Thankspraetor187! I'll be adding poutches on the side and then, I model the low res.
Thank you St4lis! I modeled the shirt in marvelous designer (cloth simulations) and I think I made the weird part out of cotton instead of leather... I'll have to change that.
Awesome, I love the new patchwork design, it's really believable. I think the problem everyone had with the original design is that it probably seemed like a design that would be on a whimsical fantasy anime rpg character, and yours looked fairly realistic. Anyway, I think the new design really fits a realistic art direction, and will definitely make for a good portfolio piece.
Thanks minorthreat! It will be the best thing in my portfolio (if I don't mess it up at textures).
Thank you AlexKola! I have to admit I don't have much merit on the folds. It was done in Marvelous designer with cloth simulations and altered a bit in zbrush to fit with the armor and with a simple bump map for the small details.
It's a very nice software and easy to use. At any time, if your computer is to slow for the simulation, you can dynamically change the polygon resolution while it's simulating. It's worth having a look!!
I'm done with the low res and I generated the normal and AO. With the hair/eyes/teeth I'm just above 13 000 tris. With the previous sword and shield I should be at 14 000 tris.
I like where you are with this. I know you aren't done yet, but variation in the color and value of the armor pieces will help break them apart. right now they all seem to be the same color.
Well done! She looks fantastic! I think spending more time on the composition is the only thing left, I have a feeling this will sort out most problems for you!
C86G - Thanks! I guess I simply took more time on the last design and I listened to a lot of comments on this forum.
katana - Thanks! I know what you mean. On the last image, just about every leather parts are the same color with some Ddo effect on top. Right now I'm baking another base diffuse with more variations.
Stormfreek - Thanks! When you say composition, are you taling about the pose of the character or the way I comped the different views together? I'll make something more "final" like what I did with the old version perviously.
Wow this thread is awesome, quite an inspiration! I absolutely love the new character design, it is leagues above the old one!
I really only have 1 thing to critique. Something around the eyes seems a bit off anatomically. Now it actually seems to not be noticeable in the textured version so whether or not you want to fix it depends.
If you do want to tweak it then perhaps you could post an image with a close up on the sculpted face(including an angle looking up at her face)?
And I'll try to take a closer look at what might be causing the strangeness.
Anyway she's really coming along! Keep up the great work! Looking forward to seeing this completed.
P.S. The plastic look that someone else was talking about probably has to do with current gen tech, and the way we've been trained to use specular. It leads to plastic-y things. The amount of light reflected from an object tends to be roughly the same value across the entire material type in real life and the gloss value is what changes.
If you change your mode of thinking then the results are quite nice.(provided your shader handles a spec and gloss map.)
Man that is sweet, I think you should revisit the color scheme though, the colors look more sci fi then medieval to me.
and you should probably break up some of the shapes with more hue and color variations.
artquest - Thank you. I actually worked on the face a lot. It's the exact same model I used for another project. You can see a closeup below. Using Ddo helps a lot to get the right specualr/gloss.
lotet - Thanks! I've made some changes in the colors but I think it's now to dark. I'll try getting the shirt's leather and the pants to be more pale. I'm guessing the sci-fi feel must be from the super green of the shirt and the super pink belt buckle? I'll tweak it up.
looking good, but you might need to paint scratches or scuffs on where there are edges. the texture just blends too much in my opinion and not enough blocks of contrast on the model itself. also, fix up your spec, he face looks very oily atm. keep it up
What I think you need to work on is the armor, It looks like you have many different types of leather, so they should have different material qualities,
The armor is quite busy so many different pieces, also I would consider going back and doing some retopoing, that is getting some edges on the leather and were different parts meet (Belt buckle for example could definitely be a seperate mesh.
Also it feels like I can see noise brushes spilling between parts of the textures (I can see the noise on the belt spilling into the stuff below.
Try and seperate some parts, dont make it all the same model. keep at it
Thanks garriola83, I'll see if I can make very different wear and tear on the belts. For the spec of the face, I might lower it down a bit but I still want the face to go along what's happening on the rest of the body. I'm also thinking of changing the hair spec to include a little bit of dirt.
Thank you sjuskadur! I'll modify the belts to separate more. For retopology, it's too fare into the project for me. I have to finish this. Don't forget that I had also done another version so I really don't want to go back to retopology and redo textures again. I'll try to apply what you said on my next project.
For the noise, I suppose you mean the leaky mud effect? If so, I think it's important for the mud to be on all parts since it's an environmental effect. But maybe I didn't get what you mean.
look at the difference in gloss values between your high res render and the low poly model for the face, the gloss value should be a lot lower overall with some high gloss spattering on the nose and forhead.
I don't how this guy pulled that off from your draw over Lee. Either you are very good explaining what you mean with two lines or this guy in great at interpreting other's thoughts, haha. Looks much better, honestly. I like it now. No need to show skin or exaggerate female anatomy to make a female character interesting. I like it. Now, keep following Gir's advice .
Did a paint over to show what direction I would try to go with this design.
Key things to note:
-Added shadows underneath the various layers of clothing and armor to make them pop
-Increased the saturation on some parts for better contrast
-Made the lower part of her darker
-Added curvature to some of the straight lines for a more organic look, such as her belt, abdominal armor, and thigh pads
-Removed the stripe pattern on the back of her shirt so that her arms can read well when they are on top of her back
Something else to consider is to break up the grime with some clean patches to decrease the clutter
I hope you find this useful. Keep up the good work!
Quasars paintover is EXACLTY what I ment with "breaking up the shapes and and more color variation".
you see how clear the leather suit is seperated from the armor pieces?
and the red parts add small details to look at but still dont take the atention since they are so dark. lots of sweet stuff in that paintover there.
a good way to work on this is to take your render, turn it black and white, and see if you can still read all the forms and different material definitions. and then ad colors back in later.
Quasar - Thank you. I took some of your advice for the color. I didn't go as far as your paintover though. Getting rid of the stripes at the back was a great idea.
I also only made texture changes and no modeling changes since I'm too far in this project to go back like that.
lotet - I changed the colors a lot but I didn't want to go that dark and also, didn't want any saturated orange color.
Here's where I'm at. I reduced the face spec, Made a lot more color variations and added dirt to the hair. I also changed the eye color.
sweet, I like the update, you did the same thing we sugested but in your own way .
I still think you could make some sort of gradient map where legs and hands are darken, making the focus more clear, but thats more of a styalized thing and might not fit with the character.
anyways, good job with this one, you should be proud!
for texturing. always make sure ur values aren't the same. Just take the render or screenshot and desaturate it. Also a light gradient would be nice. So the first thing you see is the top of the character.
for texturing. always make sure ur values aren't the same. Just take the render or screenshot and desaturate it. Also a light gradient would be nice. So the first thing you see is the top of the character.
Desaturation isn't a very good way to get value readability because it just strips the image of hue without taking into account color luminosity. You're better off running the Photoshop black and white filter over it instead.
lotet - Thanks! Yeah, I don't think I'll make that gradient thing or it would make the hands near black and look wierd if I get what you mean. I can truly say I'm proud of this project. It got me out of my confort zone and was all worth it.
Quasar - First time I hear that. The final animation (turn table) will be rendered in Marmoset so I'll just make sur the colors look right in there.
Sorry it's under image adjustments, you can also create a black and white adjustment layer. Black and white actually isn't the best way to do it but it's the same amount of work as desaturation. The best way to do it is to flatten your image and use a luminosity layer but that requires more setup.
Sorry it's under image adjustments, you can also create a black and white adjustment layer. Black and white actually isn't the best way to do it but it's the same amount of work as desaturation. The best way to do it is to flatten your image and use a luminosity layer but that requires more setup.
I believe the black and white will give you the same result as luminosity if you set every color value in the options to 100 instead of whatever it gives by default. Not 100% sure on this though.
btw the latest update is looking nice! I like the pose.
The armor and equipment is very nicely modeled! Some very fine work indeed.
I noticed something strange in the high rez render that you may want to take a look at. Theres a strange lump where the crows feet should be on the face. I've circled it below:
Going from page 1 to 4 I really love how much you improved the armour. It went from something nonsensical and somewhat demeaning to one of the coolest female armours I've seen.
I believe the black and white will give you the same result as luminosity if you set every color value in the options to 100 instead of whatever it gives by default. Not 100% sure on this though.
AFAIK that won't work.
B&W is really a photographer tool, for converting color photographs to greyscale while maintaining or improving composition by allowing you to weight color channels so that some colors are darker/lighter than others by using the sliders. It has presets for mimicking colored camera lens filters for that reason. Setting the values to equal numbers should just give you a linear gradient ramp like desaturation.
That's interesting! I'd like to know what kind of calculations that goes behind those filters.
Sorry I'm not sure what formulas photoshop uses If you just google color luminance formula you'll get a few different ones that will all produce similar results to the default B&W effect though
If I had to guess I think Luminosity is just taking the Lab lightness value and converting it to 0-255 range.
B&W is really a photographer tool, for converting color photographs to greyscale while maintaining or improving composition by allowing you to weight color channels so that some colors are darker/lighter than others by using the sliders. It has presets for mimicking colored camera lens filters for that reason. Setting the values to equal numbers should just give you a linear gradient ramp like desaturation.
Sorry I'm not sure what formulas photoshop uses If you just google color luminance formula you'll get a few different ones that will all produce similar results to the default B&W effect though
If I had to guess I think Luminosity is just taking the Lab lightness value and converting it to 0-255 range.
The way I validated my test before was checking the brightness value with the color picker on the same pixel before and after applying the b/w filter with all values set to 100(I believe those settings are a percent value). pixels with 70% brightness stayed at 70% so I assumed it was very close to taking the luminance of an image.
Desaturation isn't a very good way to get value readability because it just strips the image of hue without taking into account color luminosity. You're better off running the Photoshop black and white filter over it instead.
Or you just drop another layer on it, fill with black and adjust setting to 'Saturation'
@Artquest
Test it on the rainbow I posted and it should be pretty obvious. If it looks like a gradient ramp then it's treating every color the same which wouldn't happen if it is taking into account color luminance. Check out this for a better explanation: http://www.workwithcolor.com/color-luminance-2233.htm
@Katana
Not sure why the saturation blend mode works differently than the saturation adjustment layer and desaturate function but yes that works!
Replies
(The wrinkles in the lower back are a bit wired though)
Thankspraetor187! I'll be adding poutches on the side and then, I model the low res.
Thank you St4lis! I modeled the shirt in marvelous designer (cloth simulations) and I think I made the weird part out of cotton instead of leather... I'll have to change that.
Thank you AlexKola! I have to admit I don't have much merit on the folds. It was done in Marvelous designer with cloth simulations and altered a bit in zbrush to fit with the armor and with a simple bump map for the small details.
[ame="
It's a very nice software and easy to use. At any time, if your computer is to slow for the simulation, you can dynamically change the polygon resolution while it's simulating. It's worth having a look!!
Thank you Shanthosa, I respect you in return!:)
I'm done with the low res and I generated the normal and AO. With the hair/eyes/teeth I'm just above 13 000 tris. With the previous sword and shield I should be at 14 000 tris.
I still have to tweek some textures and add the shield and sword. I might have to redo the sword so it fits the design.
This is rendered in Marmoset toolbag.
Looks waaay better! Congrats!
You probably knew that already though...:)
I'd suggest making the dirt on her face more streaked as opposed to spotted like now.
katana - Thanks! I know what you mean. On the last image, just about every leather parts are the same color with some Ddo effect on top. Right now I'm baking another base diffuse with more variations.
KristaW - Thanks! Some happy mistakes!
Garnet - Thank you. Makes sens. I'll get on that.
Stormfreek - Thanks! When you say composition, are you taling about the pose of the character or the way I comped the different views together? I'll make something more "final" like what I did with the old version perviously.
just went back to page one, yup definitely a step into the rigth direction, wow that outfit was weird ^^
I really only have 1 thing to critique. Something around the eyes seems a bit off anatomically. Now it actually seems to not be noticeable in the textured version so whether or not you want to fix it depends.
If you do want to tweak it then perhaps you could post an image with a close up on the sculpted face(including an angle looking up at her face)?
And I'll try to take a closer look at what might be causing the strangeness.
Anyway she's really coming along! Keep up the great work! Looking forward to seeing this completed.
P.S. The plastic look that someone else was talking about probably has to do with current gen tech, and the way we've been trained to use specular. It leads to plastic-y things. The amount of light reflected from an object tends to be roughly the same value across the entire material type in real life and the gloss value is what changes.
If you change your mode of thinking then the results are quite nice.(provided your shader handles a spec and gloss map.)
and you should probably break up some of the shapes with more hue and color variations.
artquest - Thank you. I actually worked on the face a lot. It's the exact same model I used for another project. You can see a closeup below. Using Ddo helps a lot to get the right specualr/gloss.
lotet - Thanks! I've made some changes in the colors but I think it's now to dark. I'll try getting the shirt's leather and the pants to be more pale. I'm guessing the sci-fi feel must be from the super green of the shirt and the super pink belt buckle? I'll tweak it up.
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/user/Olivier_Theriault/media/HeadTopo_339_comp_zpsb70fd8a3.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c208/Olivier_Theriault/HeadTopo_339_comp_zpsb70fd8a3.jpg~original" border="0" alt=" photo HeadTopo_339_comp_zpsb70fd8a3.jpg"/></a>
What I think you need to work on is the armor, It looks like you have many different types of leather, so they should have different material qualities,
The armor is quite busy so many different pieces, also I would consider going back and doing some retopoing, that is getting some edges on the leather and were different parts meet (Belt buckle for example could definitely be a seperate mesh.
Also it feels like I can see noise brushes spilling between parts of the textures (I can see the noise on the belt spilling into the stuff below.
Try and seperate some parts, dont make it all the same model. keep at it
Thank you sjuskadur! I'll modify the belts to separate more. For retopology, it's too fare into the project for me. I have to finish this. Don't forget that I had also done another version so I really don't want to go back to retopology and redo textures again. I'll try to apply what you said on my next project.
For the noise, I suppose you mean the leaky mud effect? If so, I think it's important for the mud to be on all parts since it's an environmental effect. But maybe I didn't get what you mean.
Key things to note:
-Added shadows underneath the various layers of clothing and armor to make them pop
-Increased the saturation on some parts for better contrast
-Made the lower part of her darker
-Added curvature to some of the straight lines for a more organic look, such as her belt, abdominal armor, and thigh pads
-Removed the stripe pattern on the back of her shirt so that her arms can read well when they are on top of her back
Something else to consider is to break up the grime with some clean patches to decrease the clutter
I hope you find this useful. Keep up the good work!
you see how clear the leather suit is seperated from the armor pieces?
and the red parts add small details to look at but still dont take the atention since they are so dark. lots of sweet stuff in that paintover there.
a good way to work on this is to take your render, turn it black and white, and see if you can still read all the forms and different material definitions. and then ad colors back in later.
Snake - Thanks!
Quasar - Thank you. I took some of your advice for the color. I didn't go as far as your paintover though. Getting rid of the stripes at the back was a great idea.
I also only made texture changes and no modeling changes since I'm too far in this project to go back like that.
lotet - I changed the colors a lot but I didn't want to go that dark and also, didn't want any saturated orange color.
Here's where I'm at. I reduced the face spec, Made a lot more color variations and added dirt to the hair. I also changed the eye color.
I still think you could make some sort of gradient map where legs and hands are darken, making the focus more clear, but thats more of a styalized thing and might not fit with the character.
anyways, good job with this one, you should be proud!
lotet - Thanks! Yeah, I don't think I'll make that gradient thing or it would make the hands near black and look wierd if I get what you mean. I can truly say I'm proud of this project. It got me out of my confort zone and was all worth it.
Quasar - First time I hear that. The final animation (turn table) will be rendered in Marmoset so I'll just make sur the colors look right in there.
KristaW - Thanks for subscribing!!
Iciban - I'll check the values better. I might try to make that gradient with the lights.
AtticusMars - I've checked in photosho (Cs3) and didn't find a "black and white" filter. How is it different from desaturation?
Here's another update. I still have some tweaking to do with the pose/textures and I'll probably add in another plant.
I believe the black and white will give you the same result as luminosity if you set every color value in the options to 100 instead of whatever it gives by default. Not 100% sure on this though.
btw the latest update is looking nice! I like the pose.
The armor and equipment is very nicely modeled! Some very fine work indeed.
I noticed something strange in the high rez render that you may want to take a look at. Theres a strange lump where the crows feet should be on the face. I've circled it below:
Great job, keep it up !
B&W is really a photographer tool, for converting color photographs to greyscale while maintaining or improving composition by allowing you to weight color channels so that some colors are darker/lighter than others by using the sliders. It has presets for mimicking colored camera lens filters for that reason. Setting the values to equal numbers should just give you a linear gradient ramp like desaturation.
Sorry I'm not sure what formulas photoshop uses
If I had to guess I think Luminosity is just taking the Lab lightness value and converting it to 0-255 range.
The way I validated my test before was checking the brightness value with the color picker on the same pixel before and after applying the b/w filter with all values set to 100(I believe those settings are a percent value). pixels with 70% brightness stayed at 70% so I assumed it was very close to taking the luminance of an image.
Or you just drop another layer on it, fill with black and adjust setting to 'Saturation'
Test it on the rainbow I posted and it should be pretty obvious. If it looks like a gradient ramp then it's treating every color the same which wouldn't happen if it is taking into account color luminance. Check out this for a better explanation: http://www.workwithcolor.com/color-luminance-2233.htm
@Katana
Not sure why the saturation blend mode works differently than the saturation adjustment layer and desaturate function but yes that works!