.
However, it's certainly nothing to do with talent. If your portfolio is awesome, and you can work well with others and aren't a prima dona, you're still in with a chance, just as much as a younger guy.
I actually had a conversation about this very topic earlier on this evening with my fiancee. I just turned 31, and have the same "am I too old" doubts as everyone else. After hearing her say that I should work on my portfolio and stop worrying about moving us around every 2 years, I feel much better.
Im looking at Becker College in Worcester Massachussets.
In response to this? Just don't. Becker has some great programs (nursing, veterinary tech etc.), but their graphics programs are terrible. My ex-wife went to Becker, and while some of the staff there were awesome in a personal, supportive sense, the actual curricula of their "graphics" majors was pitiful. Don't waste your time or money, and either study somewhere else, or invest that money into self-directed resources.
For the love of Mike, don't enroll at Becker and expect to come out a game artist. Please.
SSo what? Most people that enter the industry are somewhere in their mid-20s anyway. If someone has passion for the subject, is skilled, and is willing to work the needed number of hours, I see no problem.
So did I at 25. Dude's 25 now. He said he's into a 3 yr program for games. Which game program guarantees a job after grad that doesn't count getting a part-time at Starbucks? Let's factor in game studio history of layoffs. How long do you want to stay or get paid at jr. level? Is OP going to a free/subsidized Euro school? Maybe OP is rich or his/her family so...if that's the case just ignore my concerns.
If you loaned up...it's crazy man! :poly124: If money's tight like I say, self teach and get a jr. role BEFORE you're 28-29. (This is also assuming you just want to rely on studio jobs as opposed to being freelancer.) You hit your 30s, ideally you'll just apply for Sr. roles with no student loans to worry about.
But if you're rich...game school is probably not bad enviro to delay getting into the workforce.
maybe Im coming from the middle of no where for a bunch of you, because A. you assume Im good lol and B. you assume Ive been here for a while.
Background for me:
I work in an industrial field for 5 years and a group home taking care of mentally impaired patients for 3 years. I have not ever worked or done anything for games aside from some fun "modeling" and "mapping" I did for battlefield 1942 when it came out (2003?) I played around with 3ds max and gmax and all the BF1942 modding tools and sucked at it, but I kept trying to learn. After graduating highschool in 2006 I had no intentions of going to college. Last year I picked up modelling again, did some tutorials here and there and developed a passion for it.
Time to do something I ENJOY and LOVE doing as opposed to working for something I hate
Still, not knowing HOW exactly to get my foot in the door as I know of ZERO studios around here. Not to mention I am the ONLY person I know in my town that does any modeling/modding of any sort. So in MY EYES the only option for me is to enroll in a school, learn something new, meet people (classmates, professors) and take what I learn in school and utilize it at home. It will keep me focused, motivated and in my eyes on the right path. ...or so I thought. So I guess Im stuck in manufacturing? lol
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start
You're misunderstanding. You know Greg Capullo? Great comic artist who draws Batman now. Dude's didn't start in his industry til he was in his late 20s. He's mostly self-thought too. Kevin Smith's podcast where he's guest I highly recommend. Capullos's in his 60s now and he's still kicking ass as an artist.
I'm not discouraging guys to follow their dreams. You asked for to advice I'm giving my best honest advice. There's a faster and cheaper way besides an expensive program. Might be too fasttrack for your taste but I've read horror stories regarding for-profit schools. If you're going to take that long or spend what I think you're going to spend to fund it it's a better investment in my opinion if it's a school that focusses more on traditional art and fundamentals - the kind of learning you don't need to upgrade year after year.
How bout this. Can you share the name or program website of your school of choice and how much it cost. Then run a polycount poll to find out if it's thumbs up or down.
If you're already enroled you can probably just drop out if you find out firsthand that it's a joke program.
[quote=tonyd927;1872135Still, not knowing HOW exactly to get my foot in the door as I know of ZERO studios around here. Not to mention I am the ONLY person I know in my town that does any modeling/modding of any sort. So in MY EYES the only option for me is to enroll in a school, learn something new, meet people (classmates, professors) and take what I learn in school and utilize it at home. It will keep me focused, motivated and in my eyes on the right path. ...or so I thought. So I guess Im stuck in manufacturing? lol[/QUOTE]
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start[/quote]
Just this once, I'm going to indulge you. So, if you're not already paying attention, here it is:
THE ONLY PERSON STOPPING YOU IS YOURSELF.
So you've worked a job you hate for a few years. Join the club. During the past eight years I've spent learning 3D in my spare time, I've gone through at least five "careers" in advertising, publishing, sales and writing, and somewhere in there, I found time to get married and subsequently divorced.
I'm older than you, but that doesn't mean I'm at either an advantage or disadvantage. I have plenty of unrelated work experience, but that won't stop me from achieving my goal. Notice a pattern?
We all have doubts, especially when we're first starting out. Many of us think "How the hell can I compete with those other artists?" The good news? You don't have to - at least, not right away.
In the spirit of Dr. Dr. Strangelove, stop worrying and love the bomb - the bomb being an insurmountable desire to actually succeed and make it in the industry. Because if you lack this passion, you'll be just another demo reel / resume glanced over by a hiring manager.
Stop making excuses, and start making art. Who gives a fuck who old you are?
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start
Just this once, I'm going to indulge you. So, if you're not already paying attention, here it is:
THE ONLY PERSON STOPPING YOU IS YOURSELF.
So you've worked a job you hate for a few years. Join the club. During the past eight years I've spent learning 3D in my spare time, I've gone through at least five "careers" in advertising, publishing, sales and writing, and somewhere in there, I found time to get married and subsequently divorced.
I'm older than you, but that doesn't mean I'm at either an advantage or disadvantage. I have plenty of unrelated work experience, but that won't stop me from achieving my goal. Notice a pattern?
We all have doubts, especially when we're first starting out. Many of us think "How the hell can I compete with those other artists?" The good news? You don't have to - at least, not right away.
In the spirit of Dr. Dr. Strangelove, stop worrying and love the bomb - the bomb being an insurmountable desire to actually succeed and make it in the industry. Because if you lack this passion, you'll be just another demo reel / resume glanced over by a hiring manager.
Stop making excuses, and start making art. Who gives a fuck who old you are?[/QUOTE]
thanks!
Glad someone understands where Im coming from
You're already at school, the internet. Save your money, put your stuff up here for feedback and spend all of your free time working on your things and eventual portfolio. You just got to put in a lot of practice, if you love doing this then it's the best you can do to your self.
And it can't be stressed enough how many possibilities the internet provides. Even if you're at the middle of nowhere you can still join competitions or even a game project (modding games should be a great start) and get yourself exposed that way. Don't worry about getting the foot in the door part. Get the skills first then the rest sort of follows naturally.
Be clever, do the best of what means you have, and those means might have greater potential than you realize.
EDIT: Aaand danshewan hit the nail on the head. Listen to him.
it's gonna be interesting telling everyone my reasoning for leaving a university "some dudes on the internet said it would work" :P lol
Here is an even worse scenario: Having to pay off 100k in college debt after graduating with a portfolio that may or may not be adequate in a state where the nearest studio job requires you to relocate.
I've see people who gave up on their dream of being in the game industry because they were told by family that they were "Too old" at 24. I have also seen a grown married man in his early thirties graduate school and find a job in the industry. Age isn't a factor. It comes down to the individual.
I recommend spending a year on your own bettering yourself, improving your skills. See if you still feel the need to go to school after that.
1. education means nothing
2. Im going the complete wrong direction on a one way road for me
3. unless I strike oil somewhere, Im going no where in this field.
3. unless I strike oil somewhere, Im going no where in this field.
Not true, you just have to buckle down and study hard on your own. Just like any other discipline, art is a skill that takes time to develop. You think that da Vinci and Picasso got lucky? No they worked their asses off to become the amazing artists they are known to be today. Thats why I don't believe art is a 'talent' that comes naturally to people who struck the art lottery, as if people don't have to work hard.
1. education means nothing
2. Im going the complete wrong direction on a one way road for me
3. unless I strike oil somewhere, Im going no where in this field.
1. I don't think education is worthless, at least it wasn't for me. I learned a ton, both about the subject matter at hand and about working with other people in live projects. I even got the opportunity to have one of the projects I worked on in school published as a Playstation Mini, which was awesome for both personal and professional reasons.
Attending a university also remarkably improved my life and social skills, as it forced me to move, alone, a long way from home to a town where I knew no one. And during the two years of school I met so many wonderful people who shared the same passion as I did.
So for me school was an awesome experience and I learned so much, but for me the education was free as I live in Sweden, so I can't put my self in your position living in the US, where education seem to cost more than both your legs.
2 & 3. As long as you work hard and strive to get better at what you love doing you are not doing anything wrong. The only way you are getting that job you dream about is to work your ass off, whether it be at home or in school.
I just want to add to this with my experience at uni, sorry if i repeated anyone else, I didn't read everything...
I started learning a little bit before I went, and the course was aimed at beginners. All they taught was how to use software. But even though uni didn't provide much in the form of education though, it did provide a load of other stuff....
It provided me with 3 straight years to improve my art skills, 3 years to learn without any distraction of school/jobs (I had a student loan). It also dumps you with a load of like minded people; everyones trying to learn, people start to help each other and everyone grows and motivates each other. Also, networking... the students you learn with may end up helping each other out when it comes to finding jobs, teachers might have been in the industry before and have other contacts, etc. And with my uni in particular, it hosted Animex where people from industry came to do talks, and you could talk personally and drink with them at some after parties. And to top it all off, my uni had bad ass computers, that could be all be used for a render farm and everything, a mocap thing and some other things that you could freely use.
A lot of the people that started learning at uni, didn't get good enough for a job straight after, but I know some people that did, and some people also got internships... But I'm sure those are the kinda people that went through the effort to train themselves and practice as much as they can and would have got to the same level of skill on their own anyway. TBH, I think it takes a certain kinda attitude, if you want to learn fast.
Basically, the best education you can get will most definitely be on the internet and through practice. Thats where I found it anyway, not at uni... but there are other things you can find at uni such as TIME, motivation, contacts and badass hardware.
People say the degree itself doesn't seem to matter to most people, but I have seen some job ads that said a degree is a plus. So by the time you finish, it might be more accepted. (job ads such as this: http://jobs.zenimax.com/requisitions/view/71)
Edit: not sure how much this costs in america though, I heard it was ridiculous, so I dno. But this is what I got from it anyway. Oh yeah, a degree is meant to help a little bit with getting a visa if you ever wanted to work abroad.
Another edit!!!: I also got access to their library where I got anatomy books that would have cost me like 70+ quid.
I just want to add to this with my experience at uni, sorry if i repeated anyone else, I didn't read everything...
I started learning a little bit before I went, and the course was aimed at beginners. All they taught was how to use software. But even though uni didn't provide much in the form of education though, it did provide a load of other stuff....
It provided me with 3 straight years to improve my art skills, 3 years to learn without any distraction of school/jobs (I had a student loan). It also dumps you with a load of like minded people; everyones trying to learn, people start to help each other and everyone grows and motivates each other. Also, networking... the students you learn with may end up helping each other out when it comes to finding jobs, teachers might have been in the industry before and have other contacts, etc. And with my uni in particular, it hosted Animex where people from industry came to do talks, and you could talk personally and drink with them at some after parties. And to top it all off, my uni had bad ass computers, that could be all be used for a render farm and everything, a mocap thing and some other things that you could freely use.
A lot of the people that started learning at uni, didn't get good enough for a job straight after, but I know some people that did, and some people also got internships... But I'm sure those are the kinda people that went through the effort to train themselves and practice as much as they can and would have got to the same level of skill on their own anyway. TBH, I think it takes a certain kinda attitude, if you want to learn fast.
Basically, the best education you can get will most definitely be on the internet and through practice. Thats where I found it anyway, not at uni... but there are other things you can find at uni such as TIME, motivation, contacts and badass hardware.
People say the degree itself doesn't seem to matter to most people, but I have seen some job ads that said a degree is a plus. So by the time you finish, it might be more accepted. (job ads such as this: http://jobs.zenimax.com/requisitions/view/71)
Edit: not sure how much this costs in america though, I heard it was ridiculous, so I dno. But this is what I got from it anyway. Oh yeah, a degree is meant to help a little bit with getting a visa if you ever wanted to work abroad.
Another edit!!!: I also got access to their library where I got anatomy books that would have cost me like 70+ quid.
awesome!! thanks man!
Yes college is expensive, but it's America. What is cheap in America besides a double cheeseburger?
the entire country is in debt to student loans/ other financial obligations.
'Murica
the school Im going to has direct connections to PAX east (student work showcases there, student game/portfolio demos there) and a building funded by microsoft houses MassDIGI, a collaboration of digital artists in multitudes of fields to meet under one roof (kind of like a smaller version of PAX for everyone to showcase and get critiqued on their work)
Not to mention sweet computers and labs, mocap labs, art studios an excellent cafeteria :thumbup:
awesome!! thanks man!
Yes college is expensive, but it's America. What is cheap in America besides a double cheeseburger?
the entire country is in debt to student loans/ other financial obligations.
'Murica
Thats still no reason to get into assloads of debt. Brwnbread's opinion was skewed because he's from Europe where schooling is free so it doesn't matter if you don't do shit in school there.
Obviously everyone posting in this thread isn't trying to make the decision for you but do some research, ask around other forums and stuff and you'll hear the same thing.
Thats still no reason to get into assloads of debt. Brwnbread's opinion was skewed because he's from Europe where schooling is free so it doesn't matter if you don't do shit in school there.
Obviously everyone posting in this thread isn't trying to make the decision for you but do some research, ask around other forums and stuff and you'll hear the same thing.
Haha, it wasn't free, I am in debt but I don't have to pay till I have an income anyway, but it was significantly cheaper than america. I did mention that though lol. But yeah, its not really the same situation, but I thought it was worth bringing up because those 3 distractionless years were very valuable to me at least.
Thats still no reason to get into assloads of debt. Brwnbread's opinion was skewed because he's from Europe where schooling is free so it doesn't matter if you don't do shit in school there.
Obviously everyone posting in this thread isn't trying to make the decision for you but do some research, ask around other forums and stuff and you'll hear the same thing.
so you think Ill be going to school to not do shit? LOL
If im gonna be in an "assload" of debt, Im gonna be working my ass off where ever I can.
Idk where youre from but in America unemployment is over 9% and people with bachelor's degrees have a 92% chance of employment. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
Not to mention in america as of 2012 a person with just a highschool deploma will earn (on average) $400 LESS a week than someone with a bachelors
so you think Ill be going to school to not do shit? LOL
If im gonna be in an "assload" of debt, Im gonna be working my ass off where ever I can.
Well then thats a great mentality to have then. Far too students feel that way in school. We are merely suggesting cheaper alternatives to school. And art majors actually face some of the highest unemployment in the country with around 12% One of few fields that having a degree may hinder right out of the gate
I'm relating to you because I'm an art school graduate and very few of my friends have jobs in the field. I'm lucky to have a job in a studio because there are a lot of talented unemployed artists. While some didn't apply themselves as much as they should have, its still hard to find a job.
Ultimately its your decision, and more power to you if you decide to pursue schooling.
Well I got some good news. Since I went to a community college 100% of my credits transferred over to uni so I will only need 63 more credits to graduate (21 courses) So the program is now only a year and a half long for me. Much better and cheaper than the 3 years and a half years originally planned.
Plus I got kickass scholarships so Im going for close to free.
The real issue is that most schools' will not prepare you with everything you need to know to get into the industry. There are no clear standards for curriculum in regards to creating game art, so that is another issue.
Basically, most of the stuff you'll need to know... you won't be learning in the classroom.
The real issue is that most schools' will not prepare you with everything you need to know to get into the industry. There are no clear standards for curriculum in regards to creating game art, so that is another issue.
Basically, most of the stuff you'll need to know... you won't be learning in the classroom.
This is obvious, just as highschool didnt prepare us for much either lol
tutorials on the internet are sometimes so vast and spread out and some teach different things, it's almost overwhelming lol
Wow.... Im a little shocked at all the hate about age... Seriously, DON'T listen to anyone who tells you you are too old to do something. 25 is NOT old when it comes to getting started. Anyone who is telling you differently doesn't know what the F they are talking about. Follow your dreams dude. Who gives a shit about age.
I didn't get into the industry until my late 20's and I've done programming, level design and am now doing art. I'm 43 now and still going strong. Fuck the haters.
This goes double for that little voice inside your head that says you can't or that you're too old. Tell him to pitch in or shut the fuck up because he isn't doing you any favors.
It doesn't matter when you start only that you start and keep moving forward.
when i was at uni the people who got the most out of it were the mature students, the young-uns like me :-) took it as an excuse to grow up and discover themselves, the older students had already done that to an extent and generally made better use of their time and were much more motivated with their work. be prepared to work that little bit harder than your classmates as they will have messing around time after and im sure you will be fine
This thread seems pretty old, but I wanted to post my own question here. I am a high school student and wanting to become a 3D artist. I have thought about everything you guys have said but I just wantd to see what people thought about Gnomon school. I plan on going there for college for the three year program. I am willing to work hard and find information on my own outside of class. I just feel like going to this school would be much better than teaching myself.
Replies
I think that Maya is starting to be used more now a-days but you can't go wrong with being good in both, (I personally use 3ds Max) I'd choose whatever is best for you, if you learn one you can jump to another easier anyways.
You should check out this sticky http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108342 you can get some great information on here.
My view about degrees is if you can afford it go for it but in all honesty for game art I wouldn't do it... I would get a degree in something else, something to fall back on just in case.
Here is a good blog post by Noah Bradley: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/138c5efd45e9
If you are willing to learn by yourself through internet communities and tutorials, you will probably learn faster, better workflows while spending a lot less. And the good thing is that you can do that even from the middle of nowhere
I thought college was a good thing? lol
It's going to take time. Nobody is a great artist right when starting out.
Most art schools are not very good, and will load you up with as much as 100k of student debt and won't make you employable upon graduation. I look through portfolios and resumes constantly and make hiring\contracting decisions based on that, and in my experience, maybe 1 art school graduate in 100 is even barely employable at a junior level. Most grads need an additional year or two of work because the curriculum and the teachers are almost universally inadequate.
There was a blog post\rant that went around last week called "Don't Go To Art School." It was one-sided and a bit ranty, but he has an EXCELLENT list of alternate resources you can use to educate yourself for cheap to free, and you can find that list here: https://medium.com/i-m-h-o/138c5efd45e9
Really think about it before you fall into student debt. You have all the resources you need right in front of you. It really boils down to you as an individual.
Listen to the guys on this thread. They all have great advice.
- D. Carmine
25 and gonna take 3 yr program, so you'll be close to turning 30 and apply for an ENTRY LEVEL position???
My opinion for your age group is the self-study path. If you can't learn from a $35, $15, $6 or free video tutorial, a career as a game artist is probably not optimal for you. I don't mean to insult. Think about it, it's a tech heavy industry. Techniques and tools update all the time. Learning doesn't stop even after you're hired. You can install free edu versions of industry tools from Autodesk and you don't even need to be in a school (pick the "homeschool" option).
Maybe your plan is to use part of the loan (I'm assuming you'll get loans) to enable you to move. Okay, maybe I can respect that. But if you're looking at it as a guaranteed ticket to a career, re-think before signing any loan doc.
Good luck.
Awesome. So entry level isnt happening for me. Thanks for the advice. lol.
@Jon Jones .. Im looking at Becker College in Worcester massachussets.
Go buy some tutorials from EAT3D and you'll get a better education then 90% of the schools out there that teach such subjects anyway.
So what? Most people that enter the industry are somewhere in their mid-20s anyway. If someone has passion for the subject, is skilled, and is willing to work the needed number of hours, I see no problem.
To be perfectly honest, I almost replied to MagicSugar about that comment, but decided against it.
There's a lot of perceived ageism in this industry. However, this isn't usually down to a numerical factor e.g. you're 28, so there's no way you could possibly handle the duties of an entry-level artist.
When most people talk about older people entering games as a profession, they're usually coming at it from the fact that the older someone is, their priorities are likely to change. By this age, you're less likely to want to sleep under a desk and work for terrible wages. You might have a spouse or fiancee, or children, or any number of other things that might interfere with the fact you may have to relocate every 18 months to 2 years to find work.
However, it's certainly nothing to do with talent. If your portfolio is awesome, and you can work well with others and aren't a prima dona, you're still in with a chance, just as much as a younger guy.
I actually had a conversation about this very topic earlier on this evening with my fiancee. I just turned 31, and have the same "am I too old" doubts as everyone else. After hearing her say that I should work on my portfolio and stop worrying about moving us around every 2 years, I feel much better.
In response to this? Just don't. Becker has some great programs (nursing, veterinary tech etc.), but their graphics programs are terrible. My ex-wife went to Becker, and while some of the staff there were awesome in a personal, supportive sense, the actual curricula of their "graphics" majors was pitiful. Don't waste your time or money, and either study somewhere else, or invest that money into self-directed resources.
For the love of Mike, don't enroll at Becker and expect to come out a game artist. Please.
So did I at 25. Dude's 25 now. He said he's into a 3 yr program for games. Which game program guarantees a job after grad that doesn't count getting a part-time at Starbucks? Let's factor in game studio history of layoffs. How long do you want to stay or get paid at jr. level? Is OP going to a free/subsidized Euro school? Maybe OP is rich or his/her family so...if that's the case just ignore my concerns.
If you loaned up...it's crazy man! :poly124: If money's tight like I say, self teach and get a jr. role BEFORE you're 28-29. (This is also assuming you just want to rely on studio jobs as opposed to being freelancer.) You hit your 30s, ideally you'll just apply for Sr. roles with no student loans to worry about.
But if you're rich...game school is probably not bad enviro to delay getting into the workforce.
Background for me:
I work in an industrial field for 5 years and a group home taking care of mentally impaired patients for 3 years. I have not ever worked or done anything for games aside from some fun "modeling" and "mapping" I did for battlefield 1942 when it came out (2003?) I played around with 3ds max and gmax and all the BF1942 modding tools and sucked at it, but I kept trying to learn. After graduating highschool in 2006 I had no intentions of going to college. Last year I picked up modelling again, did some tutorials here and there and developed a passion for it.
Time to do something I ENJOY and LOVE doing as opposed to working for something I hate
Still, not knowing HOW exactly to get my foot in the door as I know of ZERO studios around here. Not to mention I am the ONLY person I know in my town that does any modeling/modding of any sort. So in MY EYES the only option for me is to enroll in a school, learn something new, meet people (classmates, professors) and take what I learn in school and utilize it at home. It will keep me focused, motivated and in my eyes on the right path. ...or so I thought. So I guess Im stuck in manufacturing? lol
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start
You're misunderstanding. You know Greg Capullo? Great comic artist who draws Batman now. Dude's didn't start in his industry til he was in his late 20s. He's mostly self-thought too. Kevin Smith's podcast where he's guest I highly recommend. Capullos's in his 60s now and he's still kicking ass as an artist.
I'm not discouraging guys to follow their dreams. You asked for to advice I'm giving my best honest advice. There's a faster and cheaper way besides an expensive program. Might be too fasttrack for your taste but I've read horror stories regarding for-profit schools. If you're going to take that long or spend what I think you're going to spend to fund it it's a better investment in my opinion if it's a school that focusses more on traditional art and fundamentals - the kind of learning you don't need to upgrade year after year.
How bout this. Can you share the name or program website of your school of choice and how much it cost. Then run a polycount poll to find out if it's thumbs up or down.
If you're already enroled you can probably just drop out if you find out firsthand that it's a joke program.
as MagicSugar stated, I guess 25 is a little late to start[/quote]
Just this once, I'm going to indulge you. So, if you're not already paying attention, here it is:
THE ONLY PERSON STOPPING YOU IS YOURSELF.
So you've worked a job you hate for a few years. Join the club. During the past eight years I've spent learning 3D in my spare time, I've gone through at least five "careers" in advertising, publishing, sales and writing, and somewhere in there, I found time to get married and subsequently divorced.
I'm older than you, but that doesn't mean I'm at either an advantage or disadvantage. I have plenty of unrelated work experience, but that won't stop me from achieving my goal. Notice a pattern?
We all have doubts, especially when we're first starting out. Many of us think "How the hell can I compete with those other artists?" The good news? You don't have to - at least, not right away.
In the spirit of Dr. Dr. Strangelove, stop worrying and love the bomb - the bomb being an insurmountable desire to actually succeed and make it in the industry. Because if you lack this passion, you'll be just another demo reel / resume glanced over by a hiring manager.
Stop making excuses, and start making art. Who gives a fuck who old you are?
Just this once, I'm going to indulge you. So, if you're not already paying attention, here it is:
THE ONLY PERSON STOPPING YOU IS YOURSELF.
So you've worked a job you hate for a few years. Join the club. During the past eight years I've spent learning 3D in my spare time, I've gone through at least five "careers" in advertising, publishing, sales and writing, and somewhere in there, I found time to get married and subsequently divorced.
I'm older than you, but that doesn't mean I'm at either an advantage or disadvantage. I have plenty of unrelated work experience, but that won't stop me from achieving my goal. Notice a pattern?
We all have doubts, especially when we're first starting out. Many of us think "How the hell can I compete with those other artists?" The good news? You don't have to - at least, not right away.
In the spirit of Dr. Dr. Strangelove, stop worrying and love the bomb - the bomb being an insurmountable desire to actually succeed and make it in the industry. Because if you lack this passion, you'll be just another demo reel / resume glanced over by a hiring manager.
Stop making excuses, and start making art. Who gives a fuck who old you are?[/QUOTE]
thanks!
Glad someone understands where Im coming from
And it can't be stressed enough how many possibilities the internet provides. Even if you're at the middle of nowhere you can still join competitions or even a game project (modding games should be a great start) and get yourself exposed that way. Don't worry about getting the foot in the door part. Get the skills first then the rest sort of follows naturally.
Be clever, do the best of what means you have, and those means might have greater potential than you realize.
EDIT: Aaand danshewan hit the nail on the head. Listen to him.
CrunchCast
jon jones "your portfolio repels jobs"
http://www.dota2.com/workshop/
"Snooze you lose"
cheers!:thumbup:
Here is an even worse scenario: Having to pay off 100k in college debt after graduating with a portfolio that may or may not be adequate in a state where the nearest studio job requires you to relocate.
I've see people who gave up on their dream of being in the game industry because they were told by family that they were "Too old" at 24. I have also seen a grown married man in his early thirties graduate school and find a job in the industry. Age isn't a factor. It comes down to the individual.
I recommend spending a year on your own bettering yourself, improving your skills. See if you still feel the need to go to school after that.
- D. Carmine
1. education means nothing
2. Im going the complete wrong direction on a one way road for me
3. unless I strike oil somewhere, Im going no where in this field.
Not true, you just have to buckle down and study hard on your own. Just like any other discipline, art is a skill that takes time to develop. You think that da Vinci and Picasso got lucky? No they worked their asses off to become the amazing artists they are known to be today. Thats why I don't believe art is a 'talent' that comes naturally to people who struck the art lottery, as if people don't have to work hard.
1. I don't think education is worthless, at least it wasn't for me. I learned a ton, both about the subject matter at hand and about working with other people in live projects. I even got the opportunity to have one of the projects I worked on in school published as a Playstation Mini, which was awesome for both personal and professional reasons.
Attending a university also remarkably improved my life and social skills, as it forced me to move, alone, a long way from home to a town where I knew no one. And during the two years of school I met so many wonderful people who shared the same passion as I did.
So for me school was an awesome experience and I learned so much, but for me the education was free as I live in Sweden, so I can't put my self in your position living in the US, where education seem to cost more than both your legs.
2 & 3. As long as you work hard and strive to get better at what you love doing you are not doing anything wrong. The only way you are getting that job you dream about is to work your ass off, whether it be at home or in school.
Good luck!
I started learning a little bit before I went, and the course was aimed at beginners. All they taught was how to use software. But even though uni didn't provide much in the form of education though, it did provide a load of other stuff....
It provided me with 3 straight years to improve my art skills, 3 years to learn without any distraction of school/jobs (I had a student loan). It also dumps you with a load of like minded people; everyones trying to learn, people start to help each other and everyone grows and motivates each other. Also, networking... the students you learn with may end up helping each other out when it comes to finding jobs, teachers might have been in the industry before and have other contacts, etc. And with my uni in particular, it hosted Animex where people from industry came to do talks, and you could talk personally and drink with them at some after parties. And to top it all off, my uni had bad ass computers, that could be all be used for a render farm and everything, a mocap thing and some other things that you could freely use.
A lot of the people that started learning at uni, didn't get good enough for a job straight after, but I know some people that did, and some people also got internships... But I'm sure those are the kinda people that went through the effort to train themselves and practice as much as they can and would have got to the same level of skill on their own anyway. TBH, I think it takes a certain kinda attitude, if you want to learn fast.
Basically, the best education you can get will most definitely be on the internet and through practice. Thats where I found it anyway, not at uni... but there are other things you can find at uni such as TIME, motivation, contacts and badass hardware.
People say the degree itself doesn't seem to matter to most people, but I have seen some job ads that said a degree is a plus. So by the time you finish, it might be more accepted. (job ads such as this: http://jobs.zenimax.com/requisitions/view/71)
Edit: not sure how much this costs in america though, I heard it was ridiculous, so I dno. But this is what I got from it anyway. Oh yeah, a degree is meant to help a little bit with getting a visa if you ever wanted to work abroad.
Another edit!!!: I also got access to their library where I got anatomy books that would have cost me like 70+ quid.
awesome!! thanks man!
Yes college is expensive, but it's America. What is cheap in America besides a double cheeseburger?
the entire country is in debt to student loans/ other financial obligations.
'Murica
the school Im going to has direct connections to PAX east (student work showcases there, student game/portfolio demos there) and a building funded by microsoft houses MassDIGI, a collaboration of digital artists in multitudes of fields to meet under one roof (kind of like a smaller version of PAX for everyone to showcase and get critiqued on their work)
Not to mention sweet computers and labs, mocap labs, art studios an excellent cafeteria
Thats still no reason to get into assloads of debt. Brwnbread's opinion was skewed because he's from Europe where schooling is free so it doesn't matter if you don't do shit in school there.
Obviously everyone posting in this thread isn't trying to make the decision for you but do some research, ask around other forums and stuff and you'll hear the same thing.
Haha, it wasn't free, I am in debt but I don't have to pay till I have an income anyway, but it was significantly cheaper than america. I did mention that though lol. But yeah, its not really the same situation, but I thought it was worth bringing up because those 3 distractionless years were very valuable to me at least.
so you think Ill be going to school to not do shit? LOL
If im gonna be in an "assload" of debt, Im gonna be working my ass off where ever I can.
Idk where youre from but in America unemployment is over 9% and people with bachelor's degrees have a 92% chance of employment. I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it
Not to mention in america as of 2012 a person with just a highschool deploma will earn (on average) $400 LESS a week than someone with a bachelors
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnebersole/2012/08/08/why-a-college-degree/
Well then thats a great mentality to have then. Far too students feel that way in school. We are merely suggesting cheaper alternatives to school. And art majors actually face some of the highest unemployment in the country with around 12% One of few fields that having a degree may hinder right out of the gate
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/05/15/10-college-majors-with-the-highest-unemployment-rates-infograph/
I'm relating to you because I'm an art school graduate and very few of my friends have jobs in the field. I'm lucky to have a job in a studio because there are a lot of talented unemployed artists. While some didn't apply themselves as much as they should have, its still hard to find a job.
Ultimately its your decision, and more power to you if you decide to pursue schooling.
Yeah, Im not sure that counts with art degrees lol
Plus I got kickass scholarships so Im going for close to free.
Basically, most of the stuff you'll need to know... you won't be learning in the classroom.
This is obvious, just as highschool didnt prepare us for much either lol
tutorials on the internet are sometimes so vast and spread out and some teach different things, it's almost overwhelming lol
that's across the country, why spend money I wont have when I can go here for free?
It doesn't matter when you start only that you start and keep moving forward.
I really was worried for a second there that I was a late bloomer
Thank you for the encouragement!