Hmm, am I the only one who thinks that black outlines and details in diffuse texture(not in shader) hide most of normal/spec map details?
Those high poly models are state of art, but unfortunately, it doesn't show ingame, since diffuse is super complex and those nice details are difficult to read with diffuse maps such these.
Was there a point in development where you asked yourselves "Is baking from hi poly really necessary? Is it time efficient and worth the end results?"
Also, this reminds me, I created a TEDIORE smg some time ago based on the first (cam) footage and concept art released
Yes it's true that once u ink over the edge normals it does ruin the illusion of depth so we were very selective on what needed a high and what didn't. Characters needed the high poly cause of the folds on the clothing and muscle definition, most assets that didn't need a normal we faked it in the texture with shadows and highlights and even if the prop didn't need a normal the detail of the high poly helped in placing all that cool detail.
I just wanted to say a big thank you to the Borderlands team for creating this thread for the PC community! It was really a pleasure looking through all of your works Amazing job!
I have went through and saved the images in order of posting, and just numbered them and organized them into a few loose headings (Chars, Enviro, Weapons, Vehicle).
Save some ppl a little time filling up your reference/inspiration folders with all this glory!
Lachtan – To expand on what rsanti1964 said, one of the main reasons is all the other rips we get out of the high that go into making the texture what it is. Even if we don’t end up using the normal or it gets cut, we still get a highlight, cavity, and baked lighting pass out of it. Not mention a few other little tricks that add to the style. You are absolutely correct though. A lot of the work the normal does gets painted and inked over in the valleys and cracks. To get a bit more out of it though we actually started breaking the ink lines on highlight edges onto either side. This way you still get the nice rounded corners and a nice blingy highlighted edge while the ink and the style are still present. This started on the weapons but it kind of trickled over to other assets we did afterwards. Plus, as a friend of mine brought up to me, having a solid high poly prevents details and proportions within the texture from becoming too cartoony. It is actually very easy to go too far and push the textures out of the realm of the style.
TL : DR - I think the best part of this thread is we now know who we should send lots and lots of candy / beer to, and who we should mail bomb! If you made any box or weapon, prepare for beer. If you made any of the annoying enemies, prepare for the tiny tina treatment!
...uh oh.... I think everyone made some sort of loot chest so we should be safe right?
But on topic:
Some dynamic assets didn't even have anything baked down. Heck, Brent Hollon made the Bunk3r without a highpoly. The Bunk3r was all hand painted.
...uh oh.... I think everyone made some sort of loot chest so we should be safe right?
But on topic:
Some dynamic assets didn't even have anything baked down. Heck, Brent Hollon made the Bunk3r without a highpoly. The Bunk3r was all hand painted.
Not me... I'm probably going to open my door one day to get a giant hand slapping me in the face for that Buzzard, lol.
ok, so a few have been asking for wireframes, textures, etc. So i dissected the work i did on the Bandit Assault rifle. Hope its useful
Most of the modeling was done in 3dsMax. I did some damage and wear in zbrush. Here is the high-low-normals-textured:
(some of the parts changed a little after the high poly was finished)
I think a special shout out is in order for dirtyhairy, aka David May. He, along with Kevin Duc on concept, sat around the computer for hours trying to figure out how the new weapons would look and fit together. He built all the blocking meshes that insured consistency across all the artists making weapons. Because of how our gun system works, this was no small task. Not glamorous, and damn was it a ton of work, but it was the first step to some incredible art!
I came in late in the project, and got to do a few assets. Never did high polies for them. Doing a Borderland Style texture is no easy task. You wrist will hurt at the end of the day! It is a lot of hard work. But its fun!
Superdenny707 - our shaders look like every other basic shader used in unreal. There are no shader tricks, all of our inks are hand drawn. If you're talking about the black edge detection outline, that also is not much different from the already existing tutorials out there. Like we've mentioned before, it's just good old fashion hard work.
I know, I know... How many times can you say the same thing, but great work guys! I love whenever we get one of these threads going. It's one of the only times we get this kind of sharing of processes on the art side of the pipeline within the industry. They are always beneficial.
Dede_pig - Poly budget varies depending on what you're working on. The Buzzard ended up being 6k triangles, and most assets I made were usually under 1k. We tried to get as low as we could. I think characters ranged from 4k-7k triangles. The other guys could give you more insight on things. But in general everything had to be SUPER LOW.
Many games are built in a way that you can stream content in and out depending on where you are in the level, allowing for smaller areas to have larger budgets. Because we are a 4-player co-op game we had to account for the possibility of all four players being in completely different areas of the map at any time. So everything in that map had to be loaded at all times. I'm still pretty surprised about the amount of detail we were able to push in some areas considering our strict budgets.
Congrats on all this beautiful work! Amazing art dump, so much to look at! I was working as a games tester for 2K games back before the release of the first Borderlands and got to see the game as it was before the art direction changed to the 'hand drawn' textured style and I must say I loved the game even more once it was introduced, it makes a world of difference. Kudos on all the hard work, it was worth it as it all looks fantastic.
This is literally the best thread in the history of threads, and the best dump in the history of dumps.
Two questions:
1.) Max or Maya for the hard surf HP?
2.) How on earth did you get such beautiful renders? Zbrush matcaps? Max beauty render with point lights and IBL? Marmoset toolbag with some advanced sauce?
For the love of all that is holy, please please share! ..Please:)
All but one of us use Max. Raul uses Modo. Our hard surfaced stuff was mostly inside Max, but then would go into ZBrush if it needed a damage pass.
For our renders, most of us just used ZBrush BPR with a custom mat cap that our co-worker Jason Neal made. We then would do the same with a few other mat caps (varied per person) to overlay in photoshop and get a neat look.
All but one of us use Max. Raul uses Modo. Our hard surfaced stuff was mostly inside Max, but then would go into ZBrush if it needed a damage pass.
For our renders, most of us just used ZBrush BPR with a custom mat cap that our co-worker Jason Neal made. We then would do the same with a few other mat caps (varied per person) to overlay in photoshop and get a neat look.
Any chance you might be able to give us a ballpark on the kind of time estimates you guys had to work with on this stuff? (ie. 5 days for the high poly of a large prop, 3 for a medium and 1 for a small. Or 2 weeks for completed in-game model of a large prop, 1 for a medium, and 3 for a small..)
It would be cool to have a frame of reference on how fast we're expected to knock this kind of stuff out. Give us something to shoot for:)
This stuff is amazing guys!! thanks for sharing, as soon as I saw all this I went out and bought the game =P Going through it now with some friends and having a blast, though I did end up in an area where the good old blue and white checkered default material was in plain sight =D that's glitches for you! especially on a game of this scale.
Thank you guys!!!
I actually changed my field of work completely because of Borderlands 1 and 2, I quit Graphic Design and got back to make Concept art and started to learn 3D softs and UDK, so maybe someday I will be able to make things like that.
So again thansk for share those bits of candy!
Replies
Yes it's true that once u ink over the edge normals it does ruin the illusion of depth so we were very selective on what needed a high and what didn't. Characters needed the high poly cause of the folds on the clothing and muscle definition, most assets that didn't need a normal we faked it in the texture with shadows and highlights and even if the prop didn't need a normal the detail of the high poly helped in placing all that cool detail.
I have went through and saved the images in order of posting, and just numbered them and organized them into a few loose headings (Chars, Enviro, Weapons, Vehicle).
Save some ppl a little time filling up your reference/inspiration folders with all this glory!
Dropbox - http://bit.ly/Uvc0n3
GoogleDrive - http://bit.ly/RHyzX8 (B/C some studios block Dropbox)
Still keeping a close eye on this thread, so much good art and info.
BL2 might be my favorite game this year.
Ha! You would. What's the deal with you and chubby chicks? Fat bottom girls makin' your rockin' world go round?
...uh oh.... I think everyone made some sort of loot chest so we should be safe right?
But on topic:
Some dynamic assets didn't even have anything baked down. Heck, Brent Hollon made the Bunk3r without a highpoly. The Bunk3r was all hand painted.
Not me... I'm probably going to open my door one day to get a giant hand slapping me in the face for that Buzzard, lol.
Most of the modeling was done in 3dsMax. I did some damage and wear in zbrush. Here is the high-low-normals-textured:
(some of the parts changed a little after the high poly was finished)
Here is the normal rips on the low poly
Textures and uvs
Everyone check the 1st page toward the bottom mLink aka Matt Link has posted up some of his sweet sweet character sculpts.
Congrats for the game!
Really inspiring me as a student to strive harder !
Questions !!!
What is the poly budget that you guys are working on ?
Kudos again.
Matt Link updated again with some of his awesome Sand Bandits from Captain Scarlett and Her Pirate's Booty.
Damian Kim has updated with some texture flats and the Bonus Salvador Head you get for having a BL1 save when you start the game.
Many games are built in a way that you can stream content in and out depending on where you are in the level, allowing for smaller areas to have larger budgets. Because we are a 4-player co-op game we had to account for the possibility of all four players being in completely different areas of the map at any time. So everything in that map had to be loaded at all times. I'm still pretty surprised about the amount of detail we were able to push in some areas considering our strict budgets.
Two questions:
1.) Max or Maya for the hard surf HP?
2.) How on earth did you get such beautiful renders? Zbrush matcaps? Max beauty render with point lights and IBL? Marmoset toolbag with some advanced sauce?
For the love of all that is holy, please please share! ..Please:)
All but one of us use Max. Raul uses Modo. Our hard surfaced stuff was mostly inside Max, but then would go into ZBrush if it needed a damage pass.
For our renders, most of us just used ZBrush BPR with a custom mat cap that our co-worker Jason Neal made. We then would do the same with a few other mat caps (varied per person) to overlay in photoshop and get a neat look.
One selfish question though, which can be answered via PM if you like:
What are the chances of getting a version of the Zero model for armor crafting schematics purposes?
You. Rule.
It would be cool to have a frame of reference on how fast we're expected to knock this kind of stuff out. Give us something to shoot for:)
I actually changed my field of work completely because of Borderlands 1 and 2, I quit Graphic Design and got back to make Concept art and started to learn 3D softs and UDK, so maybe someday I will be able to make things like that.
So again thansk for share those bits of candy!
See ya!