Normal Map Produces Ugly Seams

NumberSlayer

Hey guys I've been having a huge problem with every normal map I have baked to date. I'm fairly new to this stuff so I'm sure I must be missing something. Every normal map I bake, regardless of method used (Subdivision in zbrush or Cage in 3ds max and xnormal), ends up having the normal map completely flipped at the seams of the model. When I render the seams clearly stick out and look hideous. Here are some examples I have taken from 3ds max.

Here is the normal map laid out on the model as a diffuse. You can clearly see that the normals are not matching up at the seams.







Here is a picture of the normal map itself with the UV setup I have for the model that I made in zbrush.



I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here. I don't think its because of my UV coordinates. My diffuse maps turn out just fine. I have tried flipping the channels in Photoshop with little success. I tried changing the shading groups on the low poly model in 3ds max as well but still no fix. Please I need help fixing these seams because I am all out of ideas.

lloyd

Hello NumberSlayer, Welcome to Polycount,

Are you using Max 2013? as it has some view port issues with normals, also how are you displaying them in the viewport? bump map slot?

I'm guessing its all in 1 smoothing group?


also if you upload the model and file we could take a look and see what's causing the issue.

If you don't want to share your model, try taking it into another engine to display.
Such as Marmoset: http://www.marmoset.co/

One other thing you could try is using XoliulShader, however because that works in max, if you're using 2013 it too will be broke,
Laurens was nice enough to address this issue in the XoliulShader thread, you can find more info here:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88289&page=19
With the download link here:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1693132&postcount=466
However its not 100%, I have still had issues with it.


-lloyd

Racer445

it looks like you have not added "normal bump" to the bumpmap slot before you added your bitmap.

if you're using max standard material, clear the bump slot and add a "normal bump" first, then add your bitmap within the normal bump. make sure the bump strength is 100 (30 default) as well.

Brendan

I think the tangents and/or binormals may be fucked. Is there a way you can check between Max and whatever you're using to do your baking? It doesn't look like the cage is missing too much (apart from the blotches in the armpits and collar), but the result is just messed up normals between islands.

EDIT: Or you could have just assigned it as the wrong sort of 'bump' and the normal map and the tangent/birnormals are playing nicely.

lloyd

Racer445 wrote: »

it looks like you have not added "normal bump" to the bumpmap slot before you added your bitmap.

if you're using max standard material, clear the bump slot and add a "normal bump" first, then add your bitmap within the normal bump. make sure the bump strength is 100 (30 default) as well.

That 30 as default thing is annoying! EVERYTIME

NumberSlayer

Hello lloyd, you are right I am using 2013 but I get the same issues in both Tool Bag, UDK, and Blender. So it must be an issue with the normal map baking because you can see it directly on the normal map itself that the seams do not match up correctly. And yes I am also using the normal map in the bump slot.

Racer445 I am doing exactly that in the images I have shown. I used to not add a normal bump but now I started to use normal bumb in the bump slot. And I do set it to 100. Sometimes I like to go over 100 lol. However that doesn't seem to affect the seams at all as you can see in the pictures in my first post.

Hey Brendan, I have used 3ds max and xnormal with cages to bake my normals but now I am using zbrush for my normal map baking because I like working in zbrush as much as possible. I first make a lowpoly and then I subdivide it into the highres version which I sculpt for extra detail. Then I bake the normals right from zbrush. I don't think zbrush uses a cage, it just works off of the subdivisions between the low and high res versions of the model. However I get the same issue with the cage methods in both max and xnormal. And now I just remembered using mudbox sometimes to bake the normals and I still get the same issue.

What I am working on right now is a character that is wearing jeans and the jacket you guys see above. I have already made the jeans and for some reason the normal map turned out just fine. You can't tell where the seams are at all. It has to be the first model I have ever made where the normal map turned out perfectly seamless. Words cannot describe how happy I was when I saw the normal map turn out so good. The weird thing is that I baked the normals and made the model the exact same way as the jacket. And yet I get two different results.

NumberSlayer

I have just baked an object space normal map using z brush in the exact same way that I bake normal maps and this map turned out just perfect. Here is a render in tool bag of the results.

As you can see there are no seams to be found. So now I am really confused because I was thinking that it might have something to do with my UV maps. But this new object space map is just perfect. So I Don't see why the tangent normal map is turning out so ugly.

rollin

hm.. looks still to me as if the green, red or both needs to get flipped.
It could be a max bug too.. have seen this several times. Fastest way to find out whats going on is when you give us the model and the normalmap to download

NumberSlayer

I played around with the channels in photoshop but no success. I attached the normal map and the max files if you guys wanna see it for yourselves. I'm new to this site so I don't know how to attach a file. When I click on attach file it limits me to just image files so instead I uploaded them on sendspace. Hope you guys can get the files just fine from there. The download links are below for the file and map.

Max File
http://www.sendspace.com/file/375ny0

Normal Map
http://www.sendspace.com/file/agzgll

You guys should test it in other rendering packages, along with max, as well like tool bag because I get the same issue there as well. This is the main reason why I don't think it's an issue with max but the texture baking itself.

Hope you guys find something and thanks for the help.

rollin

can't get it to work in max 2013 .. but this is because of max and me not having some shader that seems to work. (nitrous is just wrong as usual)

works fine in max 2012 in d3d and a normal directx shader though!

NumberSlayer

Thanks for checking rollin.

Well that is interesting. You didn't change the normal map at all? Because when I look at the normal map on the model as a diffuse I can see where the colors mismatch at the seams. So max 2013 is missing a shader that corrects for the inconsistency at the seams? How would I fix this or would I have to go back to 2012? Also I don't get why I see the same issues show up in Marmoset toolbag. Could it too be having the same issue as max?

Neox

the color mismatch is totally correct as it calculates the orientation of the uv clusters into the tangent space normalmap, never judge a normalmap by how it looks when applied in the diffuse slot.

rollin

I don't know why max 2013 is that strange.. what's about the 3point shader or Xoliul's shader?

can you get it to work there?

the problem in marmorset should be something else as the model and the normalmap are working fine here, didn't made any changes.

NumberSlayer

I saw a thread on here a while back talking about some normal map issues for the Xoliul shader. I checked their site and 2013 max is not supported. I don't know about 3point. I think I'm just gonna go back to 2012 and hope they fix this for 2013. Max 2013 is still in beta no? I'm not sure because I got it back during mid summer so I never kept track on its progress.

caiobuca

I am really not sure how to get the best of my Normal maps in 3ds Max, but i did find out a workaround for these strange seams. In the bump slot i added a "Gamma & Gain" shader and put my Normal Bump shader in the input channel. Also remember to uncheck "Reverse Gamma Correction". It usually works for me, but i'm not sure if it's the best solution. By the way, im using Max 2012, x64.

irakli_chkonia

you have to change the (color space srgb to color space raw), check the green channel of the texture, and it will help 100%.
it works in blende, painter, maya....