Art Institute fires animation teacher who won't pimp their useless e-books
polycounter lvl 10
http://bit.ly/PcyWXg
Animation artist Mike Tracy claims that his school, the Art Institute of CaliforniaOrange County, judges teachers by another criteria: how many e-textbooks each teacher sells to their students.
Tracy, who has taught drawing and digital painting for eleven years at AICOrange County, felt that his class didnt require the textbooks he was suddenly being asked to sell and told the school that he would prefer to teach without them. Tracys reward for working in the best interest of his cash-strapped, loan-burdened students was a termination notice from the school.
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Remember students go to for profit schools (all schools are technically for profit) to make a profit. Students also have to know what kind of school they are going to and what the accreditation requires of them. If they dont like it, they dont have to go to the school. It is their responsibility.
In short he over reacted and made a fuss. It helps neither his "cause", the students or the school. Talk about a pointless protest.
I took a good few classes from Tracy, and he's an amazing individual, and an even better professor. Teachers like him are the only reason to go to an Ai.
also, your negativity sucks imo, Dataday, but thanks for chiming in anyways though. :thumbup:
I think part of his protest stems from the fact that the Art Institutes are requiring students to by ebooks from a specific supplier, and the books will expire after 5 years. Students who prefer to buy used physical copies of the books are still required to purchase the ebook (link).
I've been teaching game development for 7 years, and have been an animator for 11 years. I'm required to list a book, but I just pick one of the books they already have. If I was forced to pick a book and teach from it, I honestly would quit teaching. My course is designed around my experience as an animator, and my practice in game development.
The people a step above the teachers (and maybe the program director) have absolutely NO IDEA how the industry they're selling actually works or how it should be taught. Nor do they care to learn or listen to those who know.
Is having a book a good idea? absolutely. build your library. I hate ebooks, i want a hard copy. I don't want to pay for it twice. I don't want to be forced to get one if i don't have to have it.
I got through school without buying any books except for the couple that i actually wanted for myself. Saved my broke self hundreds of dollars - and every core class I had listed optional books that were never really taught from.
The tech moves to fast for them to be especially useful and most of the information you need is better learned from the experience of your instructor. It's not a classic theater class for pete's sake. art is best learned from masters, not from books. That's the way it's been since the freaking RENNAISSANCE.
if a book helps, great. if the teacher doesn't think it's necessary, he can tell his students and they can decide. Forcing them to buy it when it's not necessary and they're likely not going to use it in the course is despicable. Allowing teachers to only teach from books who's publishers you've bullied into joining your club to maximize your profit margin on top of that is criminal.
I wouldnt call it negativity, but rather a call to face reality. If anything, arnt you the one being negative? You clearly made a big deal out of nothing major, the instructor did the same and as a result probably embarrassed his students and fellow co workers, it also got him fired.
Did it help anyone? Did he accomplish anything?
My point here is that if you (or anyone else, including the instructor) have a beef with students having to get books as part of the accreditation process, then promote better alternatives while making sure students get the best education they can for the money they spend. Students have to know what they are getting into when going to any school, they are not blameless either. The irony is that most of his students are probably going to AI to get for profit jobs.
Now if the ebooks are forced to come from one publisher, and they expire but also cost quite a bit more than normal books... then sure point out how it can be perceived as bad, but dont go being a martyr for a cause thats really not that serious at the end of the day. The thing here is that its not just private universities or trade schools, but all major universities.
If you feel that people are getting taken advantage of, then react in a productive manner, one that actually would help students. An instructor that liked their students wouldnt leave them hanging out to dry like that.
Can someone is laymans term explain what is going on? So far I see alot of shouting, but not the origin.
OK, I'll show myself out.
I still have my 10 year old college math book and its one of the best math books I ever had... expiring? wtf???
The management was directly compromising his ability to teach.
I'm sure there are, occasionally, good instructors and good educations to be had at an Art Institute, despite the management's best efforts.
But as a reminder of the general racket that is the Art Institute system, and how they're exploiting the financial aid system and undermining confidence in higher education in general, even when they exist as "higher education" only as a technicality so they can profit from suffering, please confer: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/education/09forprofit.html
The college has a $50-75 fee per class for e-books (that it seems like it just part of tuition.)
The only books to choose from are published by a college partner.
You can buy a paper copy if you want but that's on top of the e-book fee.. otherwise your e-book 'expires' in 5yrs.
How so? by asking him to assign or pick a book for his students? That compromised his ability to teach a class he argued didnt even need a book?
If so he is a horrible instructor.
All schools exploit the financial aid system, it is inherently broken and used primarily by those who benefit from students being on loans as well as what money they can get from those loans, this includes instructors in unions as well as the administrations. Watch this documentary about it: [ame="
I have been in both "higher education" and for profit schools. I have a few degrees under my belt and learned that there is nothing truly higher about higher education. For Profts dont undermine or hurt the image of "higher education". Some schools are good, some are not. Just have to look at the students they accept and pump out.
Again watch that documentary, it will certainly make you think.
[ame="
Maybe this is all wrong, and I know that, but so far, in terms of For-Profit Schools this is the standard procedure I have seen in every one of them, be the cheap 17K one or the full price 170K one.
The most I have seen teachers do is say that any 'copies' of the book you bring in class are just that, 'copies' and that you have an 'original' one at home, a simple way to bypass the system, in essentially saying you don't want to damage your fine book.
Hell, in some cases you could even freely download an old edition of the book, as long as you said 'I have one at home' *wink wink*.
I'm still confused as to why this is just right now coming out? I thought this was well known in almost all circles, and considering Game Dev is picking up speed, you will only see archaic process being ingrained in it in terms of outlines in the schools for said courses.
Either way, good luck to the 'good guys involved' in said issue, although you can only hope to change so much from private-schools.
This is all true when I was in school, 7 years ago!
Anyone thinking bout college better watch this...
Thanks for the documentary, it was really good.
That being said, I still don't understand your seeming contempt for the actions of the teacher in question. I understand you work in the education system, and I'm certain you do your very best to educate your students in spite of the system's apparent corruption and greed.
I don't think that puts you in a position to lay your judgement on somebody who, when faced with the true nature of the same system, refused to continue to take part in it and took a stand for his beliefs and principles.
His actions may seem rash to you who doesn't see the textbook thing as a major issue and more of a small annoyance. To him, though, it may have been the straw that broke the camels back after dealing with the other elements in the system for some time. Or maybe it was just something he felt was symbolic of the greater problems in some way. No matter what the motivations, his actions have the potential to instigate a forum among graduates, teachers, students and potential students on the benefits or lack thereof within the system of post-highschool education - and that can ONLY be a good thing.
Every time something of this nature happens there is the opportunity to broadcast the problems that cause it to more and more people. It raises awareness in general to the greater problems in our world - the same is true of any subject matter.
You may not agree with his motivations or actions, but that doesn't make them any more important to him or a lot of other people.
Tracy stood up to a system on what some may think is a minor problem. The fact is that he STOOD UP. He was fired for it, yes. He will no longer be in a position to educate and help those students to reach their potential. True.
You and others may feel that it's better to deal with the system in order to help your students - that you need to be there to protect them from greater harm from the system in any way you can.
That doesn't give you or anyone else the right to say that somebody has made the wrong decision if they feel they could better serve their students and the professional community in general by taking a stand for what they feel is right, even at the cost of their job and position to teach.
I think that both are equally as noble and necessary to our world and our industry.
That being said: Game art needs some atiliers. I personally think that studios with the capacity should take on "students" and work the whole system like an apprenticeship > internship > job readiness...and save as many people from the corrupt and greedy education system as possible.
my 6 cents. I'm not opposed to your position, Dataday. Just your opposition.
For profit means just that. They are out to get a buck and that's it. Though, at the non-for-profit Universities it's still the same. It's just done in a shady way, not the up front "fuck you" way of for-profit.
It also included Markers, colored pencils, sketchpad, T-Square and a variety of erasers. All totally MAYBE $50 retail value. For $300 bucks they should have given us a Wacom, a hard-drive or hell an IPod.
So stupid. I kept most of that crap unused in my closest until last year because I felt bad for wasting $300 bucks.
That is fine and you are free to object to my objection. For the record I am not an instructor nor do I teach for a living. I just have multiple degree's under my belt from both the UC system and a "for profit" school. I have seen both worlds and am not impressed by either, they are more common than most realize.
In short, what I see is an instructor who goes to work for a school that has policies HE SHOULD already know about since he applied there... then refuses to assign a book to his students, makes more drama and then gets fired. End of story.
It doesnt seem noble, nor great, nor effective... just pointless.
The accreditation requires all students MUST have a textbook as part of the course. If they refused to give the students a book, the accreditation could have been revoked and those students wouldnt have gotten a degree.
SO imagine, he gets his way and the students dont get a book. Then later down the line, they dont get an accredited degree but still owe money to the school. That messes up the students. In short he was being selfish and not showing wisdom in how to deal with what he doesnt like.
Instead of refusing, he should have did what was best for the students while constructively pushing for a better solution with the right people.
Again all he did was throw a fit at the students expense and then got fired. I just cant have sympathy for that kind of reaction.
I think those who understand the system would see this. No one is claiming the education system is perfect, or without money making schemes (this is a problem with the education system as a whole, not one school).
So I think when you can see the bigger picture, look at what he did objectively, you would have the same reaction as I did.
Imagine if he took that same attitude at a game studio while it was in full production? It is not a good example to set.
Pointless protest! Sir you either are making 50k a month or havent been to college at all.
Textbooks / e-textbooks arent forced upon students to buy however professor should suggest you with A BOOK relevant to the course doesnt matter if he gives lecture from that book or not. Infact many professors use their own notes to teach the class. Its time for even a student to call it quits when they actually are forced to buy books (even if it's from a specific supplier while having the book relevant to the class) plus the tuition fees. Today college/univ seems like less profit for students with less education and more profit for the college/univ. Its a shame really. Its not just private colleges anymore.
EDIT: I signed up that petition tho I am not sure if my vote will count.
It's only pointless if nobody cares. Even if this gesture changes nothing in the schools policies or procedures, the fact that it's generating a lot of petition signatures and even just people discussing it tells me there's a point to it.
It's true, every class must require a text for accredidation purposes.
While i was attending AI, I avoided buying texts for classes i didn't care about. All of the core game art classes had required texts listed on the syllabus.
The teachers, however, made it clear that the books weren't necessary unless we wanted to have them. Often they would be accompanied by a long list of good books for us to add to our library. Always, however, we were informed (off the record) by the instructor that they would not be teaching "from the book". we would not be tested directly from the text. Our instruction would come from guided practice of the tools and principles, along with the benefit of the instructors personal experience and know how.
not a single core class i EVER had at AI had a text that we ABSOLUTELY had to have to learn the course material.
this system worked just fine - but it didn't make the school money. it saved the students money.
As i said before: every teacher at my AI objected quite vocally to the policy before it was implemented. There was a deliberate attempt directly from the instructors all over the school to keep it from happening - and they were completely ignored. The "right people" didn't care.
and i think those who understand the system would better serve the greater population by expressing something other than apathy or worse - contempt for those who "make drama"
So I think when you can see the bigger picture, look at what he did objectively, you would have the same reaction as I did. [/QUOTE]
seeing the bigger picture i come to a completely different reaction. I see a system that has outgrown it's use and has become a predator.
I see your apathy as prey behavior. just throw up your hands "that's the way the system works. deal with it. nothing we can do."
I see a teacher who decided he wouldn't bow the a corrupt and greedy system, and i see a lot of interest being generated by people who agree.
here's the fact: the system is borken, greedy, and corrupt. It also requires people to feed on. If people start actually CARING that it's this way, they'll stop walking into it's mouth.
Game art is in a somewhat unique position, though.
We are relatively small and relatively tight community.
There is always potential, in some small way, to fight back. Polycount does this just by it's mere existence: Here is a place to learn how to learn everything you need to know to do this job. Here is a place to practice and hone your skills under the guidance of a community of peers and superiors who try their best to see you get better.
More of this happening in other parts of the industry and it will become more and more apparent to hopefuls of this industry that they don't need to go into indentured servitude to get a job doing something they'll love doing.
and every time somebody stands up to something that is out of controll, corrupt, greedy and HUGE increases the resistance to that thing.
personally i'd like to see less complaining about it and more efforts to change it, even futile ones like this.
I promote intelligent and well reasoned approaches, not knee jerk reactions that just end up hurting you or someone else. I would weigh the pros and cons, look at the bigger picture and see what the source is and how to fix rather than fight the problem.
This cannot logically turn into "you are just fine with the way things are" interpretations. If he wanted results that were productive and helped both students and staff, they he wouldnt have gotten fired over it nor reacted the way he did.
You have to take the emotional response out of the equation if you plan on leading a team much less a business anywhere else. Professional attitudes go a long way in the work place. Knowing when and where to pick your fights is critical. Those who learn how to do that are successful, those who dont...well they are fired.
This isnt about frowning upon his character, but rather the choices he decided to make.
Of course it doesnt matter if the instructor teaches from a book or not, in fact the best dont need to. The book is supposedly supposed to serve as reference, though in reality it is tied to accreditation requirements. Meet the requirements and you qualify for a degree, the school qualifies for giving out degrees as well as financial aid for students.
I think that refusing to comply wont help his cause. He should find a solution. A few books over the course of time for a degree you basically buy to make profit is not the end of the world. Its a small matter that can be done intelligently over time.
I agree that the entire education system is messed up, but that's an entirely different subject.
I am more siding with you earn 50k a month because you sir are repeatedly saying that its not the end of the world. That finencial aid you speak of, you do realize that you will have to endup paying it doesnt matter if you get a job after you graduate or not.
Also you think wrong. A rightful way of using the book is indeed as a reference and nothing more, unless the material is completely unknown to you. Professors should be required to SUGGEST a book relevant to the subject for the course unless they decide to follow with a book (This means not forced in to picking a book for his class even if his teaching methods require him to pick a book.)
I wasnt talking about the system being messed up, I was talking about them finding ways to gain more profit by FORCE then giving students something in return. Which exactly what happened here.
What? You are being offensive from the start. For one take your own advice and pick your fights accordingly. You do not have to be a dick in this thread that promotes something that you are against. Although you are fully entitled to your opinion and it is appreciated that you posted here but please, if you dont have anything positive to say in this thread kindly leave.
Actually, I am still paying off my student loans. I have 2 bachelors and one associates degree. UCSC & trade school.
The cost of books was hardly a dent in the over all cost compared to what each credit cost me plus living expenses.
Did you watch the documentary I posted? Highly recommend it.
The fallacy of your argument is that you go to school to learn what is unknown to you, therefore by your reasoning every school should teach from the book no? Even if the material or content is unknown, it doesnt mean you have to follow it from the first to last pages. Most text books include index's and or table of content for a reason. If you need to follow a book from start to finish, then why take a class with an instructor thats there to do it for you?
Professors can be instructors but not all instructors can be professors. So lets just call him an instructor, because he clearly hasnt met the requirements to be a professor. That said..
Again it is the accreditation that requires all classes to have printed and probably published course material. What part of this are you struggling with?
All instructors can suggest a book, just like anyone else, though if the requirements for accreditation call for a book in every class... then as an adult, you make the conscious choice to try and get a degree associated with that accreditation. This means, if you want that accreditation's degree qualification, you have to knowingly accept their requirements, if you dont, dont try to get their piece of paper saying you met their requirements.
If you dont like the accreditation's requirements, impore them to change it. This isnt rocket science here.
I am just not sure you understand how the accreditation system works, you dont have to agree with it but you accept it if you are wanting the degree associated with their requirements. No one is forced to do anything when they made the initial conscious choice. They can drop out at any time.
Thats exactly what you are talking about, though you may not know it. The whole education system is about profit. Adults go to schools, pay money to get a magic piece of paper that lets them also make profit.
Question, do you think an employer should be forced to pay an individual who got a degree more than the one who didnt? Some food for thought.
No, getting offended does not require someone to be offensive. Both are also highly subjective. You were offended by my opinion. If I am offended by your opinion about my opinion, does that make you then offensive from the start?
Just stop and think for a second. Try not to let your emotional response carry you away from looking at this objectively.
You say I am against something this thread promotes, can you name specifically what I am against?
Is this thread some how one of those "you are either with me or against me" kind of threads? Is there no middle ground?
Finally what you perceive as positive might not be what someone else perceives as positive, just as what you perceive as negative might not be what someone else perceives as negative.
No hard feelings.
I'm very confused by your viewpoint. Nobody walked up to the barefooted girl and said "support the war or else".
If somebody at my job asks me to do something I think is immoral, I'm either going to quit or get fired, because I won't do it. It's not pointless, it's not me trying to make some sort of statement or trying to "fight the man", it's just me doing what I feel like doing.
There's a problem with someone doing that? It seems reasonable enough to me. I don't think apathy is an inappropriate response to this, like I said it seems like someone just doing what they feel they should be doing, nothing unusual there. But your views seem to be laced with a small amount of venom (why is he overreacting? because he did something you would not?), and I'm not sure what the reason for it is.
Well good for you sir. Do let us know how long will take you to pay that debt off. According to the youtube video that you've posted a minimum cost of a book in college / univ is about $200.00 and up.
Fallacy of my argument? lol. Ok read my statement again and tell me what I said because I had to re-read my post when I read yours. First of all I said; "UNLESS THE MATERIAL IS COMPLETELY UNKNOWN TO YOU." I am sure your high school may have done a finest job in teaching you most of the stuff you've used in college / univ. For me the only times I bought books were when I had to take maths / discrete maths / Software Architecture because I had to deal with equations in those classes on daily basis and even if the professor / instructor would "suggest" the books to us, we knew that we had to have one. For other classes like programming and some what business, our instructors told us from start that "These are the books required for this course. However; Everything we'll learn in this class are from lectures, practicals and they will be in exam. We wont be touching the book."
Its not like the dean of the course demanded them to make their students to buy the books that may not be used through out the term. I am not sure if your college have brain washed you in to buying books but here where I live. They always provide us with lectures practicals and suggest us to buy books. They dont force us nor are forced to make us buy books even if the books are to be used through out the term. So, no fallacy there.
The part where our beliefs offends you and you believe that your opinion matters after giving us that sort of attitude. You are not the only student graduated out of college / univ and followed the system, there are other grad students here who financially struggled and did their best to get through. On top of that when we contradict your beliefs, you turn to be so aggressive, offensive and want to make us believe that you are right. Which we dont have to believe. Perhaps you should look in to how posting one's personal opinion works in the discussion forums.
If colleges start doing that maybe its time for everyone to take a stand because that accreditation's call is way out of line, even for students.
That's what the ex-instructor who was wrongfully fired for his beliefs is trying to do in this thread.
So you mean to say that if I wanted a degree I had to have tons of books stated in my course outline, doesnt matter if I use them or not? Wont you agree that its a waste of alot of money?
That Glorious magic piece of paper is the result of you passing all the classes with good grades. That pass of the courses, states that you know the material. This has nothing to do with the book.
Completely different subject sir. An employer should pay an individual based on how much experience he has and how he implements that experience in to his workflows.
I wasn't offended by your opinion actually I was offended by the way you stated it. Especially in the thread where everyone else is supporting the instructor who was wrongfully fired.
Previous Quote of yours:
Do you always come down as a cold heartless douche bag?
We all understand that you are all for the school policy and nothing else. We also appreciate you posting your opinion here.
Read your posts again and you will see how offensive they turn out to be. Even if you just intended to pass your opinion here.
You are wrong, but then again its your personal opinion.
lol You sir are assuming alot of things.
EDIT1: Perhaps you should watch the youtube video that you've posted in this thread.
EDIT2: I am going to back out from this conversation.
Good luck and have a nice day.
So, in your mind, refusing to comply with the accreditation requirement, jeopardizing the whole school and their students, and telling his bosses to essentially go ____ themselves is a reason NOT to get fired?
Please, explain the logic in that? He wasnt told to give the students drugs, or kill their first unborn children... he was told to assign them a course book. Standard procedure at just about every major college and university. Required by accreditation. Refusing to do so and creating a hostile workplace would and SHOULD logically get one fired. He wasnt wrongly fired, he made a scene at the risk of getting fired and he did. He will have to live with his choice and take responsibility.
They will replace him with another instructor, the students will probably not get a good education in that class since the replacement might not be ready to teach and nothing will change at the end of the day. You still havent shown you understand how the accreditation system works. You can keep side stepping the questions I brought up, but lets not turn this into a series of personal attacks or broader assumptions.
btw good luck in the professional field with that type of mindset. Businesses are not quick to hire those who may be troublesome to deal with or could be considered more risk than reward.
He didn't want to not assign them a coursebook as per the accreditation requirements. He didn't want to assign them an e-book that a) expired and b) wasn't suitable for what he wanted to teach. The company wanted that e-book assigned as it makes them profits.
No I get the point. If that truly is the case, which I pointed out, then in order to oppose and or change the course material options, he needed to act in a proactive and constructive manner. Going by what he said, he felt that the students didnt need a course book at all, and that goes against the requirements for accreditation. If he has a problem with that, then he needs to approach the accreditation's HQ. It seemed like he thought making a worse situation at the school was a better idea...it wasnt.
So, looking at it objectively we have a class about photoshop. The instructor does not want to assign an ebook (which cost $50 and is most likely charged as part of the tuition regardless of if the book where there or not). Reasons for ebooks? Cheaper to produce, friendly to environment, can be easily updated. If ebook expires in 5 years, it shouldnt be a problem since by then Photoshop will most likely have changed and the ebook obsolete.
Did the instructor ask students if they wanted an ebook about photoshop? We dont know. Maybe they did maybe they didnt. Can one benefit from having a book about phtoshop? Absolutely. I have 3 and the first two were invaluable when learning photoshop back in the day.
Are the ebooks bad? We dont know. No one actually bothered to ask or inquire about the quality of the book itself. Lets just say it benefits the school to buy their chosen ebook...should that even matter if the ebook is actually good? If it was a horrible book, then yes that could raise some questions.
So the instructor thinks books are useless for photoshop and what he wants to teach. He has the choice to offer the students something they can find useful at a later date or find something relevant they could benefit from having, even if he doesnt teach from it.
This little ebook, which in his opinion, the students shouldnt have, was worth him opposing his bosses and the requirements, resulting in him getting fired. Makes sense. How do you sympathize with actions he knew full well would probably get him fired. I can sympathize more with the students who have to deal with a sudden loss of instructor, but not the instructor himself.
The issue with overpriced books and their publishers is a bigger problem with all institutions, not just the AI. In fact the AI is probably one of the cheapest book wise. If you are paying under $500 for the total sum of books required to get a degree at any uni or institute, then you are doing pretty damn good.
At the end of the day he chose insubordination over a $50 ebook for a photoshop class at a tradeschool and got canned. He may be a great guy and a good instructor, but he made a fuss regarding something small and in a manner that is not productive. No sympathy for his course of action. Fix the bigger issues that plague the system, not a set number of cheap ebooks which may or may not actually be good.
Profit isnt a bad thing, we go to tradeschools to make profit, hope that a degree gets us more profit...its all profit based. If AI charged too much, and made it worse for students, then not only would those students not have a good job placement ratio but the school would probably not get many students to begin with. Its like any service based business.
No, but I do have an invested interest in a more sane society, better educated people and an overall call for reason rather than a series of emotional responses that benefit no one. I think the education system is severely flawed, but it also reflects a greater social problem, both political and economic. Nothing is ever really black and white, but some like to turn it into black and white issues while blowing it entirely out of proportion. This case is a good example of this.
Btw books dont really have shares, authors can get royalty checks and publishers make the rest of the profits.
*Drops mic
This x100
There are a fair bit of people who are supporting Tracy, and I'm one of them for sure. After reading his post about the situation, just makes you hate these types of schools a little more :P
I also think he's going to do more good since he's been "fired", the dood obviously has a lot of support from his current / past students which I'm sure isn't the case for most of the teachers there. The fact that he stood up for something be believed in / thought was immoral was the right thing to do, and this will only hurt AI even more.
Blah blah fack AI.
people are emotional beings. they will always make emotional decisions. Get used to it, it's human nature.
And suggesting that Tracy is less responsible or less professional based on what you assume is an "emotional" decision is not only itself irresponsible but assuming you know more about the situation than you do.
according to his Linkedin, he had been working there for more than 10 years. I see this as a whole lot less of Tracy saying "___ you" to his employer, and a whole lot more of the employer saying "____ you" to him. As well as to the rest of the faculty who didn't want the e-books in the first place for all the reasons that have been listed here.
and at some point a person has to make a decision about where he stands in the system. If the system is corrupt and greedy, then that decision will likely ALWAYS be an emotional one. How long can you exist as part of a machine that feeds of of people before you consider yourself feeding off of them as well?
When you become uncomfortable with the practices of your employer you either need to shut up and accept it or quit.
So he quit.
He didn't just turn in his badge and walk out. no 2 week notice and quietly moving on. He stood up and made a fuss that a lot of people saw. He did his best to embarrass the school (which needs good PR to function) for their behavior that he has probably felt was unacceptable for the last 10 years.
In a way he tried to force them to be accountable.
and i don't think requiring accountability from corporate entities (which in the US are legally persons, just like you and I) is asking too much. I think it's something that needs to happen so they don't eat the whole world alive.
You say high book prices are indicative of problems in the larger system, even outside of education?
but everybody just floats along, dealing with it...shrugging about it..."oh well. this sucks."
whether or not it worked is irrelevant. The success of something like this doesn't determine whether or not you'll do it. Do it because you think it's the right thing to do - because you're tired of rolling over and letting the system you work for screw people any way it can.
And your comparison with somebody not wearing shoes to stop the war is ridiculous.
If he decided he would stop shaving his beard until they changed their policy, sure...you could compare them. I've seen teachers do that, too...and it worked when they did it in unison. Funny story.
If you were to compare it to a soldier refusing to follow orders because he thinks they're immoral it would still be closer than your story...but i would never compare it to that - The consequences aren't severe enough on any party involved.
by your argument all protest that doesn't work is both useless and foolish.
Tell that to somebody in Egypt or Libya.
I'm not suggesting the scale is anything close - but protest is what it is, and it's an important part of humans dealing with human systems.
and it is ALWAYS an emotional response. if it wasn't it would NEVER work ANYWHERE.
lack of an emotional response is robotic. and robots will never have better conditions, because they're fine with what they have.
poor, contentedly enslaved robots...no will to fight...
free the robots!
A policy like that is retarded. And no, schools aren't supposed to be for profit by robbing students of their money.
LOL, ok that was funny...
I dont know where or how exactly, but I think some are assuming I think negatively at Tracy as a person...this is not so. I dont know the guy, and from what i hear he is a great instructor. My opinion is based on the concept that if he truly cared about changing the policy and accreditation, then there are smarter more effective ways to go about it.
Instead of suggesting he was fired, saying he quit makes more sense...though again there are probably more constructive ways to go about it.
None of this should be taken as a defense for AI or any other school for that matter. I dont think anyone can argue that him getting fired or quitting when there were still 6 weeks left for his class is good for his students. If anything, I think they are more of a victim due to his choices as opposed to being given an ebook.
There are a lot of bad policies out there, which is why I point towards a much larger problem rather than just an ebook based requirement due to accreditation. The education system has been corrupt for awhile now, and needs some serious fixing.
Who says schools are not supposed to be for profit? Higher education is a service, not a charity. I think we enter dangerous ground when the masses start to feel entitled to everything without giving much up in return. I agree robbing people isnt a good business practice, but the term robbing in this case is highly subjective. Who draws the line as to what is robbing and what is not? Are students being forced to go to these schools or do they do so by choice? Are required ebooks a surprise after enrollment or are they explained when a student signs up for the school? Where does the government and what they "rob" come into question?
Theres a lot of subjective and not enough objective going around. I would actually argue that students have never had it better with online resources and communities teaching them everything they need to know. Tradeschools are not a requirement for job placement anymore, not if the work speaks for itself.
"just get the book"
"but i think it's wrong"
"get the book or we'll fire you"
"what about my students?"
"get the book or we'll fire you and your students will suffer for it"
so if a bank robber holds hostages and shoots somebody because the police don't comply with his (criminal) demands, is it the police's fault or the hostage taker?
the teacher should not be at fault if his students suffer because he got fired when he refused to comply. The institution that did the firing is responsible - they could have waited til the end of the quarter.
The fact that the students went 4 weeks without a book (probably more by now) shows just how important the book actually is compared to the importance (to the school) of the teacher enforcing their money-making tools.
the bank robber doesn't care about the hostages, they're just a tool to get paid. The police care about the hostages but are bound by any number of ideals not to give in to terrorist tactics despite the damage it could cause the innocent caught in the middle.
And i'm fairly certain that most of his students-and probably most of the faculty and the students he WASN'T teaching- agree with their teachers decision.
much like most hostages wouldn't fault the police for standing their ground and not giving the robber what he wanted...though the dynamic changes when there's a gun to your head and not just the threat of more debt...
Thats a ridiculous and highly biased way to look at it.
You make the assumption that no one was happy with the policy, how do you know who was or was not happy with it? Also is it just policy or requirement for accreditation? You need to know which is which.
Looks like I'll have to explain further... AI in orange county and los angeles, are accredited by the WASC. They in turn have certain requirements, and with their accreditation students can not only get an accredited degree, but also through the department of education, qualify for financial aid. They cannot get financial aid with out that accreditation.
Still following? So if the WASC requires textbooks to be given per course, then unless the school wants its accreditation revoked, will have to comply with that educational requirement.
Therefore, do you think it is good for the students if an instructor puts his own emotions on the table and risks the school getting its accreditation revoked? How long do you think it will take to sort that out if so? Years. Those students would be without what? Financial aid and an accredited degree.
You see its not just policy, but something much larger that would effect everyone, staff would get laid off, students without aid... I mean no one will win.
I think in your mind the school is like "haha lets find a way to get more money, lets force this new policy on everyone haha". It doesnt quite work that way.
Tracy had a photoshop class... accreditation required students to have a book for every course.
The school says,"ok, we cant live without that accreditation...here is a list of books we recommend you assign to the students".
Tracy is like "no i dont think so, i dont wanna, Im doing to resist since I dont like books for photoshop classes".
School "if you dont pick an ebook, we will have to let you go. We have no choice on the matter."
Tracy "Fine, fire me then"
School "You gave us no choice. Bye"
That would be a more rational chain of events based on the information that has been given.
The students would have been worse off if the school jeopardized their accreditation status. Do you understand how important that is for a school and for the students?
Remember, the school cant magically raise the cost for students after they enroll, so this means students were most likely enrolling when that requirement was in place, meaning its part of their tuition cost. Even if they dont get that ebook, chances are high they are still being charged for it. So whats to lose in assigning a $50 ebook?
Did anyone ask the students what they want? What if some of the students wanted a book about photoshop or art theory? Did anyone ask if they are willing to risk their financial aid status or degree status over a $50 book?
Like I said earlier, its not just a black and white situation. I do not believe he acted in the best interest of the school or students. Maybe he was just looking for a way out and went out with a bang. Either way it was still at the students expense.
It's a big money scheme. Watch that video.
I dont know about you but the used books I had to buy when I went to UCSC was a lot more than $50, so I would say they are getting a good deal money wise.
Ebooks also have their pros and cons. They are better for the environment, interactive, quick searches can be done to find words or and or notes, and they can be updated. So I wouldnt write them off as one big scam.
As for the video I posted, yes there are problems with the academic book requirements, but its a much larger problem than one school offering something fairly cheap and as part of the accreditation.
It all goes back to politics, teachers unions, federal loans, lobbyist...ect aka a much bigger problem than what the school is forced to do to stay accredited.
I have BEEN following you on this. not once have i suggested that the school stop "requiring" texts for classes at the cost of their accreditation.
like i said: AISD - same boat. and i mentioned before:
The classes have ALWAYS listed required texts for EVERY course on the Silibi. It was understood that WASC required it.
But the teachers seldom (and in game art classes NEVER) actually required that students purchase said texts..because they didn't use them for the course.
The E-book POLICY took that power away from the teachers and that choice away from the students.
and it was a POLICY. it was discussed between faculty at all levels as well as students as a POSSIBILITY in place of the current text book system (buy at the bookstore or find a used copy. same as it's been for decades.) It was an OPTION that AI adopted IN SPITE of clear dissent from students and instructors alike. it was never required by WASC.
That has never been the argument. In all likelihood the teacher had a "required" text chosen for his class for the last 10 years. His refusal was not to choose a text - it was to refuse to choose an E-BOOK and FORCE his students to pay for a book the WOULD NOT use in his class.
and it seems very much to me that this is EXACTLY the way it worked
again - not the argument. the accreditation was never under threat. and i think everybody understands the importance of it. the horse has died. it has been kicked. we can move on. a book would have been chosen - and students would have been able to choose to buy it or get it another way if they felt they needed it. walk away from the horse.
they asked us in san diego. I don't know a single student who wanted to move to e-books without the ability to opt-out of it for a given class or all together.
that's not an exaggeration. not one student i talked to about it - and we had classroom discussions multiple times.
I also don't know a single teacher who expressed a desire for it. The closest i heard from any teacher in any department was apathy.
Note: this was a point of discussion for an entire quarter while i was enrolled at AI - so i experienced a good deal of it for 3 months or so. i am speaking out of first hand experience.
but there was never a vote or anything. Despite all the negative feedback the policy went through anyway.
i'll be perfectly honest - despite your assurance that you've got nothing against the guy personally this assumption of his motives seems very contrary to that IMHO
...how the hell can you justify forking out for an "e-book" which can only teach some dated knowledge (dated here meaning: whenever it was published, it's already behind what's current) over the actual experience of a mentor who has worked and probably still works (if teaching salaries are anything to go by) in the industry?
it boggles the mind.
and people wonder why so many say "don't bother doing a uni course, just make badass art instead".
In the overall picture we're not talking about $50.
the student pays for a book for every class they take.
I only got charged during my last quarter of school -
but If you're full time (which i was) that means 5 classes > 5 books > $250 dollars.
per quarter.
that's an extra $1000/year
$3000/degree or so
in addition to the ungodly tuition that AI charges (and jack up every 3-6 months)
and the fact that you are required to buy a useless starter kit when you initially enroll, which is some hundreds of dollars that i can't recall now.
You already have a bad ass art skills. You still want to go to college for it?
@ reverendK: Eeep.. I had to pay 5k per year for 3 year program and 8k per year for the following 4 year program. Our math prof was kind enough to let us use the same book for 2 semesters. I think it was $150 for that book.
Now come to think of it. I never used a book in any class aside from the math related courses.
Ahh I miss them days.