Another computer build thread
polycounter lvl 8
Hey guys, I've been getting advice from an IT guy as well as the forums over at NCIX on building my computer. I don't know anything about hardware (okay, maybe I know one or two things). But I just don't trust myself to choose the right parts to work together.
So, here's what someone recommended (with a couple tweeks by myself)
i7-3770K CPU - $329.99
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus - $19.99
MSI Z77A-G45 Motherboard - $114.99
Mushkin 32GB DDR3-1600 RAM - $119.99
Crucial M4 Micron C400 SSD 256GB 2.5in SATA3 6Gbps $199
Seagate 2TB HDD - $89.99
Antec 620W Modular PSU - $79.99
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - $97.99
Fractal Design R4 Black Case - $89.99
Galaxy GTX 680 4GB - $519.99
Anything you would replace?
Total comes to around 2k$ with shipping and tax and stuff.
Mainly need to be able to run lots of apps at once, have maya and zbrush capable of running millions of polys, DX11 capable. I want to be ready for next gen games and engines.
So, here's what someone recommended (with a couple tweeks by myself)
i7-3770K CPU - $329.99
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus - $19.99
MSI Z77A-G45 Motherboard - $114.99
Mushkin 32GB DDR3-1600 RAM - $119.99
Crucial M4 Micron C400 SSD 256GB 2.5in SATA3 6Gbps $199
Seagate 2TB HDD - $89.99
Antec 620W Modular PSU - $79.99
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - $97.99
Fractal Design R4 Black Case - $89.99
Galaxy GTX 680 4GB - $519.99
Anything you would replace?
Total comes to around 2k$ with shipping and tax and stuff.
Mainly need to be able to run lots of apps at once, have maya and zbrush capable of running millions of polys, DX11 capable. I want to be ready for next gen games and engines.
Replies
What do you think of the videocard? Apparently it's good for gaming; think it will be good for Maya/ game engines?
Nvidia cards have been purposely hobbled in 3D programs in order for them to justify you buying a Quadro, which then you lose gaming performance (which is bass ass backwards for our industry as we want to work on the same equipment as the end user).
Ever since AMD bought ATI, their cards and drivers have gotten better and better, and they have no issues with 3d programs.
Also, get Windows 8. Its a bit more streamlined/efficient. Yes, you have to deal with Metro, but there are ways around that, and its not bad after you get used to it.
Given the current build, which videocard should I get? Remember, I know nothing. Just want something that's compatible and works like a boss. Is it possible to get one thats good for 3D apps as well as gaming?
Modern PSUs deliver much better output - e.g. they draw 600 watts and offer e.g. 90% of that to the components, unlike older PSUs which would lose much more.
Example: Dell ships their Tesla enabled dual Xeons with a 650w 90% efficiency PSU.
As for ATI, I aree with oXYnary - my ATI card is just super stable. I got less issues than with my old nVidia cards (260GTX, 8800GTX). I do miss CUDA support, but not very often.
The GF is a beast, but then again the next ATI card is 150 bucks cheaper. Depends what you want to do though. My card is down the list by now, but it still manages to drive a 30" and a 22" monitor at respectable FPS with very high settings in e.g. Mass Effect 3 (yes, I finally bought it *mumble*mutter*damn Origin*). UDK also works very well with that.
You could easily get a card for 1/2 that price and put the rest into a nice IPS monitor or two. Or a nice desk. Or a chair. All of which will last longer than any hardware you buy and will be better for overall production and health. No point buying a boss of a computer if you aren't comfortable using it.
My 2 cents! I would kill to have a $2k budget.
Edit: Forgot to add. If you want a computer that will run everything at max and be somewhat-future proof, that will certainly do the trick.
No. 620 is major overkill as it is. Unless he plans to runs 2 gpus in the future.
Also, stick with nVidia OP. My 660ti works awesome with Max, Blender, ZBrush, UDK. ATI is known to play nicer with the more advanced viewing options in Maya, but in general ATI are cards for budget restricted gamers. ATI also have a series like Quadro so they are doing the same 'hobbling' (nothing youll ever notice). Go for the 680, enjoy CUDA and PhysX.
Also for SSD, go for samsung. I have a crucial one and it works fine, but the failure rate is something like 1.1% whereas the Samsung 830 series is at .5%
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-review,2916.html
The RAM is overkill. You'll never use up 32GB before it's time to upgrade again. Go for 16GB at the most.
I went with a evga gtx 660 since it was a good compromise in price and power, plus leaves me options if I want to do some gaming in the future.
Also, I put in 32GB RAM. As Overlord said, probably overkill, but if it's your budget, why not? Saves you having to upgrade that I guess. However, Windows actually reserves space on your boot drive equivalent to the amount of RAM you have so when it hibernates/sleeps, it can dump the RAM, then access it again when you wake it up.
It ain't that serious, mang. Just get a 500W PSU and you'll be grand.
Videocard...still not sure where to go with this. Talked to the computer specialist where I work and he says I shouldnt spend more than 350$ on a videocard, because the top tier stuff is only slightly better and will be replaced soon.
So...videocard for around $350 that can run dual 24" screens at 1080p with maya and other apps open. Also dx11 (if I can run Unreal engine 4 when its out real time at hi fps with all that cool next-gen stuff, Im happy, just trying to future proof)
Ram is relatively cheap, so Im going to stick with 32gigs. Theres no downside to having too much ram is there?
The computer specialist I talked to said a SSD is a waste of money because it hardly makes a difference in load times at all, so maybe its better just to get another internal HD? I wont argue another 2tbs of space.
The difference is Nvidia Hobbles it on purpose. The ATI is just not optimized for those programs. Dude, I could totally tell going from an older Geforce card to a 240 and 540. My frames were lower, and the card heated up to 60 celsius just moving around simple scenes. I could crash the GPU if I ran Max full screen..
Go AMD. :P
And no, 620 isn't major overkill for an I7 and full ATX motherboard.
That... is not a problem with your GPU. There's something different wrong with your system. Never heard of anything that extreme. That certainly isn't an nVidia problem.
As I said, I get great performance with programmes with my 660ti. It'll be even better with a 670/680 (I would recommend a 670; always buy mid-range more often than spending far too much on a card that will be obsolete in 2/3 anyway.
my £1,500 machine is sitting next to me in boxes... ordered everything a month ago...
not a happy bunny! lol
Sorry but this is proof you havent got a clue what youre talking about mate.
I've always bought Nvidia cards, but earlier this year Nvidia was dragging their feet, and I wasn't about to buy a year old card for the same price as newer technology.
I'd stick with an Nvidia 670 or 680 (or a cheaper alternative if you'd like).
500W would be the maximum he should buy. His system only draws about 400W at the most. What really matters is the power per 12V rail, not just total wattage. He only needs to buy more power if he intends to add another GPU.
He's wrong.
i built my son an nvidia machine a couple of weeks ago (gtx 560 ti), total machine build was around £500, and there are no games that it struggles with even remotely.
honestly man, you don't need to spend more than $1000 US to get an awesome machine. spend the rest on one of the following:
drugs
women
cintiq
ips monitors
car
In that order.
Finally someone who actually understands how power supplies work. I'm so sick of hearing people recommend 700-1000w PSUs when the computers people are actually building only will only ever draw 1/4-1/3rd of that from the mains...
BUT WHAT IF I WANT TO TRIPPLE SLI BEEFCAKE VIDEO CARDS PLUS INSTALL 12 NEW HARD DRIVES LATER? Well upgrade your PSU later then, the chances you'll actually do that are slim to none.
The things that are important with PSUs:
1. Efficiency
2. Heat/noise (this goes hand in hand with #1, more watts, more heat, more noise to cool).
3. Modularity/easy of use
4. Wattage
In that order!
Pretty much any efficient PSU around 500w is enough to power any modern computer unless you've got very specific components(high end sli cards, or sli on single card gpus). Its hard to find PSUs less than 500w that will meet the first 3 points, so yeah, wattage really is barely important.
If you're building a system with very specific power needs, you know what sort of PSU you want, you're not starting threads on polycount to ask about it.
Well, yeah. Pretty much that. You don't want your machine to idle at below 50% load or you'll be dumping all your efficiency out the back of your PSU. That will run up your energy bill and burn out your PSU prematurely. You do need to look closely at the 12V rails though, they don't always meet the required wattage of your GPU, especially the cheapo PSU's. Anything at least 80 Plus is usually good. Read that label.
Edit:
@Selaznog
Get this PSU, you have the budget. It's super efficient, modular, and the 12V rail is huge.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121083
It is, and if you paid attention to threads on here like, oh this one.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92072
You would see I'm not nearly alone.
I also showed this to an Nvidia rep, who looked at the system and agreed... agreed that the performance sucked. He even said they were focusing programs ilike that for quadro and any optimization if at all was low on the list for consumer cards.
So I actually do know what I'm talking about here.
I said "major overkill", not "this is the bare minimum".
All I can do is speak from experience and having a 400watt with an older quad core core2, an older 4800hd, and 2 hardrives could barely boot (as is sometimes it wouldn't). And this wasn't a shit PS either (though not top of the line as well).
I just did a Calculator, and low and behold...
Recommended for his setup.. 400 watts.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine
The thing is I would still tell someone to get at least 500, as it gives some overhead, and I truly believe if your running your system near the wattage max, the PSU will fail that much faster.
^^This^^
Someone at work recommended I replace the default tower fans with Noctua fans as they are much quieter (sound level is important to me)
Case: Fractal Design Define XL Black E-ATX (this thing is huge)
Videocard: MSI GeForce GTX 670
SSD: Crucial M4 Micron C400 SSD 256GB
HDD: Western Digital Red 3TB SATA3 64MB (struggling to find a reliable hard drive...doesnt seem like any of them are that reliable. might be better to get 3x1tb?)
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-G45 ATX LGA1155 Z77
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K Unlocked Quad Core Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155
RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Silverline Stiletto 32GB 4X8GB (ram is cheap, why not?)
PSU: Antec Basiq BP550 Plus 550W 24PIN ATX 12V V2.2 80PLUS Modular Active PFC
BluRay: LG CH12LS28 12X Blu-Ray Reader & Lightscribe DVD Writer Combo Drive
Fans:
Noctua NH-D14 LGA1155/1156/1366/AM3 I7/I5/PHENOM Heatpipe Cooler w/ NF-P14 140mm & NF-P12 120mm Fan
Noctua NF-P14-FLX 140mm Ultra Quiet Cooling Fan 750-1200RPM 71-110M3/H 10.1-19.6DBA 4Pin Molex (x3)
Critique me like one your french girls
(ps: no I'm not some rich jerk doing this for the lulz. I have a loan to pay off, as well as need to save to move out at some point. However right now I'm living at home, don't need a car, no longer have a girlfriend, and getting 30-40 hours of work in a week. Treating myself
Yup, he is very wrong. Watched a few comparison videos and the difference is incredible. His argument is "how many times are you going to be starting up your computer," but for me it's more about how many times a day I re-open photoshop and maya, not to mention marmoset, n-do etc.
I still say no to the Nvidia and point to this thread as proof of the pudding.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92072
But its your choice.
Why do you need such a huge case? Think about if you have to move if you get a job and carting that Monster across country.
You can get a smaller Lian Li aluminum atx case for around that same amount.
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=41122
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=46689
Aluminum dissipates heat better, lighter, but cant take a beating like steel.
Its not like your overclocking it (the memory you got is not OC [it's cas isn't great either]). In fact if your not Overclocking get the cheaper non unlocked Intel.
Since your spending that much money on a cooler, I would be personally weary of something that is so generic that it can fit on multiple CPU configs. Last one I got like that fit like crap because it made compromises to fit so many types.
For the same price you can get this
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=66277
Which will make a MUCH quieter system.
Cheap cases don't come with dust filters and slowly ruin all your components by allowing them to clog with dust.
Cheap GPUs often come with poor cooling, or badly designed mountings that damage the BGA package when they heat up.
Cheap RAM, I've found, is prone to faults.
Cheap power supplies can die and take everything else with them.
Cheap SATA cables cause random crashes and hangs.
Even cheap fans can cause issues. I bought a cheap 120mm fan (less than £5) and the molex power connector wasn't put together properly and shorted +12V to +5V briefly causing a shutdown and a bright blue light.
You don't have to spend a lot to get a good machine nowadays (I'd say high end CPUs are for anything other than baking a waste of money, and 8Gb of Corsair Vengeance ought to be enough for anybody) but don't buy the cheapest of the cheap anything.
At best, it'll not allow the rest of your system to reach its maximum potential.
At worst, it'll damage the rest of your system.
Selz all I would change there is changing the SSD to a Samsung 830 one. Should be around the same price. Get a reputable brand of RAM, but yeah the cheaper the better. RAM is RAM. Corsair are a good brand.
SSDs are awesome. I remember playing Deus Ex:HR on the PS3, load times were awful. About 4 seconds for me now.
How long ago was this and what generation of cards? I hear people say this, but many times upon further inquiry, it was for older generation cards and drivers.
Again, I point to that thread above to show at least for 3d, Nvidia hobbles the cards. I dunno, maybe for the 600 series they have finally taken the hint. But the new drivers for the 500 which the 600 share, nothing has improved.
But yah, as long as I can handle intense next gen scenes real-time in-engine, at a normal framerate, I'm happy.
@Andreas: Thanks I'll switch that out
@JamesWild, the thing is that I don't know what's good quality and what isn't. That's the main reason I'm posting here. Quality of product is very important to me. I'm just praying that what I have so far is the best brand of it's tier.
@OXYnary: Thanks for your input. Currently deciding between that second case you posted and the fractal in my cart. While the fractal is huge, if I move somewhere, I'm gonna be taking other heavy stuff anyways (books). I'm not sure if getting a smaller case would really be worth it/make that huge a difference when moving...I do like the fact that the fractal leaves a lot of room for upgrades and such.
tinyurl.com/falconguide
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/The_FalconO6/CurrentLogicalPCBuyingGuide/Guide.png
This'll be fun to pay off...
The in store coverage sounds useless too. If anything ever broke on the PCs I bought then it was the PSU (cheaper than that fee you pay here) or a HDD (sometimes covered by manufacturer. send it in, get new one back). Nothing on the dell broke yet tho. And my gf uses my 6 year old XPS that didn't have any defect yet either. (yes, I'm wary of all those expensive service contracts and extended warranties)
What made you got with the EVGA 670 in the end Selz? I find that the EVGAs skimp on cooling. Mind you I have a ASUS 660ti and it sounds like somebody is hoovering in the next room when its on full load heh.
The new Studio XPS is a bit more limited since it's in a mini tower. Then again you can easily fit 4 HDDs + DVD in there without obstructing air flow too much. With HDD capacities of over a TB you should be able to put a lot of storage in it. It also takes a full length double height ATI or nVidia card.
That leaves you expansion to put e.g. a Wifi card and some other card in there. In my case another SATA controller to bring the total SATA port count to 8. I added two SSDs which I put with velcro tape to the bottom of the case. They don't get hot or anything anyway and I don't have cables running all thru the case.
PSU is standard ATX, so you can upgrade it. Board is standard ATX too. Then there's a decent card reader in it (didn't fail on any cards yet, unlike the USB ones) and an extra fan - which runs very quiet.
I'd probably rate this as one of the best PCs I had so far - runs it all from XP to Win 8, Maya to Max, zero blue-screens in 3 years. Only complaint are the USB ports. I wish it had more - only 8 in total. 6 sata ports instead of 4 would be nice too, but maybe I'm asking too much here. Original price was around 800 bucks. Add 300 for 2 SSDs, Add 90 for a stronger PSU.
Originally it came with a nVidia 260 gtx which wasn't too shabby. Last year I got a new ATI card. But I treat gfx card upgrades extra. For me they're sort of independent upgrades.