[Dota2] - Silencer - Inquisitor

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I plan to rework the Silencer to make him more of a red inquisitor/priest/bishop. I see it so much in him already and I think it would be a great angle on the hero. I would like to stick with mostly cloth as is his style in Dota 2 but bringing back some of the plate from his spell breaker days to tie in the shield would be great.

For the most part he is completely symmetrical so breaking that up would be a fun challenge. Another big draw for me is that aside from his legs, chest, and face (all of which are nearly hidden from view) he is open to a complete remake with his items. Furthermore he has so few items on the Workshop that there is plenty of room for creativity.

Update: Finally done. Here is the image I'm about to submit and a link to the steam workship. I played a game with my set on Dota Test last night. It really looks and plays great. So incredibly rewarding.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111332080

Update: Changed the coloring to the new purple. Started work on the new helm that I'll add to the set. Dropped the crown idea after giving it a try and seeing that it just didn't work. I'm working on a version of the helm that has a cowl over it instead. Here is the new/temporary art I have up. I'll get images with the real purple textures once the new helm is done. The screens are all from Dota 2 Test with the new purple textures. Sorry I would have waited until the contest was over but I have been getting too many posts asking about the change. Man I wish they had changed DK instead of silencer!

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Replies

  • Ex4000
    Glad to hear Silencers getting some love, I can give you one tip if you plan on making a shield as part of the set, He holds it at a 45ish degree angle!
  • Welbig
    Thanks! I was/am planning on playing him a few games to get a feel for his animations and how he holds the weapons. Because he has 6 items and each one is so important I'm going to focus on the helm, shoulders, skirt, and shield. The way I figure it the bracers and weapon can go with anything. If I have time I'll throw those in too.
  • Welbig
    Just getting the helm figured out. Shooting for a bishop style hat but in plate helm form. I think the silhouette will be nice from the side and look interesting in game. As for the detail I'm unsure of it at the moment. I'm not sure I want a soled gold line down the middle of the front like the one that appears on the back of the helm. It doesn't seem to translate as well to the front. Either way detail will develop as I move to other items for concepting. Also I'm really having a hard time avoiding adding gold feathers! I must stay away from it to avoid the spell breaker look.

    6636434_orig.jpg
    1120275_orig.jpg

    Some of my reference for the helm.
    6115538_orig.jpg
  • Starcofski
    I love the pope-hat. The concept itself is very sound, will be checking back for updates on occasion!
  • Welbig
    Thank you, his backstory just got me to imagining a mage inquisition. Kind of a mage hunt if you will.
  • RossC
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    RossC polycounter lvl 9
    I also love the pope hat-ish helm. I think you can really do alot with this concept set and its lore. Definitely going to be checking back.
  • Welbig
    Here is a quick mock up of the shoulders and chest. I'm not 100% satisfied with it. the shoulder drapes down the front will need to be more narrow so that there is a gap between them and the center drape. The shoulder black and white may change as well. It was just a filler for the post. Any feedback, critique, and input is valued. Thank you for stopping by.

    1134927_orig.jpg
  • Spudnik
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    Spudnik polycounter lvl 8
    I think it'd be cool to have the helm a little swept towards the back like in some of your reference. Kind of like the shoulder pieces, mostly straight, but a little bit of a curve in it, just to give a tiny bit more dynamic silhouette. Other than that, I'm liking the concept for the shoulders, maybe you could have one of the hanging cloth pieces in the back like you do in the font (but just one instead of 3 for example).
  • Welbig
    When I get to the initial modeling stage I'll play around with your idea for the helm. The shape should basically stay the same so that should be an easy thing to test in Maya. I agree it would look interesting from the back if there was a hanging cloth there as well. I'll see where my tri count budget is at that point. I'm trying to be conservative and I think I'm close but I'd like to not sacrifice too much, haha.
  • Welbig
    Sorry it took me so long to get an update posted. I was out of town for the weekend but I look forward to getting back on track this week. I did an initial concept on the "belt". I hope to largely stick with the mesh that the silencer already has so that I don't lose much time making sure that the weighting is correct. It will be fun alluding to armor plates on the belt. I loaded the silencer up in Alien Swarm and it looks like the belt doesn't wave around too much even in his run so this should work well.

    5140821_orig.jpg
  • Welbig
    Here is the final concept piece. I look to start modeling this week. Any suggestions are always welcome. It isn't final until it's submitted after all.

    2968442_orig.jpg
  • Clyptic
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    Clyptic polycounter lvl 6
    Awesome, love the set and the weapon!
  • jnumber9
  • Welbig
    Thanks guys, I'm really looking forward to finally getting to modeling today. I'll probably start on my lunch break. I'll try to have a post before tomorrow with the start on one of the pieces.
  • Welbig
    Got the base modeled for the glave. It's 6 tris below the original and is able to be 450 so I might try to get a few more in there. I got a start on the shield and my initial estimate is that it will be well below budget as too. I'll probably be able to model in the gem at least.

    6147427_orig.jpg
  • dArth
    That's the best idea in this contest IMO, make it real please !
    Perfectly fits with the character.

    All the stuff is very good but the shield might have his "coat of arms".
    It might look celestial, because Inquisitors pretend that they obey a deity.
    It would maybe work by making some sunbeam-like rays, keeping the circle well drawn of the weapon. :)
    For the circle here is the explanation : circle is the symbol of perfection, and perfection symbolizes the deity.

    Thx for this great concept !
  • Welbig
    I like the idea. I had a hard time with what to do with the shield. Unfortunately I'm not sure what his "coat of arms" is. The closest thing he may have is his crystal design on his chest and I don't want to carry that over in my design. Up to this point I've just tried to make his blue crystals in general a more prominent part of his design. The idea of sun rays may work. The goal for me now is to get the base models done so I can see if my design needs to change based on tri count. That gives me some time to toy around with your idea for the shield while I'm away from Maya.
  • dArth
    Well, by coat of arms, I meant his order's and/or religion's symbol, you know just like medieval houses, they had a blazon. :)
    I think any celestial styled pattern would work.

    I may have a good imagination but not your talent, so I will help you the best I can do :D
  • Ex4000
    Welbig wrote: »
    I like the idea. I had a hard time with what to do with the shield. Unfortunately I'm not sure what his "coat of arms" is. The closest thing he may have is his crystal design on his chest and I don't want to carry that over in my design. Up to this point I've just tried to make his blue crystals in general a more prominent part of his design. The idea of sun rays may work. The goal for me now is to get the base models done so I can see if my design needs to change based on tri count. That gives me some time to toy around with your idea for the shield while I'm away from Maya.

    Designing shields for silencer is a pain in the ass, The default one is to good
  • Welbig
    The original from WC3 or Dota2? The Dota2 one is hard to replace because of the way he holds it and animates. He holds it at that angle the whole time and slams the tip of the shield into the ground for his ult while still holding it at that angle. A typical tower shield wont fit that. The one from WC3 is difficult because I can't make it look like that, haha. That shield design was very nice but unfortunately many curvy shields share that look. I have to avoid it because making him look like the Spell Breaker in any way will get me tossed out.

    Edit for spelling.
  • dArth
    If you keep the same dimensions, by getting edges' both y/x and z values, don't you think it might be possible ?
    Does he hit the ground with the far bottom edge ? If so, then just extend the bottom so that it will have the z value of the original one.
    By the design you created, I would have thought about the shape of a drop, you would get the circle shape referring to the weapon, and the top spike referring to the helmet.

    I hope this has been helpful, have a nice day ! (and some nice work :D)
  • Ex4000
    Welbig wrote: »
    The original from WC3 or Dota2? The Dota2 one is hard to replace because of the way he holds it and animates. He holds it at that angle the whole time and slams the tip of the shield into the ground for his ult while still holding it at that angle. A typical tower shield wont fit that. The one from WC3 is difficult because I can't make it look like that, haha. That shield design was very nice but unfortunately many curvy shields share that look. I have to avoid it because making him look like the Spell Breaker in any way will get me tossed out.

    Edit for spelling.

    The dota 2 one.
  • Welbig
    Base model for the shield. It's skinnier and a bit shorter than the concept because it was too large on his arm. I loaded it to the brim with tris and many of them probably aren't needed but they can be removed and will make reduction for the LOD much easier.

    8228624_orig.jpg
  • Welbig
    Barely made it under budget on this one after a good amount of reduction. Tweeks to the size and height of the shoulders will come after the helmet is made. Also going to have to adjust things so that the shield doesn't hit the shoulders. Belt is nearly done as well, just a bit of time needed to use up the last few tries on that one to improve the silhouette. I'm largely using the belt (kilt/dress) that Valve already made to save me time. A a complete texture rework on it should be enough considering I'm doing 6 items instead of just 3.

    255413_orig.jpg
  • Tvidotto
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    Tvidotto polycounter lvl 7
    man, that is turning amazing

    great work!
  • Welbig
    Finished up the helm and belt all that is left for the base modeling is the bracers. Can't wait to get on to the high poly meshes.

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  • Welbig
    Done with the base models.

    1372668_orig.jpg
  • skrap'D
    Welbig wrote: »
    I plan to rework the Silencer to make him more of a red inquisitor/priest/bishop. I see it so much in him already and I think it would be a great angle on the hero. I would like to stick with mostly cloth as is his style in Dota 2 but bringing back some of the plate from his spell breaker days to tie in the shield would be great.

    For the most part he is completely symmetrical so breaking that up would be a fun challenge. Another big draw for me is that aside from his legs, chest, and face (all of which are nearly hidden from view) he is open to a complete remake with his items. Furthermore he has so few items on the Workshop that there is plenty of room for creativity.

    Update: All that is left for the base model is the bracers. I'll show the "belt" once the bracers are done.

    1372668_orig.jpg
    2968442_orig.jpg

    I think everything looks great, I just wish the shield had the same amount of style that everything else has.Right now it just doesn't feel as cool as the original.
  • Welbig
    I'll look into it. I'm planning on working my way from helm on down the armor and leaving the weapon and shield for last so I'll keep mulling the design over in my head. I've decided to style it more like the armor on his robe at this point and leave out the black and white stripes because it is more narrow than in the concept. Add in the curving lines and another gem to start. I may even toy around with the black and white stripes on the shoulders to bring them more in line with the robe. Keep the white and add curves in the texture.
  • Welbig
    Sorry for not posting for a while. Been doing overtime at work but here is a shot of AO and normal bakes for the helm, shoulders, and bracers (not much touch up done at this point just the bakes). Robe is up next. I have to have my entry done by the 15th because I'm going out of town for the week of Thanksgiving so wish me luck. Also these are 512 textures instead of 256 but the resolution should be pretty good.

    778688_orig.jpg
  • Welbig
    Hey I could use some help. I'm using the fbx export setting recommended by the link below but the skinning information seems to be lost. In Maya I rigged the helm to head_1 but it seems to be skinned to more bones once it is imported. I get an error on opening the maya file but I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. Thanks in advance for the help!

    Edit2: just read further into the FAQ and saw that the Dota2 doesn't update unless you close and restart it. Seems the tutorial must have done the trick after all.

    http://agentfx.blogspot.com/2012/11/dota2-simple-riggingimporting-tutorial.html

    4772516_orig.jpg
  • Clyptic
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    Clyptic polycounter lvl 6
    Looks awesome!
  • Welbig
    Coloring is mostly done. I'll tweak the color map as needed once my uploading issue gets fixed. The masks are done for the helm but not the others. I hope to get this error with uploading done soon so I can get to work clearing up the masks.

    Edit: do the channels for the normal maps for Dota2 follow the same directions as they do in maya? If not what channels do I need to invert?

    2387194_orig.png
  • Welbig
    Just as an update. I'm still hard at work. I haven't been able to post because I've been busy traveling and getting work done. So far the above pieces are at submission level quality (a few adjustments to the shoulder masks maybe). The glave and shield are baked and are being textured. All are rigged though. Also need to pose the beauty shot and get that set up as well. Thanks for the extension! It will give me the time I need to polish and to enjoy my much needed vacation with family. I haven't been home since March so this is a big treat!
  • acest
    love the hat. shoulder pads could be lowered down a bit imho, so he can be more aware of the sides (right now it's completely blocked out), otherwise solid concept, good luck!
  • feral_guy
    Have you thought about a cross сhacrum? like that
    RoAmOurPrXo.jpg
  • Welbig
    Hey guys, thank you for your patients. I've been too busy with work and this contest to actually post my updates in a little while but here goes. This is the model with Diff and Norm in Marm. The assets themselves are 100% ready for submission (modeled, rigged, texturing, masks). At this point I just need to do the marketing shots. Tomorrow I'll be doing lighting and reworking the spec info for Marm.

    PS: Is there a time in the submission process where a person groups all the items into a set? If there is such a time am I able to see all the assets on the hero at the same time? I'm pretty pleased with what I have right now but I have this fear that once I finally see all the assets on him in game something will look a bit off.

    1255344_orig.png
  • Starcofski
    Oh wow, that looks amazing! And to see all items ingame at once, follow the directions in the DOTA thread.
    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1722851&postcount=2728
  • Welbig
    acest- I had considered lowering the shoulders and it's probably something I should have done but I managed to rig it in such a way that it doesn't collide with the head too much so I let it go. With the amount time I had/have to dedicate to this contest I guess I had to choose my battles.

    feral_guy- I thought long and heard about using a cross. The one you have pictured may have been a great choice but I chose to not get too literal with the inquisitor theme. Part of me still isn't sure using the "ring around the collar" was a good idea. The helm, high proud shoulders, drapes, and robe should be enough to sell it. Being unable to find a good choice of emblem I chose to really roll with the gems the original assets have. The gems along with the curved yellow lines give it a great look without needing a true symbol. If only each character had a distinct symbol like the OmniKnight.

    Starcofski- Thanks for the complement and the help! I'll get on that tomorrow. I'm excited about the marketing renders but I'd much rather know that the in game items work well together.

    As always thank you for your feedback!
  • Clyptic
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    Clyptic polycounter lvl 6
    Looks awesome! I think the shoulders look good as is.
  • feral_guy
    all the same, this is best set for silenser. i hope to see it in the game soon :)
  • Welbig
    Clyptic and Feral_Guy, thanks a lot guys :) I hope to see it there too!
  • Welbig
    Finally done. Here is the image I'm about to submit and a link to the steam workship. Images are rendered in Marmoset. Managed to play with my gear on last night on Dota Test. I have to say it was so rewarding!

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111332080

    8239487151_4fc859cd14_h.jpg
  • Clyptic
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    Clyptic polycounter lvl 6
    I love it! Soo well done :D
  • Welbig
    Thanks Clyptic :)

    Here are the screens I took while playing:

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  • Welbig
    Why are they changing the color on the Silencer 3 days after the contest ends? :(
  • Welbig
    There has been news that the silencer color pallet will be changing from red to most likely purple. I'm trying to find out what that means for my set. As a whole it would pretty easy to change the color to purple if that is what it ends up being. Red is a far better choice but I'll find a way to make it look just as good. Also because I'll have to change the color and by extension all of the marketing images I'm going to work on a new helm design. The response to my helm isn't what I had hoped but I'm planning on making one that looks more like a crown of some sort. It should help bridge the gap to purple as well. I wont replace the old one I'll just add a new one to the existing collection. So the set will just have 2 helms. Thank you all for your support, complements, and critiques. As always if you have suggestions please feel free to share them.
  • Jalcober
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    Jalcober polycounter lvl 6
    I dont think the change in color will be a problem. Valve will probably contact you if they want you to change the colors before they add it.
  • Naso
    I would just change it now, they finalized the dark purple color and it looks really good! ( don't upload it tho, I don't known there policy on that )
  • Clyptic
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    Clyptic polycounter lvl 6
    That sucks...the red looks so much better. An like you said, this is a terrible time to change it as the contest just ended.
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