Oh wow, you think that these beauty shots aren't using the proper models and textures? Sorry dude, I think you'll find that everyone is using the LoD0 for their beauty shots and regarding textures, even Valve's default textures are 1k or 2k.
Keep in mind that even if the community is fooled by these "glamour shots" as you're calling them, valve isn't. I've seen really incredible stuff only get 135 votes because it used in-game shots for the preview image that were hard to see, but get accepted into the game regardless. And I've seen the opposite, where the item was "faked" with preview images not get accepted.
At the end of the day valve is the one judging the quality of the item, don't worry about it. You won't get nearly as many votes without "oooh shiny" but that doesn't mean it won't get accepted/judged fairly. I guarantee valve won't be judging the top 10 by preview images.
Oh wow, you think that these beauty shots aren't using the proper models and textures? Sorry dude, I think you'll find that everyone is using the LoD0 for their beauty shots and regarding textures, even Valve's default textures are 1k or 2k.
Sorry, but those 1 k 2 k textures aren't real and the normals they create aren't real. Stop it. If I was allowed 1 to 2 k normal maps, that would generate amazing results, but that isn't the reality. The limitations are important for the best work to come out that is creative, yet with in real game guidelines. The game doesn't use 1 to 2 k normal maps or your computer wouldn't be able to handle it. Promotional use is fine for Valve, but when dealing with real items, that someone might pay for, it is best that they steer away from the false advertising.
This is a beautiful image, but it has no reality to it. Sorry, just the truth, but most don't care about the truth.
That is what the model will look in the Hero selection screen when you have everything set to Max (AF is also important).
512px at LOD0 per piece sounds pretty doable to me, with 256px and LOD1 for ingame, I don't understand what the problem is here.
I can very clearly see the jaggy edges of the models in that picture, as well the smudgy texture in one the blue parts, the author was simply clever enough to play within the limitations of the the stuff to make things pop.
It's also funny on how you decided to pick the low-res version of the texture, which hides all the small issues on the model, instead of the big one when you click on the image.
They even included an ingame screenshot to be fair, yet you decided to pick on them? Seriously? With all the other crappy looking models which got through the system somehow and which have only 1 picture, you decided to pick on Anuxi (who is also on PC btw), which was the one being the most fair?
Are you crazy?!
I don't know what your problem is honestly, it seems like you simply are unhappy that you're models aren't well received and are lashing out to people around you, which trust me, isn't cool at all. It's especially not cool to go to a models page in the workshop and badmouth it without constructive feedback or warning, saying a simple "This model is not real, it's false display" is not cool at all man.
It also doesn't help your argument when you say the 'system is rigged', because at that point, you kinda start losing your audience.
About your models: Yeah, I suggest you go back and do them again, because they really don't work. They lack any type of color-scheme, they're single shade of grey or white, I don't see any Point-Light shadow cast from top to bottom which is mentioned in the documentation, no proper Normal maps which pop the details, especially for stuff like the fresnel, and none-of-them seem to have a specular definition...AT ALL, you can clearly see Tide-Hunter's oily body with a nice shine and shading, your model doesn't have any of that, it doesn't even look dry, it just looks like floating geometry with plain colors.
Your latest piece for Spirit Breaker is much better, but I cannot say more because the picture is soo small that I cannot make anything out. It also doesn't help that the ONLY large image you have of that item (seriously? An arm item is put in the back slot?) you have faked the fresnel effect with a cheap emboss, which is cheating, since ingame it will look radically different.
The thumbnails aren't that hard to make, just have a gradient background/blurry color background with a simple border around and call it a day. It will literally take you 5 minutes to setup a simple template for your thumbnails, I don't see whats so 'cheating' about that, since in my books an emboss on the only large image is more cheating them a vignette on a small/tiny thumbnail that is supplied with 2 large images inside.
Take a break, cool your engines and come back to making more awesome art, complaining about the 'system being rigged' (which it isn't in the first place) will serve you no purpose other then not improving.
Sorry, but those 1 k 2 k textures aren't real and normals they create aren't real. Stop it. If I was allowed 1 to 2 k normal maps, that would generate amazing results, but that isn't the reality. The limitations are important for the best work to come out that is creative, yet with in real game guidelines. The game doesn't use 1 to 2 k normal maps or your computer wouldn't be able to handle it. Promotional use is fine for Valve, but when dealing with real items, that someone might pay for, it is best that they steer away from the false advertising.
"I can very clearly see the jaggy edges of the models in that picture, as well the smudgy texture in one the blue parts, the author was simply clever enough to play within the limitations of the the stuff to make things pop."- not true at all.
"No shit, they get compiled."--no, you start with the 256 or you would get horrible seams. Stop saying nonsense.
"I don't know what your problem is honestly, it seems like you simply are unhappy that you're models aren't well received and are lashing out to people around you, which trust me, isn't cool at all. It's especially not cool to go to a models page in the workshop and badmouth it without constructive feedback or warning, saying a simple "This model is not real, it's false display" is not cool at all man."--again, untrue. I have only made 2 sets. My first set wasn't even within the LOD limit, so I had to come back to redo it. And that set was received fine. That isn't my point, but I think your bias is obviously driving your points. I just use logic.
"About your models: Yeah, I suggest you go back and do them again, because they really don't work. They lack any type of color-scheme, they're single shade of grey or white, I don't see any Point-Light shadow cast from top to bottom which is mentioned in the documentation, no proper Normal maps which pop the details, especially for stuff like the fresnel, and none-of-them seem to have a specular definition...AT ALL, you can clearly see Tide-Hunter's oily body with a nice shine and shading, your model doesn't have any of that, it doesn't even look dry, it just looks like floating geometry with plain colors."-again, untrue. My mask files are beyond complex, even at 256.
"Take a break, cool your engines and come back to making more awesome art, complaining about the 'system being rigged' (which it isn't in the first place) will serve you no purpose other then not improving."--this just isn't the case. You should read Mr.President's comment. He seems to have more wisdom then you present. The system isn't rigged. I'm just being honest. Honesty. That is a hard policy, but I'm sticking to it. A lot of your comments are dishonest:"I can very clearly see the jaggy edges of the models in that picture"--that is a lie. Kind of hard to do with SMOOTH normals with 1 to 2K normal maps. You need to rewind your roll.
"Your latest piece for Spirit Breaker is much better, but I cannot say more because the picture is soo small that I cannot make anything out. It also doesn't help that the ONLY large image you have of that item (seriously? An arm item is put in the back slot?) you have faked the fresnel effect with a cheap emboss, which is cheating, since ingame it will look radically different."--I can generate 1000 and 2000 textures to generate a false preview file, but they will never be in the game. It just isn't real.
--no, you start with the 256 or you would get horrible seams. Stop saying nonsense.
Man, you have no idea what you're talking about. For the last few days you've been on a tear giving terrible advice, and now this tirade against presentation. You should stop posting and just listen...
Your ideals about presentation are unrealistic and pointless. Everyone generally provides in-game shots anyway, so maybe you should be informing people to look more closely instead.
I don't know how old you are or where you are from, but you seem to be missing some basic facts about presentation and marketing. Have you ever seen a tv commercial? When you buy the toy, you don't get the jungle environment to play in.
Presentation is important so people put their best foot forward, that's just how it is; welcome to the real world. The only thing you can do is step-up instead of expecting everyone else to conform to your ideals.
To address the above quote, look up texture padding. It adds extra pixels around your bakes/textures so that when the texture is resized there's extra pixels around the uv shells and you won't end up with unwanted seams or pixel bleed.
"Man, you have no idea what you're talking about. For the last few days you've been on a tear giving terrible advice, and now this tirade against presentation. You should stop posting and just listen...
To address the above quote, look up texture padding. It adds extra pixels around your bakes/textures so that when the texture is resized there's extra pixels around the uv shells and you won't end up with unwanted seams or pixel bleed."
I used plenty of texturing padding, but it is an unnecessary step with questionable outcomes. It is just easier to generate 256X256 straight up. You should do the comparisons. You aren't getting any more detail by shrinking those 1000k or 2000k maps, but losing more detail that you would save by generating the maps at size. So, tell me again. The real point, is that BAD information isn't what I give out. Take your 2000k maps and generate the borders necessary for a bleed over, yet make sure the UV layout is using as much map as possible. Your maps would be undersized to compensate for this issue. That wouldn't be the best use of your UV space. How can I know? Oh, I know, because when I originally created my own pipeline, I tested all these methods. Yes, for simple colors and textures, this will hardly be an issue, but you aren't getting any more detail. I'm kind of embarrassed for you, Frump. The amount of padding you would need on complex texturing and normals would take away from your UV layout space, which again, would defeat the purpose of good UV placement. Again, simple texture painting would solve that issue without any seams. I see a lot of the simple texture painting, so my comments are strictly for Zbrush users. Anyway, the real beef I have, it just nailing down a structure. Nailing down a framework. That is why I'm on such a tear. I just want to hammer down the pipeline for myself. I let a lot of misinformation hit this board without taking a stab at it, but sometimes I have to go after it. And nonsense is the name of the game.
Sin, if your a real person and not some elaborate troll i think you need to take a breather, go grab a walk or have a long sleep and re read over all of this with some fresh eyes.
I will not arguing because I sometimes use the programs for better presentations too. Sometimes its better, mainly for heroes with really small cosmetics.
Anyway, is there some texture guy which want to help me out with the texture? It really needs to go through some pro hands. It is weapon for silencer without the 450 tris version because I just did not know where to go with this item. But really if someone will want to help me I can really make it no problem and even get a better presentation. The biggest problem is that the normal map is almost unused. It is in a workshop without finalize waiting. Ty for reading. x)
But yeah, SinAmos, you're absolutely in the wrong here. Paint a texture in 256x246 and then paint the same texture in 1024x1024 and downsize it to 256x256. You'll see a very definite difference in quality.
People don't paint at higher resolution to stroke their own ego, they do it because it gives better results and allows them to be used for promotional material. People know exactly when an image is rendered externally vs when it is rendered in engine because there's only 2 possible cameras that it can be rendered from in game in first place. The idea that only the master race of 3D artists know when something is a promotional shot vs an ingame shot is ludicrous.
As for your second point of contention, when have you ever seen high grade models etc that did not have some kind of nice presentation to them. Presentation is just another part of 3D, be it to sell your design to a client or an anonymous horde or workshop viewers. Don't dress it up like it's an atrocity and a separate song-and-dance routine that you have to go through to please the dumb audience to get them to notice the REAL value in your work. The two are connected, but you're trying to tear them away from each other and blame other people for not doing that.
That CGFX Shader is really neat, however for some reason when I reload a Maya scene file/save, it script doesn't load and I lose all my material settings. It only works if I manually create a new CGFX material, or load a DOTA 2 FBX model into Maya again, but I have to re-assign all the textures again.
"But yeah, SinAmos, you're absolutely in the wrong here. Paint a texture in 256x246 and then paint the same texture in 1024x1024 and downsize it to 256x256. You'll see a very definite difference in quality."--In Zbrush, you generate a 1024X1024 map from detail texture painting and sculpting. You take that same image and downsize it in photoshop to 256X256, right? Then generate that same map in Zbrush with 256X256 as your settings. The one that you generate in the actual size will have more detail because you are generating it locally, rather than using Photoshop's algo to squish pixels. I can present pictures with the evidence, so this can finally be proven to the non-believers.
@ Everyone
I apologize for being anal. 1000k and 2000 k maps are not even close to the resolution that a 256X256 map. That is a 4X to 8X magnification in detail. Using those to generate images is no different then using Zbrush renders to create previews. I was hoping to wake up to some kind of answer. Either that render images should be constrained to the numbers they give us.
I believe all preview images should be renders of these limitations. That is my own thought, but I can easily be swayed to believe that this isn't right. I just need to read some good logic.
honesty is a good thing, but sometimes u need to be honest to yoursef and realize that its only your ego talking. Sometimes the best thing to do is apologize and go back to work. Im not patronizing, i was in the same position a few years ago, and i took a huge blow that made me more humble.
honesty is a good thing, but sometimes u need to be honest to yoursef and realize that its only your ego talking. Sometimes the best thing to do is apologize and go back to work. Im not patronizing, i was in the same position a few years ago, and i took a huge blow that made me more humble.
I stand by what I said. I'm still generating all my previews from the limited texture files. It was really a battle between myself that I needed to air out to find a resolve in my own mind. Hearing everyone's input helped me draw my own conclusion. It had nothing to do with ego, but an internal struggle against mainstreaming, even if I didn't believe in those tactics.
I just stumbled into this, and just wanted to say thanks to those who took the time to try to explain and back up mine and others workshop submissions who took the time to present their work as best they could
I just stumbled into this, and just wanted to say thanks to those who took the time to try to explain and back up mine and others workshop submissions who took the time to present their work as best they could
Are you rendering strictly with the in game texture sizes? You should try to do that for integrity sake.
"People have given you enough reasons why it's ok to present your work as best as you can. Valve does it for gods sake.
It really seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder because other peoples work looks better than yours.
Just shut up. You are wrong, go away."
There is no difference between a Zbrush render and 1000/2000 k normal/texture map render, because they are both dishonest renders of the in game work. I don't care if people cheat. That is their choice, but I have the right to call them out. I'll take my Zbrush sculpts over whatever work you are referring to. Cheaters don't like to get called out and baddies don't like it either. So, Pop That Corn. And yes, I'm right, Lance Armstrong.
"People have given you enough reasons why it's ok to present your work as best as you can. Valve does it for gods sake.
It really seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder because other peoples work looks better than yours.
Just shut up. You are wrong, go away."
There is no difference between a Zbrush render and 1000/2000 k normal/texture map render, because they are both dishonest renders of the in game work. I don't care if people cheat. That is their choice, but I have the right to call them out. I'll take my Zbrush sculpts over whatever work you are referring to. Cheaters don't like to get called out and baddies don't like it either. So, Pop That Corn. And yes, I'm right, Lance Armstrong.
this is straight from the Technical requirements for items page.
"We author source textures 4 times larger than the in-game size for painting and promotional purposes. E.g. a typical weapon has texture resolution of 256x256 pixels in game but source art is 1024x1024"
Regardless of what your personal feelings are on this subject, no one has cheated, and everyone that you have mentioned that has bothered to put in the effort to market their work as best as they can have also provided in game screenshots.
No one on the asset store is being misled.
I'm also going to call you SinGAYmos to attempt to make you look like a fool and make your argument seem invalid.
SinAmos, you have taken up several pages beating a dead horse, now. You've made your argument. We get it.
There is no "cheating" going on in how anybody is choosing to represent their work. Baselessly accusing people of cheating will no longer be tolerated.
Let's get this thread back on the train of love and awesomeness. Please do not continue to fill this thread with arguments.
It has taken three entire pages of explanations and your still having trouble understanding a simple concept Sin.
so let me spell this out for you like i would a 5 year old.
Quoted from the texture requirements page "We author source textures 4 times larger than the in-game size for painting and promotional purposes."
The images on the workshop are promotional images.
Its a pretty simple concept, and standard practice for every major publisher and developer.
Additionally this could have been a healthy topic of conversation that could have resulted in pages of helpful hints on how to best promote workshop submissions within a reasonable set of limitations. But you pushed for some kind of aggressive witchhunt, shame on you.
Edit: didnt see your message untill after i posted Geezus
Sin Amos: You have become a irritating disruptive troll. This is your first and last warning. Change your attitude while posting here or I will personally revoke your account and remove every single post you've made.
If you'd like to protest, do not do it here. Contact me privately. If you continue to be irritating...
I've helped more than a number of posters on serious issues and frustrations in this thread. I even have my real name mentioned in tutorials that have helped thousands understand in game scenarios during the early days of problem solving related to these in game items and heroes. I think you are way off base with your threat. I had an issue with something, which we discussed, and now it is resolved. You coming in on this thread is an executive breach.
the dota texture have some insane limitations, they are using just one map of 1024 x 1024 for each character, which leads to some really small textures to the objects
to avoid those artifacts you should try to mirror the uvs to get more resolution
also you could try to use more of the space, let me show you an example
this is the spirit bear im doing with a friend for the contest
see that almost everything is mirrored? the texture limit for the spirit bear is 512 x 512 so is like im using a 1024x512, its a lot more pixels to spare
check how i get closed to the border, as the textures will be joined togheter to create just one, you can get near the borde with no worries
another detail is the size of the head on the texture, as it will appear on the portrait it have much more resolution then the rest of the body, parts that will not appear to much like the botton part of the feet i used fewer pixels
if you manage to use better the pixels on your textures, you will get rid of those artifacts
but that is not easy, you need a lot of trial and error
Sin Amos: You have become a irritating disruptive troll. This is your first and last warning. Change your attitude while posting here or I will personally revoke your account and remove every single post you've made.
If you'd like to protest, do not do it here. Contact me privately. If you continue to be irritating...
thanks man, i really dont want the polycount dota´s thead to become like the facepunch´s one
one more reason to like the polycount community =]
That shield looks pretty serious. Even in the in game preview, it really deals well with the light. It doesn't look blown out like even the armor he is wearing. I would be curious to see your map files if you would post them. I think Tvidotto's idea about using the gradient is on the money. I noticed the lighting in the in game preview doesn't reflect the true in game appearance. When you do your compile, it lets you supposedly see the in game. What was weird, is I was playing a game, and I had the Shark on Tide's back, which is completely blown out in the preview with light, but in the game, I remember the shark looking completely different. I'll have to look again, but there are strange things a foot.
just browse back a few pages. I never did it. But i belive there is a file that you can hack if u have VTFEdit and Dota 2 test. You just have to change the deafult paths on the files to aim to your items. Well that is in theory. i just cant recall the name of the files.
"That shield looks pretty serious. Even in the in game preview, it really deals well with the light. It doesn't look blown out like even the armor he is wearing. I would be curious to see your map files if you would post them. I think Tvidotto's idea about using the gradient is on the money. I noticed the lighting in the in game preview doesn't reflect the true in game appearance. When you do your compile, it lets you supposedly see the in game. What was weird, is I was playing a game, and I had the Shark on Tide's back, which is completely blown out in the preview with light, but in the game, I remember the shark looking completely different. I'll have to look again, but there are strange things a foot."
color and UV
i got preatty economical here, and it worked tanks to tividoto. I could be even more economical, but if i do, i will have to reesculpt or redesign the whole thing. I also ditched my old normal map and mixed with a normal baked out of the color map. It made it easyer, i lost some quality on the way ... but i can still go back if i need to. for the mask 1 i go black on all channels. and for the mask 2, well that is hard to explain, and my english is kind of limited. i will post the picture instead and u can get the feel :
"the mask 1 i go black on all channels"-- That is interesting. I wonder what is happening because you aren't using the metalness mask in mask 1. It just previews so much better.
Why no rimlight on the shield edges in the RimLightMask? Maybe some rimlight on the top inner edge?
"the mask 1 i go black on all channels"-- That is interesting. I wonder what is happening because you aren't using the metalness mask in mask 1. It just previews so much better.
Why no rimlight on the shield edges in the RimLightMask? Maybe some rimlight on the top inner edge?
rimlight dont go well on metal i guess, atleast that is what i can remember fro the dota 2 pdf. and metallness, well i dont know how to use it. i figure out that if i minimize the number of variables (like the whole map1) i could handle it faster. Since map 1 is more complex and used normally to advanced fx i ditched it. Mabe i will try to use the metallness later. I just coudnt find a good value to it.
rimlight dont go well on metal i guess, atleast that is what i can remember fro the dota 2 pdf. and metallness, well i dont know how to use it. i figure out that if i minimize the number of variables (like the whole map1) i could handle it faster. Since map 1 is more complex and used normally to advanced fx i ditched it. Mabe i will try to use the metallness later. I just coudnt find a good value to it.
I find it best to try and find an item which uses the same material and copy the masks. That way it fits within the game
just browse back a few pages. I never did it. But i belive there is a file that you can hack if u have VTFEdit and Dota 2 test. You just have to change the deafult paths on the files to aim to your items. Well that is in theory. i just cant recall the name of the files.
Yeah i look some pages back and I saw an other guy having the same problem as me, I did all I read here and in other post, but when I open the game to see if there is my file, it is not, I just can make disappear the default one but not appear mine.
Yeah i look some pages back and I saw an other guy having the same problem as me, I did all I read here and in other post, but when I open the game to see if there is my file, it is not, I just can make disappear the default one but not appear mine.
did u try to open your files on the dota 2 importer? if so, use the files generated by the importer insted. I will probably try this way out when im finished with my model.
Does someone kniw the link where i can learn how to bound my items to bone? I make sword for kunkka n axe. Please, i hardly find any that helps. And i cannot open .ma files in maya 2008 .
did u try to open your files on the dota 2 importer? if so, use the files generated by the importer insted. I will probably try this way out when im finished with my model.
Im not sure if I understand you, I tried copying and pasting my vvs, vtf, qc etcetc files that i get from importing my models inside dota2 workshop thing in the directory of dota2, after removing the default ones in the vpk files, but when I open the game, it just dont show anyone, a naked model, instead of showing the ones I put in the folders.
Im not sure if I understand you, I tried copying and pasting my vvs, vtf, qc etcetc files that i get from importing my models inside dota2 workshop thing in the directory of dota2, after removing the default ones in the vpk files, but when I open the game, it just dont show anyone, a naked model, instead of showing the ones I put in the folders.
Im sure im missing something
dude .. please tell me you are modding the dota 2 test and not the dota 2 beta files, you can download dota 2 test for free if u get dota 2 beta.
From what im reading the old posts you need to get the files from your hero under material and the model files. something like this :
the first one will hold the textures and a .vmt file that contains the path and some other info. To read it and modify it you need VTFEDIT, just google it.
the second folder holds the geometry info. And you probably should edit the Qc file. But that i cant help u with. After u get those folders then u place on the corresponding (mirroed path) under dota 2 test and run it. But again, i never did it. im also interested on knowing how to do it.
Edit : after reading lots of older posts, seems like the best way to do it is compiling the whole thing from scrach, since we cant have acess to the qc that the dota 2 compiler creates. The qc file is a temporary file from what i learned, so we cant have access to it. one possibility is getting the file whyle the dota 2 compiler creates it. I had access to some raw textures files when i deleted all the spirit breaker files on materials\models\items\spirit_breaker\Crazynumber\dota2importeritemname\ there is a possibility that this also works with the qc files on the models\heros. I will try it here and report back.
Edit 2 : ok ... in fact no need to do that. you can decompile the file with Cannonfodder's studio compiler, then change the paths and recompile then.
Replies
At the end of the day valve is the one judging the quality of the item, don't worry about it. You won't get nearly as many votes without "oooh shiny" but that doesn't mean it won't get accepted/judged fairly. I guarantee valve won't be judging the top 10 by preview images.
512px at LOD0 per piece sounds pretty doable to me, with 256px and LOD1 for ingame, I don't understand what the problem is here.
I can very clearly see the jaggy edges of the models in that picture, as well the smudgy texture in one the blue parts, the author was simply clever enough to play within the limitations of the the stuff to make things pop.
It's also funny on how you decided to pick the low-res version of the texture, which hides all the small issues on the model, instead of the big one when you click on the image.
They even included an ingame screenshot to be fair, yet you decided to pick on them? Seriously? With all the other crappy looking models which got through the system somehow and which have only 1 picture, you decided to pick on Anuxi (who is also on PC btw), which was the one being the most fair?
Are you crazy?!
I don't know what your problem is honestly, it seems like you simply are unhappy that you're models aren't well received and are lashing out to people around you, which trust me, isn't cool at all. It's especially not cool to go to a models page in the workshop and badmouth it without constructive feedback or warning, saying a simple "This model is not real, it's false display" is not cool at all man.
It also doesn't help your argument when you say the 'system is rigged', because at that point, you kinda start losing your audience.
About your models: Yeah, I suggest you go back and do them again, because they really don't work. They lack any type of color-scheme, they're single shade of grey or white, I don't see any Point-Light shadow cast from top to bottom which is mentioned in the documentation, no proper Normal maps which pop the details, especially for stuff like the fresnel, and none-of-them seem to have a specular definition...AT ALL, you can clearly see Tide-Hunter's oily body with a nice shine and shading, your model doesn't have any of that, it doesn't even look dry, it just looks like floating geometry with plain colors.
Your latest piece for Spirit Breaker is much better, but I cannot say more because the picture is soo small that I cannot make anything out. It also doesn't help that the ONLY large image you have of that item (seriously? An arm item is put in the back slot?) you have faked the fresnel effect with a cheap emboss, which is cheating, since ingame it will look radically different.
The thumbnails aren't that hard to make, just have a gradient background/blurry color background with a simple border around and call it a day. It will literally take you 5 minutes to setup a simple template for your thumbnails, I don't see whats so 'cheating' about that, since in my books an emboss on the only large image is more cheating them a vignette on a small/tiny thumbnail that is supplied with 2 large images inside.
Take a break, cool your engines and come back to making more awesome art, complaining about the 'system being rigged' (which it isn't in the first place) will serve you no purpose other then not improving.
"No shit, they get compiled."--no, you start with the 256 or you would get horrible seams. Stop saying nonsense.
"I don't know what your problem is honestly, it seems like you simply are unhappy that you're models aren't well received and are lashing out to people around you, which trust me, isn't cool at all. It's especially not cool to go to a models page in the workshop and badmouth it without constructive feedback or warning, saying a simple "This model is not real, it's false display" is not cool at all man."--again, untrue. I have only made 2 sets. My first set wasn't even within the LOD limit, so I had to come back to redo it. And that set was received fine. That isn't my point, but I think your bias is obviously driving your points. I just use logic.
"About your models: Yeah, I suggest you go back and do them again, because they really don't work. They lack any type of color-scheme, they're single shade of grey or white, I don't see any Point-Light shadow cast from top to bottom which is mentioned in the documentation, no proper Normal maps which pop the details, especially for stuff like the fresnel, and none-of-them seem to have a specular definition...AT ALL, you can clearly see Tide-Hunter's oily body with a nice shine and shading, your model doesn't have any of that, it doesn't even look dry, it just looks like floating geometry with plain colors."-again, untrue. My mask files are beyond complex, even at 256.
"Take a break, cool your engines and come back to making more awesome art, complaining about the 'system being rigged' (which it isn't in the first place) will serve you no purpose other then not improving."--this just isn't the case. You should read Mr.President's comment. He seems to have more wisdom then you present. The system isn't rigged. I'm just being honest. Honesty. That is a hard policy, but I'm sticking to it. A lot of your comments are dishonest:"I can very clearly see the jaggy edges of the models in that picture"--that is a lie. Kind of hard to do with SMOOTH normals with 1 to 2K normal maps. You need to rewind your roll.
"Your latest piece for Spirit Breaker is much better, but I cannot say more because the picture is soo small that I cannot make anything out. It also doesn't help that the ONLY large image you have of that item (seriously? An arm item is put in the back slot?) you have faked the fresnel effect with a cheap emboss, which is cheating, since ingame it will look radically different."--I can generate 1000 and 2000 textures to generate a false preview file, but they will never be in the game. It just isn't real.
Man, you have no idea what you're talking about. For the last few days you've been on a tear giving terrible advice, and now this tirade against presentation. You should stop posting and just listen...
Your ideals about presentation are unrealistic and pointless. Everyone generally provides in-game shots anyway, so maybe you should be informing people to look more closely instead.
I don't know how old you are or where you are from, but you seem to be missing some basic facts about presentation and marketing. Have you ever seen a tv commercial? When you buy the toy, you don't get the jungle environment to play in.
Presentation is important so people put their best foot forward, that's just how it is; welcome to the real world. The only thing you can do is step-up instead of expecting everyone else to conform to your ideals.
To address the above quote, look up texture padding. It adds extra pixels around your bakes/textures so that when the texture is resized there's extra pixels around the uv shells and you won't end up with unwanted seams or pixel bleed.
To address the above quote, look up texture padding. It adds extra pixels around your bakes/textures so that when the texture is resized there's extra pixels around the uv shells and you won't end up with unwanted seams or pixel bleed."
I used plenty of texturing padding, but it is an unnecessary step with questionable outcomes. It is just easier to generate 256X256 straight up. You should do the comparisons. You aren't getting any more detail by shrinking those 1000k or 2000k maps, but losing more detail that you would save by generating the maps at size. So, tell me again. The real point, is that BAD information isn't what I give out. Take your 2000k maps and generate the borders necessary for a bleed over, yet make sure the UV layout is using as much map as possible. Your maps would be undersized to compensate for this issue. That wouldn't be the best use of your UV space. How can I know? Oh, I know, because when I originally created my own pipeline, I tested all these methods. Yes, for simple colors and textures, this will hardly be an issue, but you aren't getting any more detail. I'm kind of embarrassed for you, Frump. The amount of padding you would need on complex texturing and normals would take away from your UV layout space, which again, would defeat the purpose of good UV placement. Again, simple texture painting would solve that issue without any seams. I see a lot of the simple texture painting, so my comments are strictly for Zbrush users. Anyway, the real beef I have, it just nailing down a structure. Nailing down a framework. That is why I'm on such a tear. I just want to hammer down the pipeline for myself. I let a lot of misinformation hit this board without taking a stab at it, but sometimes I have to go after it.
Anyway, is there some texture guy which want to help me out with the texture? It really needs to go through some pro hands. It is weapon for silencer without the 450 tris version because I just did not know where to go with this item. But really if someone will want to help me I can really make it no problem and even get a better presentation. The biggest problem is that the normal map is almost unused. It is in a workshop without finalize waiting. Ty for reading. x)
But yeah, SinAmos, you're absolutely in the wrong here. Paint a texture in 256x246 and then paint the same texture in 1024x1024 and downsize it to 256x256. You'll see a very definite difference in quality.
People don't paint at higher resolution to stroke their own ego, they do it because it gives better results and allows them to be used for promotional material. People know exactly when an image is rendered externally vs when it is rendered in engine because there's only 2 possible cameras that it can be rendered from in game in first place. The idea that only the master race of 3D artists know when something is a promotional shot vs an ingame shot is ludicrous.
As for your second point of contention, when have you ever seen high grade models etc that did not have some kind of nice presentation to them. Presentation is just another part of 3D, be it to sell your design to a client or an anonymous horde or workshop viewers. Don't dress it up like it's an atrocity and a separate song-and-dance routine that you have to go through to please the dumb audience to get them to notice the REAL value in your work. The two are connected, but you're trying to tear them away from each other and blame other people for not doing that.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109335828
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109336238
&
Awesome tide hunter set, I found It hilarious and kind of cute that he has a water background, smart approach.
That is an awesome shark.
Spudnik
"But yeah, SinAmos, you're absolutely in the wrong here. Paint a texture in 256x246 and then paint the same texture in 1024x1024 and downsize it to 256x256. You'll see a very definite difference in quality."--In Zbrush, you generate a 1024X1024 map from detail texture painting and sculpting. You take that same image and downsize it in photoshop to 256X256, right? Then generate that same map in Zbrush with 256X256 as your settings. The one that you generate in the actual size will have more detail because you are generating it locally, rather than using Photoshop's algo to squish pixels. I can present pictures with the evidence, so this can finally be proven to the non-believers.
@ Everyone
I apologize for being anal. 1000k and 2000 k maps are not even close to the resolution that a 256X256 map. That is a 4X to 8X magnification in detail. Using those to generate images is no different then using Zbrush renders to create previews. I was hoping to wake up to some kind of answer. Either that render images should be constrained to the numbers they give us.
Head
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 550
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 300
Texture Size: 128H x 256W
Shoulders
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 850
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 450
Texture Size: 256H x 256W
Arms
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 400
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 300
Texture Size: 128H x 128W
Back
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 200
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 200
Texture Size: 128H x 128W
Weapon
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 1000
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 600
Texture Size: 256H x 256W
This model should primarily be bound to the bone: weapon4_0
Belt
LoD0 Triangle Limit: 400
LoD1 Triangle Limit: 250
Texture Size: 128H x 256W
I believe all preview images should be renders of these limitations. That is my own thought, but I can easily be swayed to believe that this isn't right. I just need to read some good logic.
I stand by what I said. I'm still generating all my previews from the limited texture files. It was really a battle between myself that I needed to air out to find a resolve in my own mind. Hearing everyone's input helped me draw my own conclusion. It had nothing to do with ego, but an internal struggle against mainstreaming, even if I didn't believe in those tactics.
People have given you enough reasons why it's ok to present your work as best as you can. Valve does it for gods sake.
It really seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder because other peoples work looks better than yours.
If you feel like you need to render images at 256x256 with no thought put into presentation, then go for it.
But don't start attacking others when people are turned off because your stuff looks cheap and amateurish
It really seems to me that you have a chip on your shoulder because other peoples work looks better than yours.
Just shut up. You are wrong, go away."
There is no difference between a Zbrush render and 1000/2000 k normal/texture map render, because they are both dishonest renders of the in game work. I don't care if people cheat. That is their choice, but I have the right to call them out. I'll take my Zbrush sculpts over whatever work you are referring to. Cheaters don't like to get called out and baddies don't like it either. So, Pop That Corn. And yes, I'm right, Lance Armstrong.
this is straight from the Technical requirements for items page.
"We author source textures 4 times larger than the in-game size for painting and promotional purposes. E.g. a typical weapon has texture resolution of 256x256 pixels in game but source art is 1024x1024"
Regardless of what your personal feelings are on this subject, no one has cheated, and everyone that you have mentioned that has bothered to put in the effort to market their work as best as they can have also provided in game screenshots.
No one on the asset store is being misled.
I'm also going to call you SinGAYmos to attempt to make you look like a fool and make your argument seem invalid.
There is no "cheating" going on in how anybody is choosing to represent their work. Baselessly accusing people of cheating will no longer be tolerated.
Let's get this thread back on the train of love and awesomeness. Please do not continue to fill this thread with arguments.
so let me spell this out for you like i would a 5 year old.
Its a pretty simple concept, and standard practice for every major publisher and developer.
Additionally this could have been a healthy topic of conversation that could have resulted in pages of helpful hints on how to best promote workshop submissions within a reasonable set of limitations. But you pushed for some kind of aggressive witchhunt, shame on you.
Edit: didnt see your message untill after i posted Geezus
If you'd like to protest, do not do it here. Contact me privately. If you continue to be irritating...
I accept it. It just isn't real. Moving on. I won't be a party to the false advertising. We aren't big tobacco.
I've helped more than a number of posters on serious issues and frustrations in this thread. I even have my real name mentioned in tutorials that have helped thousands understand in game scenarios during the early days of problem solving related to these in game items and heroes. I think you are way off base with your threat. I had an issue with something, which we discussed, and now it is resolved. You coming in on this thread is an executive breach.
It helped indeed, ty dude :
much better! congrats
im glad that i could help
if i may suggest something, you could try to mess around with the color a little more
the yellow and the grey parts are a little flat now, you could try some mix with other colors, maybe a gradient to fake the shadow of the botton part
a good way to get that is studying the ingame textures and try to achieve that point light bake that helps a lot
team fortress and the dota´s models are a both a good ref of color scheme that matches with the dota´s style.
if you want some guide for the texture there is a good tutorial from 3dmotive, something like hand painting textures
its a guy painting a sword and a shield, his techinique of blending colors is really easy to get
thanks man, i really dont want the polycount dota´s thead to become like the facepunch´s one
one more reason to like the polycount community =]
I tried Dota2slasher and I could make the item dissapear, but cant make to show mine.
Some help please?
Thank you!
Doing the pointlight maps tonight.
Adding a render but you cannot see very much, but you get the idea.
Will post some more when i have more color on it ^^
you can see the collection here if you're interested
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=109504892
i used gradient over the shield already, but seems i didnt got that roundness feel. I will try again later.
That shield looks pretty serious. Even in the in game preview, it really deals well with the light. It doesn't look blown out like even the armor he is wearing. I would be curious to see your map files if you would post them. I think Tvidotto's idea about using the gradient is on the money. I noticed the lighting in the in game preview doesn't reflect the true in game appearance. When you do your compile, it lets you supposedly see the in game. What was weird, is I was playing a game, and I had the Shark on Tide's back, which is completely blown out in the preview with light, but in the game, I remember the shark looking completely different. I'll have to look again, but there are strange things a foot.
No one knows?
color and UV
i got preatty economical here, and it worked tanks to tividoto. I could be even more economical, but if i do, i will have to reesculpt or redesign the whole thing. I also ditched my old normal map and mixed with a normal baked out of the color map. It made it easyer, i lost some quality on the way ... but i can still go back if i need to. for the mask 1 i go black on all channels. and for the mask 2, well that is hard to explain, and my english is kind of limited. i will post the picture instead and u can get the feel :
Why no rimlight on the shield edges in the RimLightMask? Maybe some rimlight on the top inner edge?
rimlight dont go well on metal i guess, atleast that is what i can remember fro the dota 2 pdf. and metallness, well i dont know how to use it. i figure out that if i minimize the number of variables (like the whole map1) i could handle it faster. Since map 1 is more complex and used normally to advanced fx i ditched it. Mabe i will try to use the metallness later. I just coudnt find a good value to it.
I find it best to try and find an item which uses the same material and copy the masks. That way it fits within the game
Yeah i look some pages back and I saw an other guy having the same problem as me, I did all I read here and in other post, but when I open the game to see if there is my file, it is not, I just can make disappear the default one but not appear mine.
did u try to open your files on the dota 2 importer? if so, use the files generated by the importer insted. I will probably try this way out when im finished with my model.
Ultimate Conqueror by Ahoburg! Cheers
Im not sure if I understand you, I tried copying and pasting my vvs, vtf, qc etcetc files that i get from importing my models inside dota2 workshop thing in the directory of dota2, after removing the default ones in the vpk files, but when I open the game, it just dont show anyone, a naked model, instead of showing the ones I put in the folders.
Im sure im missing something
dude .. please tell me you are modding the dota 2 test and not the dota 2 beta files, you can download dota 2 test for free if u get dota 2 beta.
From what im reading the old posts you need to get the files from your hero under material and the model files. something like this :
...materials\models\items\spirit_breaker\Crazynumber\dota2importeritemname\
...models\items\spirit_breaker\crazynumber\dota2importeritemname\
the first one will hold the textures and a .vmt file that contains the path and some other info. To read it and modify it you need VTFEDIT, just google it.
the second folder holds the geometry info. And you probably should edit the Qc file. But that i cant help u with. After u get those folders then u place on the corresponding (mirroed path) under dota 2 test and run it. But again, i never did it. im also interested on knowing how to do it.
Edit : after reading lots of older posts, seems like the best way to do it is compiling the whole thing from scrach, since we cant have acess to the qc that the dota 2 compiler creates. The qc file is a temporary file from what i learned, so we cant have access to it. one possibility is getting the file whyle the dota 2 compiler creates it. I had access to some raw textures files when i deleted all the spirit breaker files on materials\models\items\spirit_breaker\Crazynumber\dota2importeritemname\ there is a possibility that this also works with the qc files on the models\heros. I will try it here and report back.
Edit 2 : ok ... in fact no need to do that. you can decompile the file with Cannonfodder's studio compiler, then change the paths and recompile then.
That looks awesome. Good job.