Importance of a degree in the gaming industry?
polycounter lvl 8
Hey guys, I'd like some clarification on the importance of a degree in the gaming industry.
In some businesses (non gaming) i've heard that career advancement is extremely limited if you dont have a certain degree. Is this the case in the gaming industry?
example: Lets assume two people have exactly the same skill level and qualifications, but one does not have a degree. Does the one with the degree have a reasonable advantage over the one without a degree in getting a job and career advancement?
edit: crap wrong forum... someone move this to general discussion please
In some businesses (non gaming) i've heard that career advancement is extremely limited if you dont have a certain degree. Is this the case in the gaming industry?
example: Lets assume two people have exactly the same skill level and qualifications, but one does not have a degree. Does the one with the degree have a reasonable advantage over the one without a degree in getting a job and career advancement?
edit: crap wrong forum... someone move this to general discussion please
Replies
Ultimately if you are trying to get a job as an artist you will be judged on your portfolio, not how you learned to make the stuff. However I think a degree makes a huge difference in your art if you get formal training on the fundamentals with good teachers. Things like perspective, composition, color theory, design, rendering, understanding anatomy, and understanding form all make a huge difference.
All of which can be learned at traditional art courses at community colleges. I would never advise anyone to go to a 4 year school for game art. Even more so the art schools that end up costing $60k+
I've already got around 6 years CG experience under my belt, and since the game arts schooling selection here in finland is very slim (mostly focusing on 2D and mobile games) Im really just wondering if its worth the trouble going on a 3.5 year programmer just to learn a bit of art theory (which i already have an intermediate understanding of)
Today, most studios expect engineers to have a least a four year degree. Game design programs are lagging behind a bit. Game art programs are a great opportunity for most-- here's why.
+ 2-4 years of intense focus on your craft and goals
+ networking with other students, faculty, and industry
+ working with a team
+ you should have a least one published game at the end of your degree
+ you can qualify for internships
From personal exp. A few years ago I was working full time and spending every other minute learning stuff on my own. I would work on my art and built mods to gain exp. The thing is-- my full time job was taking 40-50 hrs a week. To me, it made sense to go to school full time, take out loans, so I didn't have to work. This allowed me to spend 100% of my time and energy on my art. I have drastically improved since then.:poly122:
I wouldn't rush a decision like this and see if it's right for you. Look carefully at the schools. Is this school accredited (US), Is this school located near studios? Do any of the teachers work at those studios as well? Does the school have internship opportunities set up? Do you learn better with guidance from a mentor? Are you seriously going to put everything into to make it worth investing the money?
To move up to lead/management role? It will help in this situation. You can do it on experience alone though too but it may be more difficult, especially at larger studios.
To move into a executive/producer role? some degree is probably going to be required here, but a business degree or something, not a "video game" degree.
Yea, I completely agree. Like I said it depends on the having good teachers who know there stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdwzvdZFxVM&feature=player_detailpage#t=1360s
Started at the point where he talks about degree's.... but you should really watch the whole thing
there's no harm having done one of these courses but a good eye, artistic vision and a solid set of portfolio pieces is going to go a lot further (assuming you're fortunate enough to get an interview)
currently im studying automation engineering (not my thing), and im just juggling between sticking with automation and prioritizing free time to practice CG, or to change school to get a degree in art.
If I do end up sticking with automation i'll probably quit once it becomes too time consuming and hopefully i'll have a proper portfolio by then to get a job..
Seriously, what's stopping you then? lol.
considering all the replies I've gotten here I'll probably have to look in to changing school then.
It'd be great to hear from anyone who has been to a game art school in finland but I highly doubt there is anyone like that here..
HOWEVER
lacking a degree keeps a lot of doors closed to you that can be pretty difficult to open. immigration offices don't look at your portfolio, they don't look at how good an artist you are... they look firstly at your education, and then at referrals from your peers. if one or the other of those two isn't strong enough then you probably won't get a visa.
there's an incredible, pretty well renowned artist i know (but won't name, unless they want to pipe up here themselves) who's having trouble with this themselves...
There are such things in here? :O
Formal education? Yea because it helps A LOT!
But even self-taught wizkids can land a job if they are naturals and work hard.
But most important of all is experience... which is a bit "moment 22" if you are fresh out of school for example.
<< Went to a game dev school in Sweden (which is almost Finland
If its not going to cost you anything, its worth doing just for that reason alone.
Also, it will make getting a visa a lot easier, and some large companies actually ask for a relevant degree to even get an interview.
I myself am doing a University Degree at the moment on Games Design, I get to pick specific modules that interest me or that i want to specialize in; in my case - I picked both environmental & character art in contrast to special effects or animation.
However, I would not say its 3 years to work on your portfolio. The first two years are very restrictive; with meanless tasks to complete - especially as the majority of people whom are on the course don't really have experience in the field - these two years are more for them whom are learning the software and about the industry.
The third and final year - is more or less "Portfolio" Year. Again, you pick the modules you like to specialise in; and get creative with a inspecific brief. i.e. "Master and Creature" or "Man and Machine" for character; here you can have as much input as possible; and to a better standard for a portfolio.
As to whether or not you should go; that's entirely on you. I wouldn't change my experience at Uni for the world. This statement isn't about partying - before people assume, its merely the all-nighters working on a hand-in - whilst listening to nyan cat loop or hobbits to isengard for 8 hours throughout the night wight with your friends.
- As for the comment about working at the same time; I work 3 days a week ontop of my studies to fund myself. Its not as easy as you may think.
If its free; and its something your really enjoy; then go for it
- just my 2 cents.
Actually I think that's one of the strongest points of college education. It gives you an environment, with expert tutors, to try out stuff! Young people can be very undecided of what they really want to do, and forcing them into a very specific role right from the start sounds just wrong.
It's much easier if you discover at college that you for example really love animation over modeling. Discovering this during your first or 2nd gig just sucks and career changes can be annoying. College gives you a save environment to try out everything before you specialize - usually on your own time - but who said you can lean back once classes are over?
A degree as in the paper is very useless for a job - in the job world all that matters is experience. Its just wrong how some uni's sell their degrees as tickets into the professional industry.
So the question should be: Does a degree matter for experience?
Not necessarily but it gives you a foundation to build on, learning and building up experience is all hard work you have to do pretty much yourself. Its not something you can pay someone to teach you - its something you have to gradually build up ALL YOURSELF.
Exactly.
However if you decide to go for it, the golden piece of advice I wish I had but did not until the very end is. Do your DEGREE work FOR THE DEGREE. NEVER DO DEGREE WORK FOR YOUR PORTFOLIO. 9 times out of 10, you try and do portfolio work for your degree your marks will suffer. There is no point doing a degree for any other reason than gaining the best possible mark you can from it. Once you have done that work, then work on your portfolio. Plus there seems to be a stigma attached to the line of "This is what I did at University".
If you chose to go to school to learn anything, chose carefully. Can you learn everything on your own? One of my favorite quotes from the movie Good Will Hunting... "You could have got the same education at the library..." However, I would find it hard to believe that if you can learn something on your own, that you wouldn't be able to learn it faster with help from the right people. (why are we here on polycount asking for help, feedback, comments and criticism) Again, if your considering going to school-- specifically for game art (as most programs are fairly new) DO YOUR HOMEWORK.
Make sure the school is credited (US), see if the teachers have or are working in the industry, will you build a project that will be published?, are their alumni being hired, or starting successful companies?, etc...
Again the piece of paper will NOT get you a job. But going to school CAN open doors. Just like you would need to on your own, you must work hard... extremely hard in school. Any art program isn't going to tell you everything you need to do or teach you everything you need learn. Great students (which hopefully we all are) are always learning. This means putting in extra time and going above the assignments when at school.
For every person that says it's not worth the time and money you'll find someone that thinks otherwise.
This all being said though, I've made some good contacts, and I'm working on some fun projects, and it's definitely a stimulating environment to be in, outside of class.
Quick self history, I entered county college graphic design I was doing mods for a while than I got an offer from Epic. I took it, it was a contract gig for a year on Unreal Tournament 2004. I loved it. The contract ended I went back home. Went back to graphic design county college. Got so tired of it that I started to apply for game positions. I got some really great offers, but I turned them down. I decided to enter School of Visual Arts. I knew I was putting a break on my game profession, but I knew at the end I was not going to be able to do what I wanted in a game company besides the work given. So I decided on self study and using School as my means to do it. ( See while I was at Epic I saw the highpoly modeling being do for normal baking next gen stuff and I was god smacked, the game was Gears of War atm called Warfare ) So I wanted to do that. That is why I decided on a personal study and using school for that. But what I did not realize was that taking a computer art degree was the best thing ever. See the computer art program at school of visual arts teaches vfx and movie type production scenarios. I have learned so much about composition, color theory, pacing, and so much more. Artists that do not have those foundations are easy to spot and usually stumble around not knowing why stuff does not mesh together. I am not saying school gives you that, but it helps.
I was like a lot of people on this thread saying school is not important. I think school is important. but if you take school for the wrong reasons than do not go. County College was a waste when I was taking my graphic design degree... well not completely... because I know how to make fake logos for textures...
Since out of school I have had the great opportunity to work at Crystal Dynamics for "Tomb Raider" as Sr. Environment Artist and now I recently moved to Naughty Dog as a Environment Texture Artist. I feel grateful to have and be part of on a new awesome team.
How can I build a building without building a strong foundation.
Every interview I get asked if school was worth it. I say yes. I learned a great deal I would otherwise not cared to learn that helped in the way I see the world now.
I think I would have Regretted not going to school. I would have highly regretted it and not known why. Well SVA was were I met my wife
Getting back into a dropped study is difficult at a later point in time and you may regret not finishing it. I'd say the more options you have the better - having an undergrad degree just gives you more options to where to steer your career in the long run.
I had the same feelings when I studied - waste of time, yadda yadda. But now, 10 years later, I value the education much more and I'm happy I finished.
I learned a lot there but most of the stuff is personnal learning, teachers just points the right direction if you bother to ask them. But what is important with such Schools, is the networking you're creating with your classmates, even if they're in a different class or even degree
Such Schools are also "pools of talents", it's easier for recruiters to look at some students from a school, as there are more people it's easier to find the rare item if you see what i mean, rather than searching for the random awesome portfolio you've seen once somewhere on internet.
The Degree in itself, doesn't mean much, except for Work Visa, but it's what is all around it that is important.
I did a BA and an MA, although my BA was meeeh, my master year was brilliant
For art, portfolio still matters more but for technical stuff, it's the opposite afaik.
This way if they still want to be in the games industry they'll have a much clearer idea of the level of skill required while also having a bit of industry experience.
and I found this Master's Programme in New Media; Game Design and Production ( http://www.aalto.fi/en/studies/education/programme/game_design_production_master/ ) I can pay the expenses to live there ....the school is almost free in Finland compared here. For someone that have a bachelor's diploma in game design and digital entertainment from Brazil it's amazing that it can be so cheap to make a MA there, and I researched and just saw good things about the education and the country...
Go to school if it enables you to get an overseas visa easier.
Don't go to school to save yourself money(if applicable).
Don't go to school if you can motivate yourself.
Degrees don't mean anything when you are in the industry, no one cares about your pieces of paper as long as you produce well and work well in whatever environment you are in. The work you complete trumps any passe notions of achievement from 'accredited' sources.