5 Things The Tell Me You're Not Professional.
A friend of mine showed me this gem. It's not from a site that I would imagine Polycounters resource normally, but those with compositing/editing experience have likely been here before. Anyway; It's an insightful vid that covers important topics for anyone who's a professional in the entertainment industry, or otherwise.
[ame="
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzDgNlugrwU"]Chat On Professionalism - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzDgNlugrwU"]Chat On Professionalism - YouTube[/ame]
Replies
Thanks for posting this, Elijah.
And yeah I hate people that rag on others and their ability to make themselves look better. Hate that. And false humility is the most annoying thing to have to deal with in the workplace; very very energy draining to be around indeed.
It works well for us....
His point on 'timidness' is good, but not 100% accurate. There is a difference between being more quiet and humble and being someone who doesn't actively engage in development (both games and their personal/professional lives). I also disagree that shy people get nothing and that is what they deserve. I feel like that is what the current culture of loud extroverted everything tries to make it seem like. People work and think differently.
Yea a bit of an introvert here lol.
I also want to mention that his point on False Humility. I think for some people it's false for sure. For others, it's just low self esteem. Say someone went through high school and college and was bullied or piled on and maybe mom and dad weren't supportive. They will be use to apologizing for everything because that kept them from being beat up. Once they hit that first job their natural instinct is going to be to apologize or minimize everything because that is what kept them from getting hit or they honestly believe their work has no worth.
/rant
Seemed very self centered but yea:
1. Attitude (negativity)
2. Critic/Being a douche (talking bad about everyone)
3. Timiditty (lol)Being timid and accepting everything
4. Communication (closing/handling the situations)
5. Money (scared to ask)
His comments
@ 14:15 gets to the point of the whole video and could have been 30 seconds and lol not 15 minutes.
I agree with you here. Being very emotional/shy is something very common with creative people and is something you cannot just "fake or get rid off".
I've learned that socializing is a skill. And like all skills, it takes practice to get better. Someone people are born with a skill to talk and be charismatic, and others need time to work on it. But his point is very spot on: Throwing yourself out there as someone with a positive attitude and is reliable will ultimately will help you in the end. When someone says "we need xyz done", they'll remember the people who are easily approachable and are proactive in problem solving. The shy person who always keeps to him or herself will get overlooked more often. This is the basis of opportunity, networking, and advancement in nearly any industry. It's not that shy people can't succeed, it's just harder.
If you find yourself as shy and find it difficult to socialize, one thing I can recommend is to force yourself into situations where you are bombarded with scenarios that force you to talk with people. Work a booth at a trade show, go to speed dating, volunteer at a fair, whatever opportunity you can find available. While the first few times will suck, you'll easily become more comfortable speaking with others, be able to improvise on different responses and personality types, and so on. As someone who really had a hard time socializing as a kid & young adult, these things helped me greatly.
I agree with Rurouni Strife on the point of "timiditty".
But watching this makes me feel like i don't wana work with him lol. He sounds like a very self-centred person.
This article will fit this thread like a glove.
Damn, next time I see one of those "I want to work in games but I can't find a job and I have the same two items in my portfolio with no intention of updating it" Threads I'm going to simply link to that article.
Yeah, this is a great one. The Glengarry Glen Ross vid suites reality very well, it's almost like the men are being yelled at by the entire business world rather than just one guy.
The other things are whatever. If someone is shy, that's who they are. If they are poor communicators, that can get annoying...but as long as they're not a douche about it, I'm patient and understanding. Being positive is great...but honestly, it's not always butterflies and flowers every single day. It's a grind and it's human nature to feel negative at times. I believe being negative all the time, however, is something that goes deeper than what's on the surface for most. Take time to actually talk with a person who is always negative, and you might understand where they're coming from and why they're so negative. I've met plenty of people like this and 9 times out of 10, they're kool as shit but just got burned in life somehow and someway.
I'll expand on $!nz summary a bit...
Negativity is draining, it drains you and others around you. Anyone can be marry sunshine when things are good but what type of person are you when shit gets rough?
Do you whine and make things harder for other people or does shit roll off your back, you dig in and get the job done?
Do you talk behind other peoples backs when they aren't around, chances are you will do it to me and I don't want to work with that.
People who are scared to create, tear others work apart. If they can't lift themselves up they tear other people down. You see this in BS critiques on this board all the time. If its a valid critique roll with it, if its just needless negative BS because the loser would rather rip apart something rather than build something of his own then ignore it.
Timidity is not only hard to deal with in a group setting but it can stunt your personal growth. "Well I didn't give it my all and if I did it would be WAY better". It's not going to kill you, get up and do better. That's how anyone becomes awesome at anything.
If you're too scared of getting knocked down then don't bother standing up. Don't half stand up and use that as an excuse as to why you where knocked down so easily. "If I really stood up you couldn't knock me over but I'm never going to stand up so you'll never know how awesome I am..."
In short: Don't qualify your work, do your best and take your lumps if they are coming to you. Fix it and move on.
Don't leave people hanging, they are insecure and riddled with self doubt most of the time and think the worst, even when you're just too busy drop them a line saying so.
But if they where pros... wouldn't they be able to handle it?
Whatever, communicate clearly and concisely.
This links back to communicating but also factors into money.
Good Fast or Cheap, a basic tenant of project management.
I like to think of it as you get 100% to split among 3 things. Depending on the persons priorities you divide it up how they need.
Fast 33% Cheap 33% Good 33% (1% goes to you ripping your hair out because this is next to impossible)
Fast 50% Cheap 50% Good 00% (going to suck)
Fast 50% Cheap 00% Good 50% (not going to be cheap)
He also brings up the issue of starting up and doing favors for friends. He says friends get a friend card and they can apply that to one of those things. Let them know what to expect based on their priorities, often they expect all three and that just isn't ever going to be reasonable nor will it keep you employed.
Mark when you explain it, it sounds much better to me. You're saying "don't be a wuss" while I took that section of his video as "don't be a quieter person".
Yeah it's funny how that works. If everyone was perfect like this guy, the world would be a boring place.
Not sure that's what he mean at all... I think he was going more for 'don't be a simpering dis-ingenious twit'. I agree with him. Having to be around people who go on about how shit they are all day, despite the fact that they don't believe that one bit, is exhausting.
You should always strive to do your best.
never seen this. thanks.
He didn't say anything about an individual as a person, he was talking about a individual as a worker. Like it or not; Some day you will have to move out of your patents' basement and wear some form of mask to earn a living, Ark. He didn't attack you or who you are.
Shyness and what this guy is talking about are two completely different qualities. He speaks of this. Shyness is genuine, and fine
Figurative 'your' of course.
Yes I do feel offended by what he's trying to say. Because I'm quite a shy/introverted person irl, doesn't mean I don't get on with people irl, or work any less harder than someone is more open and social.
Not that he understands shyness or shy people anyways makes he point on that valid.
Edit: After reading the above posts, well if that's what he's really saying then it didn't translate to well and should have used a better word. Not that I still fully agree.
No, he's saying that shy/quiet people are less able to effectively communicate their ideas, thoughts and criticisms. Which makes you a less effective worker. Which is imo completely correct.
People who are vocal with their opinions and criticisms, and proactive about getting stuff done (aka taking the first step, approaching people about unknown problems etc) are valuable. People who find it difficult to do those things, are less valuable.
Yeah hence he's trying to tell you to change your personality if you wanna be his version of the perfect worker.
Has anyone been fired for being shy? Do shy people not get promotions?
On the other end of the stick, someone could be vocal all day and speak a load of nonsense because that's their personality and were left in the same situation.
Yeah shy people are generally more reserved and id say are better listeners, but I'm sure someone who is shy would still speak up in the circumstances he states and the shyness wouldn't stop someone from having their say.
I also think you're mixing up introvert with shyness.
There is a difference between choosing to be silent, taking your time to formulate your thoughts and speak at opportune times and being shut down and incapacitated by shyness, completely unable to articulate what you need to, when you need to.
Shy people can end up on the "do not work with again" list because at certain times they can't function. When you hire someone you need them to do their job and not shut down because they can only handle conversations with 2 close friends not 4 complete strangers. If you're going to set up contracts and meet with clients you need to be able to function around strangers. If not, then you either need to grow in that direction or find a dependable desk job with a steady stream of work where you can avoid eye contact.
This video goes over the difference between the two.
Quite: The Power of Introverts EP1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ar1kEN_ZPNM
I'm an introvert, I crave alone time to think, tinker and create. I don't mind speaking up or voicing my opinion when I think its important but I recharge my batteries by being alone instead of being the life of a party. That's not to say I don't like parties but I find them draining rather than refreshing.
I've managed over shy people and it does make thing hard. That's not to say they aren't talented or creative but it can present some challenges.
They can be drowning on a task and never speak up so you constantly have to check in and make sure things are alright, even then they might choose to deflect possible "conflict" and tell you things are fine when they aren't. Then all hell breaks loose when a deadline pops up.
They may not want to ask questions so they start to assume things rather than confirm details. Which can lead to a lot of rework because they guessed wrong.
They might have a valuable point of view or a really good eye for certain things but you'll have to ask them later privately outside of a meeting because they won't be able to articulate it in front of other people. Which makes it really hard to have creative discussions and work on things in a group.
Have you ever worked with a shy person?
Do you feel they are less important to the team/workplace because they don't speak as much as everyone else?
Maybe some just don't get it because there not shy themselves and have a different personality that maybe thinks people who are shy are weird and anti-social?
I agree that that more outspoken, outgoing, social and confident people will get ahead as opposed to somone who is an amazing artist but has zero social skills and doesnt know how to talk to people. there is no way this person is ever going to have the capacity to be a lead, hold meetings or tell people tough news or harsh critiques.
There is nothing wrong with being shy for the most part, until it becomes weird and awkward to socialize with that person. and im sure most of you have worked with someone in the game industry who is just fucking wierd and uncomfortable to socialize with becuase they just dont know proper social ques or how to interact with people due to never getting out from their parents basement or leaving the computer.
I used to be a bit shy and after feeling awkward or weird in some situations, decided to work on fixing the things i didnt like about my personality. I started going out 4-5 nights a week, hittin up bars, clubs, events in town, festivals, going for drinks after work with teammates i didnt know too well etc.
I also started to work on my social skills with women by forcing myself to go out and approach girls at bars and clubs and start conversations with a total stranger or groups of guys and girls I didnt know.
After a couple months of putting in some hard work, going out consistently and broadening my life way beyond the computer and 3d art, I noticed shit starting to change. It wasnt awkward interacting with strangers on my team, I felt 100x more confident and self assured, I was seeing multiple girls and getting laid pretty much any time I wanted, and all this transferred to my professional life. I voiced my opinon way more often at work, dont let people get away with bullshit and feel much more happy in general.
This is a bit of a side tanget from the whole point of the video i suppose and more a focus on timidness/social awkwardness/shyness but its somethign i think really needs to be brought up from time to time in this industry.
Trust me, working on social skills will reaaaaaaly help you in job interviews, if you can leave them with the impression you are not a weirdo and just a chill person who is passionate about the job but can also go for a beer with after work it will help you immensley. I wouldnt want to work with an insanley talented artist who says 2 words a day and wonder if they are gonna come in shooting one day. Id much rather work with a good artist who cracks jokes, talks about shit besides 3d and art, and can have a shit ton of fun with at the company xmas party.
the biggest words of advice i would give someone with a solid portfolio "thats cool, now get out of the house and do something interesting besides 3d, get cool hobbies and socialize. a lot."
change can be painful, awkward and discouraging but if you want it enough and are willing to get your elbows in the mud and put in the effort its extremely worth it. you have to want it though. the most successful people in the industry I have met and know are super talented at what they do but also can speak up and be heard.
hope this isnt too harsh, not attacking anyone in particular just tossing out my opion
Its the crippling apprehension and anxiety that makes it difficult to work around. It's the shyness that makes it hard to do the business side of freelancing in FX. It's not some cute quirk that doesn't effect anything, it can effect a persons performance on a job and it can effect the overall company.
Certain people should not be in certain roles if they can't handle the job duties. He is advising people who want to be in certain positions to get over their shyness because it will hold them back and make it harder for other people to work with them. It doesn't make them worthless or untalented, it just means they would be better suited in a role that doesn't have them doing those things. One look at the guy and you know he is speaking from experience. He was there, it held him back and he worked hard to get over and now things are easier.
Often times a solution can be found if the group stays positive and doesn't get bogged down in negative sniping.
Introverts don't shy away from people, they simply want to know that the people around them are OK with them being around, and recognize them.
Introverts also don't like extroverts, since Extro's tend to rely on the humor and energy of other people to be active.
Here is what I mean:
As you can see, being Shy =/= Introvert. Infact, I think the person in the video used the wrong term, he simply meant to say people that aren't active in their workplace are the ones that will be most of the time cause for issue, and didn't realize that most people associate Shy with Introverts with, which in itself is wrong since both of these attributes don't correlate one with another.
Also, your stereotype of 'people who don't talk are good listeners' is a bunch of bollocks, since I had plenty of shy friends who within 5 minutes for a conversation couldn't remember what the argument was in the first place.
I myself am an introvert, and once I get the ball rolling with strangers (get an idea of what their belief is, work, married or not, etc) and know that they're OK with me and don't see me as a third wheel, I communicate with them more effectively.
Seriously, you're getting all worked up over a video that used 1 single term in the wrong way, and proceed to create guide-lines about people yourself. The video was a gist, and idea, a concept, it's not meant to be taken 1:1 literally, and that exactly what you're doing, which just shows that you yourself aren't a listener or a thinker.
Now if you personally don't like the guy (I personally don't like him, his demeanor and somewhat fragmented argument is abit broken frankly, and his quick-uncomfortable jokes didn't no favors) that's a different story altogether, and that has not to do with the 'core' idea of his talk.
the problem is that every lead and supervisor is different, and has a different personality.
i have had to work with some really bad supervisors and leads. people who got gifted there positions because they are friends with the owners, leads who are nasty syncline psychopaths who want to drive the other artists into the ground. and the supervisor wants the project run that way and encourages them.
so as an artist you have to be just as good at reading people and deciding if you want to work with that sort of supervisor or not. some times its probably better to leave then deal with a dysfunctional environment.
if your 'assertive' with an insecure negative power tripper they will take it as a threat and attack you. some people are egotistical control freaks and want you to fear them and never say a word so you don't threaten there position.
if your not 'overly assertive' and 'negative' about unrealistic workloads with a supervisor who is a quiet type or has no idea what there doing then you end up taking way longer then the schedule to get things done and going in directions that the creative director did not really want so you have to redo things over and over .
so you really can't just make a list like that. also every studio has a different culture. and a different etiquette that is considered 'normal' good attitude. if you ever work with that guy that's probably a good list. but there are other people that are totally different. also there is a big difference between what people 'say' they want and how those same people actually react to what they say they want.
So one minute shy people don't talk at all and when they do they have bad memories?
I said generally speaking since they quiet an all, there still involved in the conversation, just more on a receiving note.
Thanks for making preconceptions about me because the video is so confusing and full of mistakes it makes it hard to see his points.
It has nothing to do with hating the guy, although the stuff he says in this video don't make me like him anymore.
He talked about "shyness" as if it's the most negative thing. Well think about, people who socialize too much can be a problem too - constant distractions, them not being able to hit deadlines, etc.
"Suck as a human being". Said it as if everything about an individual is set in stone. There are 2 sides to the curve. It's like saying "there are people who are born shy and those who are born professionals and nothing in between exists". Nobody is born a particular way, it's the way he or she was raised in a particular society that makes them who they are; their culture. If you can find a common language with people, it won't matter if they are shy or lack some quality, you'll be able to work things out with them and they will respect you for that.
Also, funny how he mentioned about being too critical to other people while he's the one criticizing everybody into his own little "category of people I would not work with".
Not going to write a novel on this since this is my personal opinion so don't feel the need to lash out on me for the sake of standing up for this guy. He makes some good points too.
if more real professionals who care more about the craft(rather than the craftsman's personality) acted like him and followed a corporate mediocrity guideline then there would be no companies like Apple of Microsoft and people like Steve Jobs would never work with people like Steve Wozniak. it would be a boring world indeed if everyone changed their personality to blend in.
Yes it holds them back from getting noticed and from getting promoted. Yes I'd prefer to work with people that are less awkward to talk to. Yes I think you should try to change your personality if you want to be successful (if your job requires social skills at all).