Getting a loan, buying some licenses/hardware?
polycounter lvl 14
Hey Guys,
So recently I started freelancing and over the years I have read on various forums that people generally use the money they get from their first few jobs to get their licenses for the programs they use.
Honestly, right now I do not have allot of work to be able to afford the software + any other regular bills that need to be paid. So I figured I'd get a loan to buy all the licenses and hardware I need, which is Maya, Mudbox, Photoshop, Bodypaint3d and a new computer, and pay the bank in increments for the loan.
I was hoping for any tips and things to look out for when buying these licenses, as it will be my first time ever. Maybe you guys know stuff to be able to get these software for cheaper, without resulting to any illegal stuff. =]
Also I want to avoid the free alternatives like blender, gimp and what not. I simply do not want to lower my production speed by needing to learn new software. I'd rather focus on improving my current workflow than needing to learn a new one if I have time for it.
So when it comes to the basics that I need it is a new computer. Period.
I bought a mid range laptop a few years ago and it is really showing its age. As a reference.. for me to be able to play any recent game that has come out at a sub par FPS (20-30 most of the time) I need to play on the lowest of lowest settings.
Software wise I will be needing; Maya, Photoshop, and Mudbox/Bodypaint3d. I started out 3d using Cinema4d, Bodypaint3d is a part of that program. I have since moved on the Maya for any 3d modelling and what not. But I still use Bodypaint3d, mainly for unwrapping my models, and the occasional low poly models that I need to handpaint. Also now that Bodypaint3d has sculpting tools, it could possibly replace Mudbox altogether for me, but it is still in its "infant" stage, it needs allot of improvements still. Though from my testings it seems to have all of the basics that a sculpting app should have.
What was the deal with Photoshop CS 12 again? Supposedly PS CS2 is free, but I read that it really isn't. It was kind of confusing.
Also, if there are any Dutch people around here that have experience with this stuff and being a freelancer, can I benefit from tax "refund" things? I am not sure what to call it in English.
I am basically trying to lower my costs as much as possible.
TL;DR.
Started freelancing, need licenses and hardware. Any advice?
So recently I started freelancing and over the years I have read on various forums that people generally use the money they get from their first few jobs to get their licenses for the programs they use.
Honestly, right now I do not have allot of work to be able to afford the software + any other regular bills that need to be paid. So I figured I'd get a loan to buy all the licenses and hardware I need, which is Maya, Mudbox, Photoshop, Bodypaint3d and a new computer, and pay the bank in increments for the loan.
I was hoping for any tips and things to look out for when buying these licenses, as it will be my first time ever. Maybe you guys know stuff to be able to get these software for cheaper, without resulting to any illegal stuff. =]
Also I want to avoid the free alternatives like blender, gimp and what not. I simply do not want to lower my production speed by needing to learn new software. I'd rather focus on improving my current workflow than needing to learn a new one if I have time for it.
So when it comes to the basics that I need it is a new computer. Period.
I bought a mid range laptop a few years ago and it is really showing its age. As a reference.. for me to be able to play any recent game that has come out at a sub par FPS (20-30 most of the time) I need to play on the lowest of lowest settings.
Software wise I will be needing; Maya, Photoshop, and Mudbox/Bodypaint3d. I started out 3d using Cinema4d, Bodypaint3d is a part of that program. I have since moved on the Maya for any 3d modelling and what not. But I still use Bodypaint3d, mainly for unwrapping my models, and the occasional low poly models that I need to handpaint. Also now that Bodypaint3d has sculpting tools, it could possibly replace Mudbox altogether for me, but it is still in its "infant" stage, it needs allot of improvements still. Though from my testings it seems to have all of the basics that a sculpting app should have.
What was the deal with Photoshop CS 12 again? Supposedly PS CS2 is free, but I read that it really isn't. It was kind of confusing.
Also, if there are any Dutch people around here that have experience with this stuff and being a freelancer, can I benefit from tax "refund" things? I am not sure what to call it in English.
I am basically trying to lower my costs as much as possible.
TL;DR.
Started freelancing, need licenses and hardware. Any advice?
Replies
Consider not doing so. We're just now coming out of a bad recession. Credit is bad news. Get a job and freelance on the side. Consider using free software like Blender, it is extremely capable. For instance, it is very good at painting directly on the model ala bodypaint. You can learn that technique 10 minutes. Great UV set too. Spend some off-time getting used to it and use your internet connection for when you get stuck. Blender is a great modelling tool. Hardware-wise; build a PC. We'll help you with that if you need.
For the hardware. Really build it yourself. You pay a heap load more just for a darn brand name so you can build better then what you would buy of the shelf. Shops i use frequently are alternate.nl and azerty.nl. Great customer service and a lot of choices for a good price (you can see that if compare prices on tweakers.net).
-Maya $3,500+
-Photoshop CS3 $350+ (if you can trust an open box version)[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000O17CQ0/ref=sr_1_10_np_0_olp?s=software&ie=UTF8&qid=1360756337&sr=1-10&condition=used[/ame]
-Mudbox 2009 $200+ (if you can trust open box)[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0026N1G02/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used[/ame]
$5,000 loan to buy software and try to get freelance work sounds like a horrible idea, freelancing isn't a very stable job, you may not be able to find work for a month.
Get student version of 3DS Max/Maya to use for learning, then when a contract lands, rent the software (Max (maybe Maya too) and Adobe apps). Tack on the cost of the rental into your fee... Rent as long as you are doing the contract.
Maya does have a 90 day license for $200 http://store.autodesk.com/store/adskus/en_US/pd/Autodesk_Maya_90-Day_Fixed_Term_License/productID.258257400?noscroll=1&mktvar004=521008
Edit: also to get a loan as a ZZPer you will have to have some sort of business plan etc.
Photoshop Cs2 is now free, so grab that instead.
Learn blender or other free alternatives. It's shit to say but everyone has to start there. Then work your way up freelancing on the side with a part/full time job to support you. Putting yourself in a un-proven freelance position will leave you saddled with tons of dept.
Build up cash and buy everything piecemeal or as noted above get the rent a license versions which are much cheaper all around.
It certainly is not, let's not have that again!
Andreas -
The reason I started freelancing is because I couldn't find a proper job. Unless you are referring to any kind of job instead of just CG/Game work. Flippin' burgers? Cleaning toilets? =P
I tried getting into Blender mutliple times, never where able to get comfortable with it. Guess it was just easier for me to stick with what I was familiar with.
HardBaller -
Cheers, thanks for the tips. I'll have to look into building my own PC. Never built on my own.
ZacD -
Cheers man. I am not trying to get freelance work by buying software licenses, I'll try to get work with my portfolio. =P
TeeJay -
Thanks for the tips. The Adobe Subscription seems to be very affordable. I will look into Modo as well. I have heard allot of good things about it. =]
Lamont -
Cheers. I am already familiar with Maya. But you make a good point with renting it, definitely more affordable.
2cat -
Cheers man, I already registered as a ZZP. Some more info about what exactly I can get back would be nice though.
Well humorous cliches aren't really representative of the reality, in this case. The world is not split into gaming job- toilet cleaning job- flipping burger job. Working a 'normal job' and saving for these things is a way better plan than getting a loan and not knowing if you'll even be able to pay it back.
You might not even be given a loan because you have no income or employment.
Instead of earning money and paying for software when I am able to, I would essentially have a "subscription" with the bank, where I would need to pay them every month and have all the stuff I need right from the start.
But yeah, I might not even get a loan.. It's not that I do not have any kind of income, but like said freelancing, unless you are in it a long time, is not a very stable thing.
http://www.blender.org/
http://blenderartists.org/forum/forum.php
http://www.blenderguru.com/
http://cgcookie.com/blender/
As for general 2D editing, I think it's worth the price to buy Photoshop (or use the subscription service). I've used Gimp a lot, and it is a painful application to get used to, IMO.
Yeah Gimp is in no way a substitute for PS, in my opinion. It's a bit sad that we don't have a good alternative for that or Flash (animating vectors).
Also in our country you can actually get finned with a big ass fine (doh) if you pay off more just like that. It's luckily not always the case but it all depends on your contract and type of loan. Just happens to be a boat i've been sailing in myself until recently. So that's another thing to really be sure about if you get a loan here.
Taking out a small loan that you will be able to easily pay off is actually an extremely good way to build credit, which is important if you ever want to buy a new car or a house.
Now, if your job prospects are slim to none, taking out a loan is risky, but if that is the case, making any sort of investment in hardware/software is risky as well, so the OP likely understands the risks.
That's seriously messed up. Do you have the option to refinance? If so, you could simply refinance with a shorter loan term if you're able to pay down your loan faster than you initially expected. We did this recently with our mortgage and saved about 45K by switching from a 30 year loan to a 15 year loan, and with a 3% interest rate vs the old 5% rate, we only pay slightly more per month.
Banks here are happy to refinance your loan though, because if they don't you can go to another bank and refinance.
For the time being, I would suggest looking into Autodesk's educational licenses, if you're not currently doing paid work, this should work for you as you build up your portfolio, and you can buy a paid license when the work starts to come in. Its not uncommon to do one or two jobs before you start paying for software, and nobody is going to look down on you for doing this. Autodesk would rather you do a couple jobs on education software and then buy a commercial version than not buy it at all, if you know what I mean.
Yes there is an option to refinance here. Though not all banks or other companies do that. It's exactly what i did after getting a better income. Could spend more but wanted to get rid of my loan and blacklisting (yeah you get blacklisten (sort of) called BKR registration here if you get a loan) faster. So yeah you can do that if your income changes though you of course get new interest rates and usually you can't do it within the same company. They (in my experience) are simple that they just think " change your contract. ha you pay what you owe or find it some place else. if you can". Of course this is put down a bit harsh but that's the overall mentality in our country. First the money then maybe very very very maybe you get help.
You can rent Maya? Never knew that
I think what we're saying is more along the lines of 'it's a terrible idea to get a loan you don't really need.' I think it's better to explore other options if it can be helped. The bigger the loan the better an idea this is. And 5K is a considerable loan for a person in their early twenties with no steady income, IMO.
And yes, many banks, in countries I've been a resident of, charge you extra if you pay a bigger chunk off your loan. Bankers are complete arseholes, thought we'd learned that already? They're not out to help us, they're out to help themselves to as much of our cash (interest) as possible.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/netherlands/interest-rate
Though making use of the subscription deals is probably better I think. Since you are not stuck with a certain version but are always up to date with the latest version of a program. But than again, if something does the job, it is good enough.
Also, I just checked my bank and its loan services. If I understood things correctly, it is possible to either pay the agreed amount every month, or the total remaining+interest you would normally pay. It however is not possible to pay 1k every month or something.
I dont understand why they would fine you for paying the money back + the interest.
Also about BKR... I thought that only happens if you are unable to pay for stuff or simply didnt? Like phone bills and what not?
Getting blacklisted because you get a loan sounds.. kinda stupid. But than again I do not have much experience with loans and what not so... yeah dunno.
If you're just trying to flesh out your portfolio, then build a cheap, but powerful PC, learn Blender and Gimp and save up for the tools you want and buy them when you can afford them. Of course, you have to do what is right for you, but I don't see the sense in creating a financial burden that you probably don't really need.
Yeah really the main thing you need to keep in mind is how interest works. 5K @ 10 years(10 years is a really long loan term for a loan of that size btw) wouldn't be $41(5000/10/12) every month. Its $41 + interest every month.
Lets say you get an 8% interest rate ( have no idea what personal loan rates are there, but this is probably in the ball park).
So a 5K/10 year loan means you pay about $2280 in interest at $60 a month.
A 5K/5 year loan = $1080 in interest at $100 a month.
A 5K/2 year loan = $430 in interest at $225 a month.
So yeah, just to put that all in perspective. If you can get by with a shorter loan term, you save a lot of money in interest payments.
In general terms an 8% rate is sort of crappy, its way better than taking out debt on a credit card(15-20%), but way worse than say, an auto or home loan(2-6%). If you can pay it down in a short amount of time, like less than 3 years, the interest hit isn't too bad. But 10 years, that's almost 50% of the loan on top for interest, thats probably not worth it.
Also, if you don't have a steady "day job" or money saved up that will let you keep up with your loan payments if you go without 3d work for an extended period of time, I would not get a loan.
Again I have zero experience with loans and what not and was just wondering how you got to the 60,- a month.
But I will probably not bother with the loan anymore. Ill use the Adobe subscription and 3 month license for Maya. Save up some money to buy Bodypaint3d (or Modo if I end up liking it) and a new machine. If all goes well and I have enough to pay for Photoshop I'll just buy it instead of continuing the subscription. I am not so sure about Maya though, 4k still sounds like allot even if I could afford it. If I end up liking Modo and it can replace most of the stuff I do with Maya I'll probably get Modo instead.
If you hate the free tools, well, that'll just spur you on to save more aggressively.
Borrowing money just to have something faster is almost always a bad idea, except in the case of something like a house.
As for getting fined on paying your loan off early, you're getting "fined" because if you'd pay it off in the agreed upon time you pay them a lot of interest. They'll lose out on that if you pay early, so they "fine" you to make up some of that loss. Kinda sneaky but its dependant on the loan and the bank / company that financed your loan.
As for tax deductable stuff: basically you can deduct everything you buy for your business. Any business costs and purchases can be deducted, software purchases, software subscriptions, hardware purchases, buying a new desk, junk like that.
my 2 cents
I know you said specifically that you do not wish to do this but man, you are setting yourself up for financial hardship if you get the loan. Its hard enough to be a freelance guy starting out, but with the added pressure of paying off a loan, it could be really bad. Personally, I'm still really pissed about my own loans via college. Wish I could go back in time and go another route. Good luck!
There are a good deal of free alternatives, like blender, gimp, etc
Autodesk also offers some student licensees as well, which should be totally valid for anything but paid work. I'm not sure what sort of requirements you need, but check it out here: http://students.autodesk.com/?nd=download_center
There was also the whole photoshop CS2 fiasco "is it free" thing, which is enough of a gray area to look into: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115381
I wish I could explain how interest works but I'm not that smart. I think you pay 8%(or whatever the rate is) yearly.
So with a fixed monthly payment, as you owe less and less on the loan, you pay less and less interest, so the ratio of principal to interest changes over the course of the loan. When you first get a loan is when you're paying the most interest.
Which is also why it makes sense to pay more than the minimum monthly payment, as you're paying only principal at that point, which will pay your loan off way faster.
go scrape up ~$100 for photoshop elements
boom dun
Rent 3DS Max for 90 days $200 USD: ::Linky::
Don`t know how many times you can do it, but I assume you can use when you need.
Sounds like a sweet deal but tbh i'm afraid that it's only a sort of production trail given that they use the word "Try" in the description.
When I click on the buy 3 month license thingy I get redirected to a page where I need to select language and country. When I click on buy maya, it simply doesn't show the option.
Also about BKR.. Yeah I understand now, at first I thought it was just a regular blacklist, something negative, someone owing a company or bank money. While that is the case for loans.. it isn't negative perse.
It'd be nice if you'd ask your step-dad for us. Thanks! =]
Taking out a small personal loan, and using a credit card but paying it off before you owe any interest are both excellent ways to build positive credit.
[ame="
anyway, on the other side - I've always seen freelancing as starting your own business, not something to take lightly or on a lark. The usual suggestion is to have the enough savings to go without income for 3-6 months and I've heard people say not to expect your business to be profitable in the first year.
"Polycount will not be used as a platform for speaking out in favor of piracy, thus threads centering around piracy may be removed/deleted"
Commercial 3D apps have 30 day trials, that's more than enough time to learn how to use one for a studio position.
Got it. I think i just forgot that rule. Forgive me for being such a bad noob...