#1ReasonWhy Movement
RIOT Games
hey! i haven't seen this posted anywhere on here yet, but i'm sure some of you guys have noticed the #1reasonwhy hashtag on twitter. overnight lots of women (and men) started sharing their stories of the issues they've had to deal with, and what they've seen happen to others. even though it's pretty sad reading some of these stories, (especially the ones where some girls mention they're too scared to even try because they've seen others bashed for it), it's really amazing to see so many people come together and support each other.
what's really great about it is that it started a #1reasonmentors movement with lots of artists, designers, programmers, and other game industry people come out and open their doors to help. it also spawned a #1reasontobe with people giving their reasons why they love the industry so much and how it's worth it
if you have a moment, check out some of these articles:
#1ReasonWhy - The night Twitter took on the industry's sexism
#1ReasonWhy there are not more women in the gaming industry
Gaming's Women Raise Sexism Awareness With #1reasonwhy Movement on Twitter
Here’s a Devastating Account of the Crap Women in the Games Business Have to Deal With. In 2012.
And Here’s Why Women In The Games Business Put Up With So Much Crap
Women in Gaming Tweet About Sexist Industry With #1reasonwhy (check out the slide show, some of those are terrible)
The Female Perspective in Game Development (a really good point about female/male perspectives from the lead writer of dragon age)
#1ReasonWhy We Are All Responsible
here are some #1reasonwhy tweets that are being posted:
"Because our lead designer used to yell about there being "a vagina in the room" and nobody called him on it, boss included. #1reasonwhy"
"#1reasonwhy Once heard an Art manager say 'We don't need any more women, they're more trouble than they're worth' as he viewed applications"
"I'm ashamed to admit I've also been conditioned to be critical of my fellow females in the industry just because of their sex #1reasonwhy"
"#1reasonwhy: Because gamers assumed I was a 'booth babe' at a games convention, and always asked my male colleague the "serious" questions."
"I wish I wasn't almost too scared to post this. Here's my #1reasonwhy: http://alivetinyworld.com/2012/11/27/too-many-reasons-why/"
"None of my women developer friends will read comments on interviews they do, because the comments are so brutally nasty. #1reasonwhy"
"My looks are often commented on long before the work I've done. #1reasonwhy"
"Because once I've been told "we don't need women in order to know what female players want from this industry" #1reasonwhy"
"Being told that the only reason you got into the game industry was to find a husband and settle down. #1reasonwhy"
"GDC every year for me is assuming I'm PR or I'm the girlfriend of the dude I'm standing next to #1ReasonWhy"
here are some #1reasontobe tweets that are being posted :
"#1reasontobe Because most men in the industry are accepting/inclusive/supportive. Don't let the bad apples dissuade you from going for it."
"#1reasontobe Games are the most inspiring and imaginative projects you will ever work on, with the most creative people"
"My #1reasontobe is meeting and working with inspiring people and creating things that bring joy to others - the games industry is my home
"
"Because no one is going to take my dream away. #1reasontobe"
"I believe stories are how we survive the tough stuff, and I want to help people tell those stories. #1reasontobe"
"Because I know I will make a difference, and I have more people supporting me than in my way. #1reasontobe"
"Because I have dreamed of doing this since I was old enough to know what an RPG was. #1reasontobe"
also there are some pretty hateful things being said on the gamer side too, i don't know how many of you guys ever checked out fat, ugly, or slutty, but it's a site where ladies post the rude messages they get from other gamers, which some are prettttttty bad: http://fatuglyorslutty.com/
tags:
#1reasonwhy
#1reasontobe
#1reasonmentors
mini mentor list
polycount is a pretty amazing community, so i thought i should share this here to spread the word. a few years back i didn't even know this was an issue and i have friends that have worked in the industry for years and never knew this was happening, so i thought i'd share and hope something good comes out of all of this
i'm still doing a lot of learning myself, but if anyone needs help -character wise, message me. i'm all for this mentoring/helping each other out thing
what's really great about it is that it started a #1reasonmentors movement with lots of artists, designers, programmers, and other game industry people come out and open their doors to help. it also spawned a #1reasontobe with people giving their reasons why they love the industry so much and how it's worth it
if you have a moment, check out some of these articles:
#1ReasonWhy - The night Twitter took on the industry's sexism
#1ReasonWhy there are not more women in the gaming industry
Gaming's Women Raise Sexism Awareness With #1reasonwhy Movement on Twitter
Here’s a Devastating Account of the Crap Women in the Games Business Have to Deal With. In 2012.
And Here’s Why Women In The Games Business Put Up With So Much Crap
Women in Gaming Tweet About Sexist Industry With #1reasonwhy (check out the slide show, some of those are terrible)
The Female Perspective in Game Development (a really good point about female/male perspectives from the lead writer of dragon age)
#1ReasonWhy We Are All Responsible
here are some #1reasonwhy tweets that are being posted:
"Because our lead designer used to yell about there being "a vagina in the room" and nobody called him on it, boss included. #1reasonwhy"
"#1reasonwhy Once heard an Art manager say 'We don't need any more women, they're more trouble than they're worth' as he viewed applications"
"I'm ashamed to admit I've also been conditioned to be critical of my fellow females in the industry just because of their sex #1reasonwhy"
"#1reasonwhy: Because gamers assumed I was a 'booth babe' at a games convention, and always asked my male colleague the "serious" questions."
"I wish I wasn't almost too scared to post this. Here's my #1reasonwhy: http://alivetinyworld.com/2012/11/27/too-many-reasons-why/"
"None of my women developer friends will read comments on interviews they do, because the comments are so brutally nasty. #1reasonwhy"
"My looks are often commented on long before the work I've done. #1reasonwhy"
"Because once I've been told "we don't need women in order to know what female players want from this industry" #1reasonwhy"
"Being told that the only reason you got into the game industry was to find a husband and settle down. #1reasonwhy"
"GDC every year for me is assuming I'm PR or I'm the girlfriend of the dude I'm standing next to #1ReasonWhy"
here are some #1reasontobe tweets that are being posted
:"#1reasontobe Because most men in the industry are accepting/inclusive/supportive. Don't let the bad apples dissuade you from going for it."
"#1reasontobe Games are the most inspiring and imaginative projects you will ever work on, with the most creative people"
"My #1reasontobe is meeting and working with inspiring people and creating things that bring joy to others - the games industry is my home
""Because no one is going to take my dream away. #1reasontobe"
"I believe stories are how we survive the tough stuff, and I want to help people tell those stories. #1reasontobe"
"Because I know I will make a difference, and I have more people supporting me than in my way. #1reasontobe"
"Because I have dreamed of doing this since I was old enough to know what an RPG was. #1reasontobe"
also there are some pretty hateful things being said on the gamer side too, i don't know how many of you guys ever checked out fat, ugly, or slutty, but it's a site where ladies post the rude messages they get from other gamers, which some are prettttttty bad: http://fatuglyorslutty.com/
tags:
#1reasonwhy
#1reasontobe
#1reasonmentors
mini mentor list
polycount is a pretty amazing community, so i thought i should share this here to spread the word. a few years back i didn't even know this was an issue and i have friends that have worked in the industry for years and never knew this was happening, so i thought i'd share and hope something good comes out of all of this
i'm still doing a lot of learning myself, but if anyone needs help -character wise, message me. i'm all for this mentoring/helping each other out thing
Replies
Though, it's interested to see this, because all the stories I hear aren't that girls cant do it, or that they don't belong in the industry. I fully support women in the industry, and they should have every single right that men have. But what I hear is that a lot of studios will hire women purely because they are women, not because they are the most qualified. Tax breaks and that sort of shit. And stuff like that is what sort of worries me about this. Yes, I fully support the motion behind it, and I fully agree that something has to be done about it. But, that being said, I think this also has the potential to swing it to the other extreme, where women are getting jobs not because they are the most qualified, but because they are female. I find equality to be an extremely fine line. Every person deserves an equal chance whether you're male or female. But that's exactly it. An EQUAL chance. The person that is most qualified should be there.
But all that shit about looking down on women who are in the industry, and that they should just keep quiet? If I ever hear someone say that at a job, I'm punching them in the face, cause that is BS.
Same! Though I think I was just totally oblivious to it. I would chuckle at some of the sexist jokes and laugh when someone joked about me being out of the kitchen. I just took it all as a joke, but over the last couple of years, I have been realising that there are some people that actually have a sexist view, even if it is sub concious. It needs to get out there that any form of sexisim on either side is a very serious and sensitive issue and should be treated with respect and mature thought.
Also, Jacque! That quote! So spot on hahahahah!
KateC: yeah that would be really discouraging to hear because it wouldn't be fixing the problem, it would be ignoring it, and i know we are better than that ^___^
Jacque! that quote is so spot on! x2 i'm actually a huge psychological thriller movie fan, so if i can mash that with a nice hack and slash and some awesome well-thought-out-lore, i'd be ridiculously excited
slipsius: i'm the only girl in my studio (here in texas, we have another one in LA) and i work with some amazing guys, none of them have ever said anything rude and all my art directors treat me like they treat anyone else, so i feel really lucky.
i completely agree with you about studios hiring girls just because they're girls, and i'm against that, it's all about skills and how well you get along with the team, and not because you're born an XX or an XY
but sadly i've talked to handful of friends at different studios, and they've all seen under qualified female artists being hired solely because they're girls, or someone with pull likes them, and that's so not right. same goes for guys too, 1, it's not fair, 2, i don't want to have to redo their work every time because they don't know how to, it's super unfair to the team
Steph: yeah i think most guys joke about it in a friendly way (like the kitchen and sandwich type of thing XD), and i'm fine with that, but like you said, when they actually have sexiest views and remark on them, that's an issue and it should be taken care of maturely on both sides. though it seems some people don't want to speak up because they're scared they'll look weak and will get harassed more >__<
Kwramm: there are so many amazing eastern female (and male) artists it's crazy, i'm always looking at their work. and yeah i think i see more women in the admin roles than i do in actual art roles, hopefully that will change and we can get more of them making art and animating and programming and stuff
How come some of these ladies were OK with (in some cases going as far) groping in the studio and didn't say anything about it, and are only coming out about it now? I thought the entire point of having Human Resource team was tackle issues like these, is Sexism so inherently ingrained in the culture of game dev that women cannot even complain something or having meeting in a studio without losing their job about these matters?!
FOR FUCKS SAKE! You got groped in a studio and couldn't complain about it? IN GAME DEV! Not even Japanese porn is that broken with it's system! Talk about mental!
I mean what the hell, I'm sure there is some complicated thing going on, but if I made a sexist joke, all my colleague would need to tell me is tone it down plox, and it would be done non-the brainier, but from what I'm reading, that wasn't the case, some of them were even outright harassed even when they were told face to face in private to tone it down?
It's pretty fucked that on many levels if all of this true to the degree that I'm reading.
Maybe so, and TellTales Walking Dead could the point of that, but just like with any other Theory or Stat, you have to put the Metal to the test.
I have played plenty of games which are all about the psychological base-line of the character and people around it, and all of them blew goats in more areas then one, so unless we get something that does what it does well, I don't think we will get anywhere with their subject matter.
I think the only games I played which even got a fraction of that right was some old Japanese/Buddhism game back in the Windows NT era, but I'm sure more girls would like to play L4D with their friends rather then a game where they explore the inner sanctum of human nature.
There is a reason interactive movies are dead and games are confined.
Lots of women in producer & admin roles over here too, at least on the MMO side of things.
This is a widespread problem in sexual harassment in general. There is tremendous cultural pressure against sexual harassment claims -- haven't you been involved with threads here on polycount where people found it very easy to assume a woman was just crying wolf, or over-exaggerating, or creating a double standard? It is VERY fucked up that women feel that way, and very widespread.
It's possible they did, and they're just referring to the incident as an example. 140 characters isn't a whole lot of space to get into details.
I can't say that it isn't a problem here. But when it happens and it's reported, heads roll.
I'll stop reading so many of these and look at the positive ones, now.
Anywho, I think one reason there are more females working in games abroad is that games are one of the few major paths for art in some other countries. In the US I think the film industry is generally a more appealing path to take, and when I was at the CTN animation expo, that certainly was my observation.
But yea, I never really understood the frat mentality some game developers seem to have. It's kind of the same with racist jokes too. Sure, that may be okay to say to your friend or something, but if I'm not your friend then that's probably not the best way to endear yourself to me. :poly124:
There are way more young women on the game path these days than in the past though. I hope it's only a matter of time.
Having said that I certainly support this movement. The name of it doesnt really reflect the cause though, I was initially confused.
I'm really glad so many people on PC are supportive of #1ReasonWhy... Reading many of the comments about it on news sites today is making me feel a bit sick to see all the dismissive and angry responses from too many gamers and developers.
I wouldn't let comments like that get you down.
I don't do any of that xbox stuff so, yea I'm not in that category of "man" anyway.
Supporting, good for you gals take over and lets see what happens to the world then.
They even say it's hilarious so just echoing their words, just fyi.
But over all if your getting groped ladies open your mouth about it no matter if you loose your job, unless it's not that big of a deal because well your letting it happen if you don't say anything, right?
If you get any type of comments that result in a form of sexual harassment no matter the size press charges even things like "looking good today", call the cops. You got all this power and don't use it that's your own fault for allowing it to happen. I don't take shit from anyone(cause I respect myself) why are you? It's also amazing how men don't make websites about what woman do or create movements, I guess we are the lower species of human, but I am a bitter man when it comes to woman anyway so you can ignore all this, just been my experience.
Well... thanks for that then, I guess.
It does kind of get that way in here at times.
As I see it, a lot of it isn't so much outwardly misogynistic or overtly sexist comments but a lot of smaller things here and there that come together into a pervasive feeling of being, at best, a big sausage party. For example things like the "beautiful women" thread and some of the comments that appear there or the occasional salacious comments that might appear in a Hazardous thread. Even the focus on hyper idealised female characters and anatomy has to have some effect. This isn't to say any one of those things are bad necessarily, just that they all add to the boys club feeling. I think pretty much the same things can be said for many game developers.
That's the perspective of a male though, so make of it what you will.
I disagree. We might get at each others throats occasionally but that is a million million miles away from the barely cohesive, ignorant, hateful, poisonous bullshit you see on youtube. :thumbup:
And yeah s!nz you seem to be projecting some stuff you need to sort out personally...
Just visited fatuglyorslutty. I like how they also display usernames, hope they get trolled out of it.
EDIT: On second thoughts, XBL staff should watch that site and give out some bans. After investigation/PM checking of course, we all know what a little photoshop can do
I felt a bit sick with trepidation seeing this topic pop up here, to be honest, because I'd be so disappointed if it turned out to be as full of stupid shitty comments as I've seen elsewhere. So far so awesome though, I shouldn't have doubted PC
You're putting the cart before the horse. You say girls don't post because of some supposed machismo, but maybe it seems like that because not as many ladies post?
Oh and saying its down to testosterone is pretty derogatory, we have formed our opinions, different as they may be, by living on this planet for many a year. Granted, for some of the younger posters an excess of testosterone might be a factor ;P
I mean it's not surprising as polycount IS heavily male-dominated, and I'm not saying 'grr you guys should stop liking pictures of women' because that would be dumb. But maybe we as a community could think for a minute about why the games industry, and specifically our discipline, is so very full of dudes and has so few women.
I think it's important in this kind of discussion to point out that saying 'many women have bad experiences working in the games industry' is not an attack on guys. It is not, specifically, your individual faults - although, obviously, if you think sexist attitudes or harassment happens in your company then it rather behoves you to do something about it. But simply because you are the dominant majority tends to create this exclusionary atmosphere without anyone even intending to, and saying 'hey maybe it'd be nice for more women to work here too' doesn't mean that it's your fault that they don't already. I just want to head off some of the defensive backlash that tends to accompany discussion of these issues by saying I'm not blaming you.
Also, some girls just don't know how to handle being teased (just as some guys don't). But, since games is a fun work envirornment, there will be teasing, and joking around. Yes, its still a workplace, so you should be respectful, but turning the industry into an "office setting" where you don't talk or joke and what not would just be wrong. I think some guys definitely take it too far, and you need to know the person you are teasing likes it, or is your friend. Obviouisly you shouldn't be teasing the new girl on her first day. Make sure shes comfortable first. my coworker loved when we started teasing her because for the longest time, all the guys ignored that cause they didn't want to offend her. So once we started, she felt like she fit in more, since we all tease each other as well. guys get teased. girls get teased. Girls just tend to take it to heart a little more than guys do (not always, but generally speaking). and no, im not talking about groping and saying their opinion doesnt count. That stuff is completely wrong.
There are definitely legit concerns, and legit complaints. But some of it is just some girls cant handles a bunch of guys.
Now, on the topic of polycount.... Yes, there are penis tanks and all that shit. But, I dont think anyone can say we're sexist as a whole. If a female posts on these forums, and makes it known they are a female, they get SOOOO many more useful comments than guys. Polycount overall wants to see every female succeed, and if you paid attention to it, you`d see it.
I'd only add that feminization (is there such a word anyway?) is a process - it will take time. We cannot just throw away our gender heritage just like that, but I believe that with time the roles of both sexes in society will blend more and more, it is happening if you like it or not. Same thing applies to polycount - and providing most people here seem to be really swell - it will come naturally.
Also I feel/hope that those sad occurences of harrasment are minority. Here 20-25% of our staff are women and everything is more than fine if you'd ask me. The atmosphere is reaaaly easy and sometimes guys get a little debonair, but I'm still to see any sign that anyone is not comfortable with this, everyone just have a good laugh together.
SEXISM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yup! Yet no one complains about it cause its helping. Which is why I said earlier that equality is a fine line
Yup encouraging a more diverse work place and industry is the opposite of sexism.
on the subject of why there aren't a lot of women in our industry, aside from all the issues that have been tweeted about, there seriously aren't as many girls wanting to go into games -as say film, or animated movies. i knew more girls in college that wanted to work for disney, pixar, dreamworks, than them wanting to work in games, and most of them played games, but they just didn't love the method of interactive storytelling or the restrictions in art (tri count/texture size stuff), and i can understand that, each their own. i do think more girls are getting interested in game art and when they put their minds to it, they will get the job
also polycount is a fantastic place, lots of super awesome open minded artists and there are always great topics up for discussion, but i'm more of a lurker than a poster and that's due to my own nature, nothing to do with testosterone flow :P
Slipsius, I don't think polycount users tend to be misogynistic, but there's a strong undercurrent of mild sexism in polycount posts. Again, this is largely a product of a 'boys club' environment, and I can't imagine any of us guys would be dicks to women based on their gender, but little subtle things seep into the culture that could be improved upon.
Of course, individual female posters can just be tough and ignore it -- it certainly isn't that bad here and obviously adults can handle a few attitudes they don't agree with -- but why not make an effort to make polycount as outwardly welcoming to women as it is to men?
Utter off-hand dismissal of criticisms toward male-centric threads, general skepticism or outright negativity about women-centric subjects (such as the 'tropes in videogames' thread,) the occasional nasty attitude about a female poster (I've had at least one conversation on a g+ where I argued with a poster over whether a very talented female artist here was getting so much attention just because she was a girl)...
These are by no means great evils being carried out by polycount posters, but being sensitive to the fact that in some subtle ways our actions create a hostile or negative environment toward female posters and making some steps to address that can go a long way.
As an addendum: I've obviously got no first-hand experience of how sexist environments and hostile workplaces feel to women, I think pretty much every poster here knows I'm a male, but if any of you have ever had a friend or a sister or a girlfriend who wants to be a programmer, or a fantasy artist, or an athlete, or work in any other traditionally masculine field, it'd do you good to watch and listen what they go through. I haven't known any women who make a huge point to highlight or talk about the struggles they go through in fields like these, because, again, they are adults and they can handle it -- but women certainly have to accept dealing with a LOT more resistance than men do, even in 2012, and that's the kindof thing it's worth making a serious effort to change.
ONE LAST EDIT: Slipsius, teasing and jabbing is fine, but jokes that rest on a tapestry of oppression and sexual violence (ie, jokes objectifying women or cute jokes about sexism and gender roles) are very fucked up -- plenty of women find them funny, just like plenty of people find incredibly macabre and morbid jokes funny, but it definitely isn't appropriate workplace humor to barrage a coworker with.
That quote is part of the inherent gender based inaccurate separation our society creates. I was actually surprised and a bit saddened that so many agreed with it.
Men can be just as manipulative. Women can be just as violent.
I would even go as far go say such are counter productive to creating an equality, as it makes the opppsite sex "the other" versus "us".
Anyone ever play sissyfight 2000?
I know chatting to the guys in my office we have wanted some females in the office for a while and we have collectively dialed back the ridiculous man chat quite a lot in the past few years. Hopefully when we have a lady with the right skills who wants to work with us she will feel welcome and appreciated.
The human mind sadly doesn't deal well with reality. Just look at the reaction to 9/11. People are too easily emotionally wound up because they forget the basic reality on the ground and the mathematics of large numbers.
But there's one thing these articles/twitters/etcs are doing (probably unintentionally) that concerns me. In peoples' minds it's correlating
GAME DEV = SEXISM
Yes the overwhelming majority of developers is male and by and large this will transform into a poor community for equality, but this is still really endemic for the rest of the world.
There are some sexist pricks out there and it doesn't matter what job they have, they are still going to be sexist pricks. People's ability to find understanding, and allow for tact and sensitivity needs to be global, and not just be a problem that the game industry needs to fix.
Somebody acting sexist isn't bad because they're a game developer, it's bad because they're a human being.
So there is a very good reason for me to believe that someone out there just was in a bad mood and wanted to do some damage to some peeps in an office, and started this entire discussion, before people who actually suffered the issue came through, which is pretty fucked up as you said.
Not to mention, in human conditions, it will take a 100 'This is what happened to me' posts if you want to counter a single 'I lied' post.
That's no excuse, if someone groped me (I'm guy, but go with it), I would ask for a public apology from the person in the studio, if I don't get that, I will make it well known on the internet, with names to follow.
We have sites like Kotaku which live off this stuff, even sites like Reddit, Twitter is only one of the many outlets you have for such issues which shouldn't be going unnoticed. This isn't the same levels of racism OR bigotry, in some cases this was full on physical contact.
In a certain way, this could contribute to the issues at hand, but the question is, what was done beforehand?
If someone makes a sexist joke, flying off the handle, getting the person reported, having them set on a date for meeting before they get fired doesn't promote healthy work-environment, infact it's more likely for a sexist environment to evolve.
I have seen to many cases (from schools, to workplaces) where the person being offended could have simply said "Please tone it down" would have solved everything, without having management get in and cause large wades of cash be thrown in all direction to make things go away, sometimes both parties losing their jobs.
I think I know which one you mean (the one were Notch, with his white-knight attitude jumped in) at the Pax Prime event.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119439-Notch-Tweets-Rage-Over-Minecraft-Party-Sexual-Assault
Problem is, it's kinda an extremely stupid situation on behalf of the girl. You can't blame this on Game-Dev as you said, and while the molester in this case is to blame, the girl could literally have cringed the guy's hand off, and called for security on the spot, she didn't, she let a man that action to her escape, WHY?! You don't need to think, a man just flashed you and dragged your hand on his balls, kick him in the nuts and call the cops, you don't have an excuse for being shocked, waiting 30 minutes, and then say you're shocked no one was able to stop him. Help people, so they can help you, no one can help you if you don't talk.
Frat-Mentality you say? Yeah, I suppose, but maybe it's like that because most Dev's never had that in the first place? I mean I personally don't know of mane Dev's who were in the college sports team of frat house, so maybe meeting other people who liked to play pokemon day in and out is something they crave, and hence why they create it as a frat.
You'd be surprised as to how many women (in general in the media side of things) always go with the 'sexist' outfit rather then guys. One of my friends even married his wife, and tells the story about how every other guy in the room used to try and 'tone down' the sexy costumes the one single girl in the studio used to dish out, and that they would literally have shout-out sessions back home about it, the ball swings both ways, but I get what you mean, it's just that this argument is very grey at best when large number of people have their on and off buttons.
Male characters are also considered default because a majority of people will play male, I literally lost count of the many times I heard people say "I won't play this game because the main character is female", and when you're trying to make a living, cherry picking gender of the character should the be last thing that bothers.
Look at ME for example, FemShepard is as female as you can get without breaking the bank, yet the number of FemShep's was below 20%, in my book, that's a clear case of a demographic that simply will drain too resource for too little in back, especially DLC, I'm not trying to be a prick here, but you need to realize there is a reason money plays such a big role in what gets done and how by who.
As a hairy guy, I can shout all I want about how even games like Skyrim have hairless little boys with muscles the size of cars, but no one will do anything about it, Male characters are pretty fucking douchey when it comes to serialization also, I'll be damned if I ever fucking see a Drake exploring the Desert in real-life, let alone soldiers who for some odd reason seem to be lacking little thing called actual scars rather then the pretty one eye scar that makes panties fly off faster then you can say Joseph Gordon Levitt.
Backing up here, I had one other girl in my class who taking game courses and she was a tomboy kinda character, pretty fun and no other guy in the room made her feel uneasy (she also had a boyfriend IIRC).
Halfway through, she quit, her excuse was that she already knew the basics and would develop them more on her own time and most likely will go into movies because the restriction in gaming is too technical.
So yeah, I mean don't expect to jump in an industry where people are called nerds, made fun of when they played pokemon, especially from the female gender when they're younger, and expect every individual to welcome open arms. You will get issues, you need to tackle them together early on, not wait the last minute before everything gets worse.
I honestly sometimes wonder why Louis CK is even considered comedy gold or modern age prophet when all he does is spot the same hateful pew comments that a conservative would do.
But hey, I guess being liberal and appearing on the Comedy Central will allow you do anything you want.
Fox is too busy reporting on internet pictures to do any kind of research on anything that might to 'too heavy' for them.
I read most of the stuff from the OP and I see those as personally way over the line, disgusting etc - I can't believe some of them, because they are so far over the line I couldnt fathom even saying stuff like that to a fellow female full-stop, maybe I have my parents to thank for that?
But on the flipside I'm not sorry at all that I am in the pursuit of beauty in my work.
I'm not going to stop for anyone. I do what I do, because I enjoy it.
For years all I built was big space marines and ww2 soldiers, no one ever once told me back then I should 'diversify' and 'do something else' no one ever hassled me either its just pretty much accepted. Pretty girls though?
Fucking taboo.
Well you know what, I call BULLSHIT.
If you look at my work and all you see is a sex-doll, thats your business not mine.
I never intended any of my girls to be this way. None. If you ask me about any of them, instead of taking them at face value like so many people do, you would discover that they all have intricate back stories, and all mean a great deal to me personally due to what was going on at the time in life etc.
I've spent years honing specific lines and shapes just of female torsos and faces, in an attempt to try and refine my skill. I still feel nowhere remotely close to getting where I want to be, and I will continue to pursue it until this facet of the craft is no longer appealing to me. I certainly will not be stopping because people have misinterpreted my intentions, nor do I care if people cannot forgive me for falling into the stereotypical trap due to not being a good enough artist to hit my intended goals yet.
I only share a fraction of my work online, and yet I have had people express their concerns here at polycount via PM about it, I've had people tell me I objectify women, I've had people tell me Im a pervert who likes to jack off to my own art, I've had people call me disgusting, revolting, Ive had people say that I should be banned from entering comps if I make a female, the list really goes on and on. Working on rift I even had people tell me I should be shot.
The bottom line is, you wont catch me groping women in the workplace, you wont catch me making sexist remarks or lewd comments, nor will you find me discriminating against any person regardless of their sexual orientation, beliefs, gender or race when Ive been in a position to hire, because tbh when it comes down to it, I JUST DONT CARE if your gay, lesbian, transgender, male, female or what color your skin is, or what you believe in, whether you are in a minority or a majority. Your art, and your passion for your craft , is the thing that tells me all I need to know about you.
If making pretty girls in my spare time, to you, lumps me into the same category as these kinds of discriminatory men, then so be it. :thumbdown:
I ran a search on your username on both pages, and the only mention of you was actually referring to comments other people make in your art threads. So not sure what that rant was about, maybe be less defensive. :thumbup:
And there is beauty all over this world, to be found in more places than a womans posterior. If you aspire to produce something beautiful which is indeed a good thing to shoot for in this world of steroid junkie space marines and drooling hellbeasts, there's much more out there to refer to than T&A.
Having said that the fact that you get abusive PM's is not acceptable and you should report that behaviour.
What template are you using on your blog can I ask? The animated polaroids are really nice
that makes me kind of sad to hear, because it justifies a lot of what i thought happens, people do say guys are extra nice to you because you are a female artist, but there are plenty of guys that don't like you because you get special attention and they're extra jerky to you about it.
i have had people tell me that people probably hold back on their critiques because i'm a girl, and some probably do, but my friends and coworkers and art directors, definitely don't hold back because they know me and they know i want to be better and *can* do better
i love that, because that's how i feel and that's why i made an effort to post this topic here, i know we've had our fair share of "how women should be treated/seen" discussions through the tropes thread and in random others, but i felt like this was a really good thing that was going on right now with a lot of positive growth and it was worth talking about ^___^
wow i haven't even heard of this until now, that's pretty creepy
yeah i knew plenty of people who quit school or switched to graphic design half way through because the programs (and assignments) were too tough and they couldn't be bothered. but i just assume they don't love it enough to try harder, especially when others tried to help them and they ignored it.
you keep making them girls! i want to see more awesome female character models
but yeah those PMs and messages that you get about "objectify women" and being perverse is so uncalled for, with crap like that, i just assume people don't have manners and don't think before they talk, which isn't an excuse.
you're an awesome guy who gives everyone a chance and helps out the artist community more than most. who else is going to run a 4 - 5 month hands on character modeling course on his spare time for FREE? talking to people daily over skype and screen-sharing and doing sculpt-overs and paint-overs via G+? yeah not a lot of others. so thank you for being a ridiculously awesome person and artist that you are, you don't deserve all the rude remarks you get from uneducated commenters that don't bother to find out who you are as a person
Legendary post, A-fucking-men.
I do think an excessive focus on hyper idealised females is part of the "pollution", so to speak, albeit a small one, but that doesn't mean that folks shouldn't make models of ladies with big boobs and skinny waists if that's their wont, only that if we want to move forward in this issue, a positive step would be to branch out a little more with the character design archetypes. I think there's a gradual shift in that direction as it is, looking at what crops up in P&P. There are absolutely much, much larger cultural problems at play here, but most aren't quite so simple to address.
Ok, thats a little off topic. But its the same principle. If you dont like something, don't do it. Go to a different page. Dont harass the person doing it.
But I dont think this whole thing was based around the art we do. Some comments are about it. But those are subjective. This is more about the abuse of women in the work place. I would love to see anyone justify that, because that is horse crap, and that should never, ever be tolerated.
It's not her fault she was assaulted, it's the assaulter and security's fault.
Also, I'm not surprised to see Haz pop up in this thread(or get angry and defensive about his work) and I just want to say that, personally, I think he does extremely technically accomplished work but his fixation on incredibly idealised 'beautiful' women is... lame, tbh. He has every right to do it of course, but it's not helping the situation where the only image of a woman you can find in games is young and slim with big boobs and ass. Harassing him/others with a similar fixation isn't the way to foster artistic change though.
I would have to say the sexism thing goes both ways (maybe 3 ways). I've been told "It's not your fault, your just a man" , " your not stupid, it's just testosterone poisoning" and many comments like that from female coworkers. I've been felt up by gay coworkes, and in my younger cuter days, female coworkers. The physical stuff was was resolved with a quick conversation with each person.
The comments annoy me but I can't say anything about them because I get "can't you take a joke?" Whith that type of attitude coming from my management and coworkers, I can understand why women think they are being disciminated against. Just to let you know it happens to the guys too.
Now onto polycount and the content posted here. Yes, there are alot of skimpy outfits and curvy female meshes here, also huge beefy guys. Both look great but aren't something you would see in daily life.
These have both been made by males and females. Now guys will make female models that they think are sexy and it's pretty easy. Boobs, skimpy outfit, curvy tushy.
It gets a bit harder (no pun) when making beautiful men. Most haven't thought "What makes a beautiful man?". We've been conditioned to make heroic/adventurous men. I would love to have our female members show the community how to make a beautiful man. I know this last part probably doesn't fit the topic completely , it's just a personal wish.
So if I've offended you in the past, sorry dude -- it sounds like you get some pretty terrible shit in PMs just for being a good artist. That isn't cool, don't quit doing what you want to do.
More generally:
This actually relates to an overall defensiveness I think can start up in polycount about threads like this, though: A call for awareness like this is not an attempt to stifle your art. Everyone should keep making what they love, and being honest about it, and nobody squeamish about the social implications or obscenity about your art should tell you to stop -- but being understanding and aware of WHY somebody might be offended by your art can go a long way to helping you communicate about it in a way that doesn't hurt anyone around you.
I sure as hell am not going to change my designs just because somebody thinks they're sexist or racist or an inappropriate representation of the falklands conflict or whatever -- but it never hurts to have as deep and curious of an understanding of these things as possible.
i personally don't find a female's body type in games an issue (i would rather play a female character with idealized hourglass proportions than say a stick figure or someone who's overweight or boxy, i like feminine aesthetics and curves, but that's my personal taste). i think the design of the attire is usually the issue, but that's because a lot of the time they're being designed by guys (and girls) that don't know female fashion and which clothes fit which body types and not all of them go very far for reference. also, in studios, they're just doing their job, so they're not always creating what they would like either.
i know a lot of people give tera online a lot of crap for their females, especially the castanic race of characters, and yeah they might be skimpily dressed, but some of those costumes are amazing in my opinion and there are also plenty of fully armoured/clothed ladies too ^_^
i went picture happy, sorry ^_____^;
if you want to see more of the costumes check out:
http://tera-online.cc/gallery/races/
another great design (again in my opinion) is Bless, the elf, she's curvy and she's not a size 2 or whatever, but she's aesthetically pleasing and womanly and she's wearing pretty armour
i think the issue with not having a lot of females in lead roles, aside from more guys playing certain types of games and prefer male characters, they don't always have time or room for a whole other lead in a game and they would have had to change a story a certain way so it works for both sexes. when pokemon let me be a girl, i was pretty happy, but i didn't mind playing a guy, but that game's storyline didn't have to change in order for them to offer a female as a lead.
i do think they're starting to work these things out though, take a look at borderlands 2, you have Maya, and i think she looks fantastic, Gaige who looks like she's a young teen, and then they have npcs like Ellie, Tiny Tina, Lillith, Patricia Tannis, and Mad Moxxi
it definitely goes both ways and that's so rude of them to say stuff like "It's not your fault, you're just a man" and " your not stupid, it's just testosterone poisoning," there is no place for that and i completely feel you, i've gotten the "oh you're just a girl" and "your blonde roots are showing" (implying i'm being stupid) comments too, and depending whom they came from, they might be joking or they might be offensive. that's why people should know the limits of others before they say something that comes off rude or derogatory.
i use to be made fun of for drawing pretty men, i still do, but generally it's from close friends that just tease me about what i like and that's fine, but i didn't enjoy it as much in college when other students gave me crap for it. i'm sorry, i'm an artist, when i'm drawing/modeling something for myself, it's for myself. same goes for creating women. i like curves, and i love looking at other people's art with their own personal preferences, but they're theirs, and so i really dislike seeing people hate on others for what they are creating because they themselves don't like it. it's art. if you don't like it, ignore it