Need some help cutting the knot where to learn please...
polycounter lvl 7
Hiya guys.
I've been looking/reading around on the forums for a wile now and also used search for an answer to my "problem" but it's half a year old or older info and given the "speed" that these things can change with i decided to ask it again.
So ok here's my thing. I've doodled around myself for a wile in max (i have an autodesk student license don't worry) and i want to get serious about modelling. Even so serious that i would love nothing more then to make my profession out of it but that's a different problem.
I've no real faith in the "real" schools in my country (netherlands) when it comes to game art so i've been looking into online training. First i came across Gnomon wich i really love but after looking at their schedule it's just not possible. Most classes are between 1 and 5 am my time and i need to sleep sometimes. I also came across Digital Tutors wich seem most promissing to me right now. $400 for a year aint much and seeing the size of their library you get a lot for it to but i have zero experience with their community. I know that there must be some others out there but i know nothing about those at all tbh.
So now i wonder if i should just get that year with DT and learn my ass off (i'd spend all day every day learning and soon posting work here i hope) or would i be better of just buying the gnomon dvds instead but possibly missing out on a lot. Or heck maybe somewhere else entirely.
Well it's become a big big wall of text so i'll shut it now. Sorry for the long read guys i'm just a guy who likes to write things out well :poly122: haha.
Thanks in advance for any reactions and/or advice given.
ps. one of the easier things i made in max so far is this board:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1606/maxboardsrender.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7977/maxboardsrender2.jpg
pps. my goal is game art btw. prefered character modelling but don't mind working my way up from more hmm basic/static?? models.
I've been looking/reading around on the forums for a wile now and also used search for an answer to my "problem" but it's half a year old or older info and given the "speed" that these things can change with i decided to ask it again.
So ok here's my thing. I've doodled around myself for a wile in max (i have an autodesk student license don't worry) and i want to get serious about modelling. Even so serious that i would love nothing more then to make my profession out of it but that's a different problem.
I've no real faith in the "real" schools in my country (netherlands) when it comes to game art so i've been looking into online training. First i came across Gnomon wich i really love but after looking at their schedule it's just not possible. Most classes are between 1 and 5 am my time and i need to sleep sometimes. I also came across Digital Tutors wich seem most promissing to me right now. $400 for a year aint much and seeing the size of their library you get a lot for it to but i have zero experience with their community. I know that there must be some others out there but i know nothing about those at all tbh.
So now i wonder if i should just get that year with DT and learn my ass off (i'd spend all day every day learning and soon posting work here i hope) or would i be better of just buying the gnomon dvds instead but possibly missing out on a lot. Or heck maybe somewhere else entirely.
Well it's become a big big wall of text so i'll shut it now. Sorry for the long read guys i'm just a guy who likes to write things out well :poly122: haha.
Thanks in advance for any reactions and/or advice given.
ps. one of the easier things i made in max so far is this board:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1606/maxboardsrender.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7977/maxboardsrender2.jpg
pps. my goal is game art btw. prefered character modelling but don't mind working my way up from more hmm basic/static?? models.
Replies
Gnomon has a wide variety of learning tools but it really depends on what area of 3D modelling you're looking at. While they have plenty of learning tools I feel that they are split between film and game development so sometimes there is a large stretch between releases.
Eat3D has a wide selection of learning for games. This site is pretty great as far as learning goes and my favorite part is that they delve into game engines as well. I've been frequenting this site for a few years. Great stuff. They currently are having a thanksgiving sale. Take advantage of it while you can.
3DMotive Honestly one of my favorite sites right now. I was really unsure of their subscription model but now that I am a member I would have a really hard time cancelling my subscription. They consistently are making new content that is super informative and well presented. They also have a number of beginners courses for 3DS Max and Maya as well as game engines. Super awesome and they are running a Thanksgiving sale as well for reduced prices. I highly recommend subscribing.
Also, don't forget to post your work on the boards for critiques as well as our own "Polycount U" or what is commonly the wiki page. There is a ton of resources there as well.
Good luck and welcome.
Thanks for the responses so far. And sorry for the late response on my end.
I've looked over Eat3D and 3DMotive. I like them but it feels like there is something missing. Maybe it's just me personally though. Looking at the libraries that they show on the sites it feels like 3DMotive has a starter set but feels like it's missing a lot after that when it comes to maya for example. Has some workflow and high poly modeling but i don't see anything specific on character or low poly modeling etc. More directed to something.
Eat3D feel completely the other way around. Looking at the library (and this could be my misinterpretation /hope i write that right\) it feels like that is missing some basics and fundamentals but has more advanced training though it feels like it's more directed at the movie industry then gaming looking at the titles of them.
Gnomon.. Well like you said praetus. They have a lot of training from fundamentals to the more detailed and direction based training but it's split. And i know some are already some years old (like maya starters stuff etc) wich might be a problem but i don't know that for sure. Seeing how the programs change over time.
I do wonder why nobody mentioned what they thing about Digital Tutors yet. Tbh they seem to offer most variaty for the money and the option to learn all aspects of all used software. Well at least the tour on the website looks promising. Consider me as a real starter btw. I've doodled in max (as shows above) but the theory i know nothing about. Know of some things the 'what it does' but not the 'why it does it' if you know what i mean. Plus that i would prefer learning maya over max (seems to be the most asked for looking at job postings) and a bit later mudbox, zbrush or well anything needed to grow as a game artist.
I will ofcourse post work on the forums when i have something praetus. I'd love the input of the pc community and i always appreciate helpful critics on it
Digital tutors isn't bad but I would say the same thing about them as Gnomon. good looking lessons but they seem to be split between the whole games vs pre-rendered. Also, like Gnomon they have an extensive library but it's because some of the videos are 4+ years old. That doesn't mean they're bad but some of them may be outdated as programs have updated or changed.
The reason people here are going to be in love with 3D Motive and Eat 3D is that they are aimed specifically at game art more than anything else. And well, while Polycount does attract people from all walks of 3D I would say we are more than anything else, a game art community.
This might be a bit of noobish question but what's the actually big difference with learning to model for games or movies? i get that they are seperate lessons but modelling is modelling right?
@Jedi: I looked a bit at the modo site and read some X vs. Modo topics around the net and some are promising but it's only if you're down to modelling, texture and that's about it. As soon as you start talking about rigging, animation etc. they move right over to maya. Aside from maya still being the standard to date (as far as i can tell). So if your opinion why should i get modo then? Looking the site is fun and all but it's like asking a used car salesman what the mileage of a car is. They always make it seem like the sun is always shining bright. (does that even make any sence haha)
These days there probably isn't much of a difference when you're working with polygon models. Back in the day you would find things on NURBS or SUB-D modeling which is used for film only. However you may buy a DVD from Gnomon without knowing what that is by mistake. It's not going to help you with game workflows.
You had also mentioned learning Mari. I'm not 100% sure but I tend to think of that as being more for film. I don't know what studios use it for game asset creation if any. Typically for game art I see photoshop of course coupled with the in editor paint tools of zBrush or Mudbox. Going back to it, with Gnomon and DT, there are many programs they cover that are just not used for games. Before going "app crazy" with digital tutors I would look into what programs are used at studios and build a knowledge base from there.
@praetus: Thanks that makes it a bit clearer. Ass for going app crazy. Hehe i'm not that bad. Just thought of Mari as an easy tool to make the texturing a bit easier to do. But at start or at least when it comes to what i prefer to learn and i think this would hook up well with the game industry is the following: Maya -> Zbrush/Mudbox -> Photoshop -> mentalray. Anything else i can look at when i'm starting to produce well made models and maybe new tools that are made down the line. But as for right now that's the programs i'm thinking of right now. What's your opinion on this?
Edit: small simple question. 2nd monitor (or actually main for working on) 24 or 27 inch pts monitor? figured pts would be better then tn but i don't know about prefered aspect ration being 16:9 or 16:10 (going to guess 24" 16:9 but just to be sure)
I'm learning animation in maya from Digital Tutors.
I've started from basic 'getting started with maya', then went to learn some general basics with tutorials on modeling, UVs, texturing and render and now I'm after probably half of the all cool stuff they have on animation and rigging. It's all amazing and very clear, I love their tuts. Maybe a little too repetetive at times so I have to skip a lot.
Keep in mind, it took me, maybe 3 months? I don't know about 3DSmax, but I think that half a year on Digital Tutors is more than enough to run out of tutorials that would interest you.
I'm learning animation in maya from Digital Tutors.
I've started from basic 'getting started with maya', then went to learn some general basics with tutorials on modeling, UVs, texturing and render and now I'm after probably half of the all cool stuff they have on animation and rigging. It's all amazing and very clear, I love their tuts. Maybe a little too repetetive at times so I have to skip a lot.
Keep in mind, it took me, maybe 3 months? I don't know about 3DSmax, but I think that half a year on Digital Tutors is more than enough to run out of tutorials that would interest you.
Anyways. Yeah i descided in the end to go with DT for now. One because they have the whole pipeline on there + extra's for on the side. And it seems that my gf wants to learn some stuff with photoshop and the like as well so she can do that in my off hours. I'll probally will get it for a year cause what i want to learn isn't just one program. For me it's maya, mudbox/zbrush, mentalray. photoshop. the whole pipeline i'd say. Focus will be on modelling ofcourse but anything else i can learn aside it is only an advantage i'd say.
Thnx for your opinion i'll keep it in mind (and maybe i'll go with 6mnds after all. who knows)
Can pts run fast enough for gaming? I'd probably recommend looking at Dell's IPS panels if you want good colours and still be able to play games on it. 24" or 27" is personal preference really. I have a 23" 1920x1080 (dell u2311h) and it's great as a main screen.
Yeah i notice pts isn't that fast haha but it's ok. Learning and working are more important and i still have my ps3 and older tn screen on the side (watch the lessons on and work alongside it on my new screen).
I wanted the u2412m i think it was from dell. That had my preference but it had one problem with my current gpu. As the dvi was already in use for my older tn screen i had to find a sreen that had an hdmi input on it. So i spend some time going over and over some test results from http://nl.hardware.info/reviews/2501/17/ips--en-va-monitoren-review-beter-beeld-round-up-testresultaten-helderheid-en-contrast (it's dutch though so might be hard to follow).
I ended up with the Liyama prolite x2472hd (va screen with led backlight) and i have to say that i'm pretty happy with it. It came well out of the tests in the area's i thought where important and not the best in some other areas so it's a win and loss but i think for a start it's a good screen to get. Thanks for the input Bek.
ps. gw2 and d3 work fine on it. don't know about fps's yet but still got the tn.