Soul Calibur II - Money Pit stage re-design

mistermojo

Final Update:




So it turns out I've had a Polycount account for a long time but I haven't really posted anything I'm hoping that all the talent on this website will help me develop my own skills and I'd be grateful for any feedback I'm primarily hoping to be a concept artist but if you want to see some other 3D stuff I've done I have a section for it on my DeviantArt account. I also have quite a bit of digital painting on there if anyone is interested.

Anyway, onto the project at hand:

I'm currently a final year university student and I have been given the task of re-designing a stage from a fighting game. This re-design must have a realistic art style and have significant design changes, whilst still being recognisable.

I'll try and use a modular workflow as I intend to import this into UDK; I will be using 3DS Max and ZBrush to model

To my shame I don't really play fighting games, but I have settled on the Money Pit - Top Tier stage as it appears in Soul Calibur II:



I plan on re-creating this location hundreds of years after the events of SC2, where the area is decayed/damaged and overgrown.

Creating a ruined version could work well as the game's story already has the underground structures damaged by flooding - this could extend to the top tier and provide many interesting design ideas, such as hanging vines and trees extending down into the pit, water flooding out of cracks in the walls, collapsed columns and archways etc. This would also make for some great high-detail sculpting for normal maps, thinking about cracks and chipped stonework. The textures could also be overhauled, by using plant growth extending down the walls. Certain features, such as the fighting stage itself could be damaged, with some of the ropes holding it up broken. I feel this would create a very mysterious atmosphere, as I was originally intending. By hiding the features of the level behind damage and decay it would hint at the location's past.

I will hopefully post more progress soon, I won't bore you with the other wall of text I've written which goes more in depth into my research.

mistermojo

Just gonna skip out the wall of research/value studies I've done and show some semi-interesting progress. I've realised I've given myself a lot of work to do and I have much to learn... but that's all part of the fun

Colour experiments:



I felt number 1 was the best here, utilizing colours was as much about setting a mood as it was about picking the colours for the separate objects - design 1 gives an old, musky feel to the environment which is the kind of thing I'm aiming for.

Semi-finalised concept:

motenai

1,2,6 are my favorite, with a preference for 1 maybe

TigerGD

I like 5. The white light evokes the hope someone might feel upon discovering this ruin. Might also give a more effective light bounce if you decide to make the only light source from above through the mouth of the pit.











http://vimeo.com/10741363

mistermojo

motenai wrote: »

1,2,6 are my favorite, with a preference for 1 maybe

TigerGD wrote: »

I like 5. The white light evokes the hope someone might feel upon discovering this ruin. Might also give a more effective light bounce if you decide to make the only light source from above through the mouth of the pit.

Thanks for the feedback this is why I like getting a second opinion, to be honest I thought 5 and 6 were the weakest but I didn't see their merits.

I agree with the light, one of the issues I might have is getting enough light into the scene, hence the lit torches in the middle... but if it's meant to be an undiscovered ruin the torches wouldn't be lit. I was hoping to light the distant rooms using natural light from holes in the ceiling.

I'm not even sure if I'll have time to model the pit opening with all the foliage I want to include, but we'll see I want this to look good on a portfolio...


I thought I'd use this thread to dump all the stuff I'm currently working on to avoid cluttering P&P with it. Below is my current character concept for another module where I have to model for a handheld games platform, meaning I have a 2000 tri limit; could be fun!

Again I'll avoid posting all my research:

Blaisoid

cool redesign, your version has a nice atmosphere.
one thing caught my attention - if ropes are so loose then what keeps the arena in the air?

mistermojo

Blaisoid wrote: »

cool redesign, your version has a nice atmosphere.
one thing caught my attention - if ropes are so loose then what keeps the arena in the air?

Thanks!

Very good point...

nathanbarrett

Maybe have just one or two ropes snapped

mistermojo

I have a ridiculous amount of work to do on other stuff at the moment but I've blocked out the scene in Max to UDK scale, and had a go at the torch model in Zbrush. I'm fairly new to Zbrush so feedback is welcome

Started the retop just to get a feel for it...seems very awkward in Zbrush and it's taking me ages, it's very hard to see where the vertices are and everytime I move the camera I have to reselect the vertex I want, is there something I'm doing wrong?

leleuxart

I don't play any fighting games either, but the level you chose looks like it'll be fun to work with. I like 5, just because the colors are more realistic and work well with the natural white light.

For the pillar though, it looks... soft. The stones don't really come off as stones to me. And for retopo, I usually export out the high-poly mesh, then decimate the lowest level and export that for the low-poly. It's usually still way too high, so I'll take it into MeshLab and/or Maya and reduce it some more(while keeping an eye on the silhouette). Eventually, you'll get to a point where reducing it will affect the silhouette, but you can still manually merge vertices yourself and cut it down a little more.

Subscribing

SaferDan

Yeah that pillar needs more trim dynamic and more Hpolish! It looks a bit blobby right now!

ysalex

About zbrush retopo - zbrush requires you to re select a vertice only when you click outside of the canvas area. So if you are clicking outside of the canvas in order to move your model, then you will have to re select. Try maximizing your canvas and focus on using blank space behind your model to move, and you vert will stay selected.

Everything's lookig good, great concept and colors.

Blaisoid

i think it would be a better idea to make a more detailed base mesh in some conventional modeling software and then work on all the damage in zbrush.

at the moment the clay feel is really strong and i don't think it will be easy to get rid of it. forms that you have there are just too organic and undefined.

mistermojo

leleuxart wrote: »

I don't play any fighting games either, but the level you chose looks like it'll be fun to work with. I like 5, just because the colors are more realistic and work well with the natural white light.

For the pillar though, it looks... soft. The stones don't really come off as stones to me. And for retopo, I usually export out the high-poly mesh, then decimate the lowest level and export that for the low-poly. It's usually still way too high, so I'll take it into MeshLab and/or Maya and reduce it some more(while keeping an eye on the silhouette). Eventually, you'll get to a point where reducing it will affect the silhouette, but you can still manually merge vertices yourself and cut it down a little more.

Subscribing

SaferDan wrote: »

Yeah that pillar needs more trim dynamic and more Hpolish! It looks a bit blobby right now!

Blaisoid wrote: »

i think it would be a better idea to make a more detailed base mesh in some conventional modeling software and then work on all the damage in zbrush.

at the moment the clay feel is really strong and i don't think it will be easy to get rid of it. forms that you have there are just too organic and undefined.

ysalex wrote: »

About zbrush retopo - zbrush requires you to re select a vertice only when you click outside of the canvas area. So if you are clicking outside of the canvas in order to move your model, then you will have to re select. Try maximizing your canvas and focus on using blank space behind your model to move, and you vert will stay selected.

Everything's lookig good, great concept and colors.

Cheers for the feedback guys, had another go at the pedestal (figured out what it's called now ). In the end I followed a similar process to leleuxart's and used Max/Polydraw to do a quick retop, I'm going to call this finished now as I'm on a tight schedule, I could easily spend all week messing with the damn thing

mistermojo

Haven't posted in a while, I've now modelled all of the basic assets + high poly stuff where needed. I plan on going over things again to polish them but for now I have some other modules to focus on unfortunately...I'd like to add a bit more variety too, broken versions of assets/foliage etc. Platform needs a few more polys too:





I don't want to spam the thread with every single model but here are a few of the high poly sculpts:

sybrix

Hey, making solid progress. I really like how the scene is coming together. I know you're on a tight schedule but I really think you'd benefit from spending a little more time exploring Zbrush. Right now all the sculpted assets look very doughy and soft, a lot like actual clay but not very stone like. It's okay to have some straighter and defined edges on stone - even ancient ones.

Also they would look pretty cool with some cracks in there. What brushes are you mainly using? I'm still new to Zbrush but I find the TrimDynamic brush is great on breaking up edges and keeping that hard stoney feel, and setting it to Color Spray and digging in an area can give you a nice pitted/eroded effect. I also like Orb's crack brush (can be found easily via Google) to sculpt gashes in there, and harden the edges with maybe Hpolish or TrimDynamic (sculpting near the edge instead of on it can tighten them up a little I've found)

Anyway your concepts looked great and I can't wait to see this finished. Gogogo!

mistermojo

sybrix wrote: »

Hey, making solid progress. I really like how the scene is coming together. I know you're on a tight schedule but I really think you'd benefit from spending a little more time exploring Zbrush. Right now all the sculpted assets look very doughy and soft, a lot like actual clay but not very stone like. It's okay to have some straighter and defined edges on stone - even ancient ones.

Also they would look pretty cool with some cracks in there. What brushes are you mainly using? I'm still new to Zbrush but I find the TrimDynamic brush is great on breaking up edges and keeping that hard stoney feel, and setting it to Color Spray and digging in an area can give you a nice pitted/eroded effect. I also like Orb's crack brush (can be found easily via Google) to sculpt gashes in there, and harden the edges with maybe Hpolish or TrimDynamic (sculpting near the edge instead of on it can tighten them up a little I've found)

Anyway your concepts looked great and I can't wait to see this finished. Gogogo!

Thanks for the feedback I appreciate the tips, been using ZBrush on and off for a year or so but never bothered to actually knuckle down and learn it properly. I'm mainly using hPolish to sharpen up the edges and Claybuildup for generic holes/damage and detail. I started using a noise brush to stop everything looking too smooth but it never worked that well. I'll try out some of your tips as soon as I find time

mistermojo

The pedestal was nagging at me so I went back and spent an hour or so trying to refine it a bit more, I think it looks a bit better now:

mistermojo

Spent the day getting everything into UDK, lines up fairly well. Apologies for the awful lighting errors, nothing's been unwrapped or mapped yet. Just wanted to make sure everything works in engine

mistermojo

Haven't updated in a while, been very busy though, everything's been unwrapped and lightmapped, started on the textures now. It's a steep learning curve but I'm quite happy with it so far, lots to fix though, so feel free to rip into it

Will add detail screenshots at a later date:

Progg

Your shapes are getting really blobby. In Zbrush try using an HPolish with a really hard alpha over the detail to sharpen it out. A common workflow i use on stone is to start with a trim dynamic to wear down some 90degree corners, then go over that with a very sharp alpha HPolish. Your cracks also dont look intentional. They look like they were just slapped on and not actually caused by wear and tear on the surfaces. Try using dam_standard or Orb's brush for cracks. draw in a rough crack, mask around and inflate the outer edges to make it look more sunken in, then HPolish it back out. Dont use a soft alpha

mistermojo

Progg wrote: »

Your shapes are getting really blobby. In Zbrush try using an HPolish with a really hard alpha over the detail to sharpen it out. A common workflow i use on stone is to start with a trim dynamic to wear down some 90degree corners, then go over that with a very sharp alpha HPolish. Your cracks also dont look intentional. They look like they were just slapped on and not actually caused by wear and tear on the surfaces. Try using dam_standard or Orb's brush for cracks. draw in a rough crack, mask around and inflate the outer edges to make it look more sunken in, then HPolish it back out. Dont use a soft alpha

I agree with you on that one, unfortunately time constraints prevented me from working further on the high-polys but I'll get some practice in when I have free time. Really liking your work by the way, might have to ask for some advice as I'm also modelling a darksiders-style character

Here's today's progress, mostly behind-the-scenes leg work today, split off the wheel arch sections, water grate and main arch and re-unwrapped them so I can use the tiling wall texture. Also changed the dirt unwrap and texture so that it now tiles improving the resolution in UDK and saving me some texture space. Also textured the arches and made a vertex painting shader which helps a little with the dirt/brick blending. At the moment the wall texture blends with the now-tileable dirt texture saving me another 1024x1024 so I've got more room for the pillars and doors (my total texture budget is 4096x4096)

mistermojo

Some more textures:

mistermojo

More progress:

maxivz

The brick textures look some kind of blury to me, like its really low res

TigerGD

You could put some algae on the bricks under the waterfall, and some staining under the water wheels. I also think you should find a better way to attach the ropes, or at least obscure their points of attachment with some kind of covering. I like the foliage spilling over the edge at the top of the pit in your concepts, and hope to see that in your final.

mistermojo

maxivz wrote: »

The brick textures look some kind of blury to me, like its really low res

Fair enough, can't see it myself, whereabouts? To be honest I made the wall texture a bit too high res compared to the rest of it

Updates:

mistermojo

TigerGD wrote: »

You could put some algae on the bricks under the waterfall, and some staining under the water wheels. I also think you should find a better way to attach the ropes, or at least obscure their points of attachment with some kind of covering. I like the foliage spilling over the edge at the top of the pit in your concepts, and hope to see that in your final.

Thanks for the feedback, I missed your reply but I did do a very lazy fix on the ropes, will sort something better out hopefully if I get some spare time. I've added some foliage but it needs tweaking, maybe get some vines in there too Got a little bit of texture space left so I'll have a go at some vertex painting to dirty up some of the assets. It does look a bit weird that only the walls/floor/ceiling are covered in dirt/moss.

mistermojo

Another update with vines and some tweaks, this is almost done now as deadline's looming, pretty pleased with it for a first 'proper' modelling project and a first go at an environment with UDK.

Think the lighting might need a tweak, annoying that light shafts don't render with tiledshot...

mistermojo

No-one got any feedback for me?

leleuxart

I like where you're at now, but the colors are too brown. The original level, and your sketches, include multiple areas of different light colors. It looks like you've got blue on the bottom, brown/orange in the middle, and green in the top. I'd try putting more emphasis on the blues and greens and possibly incorporate them in the middle area.

Blaisoid

yeah, lighting on your concepts was much more interesting. and also currently the arena seems to be recieving more light than it should considering that it's a deep hole in the ground.

another thing, brick texture has highlights from below. are you sure that normal map isn't flipped?

mistermojo

Thanks guys I agree with the feedback, definitely need to work on the lighting a bit more but I added some post process, fixed the normal maps on the walls and floor, covered up the seam in the dirt wall and tweaked the lighting in places. Also managed to find a way to get rid of all the LOD-ing on the lightmaps by messing around with the Engine.ini, this has gotten rid of the weird shadow smudges which get worse as you move away from the static mesh.

The light rays don't show up with tiledshot but I can't get them to look that great anyway. It also doesn't make sense seeing them as the light source is above the camera.

mistermojo

Now that everything's handed in I have some time to post a few more shots I'm calling it finished but feedback is still welcome of course for next time