Double-fine got more from the internet to do an indie point-and-click adventure, then an entire studio with 180 people(some whom are crazy bad-ass) in the middle of Montreal is worth. It's flipping ridiculous.
As well as the fact that no one wanted to buy Vigil. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
I think it's more about the independent smaller studio coming to an end.
If anything theres a boom in independent studios, after each closing of a large studio lately there have been several smaller indie teams popping up which are being built up out of veterans from the industry. Its very sad to see places close, perhaps this is growing pains of the industry?
from the ashes of Vigil, lets hope new indie studio will arise
The more this happens the sooner our industry will change in the wake of all this madness - hopefully for the better. Little by little those who make the games are moving away from those who pay for the development and finding other ways - in their own self interest. Instability is not what we came to this industry for, and has become way too normal.
..i'm waiting for the axe to fall myself in the next month or so
In THQ's defense, they seemed to have handled themselves as best they could in this situation.
I'm hopeful that the amazing talented people from Vigil will have minimal trouble landing work. Best of luck.
It's always sad to see a solid studio shut down. Vigil did good work, and managed to ship multiple solid games. They will be missed.
This THQ collapse does highlight how shaky the traditional publisher model is. Activision and EA need to take a good long look at this and start thinking of ways to change their business models. EA is the most at risk. Activision has Modern Warfare and World of Warcraft to prop them up.
Hopefully Sega will handle Relic well. Relic has been one of my favorite developers for quite some time. They have a long list of critically praised titles, and have even managed to do well with the licensed properties they have been handed.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion - this was a publisher who owns multiple studios shutting down.
Independent as in, uncoupled from the other studios under the same publisher.
Ubisoft's studios around the world are a shared resource, for example. Or those of Electronic Arts.
The point is that internal studios can be utilized more efficiently, there's less downtime and additional resources can be allocated to projects that would otherwise miss their release dates.
This also means the studios lose their freedom and all.
I guess independent was the wrong word though, not sure what to use here. But I hope now you get what I've meant...
My name is Ben Cureton, and I was the Lead Combat Designer at Vigil Games. I'm sitting at my desk among... what appears to be a warzone. The walls look bare. It's quiet.
The seats are empty.
We've all been on edge for the past couple months... and more so, the last couple weeks. I mean, I'm sure you can imagine what it's like to wonder if you will have a job tomorrow. Most of us here joked about it just to keep the mood light, but we all knew what could happen. Now I look around and I realize... it did happen.
Am I sad? Well yea. I've been in this industry for 20 years. Seriously. Two decades. I've been laid off more than once. It sucks every time. But am I sad I don't have a job? Not really... I'm sure I'll get another one eventually. I'm sad because it won't be THIS job. It won't be at Vigil. That's why I'm sad. The people I waged war with are no longer together. The people that I bled with, vented with, argued with (often times LOUDLY), and kicked back with... these people will never be together again in the same combination.
Not that it was perfect. But what is perfect? Did I like coming to work? Yes. Was I proud of the work that I did? Yes. More importantly, was I proud of the work that WE did? Absolutely. I knew, without a shadow of the doubt, that the project we were working on (Codenamed: Crawler) was going to blow people away. In fact, it DID blow people away. We did, in TWO months, what many companies haven't done in a year. The pride of knowing that no one was doing anything like us was so satisfying, it kept us coming to work and giving 100% every single day, even through the dark times.
... so maybe you can imagine what it feels like when you read the list of who bought what only to discover your name is not on the list. Why? Did we do something wrong? Were we not good enough? Were we not worth 'anything?' Imagine that.
Vigil was filled with people that I would put up against the best in the industry. People that made my work better, people that made me a better designer, and people that made me a better person. And now they are gone.
Their seats are empty.
It's OK, though. I guess this post makes it sound a bit melodramatic. Seriously... if you work in the video game industry you have to be resilient. Doing what you love often comes with a price - anyone who has been around for a while can tell you that. Today, that price has been paid. That being said, I'd still never dissuade anyone from following their dreams if their dream is to make video games. While it's not as romantic as it sounds, it's sure a hell of a lot of fun.
So don't cry for the people at Vigil. We made games for game players. I have no Horror stories from working here... only Honor stories. Through both praise and critiques alike, our goal was always to make a product as if we, ourselves, were the end-user. We may have gotten pushed and pulled in certain directions by forces out of our control, we were always in it to make games for game players. And that's what we did.
I can only hope that those spared from the other companies remain employed long into the future. There is not much worse than false hope, and these people deserve to continue making great games. You may not know their names, but they exist, and they bleed, sweat, and cry for your entertainment. I mean that honestly, with no negativity. They do it... no, WE do it... because we want you to have a good time.
In closing, I can only say thank you to the fans of Vigil games. Your support means more than you can imagine. Your feedback (both positive and negative) gave us long-lasting insight that we will all take with us, wherever we may go. You are the reason we made Darksiders 1 &2... and you are the reason we will continue to make games.
Really sorry to hear that guys. As Cheez said, Bungie his hiring like mad.
I've noticed that publishers are more likely to close a dev studio than a dev studio closing on its own. There are greater benefits and dangers to being owned by a publisher, sad stuff indeed.
It was great seeing everyone last night - the fact that game devs can party after getting laid off warms the cockles of my heart, whatever the fuck cockles are.
Horrible to see such a talented studio as Vigil close, any chance some of the core team will start a new studio? Maybe use Kickstarter to jump on something new? I would back it instantly!
sheeeeit that sucks. i woulda been taking that sword with me muhahah.
Yeah, what happens to all that stuff when an entire company goes bankrupt? Do they auction the assets (like computers, desks and chairs)? Would anyone really care if you just walked out with that sword...?
What about all the 3D assets from the Crawler game? Do they just get deleted? It's not like anyone can really claim them now; right?
This here makes little sense. Wasn't the offer from Clearlake over 60 million? Wouldn't a quicker re-start (no need to fire/hire/relocate, new software training, etc) and migration to a single investor with billions of dollars be a better shot at re-stabilizing the company? With the piecemeal firesale like they do right now, you're 100% sure that you will never ever again see the lost money back. While with the clearlake takeover you would have a chance at getting a healthy company back...
This here makes little sense. Wasn't the offer from Clearlake over 60 million? Wouldn't a quicker re-start (no need to fire/hire/relocate, new software training, etc) and migration to a single investor with billions of dollars be a better shot at re-stabilizing the company? With the piecemeal firesale like they do right now, you're 100% sure that you will never ever again see the lost money back. While with the clearlake takeover you would have a chance at getting a healthy company back...
Am I missing something?
Yep, thats what THQ wanted, thats why they tried to rush the sale to Clearlake. The creditors just wanted the maximum money back though, and the judge made THQ go the separate sale route because it meant the creditors would get more of their money back. Clearlake tried to stay in the bidding as long as they could, but it ended up going higher then they could spend.
This here makes little sense. Wasn't the offer from Clearlake over 60 million? Wouldn't a quicker re-start (no need to fire/hire/relocate, new software training, etc) and migration to a single investor with billions of dollars be a better shot at re-stabilizing the company? With the piecemeal firesale like they do right now, you're 100% sure that you will never ever again see the lost money back. While with the clearlake takeover you would have a chance at getting a healthy company back...
Am I missing something?
You're missing a lot, actually.
When you file for chapter 11, you are attempting to partially default on all of your debts as they have crippled your company beyond salvation.
THQ owed over $200m.
When you have a chapter 11 sale like this, the funds raised during the sale are spread by the court among the various debtors, and then the debt is cleared from the company and they can continue to operate under their new owners.
The only people interested in keeping THQ together, the only people who see any money from that, are the THQ employees (any studios that were shut down, and THQ corporate...presumably everyone else is keeping their jobs, or as likely to keep their jobs as they would under Clearlake, anyways.)
Ergo it is not in the best interests of the creditors to keep the company together if it is worth more separately.
Stabilization of the company is not anyone's goal. it is damage mitigation, pure and simple.
If Clearlake had bought the entirety of THQ for $60m, there isn't any guarantee that they wouldn't shut down or sell off portions of it at a later date, anyways, outside of the word of THQ and Clearlake, and the word of THQ is worth about negative-$120m dollars, so I wouldn't put much faith into it.
It sucks for everyone affected by this, but let's not pretend that the blame lies anywhere outside of THQ's corporate governance. Those mean creditors didn't cost anyone their jobs - 6 years of Brian Farrell's executive team reducing their stock from $35/share to 10 cents a share through repeated failures to navigate the games industry successfully cost them those jobs. There have been literally two dozen studios shut down by THQ prior to their bankruptcy in the last 6 years, and they've been laying people off by the several-hundreds for the past two years.
6 years of Brian Farrell's executive team reducing their stock from $35/share to 10 cents a share through repeated failures to navigate the games industry successfully cost them those jobs. There have been literally two dozen studios shut down by THQ prior to their bankruptcy in the last 6 years, and they've been laying people off by the several-hundreds for the past two years.
My condolences to anybody dealing with this THQ drama, especially Vigil if they continue to be passed over. The artwork from the Darksiders series is oozing with so much awesomeness and style that I just can't bear to think that those devs could split up and go their separate ways. I also hope the other talented teams aren't shaken up too much with their new publishers although this is sometimes easier said than done.
I worked for THQ for close to 6 years and still remember how it felt to see sign after sign that your studio could be next on the chopping block, only to barely survive for another round. I also remember the added anxiety felt knowing that a title we were working on was either going to extend or reduce the publisher's life cycle including several of its top studios. It's bad enough when you think your own studio is on its last leg but when you consider how you could affect other studios like Vigil, Volition, and Relic for example, the pressure magnifies. I'm just so sorry to see that it had to play out like this.
Ok I've rambled enough. Best of luck to all of you and for any artists still seeking positions, please send me a pm if the idea of living in San Fran and working on the Call of Duty franchise sounds enticing.
While THQ intended for the entire company to be sold, its creditors and bankruptcy judge rejected the plan, with the judge stating that the company's efforts to market itself prior to bankruptcy were not sufficient enough to allow such an "aggressive" sale
What a crock of shit !
Creditors = banksters bringing the world to it's knees with a smile. I hate it when creative companies get shafted by these parasites and life goes on regardless for these greedy fucks.
Those creditors also provide the money that allow those studios to exist in the first place. The buildings and salaries are literally payed for with their money until the company makes a profit, so I wouldn't be so quick to damn them.
But then we've already been over this so i'll just say...
I do hate the game. The Studio:Publisher relationship is flawed. It has been for some time. I remember reading about it in EGM when I was like 13 and thinking it was pretty screwed up.
...As well as the fact that no one wanted to buy Vigil. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
A possible reason is that Vigil was in the beginning stages of a new game which meant at least a year and a half (probably more) of expenses before they'd have whoever picked them up would see any revenue. In other words, a massive investment on a new IP which sadly isn't as enticing as something like Company of Heroes which is almost finished. At least that's according to other devs I've talked to, there are probably more reasons.
I hate to see Vigil shut, I loved Darksiders and want to see what happens next Feels a bit like having your favourite show cancelled
Replies
I think it's more about the independent smaller studio coming to an end.
A large publisher can always keep its internal studios busy all around the world by allocating them to various projects. Ubisoft, Sony, EA...
THQ probably wasn't able to keep it together with the different shops. At least that's my impression, which of course is probably not exactly right.
Double-fine got more from the internet to do an indie point-and-click adventure, then an entire studio with 180 people(some whom are crazy bad-ass) in the middle of Montreal is worth. It's flipping ridiculous.
As well as the fact that no one wanted to buy Vigil. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
There's a little too much doom 'n' gloom on this forum sometimes. XO
Ok it sucks, but like another said there are loads of other studios still going strong, its not the end :poly124:
Too busy working on another 'Sonic Racing' :shifty:
Not sure how you came to that conclusion - this was a publisher who owns multiple studios shutting down.
If anything theres a boom in independent studios, after each closing of a large studio lately there have been several smaller indie teams popping up which are being built up out of veterans from the industry. Its very sad to see places close, perhaps this is growing pains of the industry?
The more this happens the sooner our industry will change in the wake of all this madness - hopefully for the better. Little by little those who make the games are moving away from those who pay for the development and finding other ways - in their own self interest. Instability is not what we came to this industry for, and has become way too normal.
..i'm waiting for the axe to fall myself in the next month or so
In THQ's defense, they seemed to have handled themselves as best they could in this situation.
I'm hopeful that the amazing talented people from Vigil will have minimal trouble landing work. Best of luck.
This THQ collapse does highlight how shaky the traditional publisher model is. Activision and EA need to take a good long look at this and start thinking of ways to change their business models. EA is the most at risk. Activision has Modern Warfare and World of Warcraft to prop them up.
Hopefully Sega will handle Relic well. Relic has been one of my favorite developers for quite some time. They have a long list of critically praised titles, and have even managed to do well with the licensed properties they have been handed.
DS is some one of the most iconic art styles in games today. I really wish they got to keep you guys together.
Independent as in, uncoupled from the other studios under the same publisher.
Ubisoft's studios around the world are a shared resource, for example. Or those of Electronic Arts.
The point is that internal studios can be utilized more efficiently, there's less downtime and additional resources can be allocated to projects that would otherwise miss their release dates.
This also means the studios lose their freedom and all.
I guess independent was the wrong word though, not sure what to use here. But I hope now you get what I've meant...
Best of luck to everyone.
^ talks about an open letter from a former employee found below.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46817540&postcount=325
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bSa5zu9EiaY24eOSGE0Acw9yp4lF3lAtWCcmVN9ctn4/preview?sle=true
Best of luck.
http://redstorm.com/news/open-position-senior-multiplayer-designer
http://www.giantbomb.com/chat/
I've noticed that publishers are more likely to close a dev studio than a dev studio closing on its own. There are greater benefits and dangers to being owned by a publisher, sad stuff indeed.
We eat cockles here, btw.
http://www.shacknews.com/article/77536/platinum-games-interested-in-darksiders-franchise
Good luck to all of you! It was a huge hit seeing the auction results, I really hope that you all land on your feet.
Wasn't that shot down by someone else at Platinum?
Either way, that just interest in the ip, not the studio.
Horrible to see such a talented studio as Vigil close, any chance some of the core team will start a new studio? Maybe use Kickstarter to jump on something new? I would back it instantly!
id is hiring programers...
Bethesda is looking for character pple...
lots of opportunity here at the zenimax family.
Yeah, what happens to all that stuff when an entire company goes bankrupt? Do they auction the assets (like computers, desks and chairs)? Would anyone really care if you just walked out with that sword...?
What about all the 3D assets from the Crawler game? Do they just get deleted? It's not like anyone can really claim them now; right?
jup
super sad about this, good luck everyone, you did a great job
http://cghub.com/images/view/412826/
Im sure you guys will get picked up soon by the top developers.
This here makes little sense. Wasn't the offer from Clearlake over 60 million? Wouldn't a quicker re-start (no need to fire/hire/relocate, new software training, etc) and migration to a single investor with billions of dollars be a better shot at re-stabilizing the company? With the piecemeal firesale like they do right now, you're 100% sure that you will never ever again see the lost money back. While with the clearlake takeover you would have a chance at getting a healthy company back...
Am I missing something?
Apparently creditors just want their money back. Weird. Also lame.
Yep, thats what THQ wanted, thats why they tried to rush the sale to Clearlake. The creditors just wanted the maximum money back though, and the judge made THQ go the separate sale route because it meant the creditors would get more of their money back. Clearlake tried to stay in the bidding as long as they could, but it ended up going higher then they could spend.
You're missing a lot, actually.
When you file for chapter 11, you are attempting to partially default on all of your debts as they have crippled your company beyond salvation.
THQ owed over $200m.
When you have a chapter 11 sale like this, the funds raised during the sale are spread by the court among the various debtors, and then the debt is cleared from the company and they can continue to operate under their new owners.
The only people interested in keeping THQ together, the only people who see any money from that, are the THQ employees (any studios that were shut down, and THQ corporate...presumably everyone else is keeping their jobs, or as likely to keep their jobs as they would under Clearlake, anyways.)
Ergo it is not in the best interests of the creditors to keep the company together if it is worth more separately.
Stabilization of the company is not anyone's goal. it is damage mitigation, pure and simple.
If Clearlake had bought the entirety of THQ for $60m, there isn't any guarantee that they wouldn't shut down or sell off portions of it at a later date, anyways, outside of the word of THQ and Clearlake, and the word of THQ is worth about negative-$120m dollars, so I wouldn't put much faith into it.
It sucks for everyone affected by this, but let's not pretend that the blame lies anywhere outside of THQ's corporate governance. Those mean creditors didn't cost anyone their jobs - 6 years of Brian Farrell's executive team reducing their stock from $35/share to 10 cents a share through repeated failures to navigate the games industry successfully cost them those jobs. There have been literally two dozen studios shut down by THQ prior to their bankruptcy in the last 6 years, and they've been laying people off by the several-hundreds for the past two years.
I could not say this better.
I worked for THQ for close to 6 years and still remember how it felt to see sign after sign that your studio could be next on the chopping block, only to barely survive for another round. I also remember the added anxiety felt knowing that a title we were working on was either going to extend or reduce the publisher's life cycle including several of its top studios. It's bad enough when you think your own studio is on its last leg but when you consider how you could affect other studios like Vigil, Volition, and Relic for example, the pressure magnifies. I'm just so sorry to see that it had to play out like this.
Ok I've rambled enough. Best of luck to all of you and for any artists still seeking positions, please send me a pm if the idea of living in San Fran and working on the Call of Duty franchise sounds enticing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI2AHazFypE
http://kotaku.com/5979685/rumor-the-studio-behind-epic-mickey-is-in-trouble?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow
http://www.crytek.com/news/crytek-arrives-in-america-with-new-studio-in-austin-texas
Relic put all that blood and sweat and cash into getting it back, and now it's getting ripped out of their hands again.
If somebody buys up Homeworld and fraks it up, there will be hell to pay...
Creditors = banksters bringing the world to it's knees with a smile. I hate it when creative companies get shafted by these parasites and life goes on regardless for these greedy fucks.
Good luck to all THQ employees !!!
pete
But then we've already been over this so i'll just say...
A possible reason is that Vigil was in the beginning stages of a new game which meant at least a year and a half (probably more) of expenses before they'd have whoever picked them up would see any revenue. In other words, a massive investment on a new IP which sadly isn't as enticing as something like Company of Heroes which is almost finished. At least that's according to other devs I've talked to, there are probably more reasons.
I hate to see Vigil shut, I loved Darksiders and want to see what happens next