Gun control won't solve anything, it'll just give the nuts "easier targets"... Crazy people WILL ALWAYS HAVE GUNS, no matter what law you throw at them... your not supposed to have explosives.... yet this 24 year old nutbag had them? along with many rifles and other weapons. Stop with the gun control crap, it wouldn't help anything.
Yep, say what you want, but that kind of slaughters and school killings mostly happen in countries where gun laws are permissive : USA/Canada/Finland...
I agree that it's more a cultural issue than directly the gun sales but saying that USA has no issue with weapons is a bit light imo.
Thank you media for giving this man EXACTING what he wanted. FAME.
Asking a kid what they want to be when they grow up, most kids these days will respond with famous, or rich. Hes living his dream, hes the most well know person rite now.
So in his world he won, and as per usual we all just failed. We failed to see that we gave him what he wanted and showed other psychopaths that they too can be famous just like him.
i dont think he's thinking that right now tbh, i think right now he's being "taken care of" by the FBI because they're involved, they're gonna try to find out where he got the weapons and the explosives and what no one else has mentioned HE KNEW WHEN THE SMOKE AND ACTION WAS GOING TO BE ON SCREEN!! HOW DID HE KNOW EXACTLY WHEN BECAUSE TEAR GAS GRENADES TAKE A SECOND TO FILL THE ROOM AND YET HE THREW THEM AT THE PERFECT TIME TO FILL IT UP JUST LIKE ON THE SCREEN!!!!! I honestly believe that since he didnt kill himself or get killed by the cops, he's going to be "very well taken care of"
Question to you "gun control won't solve anything" people... What does a law abiding citizen need a gun for?
Hunting? Have the police station not give away a license until that persons has gone through mental evaluation and a gun handling course.
Shooting on a range as a hobby? Have the person go through the same mental evaluation and have him provide records of his range shooting hobby.
Would these extra measures of gun control really limit your freedom to own a gun too much if it could bring down the amount of mass murders done with firearms?
@Bigjohn - Don't act like Russia,China or any other country would have even close the amount of guns as the US...
To assume that someone who is wired this way in the head is doing it purely for fame is so strange.
While its a possibilty that his perception of fame could be as something of great value I think its not the most likely thing. I'm no criminal psychologist but id imagine that they have a different set of rules and values.
a law abiding citizen needs a gun to protect themselves if they're not hunting, and im not talking about having a concealed weapons permit and carrying the gun around, im talking about when someone breaks into your home and tries to kill you or rape your family members, children, anything like that, that's when you need a gun to protect you and your family, i have many guns, i have been through gun safety courses and i know the consequences what happens when you point a gun at something, i also know it's a good idea to not point a gun at anything you dont plan on shooting, education will help but what would really help is like i said earlier, more people to help these kinds of people
Thank you media for giving this man EXACTING what he wanted. FAME.
Asking a kid what they want to be when they grow up, most kids these days will respond with famous, or rich. Hes living his dream, hes the most well know person rite now.
So in his world he won, and as per usual we all just failed. We failed to see that we gave him what he wanted and showed other psychopaths that they too can be famous just like him.
It takes more than just wanting to be famous to do this. Just like it takes more than just owning a gun. I'd love to get my 2 days of media fame, does that mean i blow up my local cinema, of course not!
Besides, even if you tried to avoid giving him this "fame" it's no longer possible to avoid. When an injured victim from the incident is posting images of his wounds online mere hours after the event what do you propose to do?
im talking about when someone breaks into your home and tries to kill you or rape your family members, children, anything like that, that's when you need a gun to protect you and your family
Does this happen a lot ? Looks to me that's marketing based on fear.
I bet there's more risk that a kid find a weapon and shoots someone playing with it. It happened here not long ago.
this isnt a joke, i wasnt talking about raping dogs, if you want to make jokes go to another thread, i didnt start this thread to argue about gun control, i started this thread to inform everyone about what has happened
Yep, say what you want, but that kind of slaughters and school killings mostly happen in countries where gun laws are permissive : USA/Canada/Finland...
Norway, the world's gun capital. Come'on now man... shootings happen everywhere. There are batshit crazy people everywhere. I would argue that the fact your countries are smaller, with better social services, that's really what's helping. And it's not even "solving" anything. There are still shootings. There are people here in the US that make the claim that it's "city life" that's causing this. People are all in each other's business all the time, and you don't see this kind of stuff in the more rural areas. The explanations are endless.
Even the social-class one doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's poor people, sometimes it's socal well-offs who are about to be doctors, like in this case. Who knows...
@Bigjohn - Don't act like Russia,China or any other country would have even close the amount of guns as the US...
TOP 5 most money spent on military expenses 2010
You're missing the point. Of course Russia and Pakistan don't have as many guns. They just make them. They sell it to other countries, like the US.
The point was that even if you ban guns altogether in the US, manufacturing, buying, everything, with a life sentence to those involved, I could still get you any gun you want from such places as Russia and Pakistan. I'm from the middle-east, I know how things are over there.
My point is trying to stop guns is like trying to stop any kind of technology. You can't. It exists, people will build it.
Also, military spending has nothing to do with this. And I would agree, it needs to be slashed down to nothing. But that's an irrelevant point here.
Idk why we are even talking about this, people just lost their lives, and the people who survived are affected with this for the rest of their lives, and we are arguing about gun control.
lets look at other illegal and banned things in the states, such as drugs, im pretty sure i can buy some coke anywhere in the country, if i wanted too, so with tighter gun restrictions why wouldn't it be the same for that.
that's what im trying to say johnny, people are in here arguing and I've said it three times or more, i made this thread to inform people about what happened, not to argue about gun control, granted i have fueled the fire, but making jokes about this is not right at all
It takes more than just wanting to be famous to do this. Just like it takes more than just owning a gun. I'd love to get my 2 days of media fame, does that mean i blow up my local cinema, of course not!
Besides, even if you tried to avoid giving him this "fame" it's no longer possible to avoid. When an injured victim from the incident is posting images of his wounds online mere hours after the event what do you propose to do?
Of course it takes more than just wanting to be famous it takes not giving a shit about anyone else and wanting to be famous.
As for what to do when shit like shit happens, pay attention to the people harmed by it and help them. Get rid of the guy who did it(kill/jail) and let researchers delve into why he did it and who he was. Not the news who only care about keeping you watching them so they get more ad revenue. You see someone hurt you remove the threat and help them. Once the threat is gone you continue to help them.
Hmmm i guess the real problem is were a species of hunters therefore we all only really care about the hunter not the victim so well always be drawn to the person who did the killing not the people killed. We want to know how and why so that we can learn from it to become better hunters.
Its a real tragedy with what happened, I wish the families of the victims the best through these hard times.
Even though it was really bad with what happened I wish people would have some more common sense. I manage a movie theater in North Carolina and I have people sending in emails telling us that they are not coming unless we have more security. Even the damn local news coming down asking questions about our security and how safe we feel. Oh and the owners are having a meeting with the local police chief as I type this. If a shooting happens a gas station 300 miles away would you call your local gas station and demand higher security. Some people are in a panic for whatever reason. :poly142:
Konstruct, it's the internet and this is polycount, be an adult and realize that this is something serious that happened, some polycounters may have been involved, i personally know people that were there in the theater, seriously why in gods name would you want to come in here and make a joke and post a fucking stupid picture like that
there are plenty of places on the internet to make jokes, this isnt one of them
To start such a thread it is inevitable the talk to lead to gun control. It is a Pandoras Box.
I am more interested in why we are having such massacres from a society perspective. How/Why do these unbalanced people fall between the cracks? What drives them to justify the taking of human life?
To simply it to fame is a mockery. There are much more complicated things going on. If we just bypass trying to discover what environmental issues in the society lead to such. Then make no attempt to address, this will continually reoccur.
Skamberin, my guess is it has nothing to do with the anniversary. The guy went to the first show of Batman in his time zone and re-enacted part of the film which I'm sure confused a very crowded audience.
I was almost not joking.
"I own a gun in case of someone enters my house and rape my daughter" Does people often enter occupied house to rape children? What are the risks ?
Ok, you own a gun, a M16 why not. As a responsible person, you keep it locked, discharged. You keep the bullets apart, locked aswell.
Someone enters your house. You go unlock your stuff, charge your gun, use it ?
This is not an argument to me.
To start such a thread it is inevitable the talk to lead to gun control. It is a Pandoras Box.
I am more interested in why we are having such massacres from a society perspective. How/Why do these unbalanced people fall between the cracks? What drives them to justify the taking of human life?
To simply it to fame is a mockery. There are much more complicated things going on. If we just bypass trying to discover what environmental issues in the society lead to such. Then make no attempt to address, this will continually reoccur.
Just to be clear, I don't think they are simply doing this for fame. I think that they seek out the fame, but they are disturbed in some other way, and as Oxy stated, the deeper issue is what needs to be resolved.
ya sad with how the news covers thigns like that, check out the song vicarious by tool, more or less about people fascination with tragedy like this and watching it all.
the deeper issue is society, the people that do this are the ones that feel left behind and disconnect to society, or felt that it has wronged them.
Absolutely- come back down to earth. realize this thread isn't the end-all be all moral thermometer. Why people are even talking about gun control in the first place is mind numbing.
yet another sad story, yet another sad way of reporting
its a guy who lost it and went on a rampage, theres not much you can do about it only things to make it worse by spraying it over the news everywhere giving the guy all of this exposure.
I`m not saying this guy did it for `fame` but there are nutjobs out there that are and this only gives another signal to them that they will achieve just that.
Matt, that was my exact point that he made at the end of the video. What the news does just feeds psychopaths and brings them out by reminding them that if they come out and kill they will be rewarded with fame. The fact that people know this and still do it is just sad.
The language and angle "...who has been accused," and "...look into his eyes, wonder what happened, who he was, [...] did he once think of a future for himself" seems very inappropriate. Why is ABC sympathizing with this guy? sickening.
Absolutely- come back down to earth. realize this thread isn't the end-all be all moral thermometer. Why people are even talking about gun control in the first place is mind numbing.
Okay. Thanks for your insight. I am now back down to earth. Whew!
I just think you could be a tad bit nicer considering your response to Dan; he had friends that were injured in that theater. You don't need to be making fun of him since this obviously is a fresh and raw subject. Finding some way to put me down isn't doing anyone any favors either.
Much more to the point...death by firearm...the U.S. doesn't even make the top 10.
Looking at firearm related crimes is kind of pointless. It's no surprise that countries with looser gun control will have more firearm related deaths. As someone already said in this thread, the reason why people choose a gun instead of any other weapon is out of convenience. It doesn't necessarily mean the crime wouldn't have been committed if the person didn't have access to the gun which is really the important question. Even worse using places like South Africa as a measuring stick...
A better way to think about this is by comparing rates of homicide between countries with similar gun control policies. Or compare gun control policies of countries with similar rates of homicide. Or look at rates of homicide in states before and after they passed gun control laws (if you do this you'll have to somehow compensate for the regional average rate of decline... which is hard) I suspect if you did that you'd find that gun control does help but the rates of homicide are largely determined by the cultural values.
I doubt any amount of weapons bans could have prevented this particular crime. Generally speaking though I think people like gun control because they like simple solutions to complex problems.
I feel for Dan- I live in Colorado and also have connections. I`d feel for Dan if he didn't kept jumping down the throats of everyone that disagreed with him about gun control being the main issue.
If you want to be respectful, stop poining fingers and trying to find someone/thing to blame. Crazy is an unfortunate byproduct of society and its horrifying how that has manifested itself in this way. Leave it at that and dont be surprised if someone (me) throws flak for doing otherwise.
*edit:
I feel like a dick. Admittedly I started reading from post 56. Now got sucked into the gun control ridiculousness.. sigh. While I dont agree with Dan, I see now all the silly shit he had to respond to. My bad- and deepest condolences.
Konstruct, while "crazy" might be a side product of our current societal structure, being an inconsiderate ass is not. That's personal choice. Making light of something like this, especially this soon after the fact, is quite distasteful.
One main important thing is trying to prevent these things from happening, and while we can potentially and impossibly weed out every nutcase or victim of society we'll have a much easier time making sure these people have a hard time getting their hands on tools that make their deeds as easy as possible to commit.
Should we just chalk it off as "sometimes people go crazy and they happen to have guns, that's life."
Matt, that was my exact point that he made at the end of the video. What the news does just feeds psychopaths and brings them out by reminding them that if they come out and kill they will be rewarded with fame. The fact that people know this and still do it is just sad.
There's no way his calling himself "The Joker" isn't a play for more attention from the kinds of people who will blame this on the movies or violent videogames or "the rap tapes" and get his stupid fucking picture of his stupid fucking smirking face put up on the news over the sound of blaring sirens.
But hey, let's not have accountability for the media. Lord knows it would be an encroachment of free speech if we took some action to make our 24 hour news networks less incredibly horrible.
Replies
I agree that it's more a cultural issue than directly the gun sales but saying that USA has no issue with weapons is a bit light imo.
Asking a kid what they want to be when they grow up, most kids these days will respond with famous, or rich. Hes living his dream, hes the most well know person rite now.
So in his world he won, and as per usual we all just failed. We failed to see that we gave him what he wanted and showed other psychopaths that they too can be famous just like him.
Hunting? Have the police station not give away a license until that persons has gone through mental evaluation and a gun handling course.
Shooting on a range as a hobby? Have the person go through the same mental evaluation and have him provide records of his range shooting hobby.
Would these extra measures of gun control really limit your freedom to own a gun too much if it could bring down the amount of mass murders done with firearms?
@Bigjohn - Don't act like Russia,China or any other country would have even close the amount of guns as the US...
TOP 5 most money spent on military expenses 2010
While its a possibilty that his perception of fame could be as something of great value I think its not the most likely thing. I'm no criminal psychologist but id imagine that they have a different set of rules and values.
It takes more than just wanting to be famous to do this. Just like it takes more than just owning a gun. I'd love to get my 2 days of media fame, does that mean i blow up my local cinema, of course not!
Besides, even if you tried to avoid giving him this "fame" it's no longer possible to avoid. When an injured victim from the incident is posting images of his wounds online mere hours after the event what do you propose to do?
Does this happen a lot ? Looks to me that's marketing based on fear.
I bet there's more risk that a kid find a weapon and shoots someone playing with it. It happened here not long ago.
Right...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/world/europe/23oslo.html?pagewanted=all
Norway, the world's gun capital. Come'on now man... shootings happen everywhere. There are batshit crazy people everywhere. I would argue that the fact your countries are smaller, with better social services, that's really what's helping. And it's not even "solving" anything. There are still shootings. There are people here in the US that make the claim that it's "city life" that's causing this. People are all in each other's business all the time, and you don't see this kind of stuff in the more rural areas. The explanations are endless.
Even the social-class one doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's poor people, sometimes it's socal well-offs who are about to be doctors, like in this case. Who knows...
Come on, do we really need a gun to protect ourselves?
You're missing the point. Of course Russia and Pakistan don't have as many guns. They just make them. They sell it to other countries, like the US.
The point was that even if you ban guns altogether in the US, manufacturing, buying, everything, with a life sentence to those involved, I could still get you any gun you want from such places as Russia and Pakistan. I'm from the middle-east, I know how things are over there.
My point is trying to stop guns is like trying to stop any kind of technology. You can't. It exists, people will build it.
Also, military spending has nothing to do with this. And I would agree, it needs to be slashed down to nothing. But that's an irrelevant point here.
lets look at other illegal and banned things in the states, such as drugs, im pretty sure i can buy some coke anywhere in the country, if i wanted too, so with tighter gun restrictions why wouldn't it be the same for that.
Of course it takes more than just wanting to be famous it takes not giving a shit about anyone else and wanting to be famous.
As for what to do when shit like shit happens, pay attention to the people harmed by it and help them. Get rid of the guy who did it(kill/jail) and let researchers delve into why he did it and who he was. Not the news who only care about keeping you watching them so they get more ad revenue. You see someone hurt you remove the threat and help them. Once the threat is gone you continue to help them.
Hmmm i guess the real problem is were a species of hunters therefore we all only really care about the hunter not the victim so well always be drawn to the person who did the killing not the people killed. We want to know how and why so that we can learn from it to become better hunters.
Even though it was really bad with what happened I wish people would have some more common sense. I manage a movie theater in North Carolina and I have people sending in emails telling us that they are not coming unless we have more security. Even the damn local news coming down asking questions about our security and how safe we feel. Oh and the owners are having a meeting with the local police chief as I type this. If a shooting happens a gas station 300 miles away would you call your local gas station and demand higher security. Some people are in a panic for whatever reason. :poly142:
Its the internet- If you don`t like it, go do something else.
there are plenty of places on the internet to make jokes, this isnt one of them
Drop this shit;
"gun control will have no effect at all."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundness
I am more interested in why we are having such massacres from a society perspective. How/Why do these unbalanced people fall between the cracks? What drives them to justify the taking of human life?
To simply it to fame is a mockery. There are much more complicated things going on. If we just bypass trying to discover what environmental issues in the society lead to such. Then make no attempt to address, this will continually reoccur.
Wonder how many are going to suggest he acted as a copycat or something..
We get the media exposure precisely because we don't have mass killings and we have an open reporting society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Guns per capita is highest in the U.S., but the use of those firearms are clearly more legal than illegal.
Still I am more to happy to move to England where the constables don't even carry firearms.....
"I own a gun in case of someone enters my house and rape my daughter" Does people often enter occupied house to rape children? What are the risks ?
Ok, you own a gun, a M16 why not. As a responsible person, you keep it locked, discharged. You keep the bullets apart, locked aswell.
Someone enters your house. You go unlock your stuff, charge your gun, use it ?
This is not an argument to me.
I stop here anyway.
[ame="
And it's more and more relevant every time. The level of sensationalism in the coverage of this tragedy is disgusting.
the deeper issue is society, the people that do this are the ones that feel left behind and disconnect to society, or felt that it has wronged them.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/aurora-dark-knight-suspect-joker-cops/story?id=16822251#.UAmiyKPUQ_e
Absolutely- come back down to earth. realize this thread isn't the end-all be all moral thermometer. Why people are even talking about gun control in the first place is mind numbing.
its a guy who lost it and went on a rampage, theres not much you can do about it only things to make it worse by spraying it over the news everywhere giving the guy all of this exposure.
I`m not saying this guy did it for `fame` but there are nutjobs out there that are and this only gives another signal to them that they will achieve just that.
The language and angle "...who has been accused," and "...look into his eyes, wonder what happened, who he was, [...] did he once think of a future for himself" seems very inappropriate. Why is ABC sympathizing with this guy? sickening.
Okay. Thanks for your insight. I am now back down to earth. Whew!
I just think you could be a tad bit nicer considering your response to Dan; he had friends that were injured in that theater. You don't need to be making fun of him since this obviously is a fresh and raw subject. Finding some way to put me down isn't doing anyone any favors either.
A better way to think about this is by comparing rates of homicide between countries with similar gun control policies. Or compare gun control policies of countries with similar rates of homicide. Or look at rates of homicide in states before and after they passed gun control laws (if you do this you'll have to somehow compensate for the regional average rate of decline... which is hard) I suspect if you did that you'd find that gun control does help but the rates of homicide are largely determined by the cultural values.
I doubt any amount of weapons bans could have prevented this particular crime. Generally speaking though I think people like gun control because they like simple solutions to complex problems.
If you want to be respectful, stop poining fingers and trying to find someone/thing to blame. Crazy is an unfortunate byproduct of society and its horrifying how that has manifested itself in this way. Leave it at that and dont be surprised if someone (me) throws flak for doing otherwise.
*edit:
I feel like a dick. Admittedly I started reading from post 56. Now got sucked into the gun control ridiculousness.. sigh. While I dont agree with Dan, I see now all the silly shit he had to respond to. My bad- and deepest condolences.
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/wvtn9/comprehensive_timeline_part_4_aurora_massacre/
You can disagree in far more intelligent ways.
good thing our society revolves around money and finance yea capitalism
Should we just chalk it off as "sometimes people go crazy and they happen to have guns, that's life."
There's no way his calling himself "The Joker" isn't a play for more attention from the kinds of people who will blame this on the movies or violent videogames or "the rap tapes" and get his stupid fucking picture of his stupid fucking smirking face put up on the news over the sound of blaring sirens.
But hey, let's not have accountability for the media. Lord knows it would be an encroachment of free speech if we took some action to make our 24 hour news networks less incredibly horrible.