Lots of jealousy and class warfare bullshit in that article.
I drive a Jeep that's been totaled twice and has close to a quarter million miles in a quarter century. I bust my ass for what I have and most of "what I have" goes to my wife and son. I don't take too kindly to some jackass telling me that after all that hard work I've been too successful and should be taken down a notch.
Whoever wrote that should be embarrassed and possibly pelted with a rotten tomato or two.
sounds like someone is jealous and wants to be a game developer but has shit for skills to be one...
anyways on a serious note, this guy should be banned from purchasing any video games ever. he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
if a game company makes lot of many selling a game then where should the revenue go ? to the developers i would hope and not mostly to the CEO or just hoarding in some corporate bank account.
also i sense he is trying to race to the bottom instead of asking why some of the other salaries like that of a teacher or a cop isnt higher and rather asking why game devs make what they already deserve.
As soon as I saw it was an article on Examiner.com, I couldn't help but roll my eyes. It was almost inevitably going to be a train wreck of an article.
A majority of their "writers" are freelance hacks with very little (if any) actual journalism experience (or much writing experience in general), and the quality of the site's content is mediocre at best - and that's being generous. I write for a living, and several people I know worked for Examiner before coming to us, and it's just a relentless series of horror stories.
True, it sucks that it perpetuates a number of falsehoods about working as a game dev, but I wouldn't take it too seriously.
However, this did make me really, really angry:
...the majority of game developers also receive a myriad of fringe benefits including stock options, annual bonuses, project bonuses, royalties for games they have worked on, medical benefits, dental coverage, and even pension plans.
Heaven fucking forbid skilled, talented professionals should be able to visit the doctor if they get sick, get their teeth fixed or - gasp - put a little away for retirement. Those entitled assholes.
Whatever. The person who wrote it probably earned the grand sum of around $12 for that article, so it's easy to see why a bitter, jaded hack would be jealous about conditions in just about any industry that pays more than freelance "writing."
That article is very out-of-touch with the realities of the game industry, or the current competition that drives it. It also conspicuously overlooks the fact that the game industry employs a lot of technical experts who have a great deal of specialized knowledge and skills, assets that regularly command even higher salaries in other industries.
They also don't seem to be capable of properly differentiating between publishers and developers. There is a token nod to how hard game developers work, and then an obvious assumption that working on games is "fun."
People are not motivated by the "fun" of working on games. They do it because they love the work, not because they are sitting around with controllers in their hands "tweaking the level." And it is becoming more and more common for the industry to hemorrhage talent because of the lackluster working conditions, as well as the opportunities in other industries that pay better.
The owners of studios and stockholders for investment start-ups might be driving around in 70,000 luxury cars. But the average game development grunt in the trenches does not get it that cushy.
The article also conspicuously ignores geographic considerations. 80K annual is not that big of a deal for someone living in urban LA, San Francisco, or Seattle. (three of the biggest concentrations of game development studios in the U.S.)
Damn you 3d artists, always living the luxurious rich life, and always having such nice kickass houses.. Like, who is this mentalray guy, who own like a shit ton of them!
He does realize that the grubberment controls the wages of CIA, Police, and teachers.... right? He has a degree in Criminology, you'd think he'd be able to figure that much out.
Guess not!
Hey guess what buddy, people that start their own businesses and do well tend to make millions!
PEOPLE THAT AREN'T ME MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY I REGRET EVERYTHING
As soon as I saw it was an article on Examiner.com, I couldn't help but roll my eyes. It was almost inevitably going to be a train wreck of an article.
A majority of their "writers" are freelance hacks with very little (if any) actual journalism experience (or much writing experience in general), and the quality of the site's content is mediocre at best - and that's being generous. I write for a living, and several people I know worked for Examiner before coming to us, and it's just a relentless series of horror stories.
True, it sucks that it perpetuates a number of falsehoods about working as a game dev, but I wouldn't take it too seriously.
However, this did make me really, really angry:
Heaven fucking forbid skilled, talented professionals should be able to visit the doctor if they get sick, get their teeth fixed or - gasp - put a little away for retirement. Those entitled assholes.
Whatever. The person who wrote it probably earned the grand sum of around $12 for that article, so it's easy to see why a bitter, jaded hack would be jealous about conditions in just about any industry that pays more than freelance "writing."
I have to agree with you, journalism stopped being about stories and started being about gossip on who has the privilege to feel the most offended about something and how much they can shout to make a buck or two from an article, really disgusting stuff.
Also, it's pretty obvious the writer has no idea what they're talking about. 70K isn't alot of money when the median for many well off people is around 40K in 2013 (taxes, blah blah blah, not included in the math), especially city slickers, you will hardly see many Dev's working OR can work for 20-30K in the countryside.
Plus, just like in ANY OTHER COMPANY AND INDUSTRY, different people in different position's will get payed differently, there are plenty of big name Dev's which are pillocks and I don't think they need to get anymore then an average salary, but that's hardly the standard for everyone working on the project. You average artist won't be getting payed the same as the idiot head honcho.
Seriously, people like Alexndre Hicky are the type of people who most likely also complains about the price of gold and says it has no industrial application, forgetting all of our digital stuff has gold in it.
Could we also please quote the entire article in the original post? So we don't give the page any hits?
He lists an article about Programmers as his source for income.
Instead of getting all over him, maybe it would be better to write him a respectful letter explaining what he is presented with (the glory and money) only goes to a select few while the rest try to survive between jobs.
So not only is he getting into Trademark issues with his imagery, I can't figure out how it even works. The closest I can see is its possibly text based?
He lists an article about Programmers as his source for income.
Instead of getting all over him, maybe it would be better to write him a respectful letter explaining what he is presented with (the glory and money) only goes to a select few while the rest try to survive between jobs.
If Activision is anything like Riot Games, then according to the tweets of at least one very happy girlfriend, it goes towards buying sports cars, fine dining, and expensive jewelry.
He has some kind of ongoing vendetta against Riot Games.
That's cute.
When I'm good enough to land a job as an environment artist I'll be taking a significant pay cut but I will be doing work that is fulfilling.
Your first reaction might be something along the lines of "well if the game is really good, they deserve to be paid well for working on it," and that is a valid line of thought until you consider that these costs are then unnecessarily passed onto the consumer.
I think he confused game developers with the first generation 'strike-it-rich' guys like Cliffy et al (id's top brass would fit the bill too). Not that I'd expect any research from him, but not everyone owns the companies they work for. Long hours, shit pay for positions other industries would paying for through the nose seem to be the norm.
I wish I could afford a $70,000 sports car... May be he forgot to ask the women if she put it on her credit card. Also only 50% the cost of a game goes on its development. The rest typically goes on marketing.
The only thing I can really agree with from that article is that more often than not developers around the world piss money down the drain because of bad decisions or sloppy management. But then again there are also a lot of developers that get it right, so if you snooze you lose.
Man....even if you do agree with this guy, one would wonder, why should game dev field be the only exception here?
You would have to say the same for lawyers, politicans, bankers, all sorts of economists, you name it.
The last time i checked, it's not just game devs who drive fancy cars.......
And i dunno, but numbers seems a little off....average studio...2000 people, and EVERYONE having 81k per year? I mean, if you already making article like that, you don't just pull number out of your rear just like that.
Atlest to proper study what average studio size actually is and what is average salary in this a. studio.....
This guy make it sound like every guy who works as game developer, drivers 70k car....
Although he does have a bit of a point, games are actually getting very expensive....
In my country, iirc, average salary (not game dev, in general) is around 900€, and if game is 60€, you can imagen that's quite a bit.....
So many people just talking about "well we work hard" you actually make even close to that amount? I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world and i don't even make 1/3 of that, without bonuses or any perks and unpaid overtime
A wonderfully comprehensive, delightfully eloquent beat-down. The only problem is that a rag like Examiner.com probably won't take any action, as despite how woefully pathetic this article is, it's at least generating pageviews - and that's all that matters to them.
Still, it's nice to see such drivel being roundly denounced by fans and devs alike. Thanks for posting that rebuttal, Warren.
"Why are developers making so much money? It might be tedious or even grueling at times and require long hours and lots of commitment, but working in the video game industry is generally fun. People should be working in the gaming industry because they want to create awesome games. Not because they want to become rich. When did the gaming industry become so corporate?"
Wow. Yes, allow me to work for free. I'm just happy making my art. I don't require things like income.
Didn't have time to read it all, I mean, I've got several pleasure slaves vying for my attention, all while trying to drive my new Bugatti Veyron. I assume he's correct, as I have no idea what to do with the bags full of cash I've got in the trunk.
Dunno man, i buy sports cars, drive them 10km max then throw some grenades at them. Ring my manslave to helicopter me another to my location, and rinse / repeat wherever I may roam. Pimpin.
Alex Hinkley - I don't even have the power to delete comments nor would I want to. I always encourage disagreement. Thanks for taking the time to reply.As your first two points are your own opinion I can't really argue with them. Your third, that many studios do not employees thousands, is not correct. I cited this reference in the article. Apparently you decided to reply without reading the full article since you claimed I "pulled these numbers from my rectum." Or perhaps you just missed the citation?
I am not sure you know what an average salary means. Let's say there are 100 employees who earn an average salary of 100,000. Does that mean all of them make 100,000? No. Maybe some make double that, maybe some make half that. If the company paid 10,000,000 in total salaries to 100 employees, then the average salary would be 100,000 per person.
I could continue to rebut your arguments point by point but then you began to devolve into making arguments without evidence and arguing against things I never even said so, I'll stop here.
Replies
I drive a Jeep that's been totaled twice and has close to a quarter million miles in a quarter century. I bust my ass for what I have and most of "what I have" goes to my wife and son. I don't take too kindly to some jackass telling me that after all that hard work I've been too successful and should be taken down a notch.
Whoever wrote that should be embarrassed and possibly pelted with a rotten tomato or two.
You have too much and that makes somebody who hasn't worked as hard get hurt feelings, hand over your stuff.
anyways on a serious note, this guy should be banned from purchasing any video games ever. he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.
if a game company makes lot of many selling a game then where should the revenue go ? to the developers i would hope and not mostly to the CEO or just hoarding in some corporate bank account.
also i sense he is trying to race to the bottom instead of asking why some of the other salaries like that of a teacher or a cop isnt higher and rather asking why game devs make what they already deserve.
A majority of their "writers" are freelance hacks with very little (if any) actual journalism experience (or much writing experience in general), and the quality of the site's content is mediocre at best - and that's being generous. I write for a living, and several people I know worked for Examiner before coming to us, and it's just a relentless series of horror stories.
True, it sucks that it perpetuates a number of falsehoods about working as a game dev, but I wouldn't take it too seriously.
However, this did make me really, really angry:
Heaven fucking forbid skilled, talented professionals should be able to visit the doctor if they get sick, get their teeth fixed or - gasp - put a little away for retirement. Those entitled assholes.
Whatever. The person who wrote it probably earned the grand sum of around $12 for that article, so it's easy to see why a bitter, jaded hack would be jealous about conditions in just about any industry that pays more than freelance "writing."
They also don't seem to be capable of properly differentiating between publishers and developers. There is a token nod to how hard game developers work, and then an obvious assumption that working on games is "fun."
People are not motivated by the "fun" of working on games. They do it because they love the work, not because they are sitting around with controllers in their hands "tweaking the level." And it is becoming more and more common for the industry to hemorrhage talent because of the lackluster working conditions, as well as the opportunities in other industries that pay better.
The owners of studios and stockholders for investment start-ups might be driving around in 70,000 luxury cars. But the average game development grunt in the trenches does not get it that cushy.
The article also conspicuously ignores geographic considerations. 80K annual is not that big of a deal for someone living in urban LA, San Francisco, or Seattle. (three of the biggest concentrations of game development studios in the U.S.)
Fixed that up for ya. :poly121:
However, the Marxist ideology does not include falsifying facts to make up for one's lack of self worth.
Guess not!
Hey guess what buddy, people that start their own businesses and do well tend to make millions!
PEOPLE THAT AREN'T ME MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY I REGRET EVERYTHING
Thanks for the link, gave me a laugh
Also, it's pretty obvious the writer has no idea what they're talking about. 70K isn't alot of money when the median for many well off people is around 40K in 2013 (taxes, blah blah blah, not included in the math), especially city slickers, you will hardly see many Dev's working OR can work for 20-30K in the countryside.
Plus, just like in ANY OTHER COMPANY AND INDUSTRY, different people in different position's will get payed differently, there are plenty of big name Dev's which are pillocks and I don't think they need to get anymore then an average salary, but that's hardly the standard for everyone working on the project. You average artist won't be getting payed the same as the idiot head honcho.
Seriously, people like Alexndre Hicky are the type of people who most likely also complains about the price of gold and says it has no industrial application, forgetting all of our digital stuff has gold in it.
Could we also please quote the entire article in the original post? So we don't give the page any hits?
Instead of getting all over him, maybe it would be better to write him a respectful letter explaining what he is presented with (the glory and money) only goes to a select few while the rest try to survive between jobs.
BTW Here is his company.
http://www.penguinrungames.com/
http://alexsdbzrpg.com
So not only is he getting into Trademark issues with his imagery, I can't figure out how it even works. The closest I can see is its possibly text based?
Hmmmm:
He has some kind of ongoing vendetta against Riot Games.
Examples:
http://penguinrungames.com/riotlied.php
http://www.penguinrungames.com/riotgameshacker.php
http://www.penguinrungames.com/riotgameshacker2.php
Here's the contact for Examiner.com. Let them know what you think about the article: contactus@examiner.com
When I'm good enough to land a job as an environment artist I'll be taking a significant pay cut but I will be doing work that is fulfilling.
The only thing I can really agree with from that article is that more often than not developers around the world piss money down the drain because of bad decisions or sloppy management. But then again there are also a lot of developers that get it right, so if you snooze you lose.
You would have to say the same for lawyers, politicans, bankers, all sorts of economists, you name it.
The last time i checked, it's not just game devs who drive fancy cars.......
And i dunno, but numbers seems a little off....average studio...2000 people, and EVERYONE having 81k per year? I mean, if you already making article like that, you don't just pull number out of your rear just like that.
Atlest to proper study what average studio size actually is and what is average salary in this a. studio.....
This guy make it sound like every guy who works as game developer, drivers 70k car....
Although he does have a bit of a point, games are actually getting very expensive....
In my country, iirc, average salary (not game dev, in general) is around 900€, and if game is 60€, you can imagen that's quite a bit.....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Second post down. Utter destruction...
A wonderfully comprehensive, delightfully eloquent beat-down. The only problem is that a rag like Examiner.com probably won't take any action, as despite how woefully pathetic this article is, it's at least generating pageviews - and that's all that matters to them.
Still, it's nice to see such drivel being roundly denounced by fans and devs alike. Thanks for posting that rebuttal, Warren.
It's.... beautiful.
And this time... we sent a poet.
Alex's DBZ RPG 5
Wow. Yes, allow me to work for free. I'm just happy making my art. I don't require things like income.
http://penguinrungames.com/interviews.php
Also, read the comments of OP's linked article. No one gives the writer's opinions any credence :P
God this guy is an idiot,
You know that kid who always sat in the back of class and sniffed the Mr. Sketch markers a little too much?
Yeah, that was this guy.