Not sure if I'm gonna scratch and weather this one. I like that it has a nice clean look. Clean is in keeping with the original "Dota 2" style imo, which some of workshop highlights I've been seeing these few months certainly don't do.
Details are definitely crowd-pleasers though. I'll decide after the other parts (shoulder and bracer) are done.The sculpted shapes don't seem to look that interesting on their own, so it's a bit of a dilemma.
I absolutely love the level of detail in the sculpt right now. The layering of the different materials is really interesting, wouldn't say you'd need to overdo it too much.
@Channfree THe fastest way to test rough model courier (or ward) is to bind it to ONLY 1 Joint ( and write it's name in all three helper root locations).
Maybe you exporting mesh not binded to anything , or exporting joint chain to the Mesh slot or something like that , because FBX should work ok( try it with 1 join(bone)) and that will work with complex hierarchy the same way.
FBX is the simpliest way to test courier , if you dont want to make any particles or special jiggle bones , special diffirent timing for your animations , but i think that's not necessary at all.
So essentially bind the entire model to the root joint?
What if your testing a fully rigged and binded courier model with animation, what do you do then?
@CHannfree binding to the root joint is ONLY to test /Static\ mesh in early stages of creation.
1)Export your mesh:
Chosse mesh >Export selected> then you can turn Animation off (in Export options menu, everything else default) or Bake Animation only for 1 frame (start 1 - End 1 for example), your bind pose. ( I test it with bake , because i have wierd errors without it, because of lots of parenting and add. attributes in scene.
2)Export your animation:
You need to export animations in FBX , with Bake Animation option On. And deformed models off(just for lower file size). Baking is because you have control curves that move joints ( Maya bakes parent-relations between any joint hierarchies and controls (that move them)in scene to a new file , where your joints will have keys on each frame. And that is easly readable by game importer.
Yeah I agree with Vayne on this, although I believe this might be because of the strands of grey, try to reduce those a bit and I think it'll look way better.
The base colour on her legs is quite saturated, I'd say you can push the red ribbons as far as this no probs. Taking some of the white from the base body on the hair tips could also give them quite the kicker and help frame the face. You could even use the white to do "streaks" twisting down the plaited hair.
@Anuxi: Indeed what the others allready said, I think a bit more saturation will do a lot. Looks great as always though. So yalous on your fur modeling
I've did some work on a Tidehunter item. This will probably be my first item with some particles. Really exited for that. Let me know what u guys think. What i did notice that tidehunter items got a lot more realistic textures than other heroes, so I also made it a bit more realistic than I would normally do.
Still thinking about making this into a small set, but not sure yet.
Kraken: first hehe , love the mini bh courier:)
blossomalex: nice helm:)
Anuxi : I would make the furr from the dress in a pinkish collor like the end of the spear, looks lovely as usual , are you gonna make a furry themred chest:D?
Finished a tidehunter set , drop a like if u wish
Hey guys, it's been a long I started this piece, but I finally managed to finish it! I've learned a lot working with this mount, and I really have to say a BIG thanks for all the AMAZING help from Onilolz and Zaphk, the AWESOME documents by Pior and Vlad, and for the mental enlightenment from Horse Strangler (which made the particles come to life), and Akaime, for constant feedback.
Hey guys, it's been a long I started this piece, but I finally managed to finish it! I've learned a lot working with this mount, and I really have to say a BIG thanks for all the AMAZING help from Onilolz and Zaphk, the AWESOME documents by Pior and Vlad, and for the mental enlightenment from Horse Strangler (which made the particles come to life), and Akaime, for constant feedback.
Congrats to anyone with their hero sets in! A lot of amazing designs there, good job. I'm a lil concern on what happened to Kanyu the Land Shark, any idea what it means when they remove the portrait entry?
Congrats to anyone with their hero sets in! A lot of amazing designs there, good job. I'm a lil concern on what happened to Kanyu the Land Shark, any idea what it means when they remove the portrait entry?
Its done obviously, no land shark, im pretty sure that all sets who had even inventory icons few weeks ago like my tusk, terror set (surprised that it didnt make in the patch), wr set, void etc from august-sept content analyses are gone forever
Looks to me like single items are going the way of the dodo.
If the drops are all sets now and the chests are all sets now it'll be hard for them to release a single item chest that can be perceived as being just as worthwhile as a set chest imo. The single items would need to be pretty premium quality or have special effects like the immortal stuff and be at a fraction of the price of the set chests at that.
Wonder if there is any monetisation for items that are in the drop system only? Perhaps a single item chest could drop through the drop system, but if there is no monetisation it wouldn't be too worthwhile to continue making single items vs sets.
Other thing worth mentioning is that new sets from chest will be marketable after February. Maybe that seems cruel but in my opinion that is a good direction. It was for sure lowering revenue from chests because most people would just go to market and buy sets at 50% first day
Other thing worth mentioning is that new sets from chest will be marketable after February. Maybe that seems cruel but in my opinion that is a good direction. It was for sure lowering revenue from chests because most people would just go to market and buy sets at 50% first day
While as a contributor I like that this may possibly increase chest sales, as a consumer I really dislike this. Before this update, I would usually just buy a couple of chests, and if I didn't get what I wanted I would just grab it off the market, but now, Valve forces me to keep buying chests until I get the item I want by luck, and that doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. At least the majority of the items on this recent chest are quite good, but right now after buying 4 chests I still don't have what I want, and playing lottery is not something I personally enjoy, specially when there's a high chance that I'm going to get something that I don't like and/or for a hero that I don't play and I just can't do anything besides leaving it to rot in my inventory.
I also think that 3 months is quite a long time, I'd like to see that reduced to 1 or 2 months at a maximum. By that time, everyone will just forget whatever they were looking for.
Looks to me like single items are going the way of the dodo.
If the drops are all sets now and the chests are all sets now it'll be hard for them to release a single item chest that can be perceived as being just as worthwhile as a set chest imo. The single items would need to be pretty premium quality or have special effects like the immortal stuff and be at a fraction of the price of the set chests at that.
Wonder if there is any monetisation for items that are in the drop system only? Perhaps a single item chest could drop through the drop system, but if there is no monetisation it wouldn't be too worthwhile to continue making single items vs sets.
Well I guess this will be worthless
Well anyways. To make singles valuable, they have to market it more than sets. It'll make those singles worth more than the sets. However those singles must not only be in premium quality but it also needs particle effects, which would be difficult to pull off.
As for monetization for the drop system, they can't really do anything about that. Maybe if there was some sort of way that customers who really like an item can "donate" through steam.
Organizations are ruining the workshop purpose. It's a total disrespect to other artists having a group of people breaking the workshop rules. Now they don't even need to go on public vote, just because they got a youtube channel.
"No one in the workshop has privileges". yeah yeah, sure sure.
Organizations are ruining the workshop purpose. It's a total disrespect to other artists having a group of people breaking the workshop rules. Now they don't even need to go on public vote, just because they got a youtube channel.
"No one in the workshop has privileges". yeah yeah, sure sure.
I bet if a pro player endorses my item itll skyrocket my item (its not doing too well in the workshop)
Organizations are ruining the workshop purpose. It's a total disrespect to other artists having a group of people breaking the workshop rules. Now they don't even need to go on public vote, just because they got a youtube channel.
"No one in the workshop has privileges". yeah yeah, sure sure.
yeah.. they can break their own rules whenever, as they've shown plenty of times. It is frustrating. We've been told time and time again that everything HAS to be on the workshop and voted on. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Lol, okay... sure. Unless you are buddy buddy I guess. It's kinda uncool. Great if you work with DC, dogshit if you're anyone else.
but who knows, maybe this is a start of them doing this more often for a lot of leagues? I'm not really sure. It really depends if they keep this up or if the privilege stays exclusive to them... to early to tell but confusing nonetheless.
yeah.. they can break their own rules whenever, as they've shown plenty of times. It is frustrating. We've been told time and time again that everything HAS to be on the workshop and voted on. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Lol, okay... sure. Unless you are buddy buddy I guess. It's kinda uncool. Great if you work with DC, dogshit if you're anyone else.
but who knows, maybe this is a start of them doing this more often for a lot of leagues? I'm not really sure. It really depends if they keep this up or if the privilege stays exclusive to them... to early to tell but confusing nonetheless.
Organizations are ruining the workshop purpose. It's a total disrespect to other artists having a group of people breaking the workshop rules. Now they don't even need to go on public vote, just because they got a youtube channel.
"No one in the workshop has privileges". yeah yeah, sure sure.
Really don't understand why there is so much negativity towards us, or the assumption that Valve is under our control in what we do. A year before even entering the workshop, we created a show advertising workshop artists for free - and we still do that to this day. We've always been pro-artist and have been very happy that so many more artists are getting included in chests - and I think you are all going to be very happy with upcoming changes to the workshop as well.
There is no reason that organizations and singular artists can't co-exist.
Really don't understand why there is so much negativity towards us, or the assumption that Valve is under our control in what we do. A year before even entering the workshop, we created a show advertising workshop artists for free - and we still do that to this day. We've always been pro-artist and have been very happy that so many more artists are getting included in chests - and I think you are all going to be very happy with upcoming changes to the workshop as well.
There is no reason that organizations and singular artists can't co-exist.
So having an exception on item submissions having to go through the workshop is okay? While everyone else needs a public workshop submission just so they can get something ingame, DC gets a free pass because they have a popular YouTube channel or something. Don't even get me started on the quality of said items.
I don't see how 'advertising workshop artists for free' is relevant at all (specially since it has nearly no influence on actual traffic). It seems like you're trying to come up with an excuse on why DC items don't need community approval like every other tournament item.
I'm interested on those 'upcoming changes to the workshop', since apparently no one has been informed of anything of the sort as far as I know. Are we back to secret emailing lists?
Organizations and single artists coexisting isn't an issue, the issue is when a few select organizations get priority and are able to ignore rules that everyone else has to abide to, just because they happen to be popular, even when some of their submissions aren't up to par with what I'd expect from an organization that has said privileges.
Really don't understand why there is so much negativity towards us,
to be clear, I'm not upset at you guys at all. You're doing exactly what you should be doing. The only negativity here is towards Valve's blatant double standards, and the fact that the actual workshop artists always seem to be the last to hear about anything workshop related. When I have to hear 99% of updates through a third party or dota celeb it's hard not to feel mildly confused and incredibly left out... and we're the ones making the items! I hope this makes sense.
Really don't understand why there is so much negativity towards us, or the assumption that Valve is under our control in what we do. A year before even entering the workshop, we created a show advertising workshop artists for free - and we still do that to this day. We've always been pro-artist and have been very happy that so many more artists are getting included in chests - and I think you are all going to be very happy with upcoming changes to the workshop as well.
There is no reason that organizations and singular artists can't co-exist.
I don't think anyone has aimed that negativity toward DC in any way in reguards to this. Our anger is aimed toward valve for their lack of consistency. Having worked on both Summits and both ESLs this year alone, we have been told by valve directly where they state that all items that are bundled with tickets need to be submitted publicly on the workshop to be voted on. We've also had them tell us that we were not aloud to say these items were to be bundled with the ticket before they have been approved. And even in the league guide by valve themselves they state that;
But then, we find that both the Mirana mount and the Juggernaut set were not on the workshop publicly. I have to imagine they were submitted privately and are currently marked hidden. With that being said, I repeat, our anger is aimed at the inconsistancy presented at valve. This isn't about you.
"I think you are all going to be very happy with upcoming changes to the workshop as well."
And finally, I'm sure I'm going to be happy, but why is this information known by organizations before the artist creating the actual content themselves? Why don't we know? And if you know why aren't you sharing this information with us? At the end of the day, and most of this I'm repeating, I'm not mad at Dota Cinema, I never really have been, but what I am annoyed at is the blatant lack of communication and consistency presented by valve, again.
Again, I have to stress - we're really in the same boat as you guys. We do what we are told and go with what needs to be done.
As for the latter, I never said anything about hearing that information from Valve. Again, same boat as all of you - heard it from other workshop people. In any industry, networking is important. Instead of destroying bridges, let's build them with trust instead of assumptions.
And finally, I'm sure I'm going to be happy, but why is this information known by organizations before the artist creating the actual content themselves? Why don't we know? And if you know why aren't you sharing this information with us? At the end of the day, and most of this I'm repeating, I'm not mad at Dota Cinema, I never really have been, but what I am annoyed at is the blatant lack of communication and consistency presented by valve, again.
This is where my mind is at too. I have zero qualms with DC, in fact I'm a big fan and appreciate all you do for the community (and I always get a kick out of seeing my items featured on your channel!), it's just that you've ended up being an example of this unfair practice, intentionally or otherwise, and it's being used to highlight the issues that we have with the way the workshop seems to be run right now.
It's not a good trend. As of my last item being accepted I've made the jump to the workshop being my sole income, as I'm sure it is for many others here, and it's very uncomfortable to be kept in the dark. Valve isn't good at communication, we knew that going in, but if they're communicating with anyone it should be us.
Again, I have to stress - we're really in the same boat as you guys. We do what we are told and go with what needs to be done.
As for the latter, I never said anything about hearing that information from Valve. Again, same boat as all of you - heard it from other workshop people. In any industry, networking is important. Instead of destroying bridges, let's build them with trust instead of assumptions.
Totally, 100% in agreement. The workshop is one of the most positive things that I have ever encountered in this industry or otherwise, so lets try to keep it that way.
When they started accepting submissions it was under VERY strict guidelines.
But then:
Promos. Max head and Earbuds. They broke the rules to cross promo games/platforms and the rules have been wishy washy ever since.
We'll never be able to out guess or even know what they are thinking half the time. Just gotta roll with it. Try to stick to their boundries and if you have something so cool they might break the rules go for it and see what happens.
This note they've wrote because of my storm set. I've gave it to Synergy league. Each news about this tournament was with our set, but at the start of league, valve said that they don't like it.
for example http://www.joindota.com/en/news/21157-36-teams-join-synergy-league,-16-from-sea
but no stormerino with ticket, only lina
We all should know that Valve is run by people same like us. They try to set up rules for things for general good, however sometimes lack of time, deadlines or just miss communication make things to go in different direction.
I would not be surprised if short amount of time or some kind of problems along the way would make them accept Juggernaut set and Mirana mount outside of workshop procedure.
Every previous DC work were done, advertised and so on weeks if not months before release and were also uploaded to workshop. DC Chest for example, every single set went to workshop for community vote.
To be honest personally I would prefer that leagues, tournaments, pro player sets were not upload to workshop because they occupy space and visibility that normal/our submissions could take advantage of.
Clearly Valve and DC are not a bunch of evil villains laughing now how they tricked everyone. There was clearly something going on, that forced them to take such short path into the game. I am also sure such one time favor is not limited only to DC and Valve for sure would help other organizations/host/artists in need
Ahh one more thing, its Valves game and they can do anything they want with it and change rules whenever they wish. We should remember this. They owe us nothing ^^'
What I said is maybe harsh but I learned just to not care, think or try to understand as when I did it always obscured my ability to actually make art So I advise everyone just to focus on what they are best at - making art. As the end of the day I am happy DC items didn't go into workshop as that left more space for our work
Konras : Agree , I would love tournament sets to be hidden ,becouse it doesnt matter if they have the stars or not , its directly sent to valve to evaluate it .
I dont mind DC getting all this shit ; the only time I will be annoyed is if they will have a chest in , and that being the only chest for the month / or monopolizing the workshop
Its not about hate against DC. You guys makes a excellent job with adverstising and the top workshop of the week, no one can't say you dont, and we are all thankfully for that.
But once you break the rules, isn't it pretty clear you are in a different boat from the workshopers? I mean, I have no knowledge about an item that haven't been submited in public votation and has been accepted, until now.
I hope you understand our point of being always left in the dark, no feedback at all, and then BOOM someone breaks the rules written by Valve itself. You can't expect anyone to be happy about this.
To be honest personally I would prefer that leagues, tournaments, pro player sets were not upload to workshop because they occupy space and visibility that normal/our submissions could take advantage of.
Having one slot for their item would still be a better option than not having any. The point of having the workshop is for the community to decide whether or not they want an item or not. While true that most people just vote in favor of their perferred teams/organization, it still brings them to every other artists' level. Bypassing the workshop is like having somebody at valve getting your items in Via express lane.
Having a set into one submission should be enough to alleviate the hidden areas or better yet, another category. (like how custom maps have their own little section)
We all should know that Valve is run by people same like us. They try to set up rules for things for general good, however sometimes lack of time, deadlines or just miss communication make things to go in different direction.
I would not be surprised if short amount of time or some kind of problems along the way would make them accept Juggernaut set and Mirana mount outside of workshop procedure.
Every previous DC work were done, advertised and so on weeks if not months before release and were also uploaded to workshop. DC Chest for example, every single set went to workshop for community vote.
To be honest personally I would prefer that leagues, tournaments, pro player sets were not upload to workshop because they occupy space and visibility that normal/our submissions could take advantage of.
Clearly Valve and DC are not a bunch of evil villains laughing now how they tricked everyone. There was clearly something going on, that forced them to take such short path into the game. I am also sure such one time favor is not limited only to DC and Valve for sure would help other organizations/host/artists in need
Ahh one more thing, its Valves game and they can do anything they want with it and change rules whenever they wish. We should remember this. They owe us nothing ^^'
What I said is maybe harsh but I learned just to not care, think or try to understand as when I did it always obscured my ability to actually make art So I advise everyone just to focus on what they are best at - making art. As the end of the day I am happy DC items didn't go into workshop as that left more space for our work
Its not about hate against DC. You guys makes a excellent job with adverstising and the top workshop of the week, no one can't say you dont, and we are all thankfully for that.
But once you break the rules, isn't it pretty clear you are in a different boat from the workshopers? I mean, I have no knowledge about an item that haven't been submited in public votation and has been accepted, until now.
I hope you understand our point of being always left in the dark, no feedback at all, and then BOOM someone breaks the rules written by Valve itself. You can't expect anyone to be happy about this.
What rules did we break? I really don't know how many times I have to say here that we are just like all of you - doing what we are told. If we could make rules, bend rules, and do whatever we want, then that would be amazing... and that would also make us Valve. We're NOT Valve.
Having one slot for their item would still be a better option than not having any. The point of having the workshop is for the community to decide whether or not they want an item or not. While true that most people just vote in favor of their perferred teams/organization, it still brings them to every other artists' level. Bypassing the workshop is like having somebody at valve getting your items in Via express lane.
Having a set into one submission should be enough to alleviate the hidden areas or better yet, another category. (like how custom maps have their own little section)
As stated above - that's up to Valve. Seems that even if artists or organizations go through the proper process - it's up to Valve to make the ultimate decision as they have done with Nikey - and also something they did similarly to another tournament/organization who was supposed to have a courier released but then had to change it last minute.
Don't know why people want to draw some imaginary line between workshop artists and organizations when we're all just trying to make-do and work with what we are given. As Konras already stated, if exceptions were made, and have been made in previous instances, there has to be a reason that Valve chose to do so - and as much as we would like to think we're owed an explanation all the time, we're not entitled to anything other than things that directly affect you. Would I love to know why Nikey's Storm Spirit set was suddenly not acceptable? Sure. But really, that's between the artist, the organization and Valve. Not me.
Hi there man - nice to see you guys here, and congrats on another well-rounded item getting in !
What rules did we break? I really don't know how many times I have to say here that we are just like all of you - doing what we are told.
I will try to clarify what people mean. I think the reason why people might feel like rules got shifted here is pretty obvious (and of course, I am not saying that you guys created the situation - I am just talking from a very objective perspective here). The official, supported way of submitting items to the workshop is as follows :
- creating a design ;
- submitting it to the workshop for the community of players to view it, rate it, and comment on it ;
- waiting for a while (which can be a bit nerve wracking ... but there is also a great sense of satisfaction to be derived from having the design fully available for people to see ! )
- eventually, all these efforts get rewarded by the item making its way into the game.
The one thing that I actually find to be quite fair about third party-submitted items is that they have to go through the same channels, and being submitted to the same standards of judgement. That's pretty awesome - no special cases ! However if I am not mistaken, this set went in differently :
- a design was created ;
- some communication happened between Valve and a third party about the condition of acceptance of this design (this is the part that people are speculating about, quite naturally) ;
- The design was approved outside of the publicly visible Workshop ;
- The item makes its way to the game.
Now of course I am not criticizing you guys, as, like you said, you proceeded as instructed. But I personally cannot blame anyone for being frustrated with the fact that there seems to be some kind of unofficial communication channel that content creators do not have access to. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Valve should necessarily directly communicate that way with artists ; as a matter of fact, I am personally pretty content with the system as it is, as it creates a strong drive for self-criticism and dedication to the craft. But it is understandable that many artists would really *love* to be told what to do when their hard work gets stuck in workshop limbo for months.
On a semi-related note, I actually empathize a lot with the artists involved with this project, because they certainly put a lot of hard work into it without being able to get the appreciation of their peers in return (through encouragement and constructive critiques here on Polycount, or through workshop ratings and comments). I personally find this to be a very important, if not *the most* important part of the creative process, and it's a bit of a shame that these guys didn't get the chance to experience that ...
This is just my opinion of course, and I hope I didn't misunderstand anything. I hope this helps !
Replies
MrNobody109 : looks great , I'm sure it will get in
Hey guys , check out my courier I just finished
workshop link:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=332247045
ty
I absolutely love the level of detail in the sculpt right now. The layering of the different materials is really interesting, wouldn't say you'd need to overdo it too much.
So essentially bind the entire model to the root joint?
What if your testing a fully rigged and binded courier model with animation, what do you do then?
1)Export your mesh:
Chosse mesh >Export selected> then you can turn Animation off (in Export options menu, everything else default) or Bake Animation only for 1 frame (start 1 - End 1 for example), your bind pose. ( I test it with bake , because i have wierd errors without it, because of lots of parenting and add. attributes in scene.
2)Export your animation:
You need to export animations in FBX , with Bake Animation option On. And deformed models off(just for lower file size). Baking is because you have control curves that move joints ( Maya bakes parent-relations between any joint hierarchies and controls (that move them)in scene to a new file , where your joints will have keys on each frame. And that is easly readable by game importer.
That is only how i do it, and that works fine)
Still getting the same issues when I do the test thing, I bound everything to one bone and it still pops up the same, this should be impossible!!!!!
I am stuck here, hmmmmm...
Nevermind it worked.... hmmm must be something with everything rigged together
Here is my WIP, i'm making texture for bounty hunter courier currently:
tablet stylus is missing again. the joys of children....sheesh.
War Path
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=332989256
-Toasty
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=332771647
Thank you!
-Toasty
I've did some work on a Tidehunter item. This will probably be my first item with some particles. Really exited for that. Let me know what u guys think. What i did notice that tidehunter items got a lot more realistic textures than other heroes, so I also made it a bit more realistic than I would normally do.
Still thinking about making this into a small set, but not sure yet.
blossomalex: nice helm:)
Anuxi : I would make the furr from the dress in a pinkish collor like the end of the spear, looks lovely as usual , are you gonna make a furry themred chest:D?
Finished a tidehunter set , drop a like if u wish
workshop link:http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=333729167
Hey guys, it's been a long I started this piece, but I finally managed to finish it! I've learned a lot working with this mount, and I really have to say a BIG thanks for all the AMAZING help from Onilolz and Zaphk, the AWESOME documents by Pior and Vlad, and for the mental enlightenment from Horse Strangler (which made the particles come to life), and Akaime, for constant feedback.
And hell yeah, I love foxes
So, drop a like if you wish!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=333751563
if this mount got in game and i got that, i gonna rename that as Ahri.:poly124:
or Peacock Fox Horse
If the drops are all sets now and the chests are all sets now it'll be hard for them to release a single item chest that can be perceived as being just as worthwhile as a set chest imo. The single items would need to be pretty premium quality or have special effects like the immortal stuff and be at a fraction of the price of the set chests at that.
Wonder if there is any monetisation for items that are in the drop system only? Perhaps a single item chest could drop through the drop system, but if there is no monetisation it wouldn't be too worthwhile to continue making single items vs sets.
While as a contributor I like that this may possibly increase chest sales, as a consumer I really dislike this. Before this update, I would usually just buy a couple of chests, and if I didn't get what I wanted I would just grab it off the market, but now, Valve forces me to keep buying chests until I get the item I want by luck, and that doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. At least the majority of the items on this recent chest are quite good, but right now after buying 4 chests I still don't have what I want, and playing lottery is not something I personally enjoy, specially when there's a high chance that I'm going to get something that I don't like and/or for a hero that I don't play and I just can't do anything besides leaving it to rot in my inventory.
I also think that 3 months is quite a long time, I'd like to see that reduced to 1 or 2 months at a maximum. By that time, everyone will just forget whatever they were looking for.
Well I guess this will be worthless
Well anyways. To make singles valuable, they have to market it more than sets. It'll make those singles worth more than the sets. However those singles must not only be in premium quality but it also needs particle effects, which would be difficult to pull off.
As for monetization for the drop system, they can't really do anything about that. Maybe if there was some sort of way that customers who really like an item can "donate" through steam.
"No one in the workshop has privileges". yeah yeah, sure sure.
I bet if a pro player endorses my item itll skyrocket my item (its not doing too well in the workshop)
yeah.. they can break their own rules whenever, as they've shown plenty of times. It is frustrating. We've been told time and time again that everything HAS to be on the workshop and voted on. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Lol, okay... sure. Unless you are buddy buddy I guess. It's kinda uncool. Great if you work with DC, dogshit if you're anyone else.
but who knows, maybe this is a start of them doing this more often for a lot of leagues? I'm not really sure. It really depends if they keep this up or if the privilege stays exclusive to them... to early to tell but confusing nonetheless.
Unstable Cannon Ward
Really don't understand why there is so much negativity towards us, or the assumption that Valve is under our control in what we do. A year before even entering the workshop, we created a show advertising workshop artists for free - and we still do that to this day. We've always been pro-artist and have been very happy that so many more artists are getting included in chests - and I think you are all going to be very happy with upcoming changes to the workshop as well.
There is no reason that organizations and singular artists can't co-exist.
So having an exception on item submissions having to go through the workshop is okay? While everyone else needs a public workshop submission just so they can get something ingame, DC gets a free pass because they have a popular YouTube channel or something. Don't even get me started on the quality of said items.
I don't see how 'advertising workshop artists for free' is relevant at all (specially since it has nearly no influence on actual traffic). It seems like you're trying to come up with an excuse on why DC items don't need community approval like every other tournament item.
I'm interested on those 'upcoming changes to the workshop', since apparently no one has been informed of anything of the sort as far as I know. Are we back to secret emailing lists?
Organizations and single artists coexisting isn't an issue, the issue is when a few select organizations get priority and are able to ignore rules that everyone else has to abide to, just because they happen to be popular, even when some of their submissions aren't up to par with what I'd expect from an organization that has said privileges.
to be clear, I'm not upset at you guys at all. You're doing exactly what you should be doing. The only negativity here is towards Valve's blatant double standards, and the fact that the actual workshop artists always seem to be the last to hear about anything workshop related. When I have to hear 99% of updates through a third party or dota celeb it's hard not to feel mildly confused and incredibly left out... and we're the ones making the items! I hope this makes sense.
I don't think anyone has aimed that negativity toward DC in any way in reguards to this. Our anger is aimed toward valve for their lack of consistency. Having worked on both Summits and both ESLs this year alone, we have been told by valve directly where they state that all items that are bundled with tickets need to be submitted publicly on the workshop to be voted on. We've also had them tell us that we were not aloud to say these items were to be bundled with the ticket before they have been approved. And even in the league guide by valve themselves they state that;
You can read all about it here.
But then, we find that both the Mirana mount and the Juggernaut set were not on the workshop publicly. I have to imagine they were submitted privately and are currently marked hidden. With that being said, I repeat, our anger is aimed at the inconsistancy presented at valve. This isn't about you.
And finally, I'm sure I'm going to be happy, but why is this information known by organizations before the artist creating the actual content themselves? Why don't we know? And if you know why aren't you sharing this information with us? At the end of the day, and most of this I'm repeating, I'm not mad at Dota Cinema, I never really have been, but what I am annoyed at is the blatant lack of communication and consistency presented by valve, again.
As for the latter, I never said anything about hearing that information from Valve. Again, same boat as all of you - heard it from other workshop people. In any industry, networking is important. Instead of destroying bridges, let's build them with trust instead of assumptions.
This is where my mind is at too. I have zero qualms with DC, in fact I'm a big fan and appreciate all you do for the community (and I always get a kick out of seeing my items featured on your channel!), it's just that you've ended up being an example of this unfair practice, intentionally or otherwise, and it's being used to highlight the issues that we have with the way the workshop seems to be run right now.
It's not a good trend. As of my last item being accepted I've made the jump to the workshop being my sole income, as I'm sure it is for many others here, and it's very uncomfortable to be kept in the dark. Valve isn't good at communication, we knew that going in, but if they're communicating with anyone it should be us.
EDIT: Missed this when I was typing my response:
Totally, 100% in agreement. The workshop is one of the most positive things that I have ever encountered in this industry or otherwise, so lets try to keep it that way.
Look at TF2 as example.
When they started accepting submissions it was under VERY strict guidelines.
But then:
Promos. Max head and Earbuds. They broke the rules to cross promo games/platforms and the rules have been wishy washy ever since.
We'll never be able to out guess or even know what they are thinking half the time. Just gotta roll with it. Try to stick to their boundries and if you have something so cool they might break the rules go for it and see what happens.
I proudly present - MORPHLING ARCANA
This note they've wrote because of my storm set. I've gave it to Synergy league. Each news about this tournament was with our set, but at the start of league, valve said that they don't like it.
for example http://www.joindota.com/en/news/21157-36-teams-join-synergy-league,-16-from-sea
but no stormerino with ticket, only lina
I laughed waaay to hard on this one
sorry for the interruption guys ...
We all should know that Valve is run by people same like us. They try to set up rules for things for general good, however sometimes lack of time, deadlines or just miss communication make things to go in different direction.
I would not be surprised if short amount of time or some kind of problems along the way would make them accept Juggernaut set and Mirana mount outside of workshop procedure.
Every previous DC work were done, advertised and so on weeks if not months before release and were also uploaded to workshop. DC Chest for example, every single set went to workshop for community vote.
To be honest personally I would prefer that leagues, tournaments, pro player sets were not upload to workshop because they occupy space and visibility that normal/our submissions could take advantage of.
Clearly Valve and DC are not a bunch of evil villains laughing now how they tricked everyone. There was clearly something going on, that forced them to take such short path into the game. I am also sure such one time favor is not limited only to DC and Valve for sure would help other organizations/host/artists in need
Ahh one more thing, its Valves game and they can do anything they want with it and change rules whenever they wish. We should remember this. They owe us nothing ^^'
What I said is maybe harsh but I learned just to not care, think or try to understand as when I did it always obscured my ability to actually make art
I dont mind DC getting all this shit ; the only time I will be annoyed is if they will have a chest in , and that being the only chest for the month / or monopolizing the workshop
But once you break the rules, isn't it pretty clear you are in a different boat from the workshopers? I mean, I have no knowledge about an item that haven't been submited in public votation and has been accepted, until now.
I hope you understand our point of being always left in the dark, no feedback at all, and then BOOM someone breaks the rules written by Valve itself. You can't expect anyone to be happy about this.
Having one slot for their item would still be a better option than not having any. The point of having the workshop is for the community to decide whether or not they want an item or not. While true that most people just vote in favor of their perferred teams/organization, it still brings them to every other artists' level. Bypassing the workshop is like having somebody at valve getting your items in Via express lane.
Having a set into one submission should be enough to alleviate the hidden areas or better yet, another category. (like how custom maps have their own little section)
EXACTLY!
What rules did we break? I really don't know how many times I have to say here that we are just like all of you - doing what we are told. If we could make rules, bend rules, and do whatever we want, then that would be amazing... and that would also make us Valve. We're NOT Valve.
As stated above - that's up to Valve. Seems that even if artists or organizations go through the proper process - it's up to Valve to make the ultimate decision as they have done with Nikey - and also something they did similarly to another tournament/organization who was supposed to have a courier released but then had to change it last minute.
Don't know why people want to draw some imaginary line between workshop artists and organizations when we're all just trying to make-do and work with what we are given. As Konras already stated, if exceptions were made, and have been made in previous instances, there has to be a reason that Valve chose to do so - and as much as we would like to think we're owed an explanation all the time, we're not entitled to anything other than things that directly affect you. Would I love to know why Nikey's Storm Spirit set was suddenly not acceptable? Sure. But really, that's between the artist, the organization and Valve. Not me.
I will try to clarify what people mean. I think the reason why people might feel like rules got shifted here is pretty obvious (and of course, I am not saying that you guys created the situation - I am just talking from a very objective perspective here). The official, supported way of submitting items to the workshop is as follows :
- creating a design ;
- submitting it to the workshop for the community of players to view it, rate it, and comment on it ;
- waiting for a while (which can be a bit nerve wracking ... but there is also a great sense of satisfaction to be derived from having the design fully available for people to see ! )
- eventually, all these efforts get rewarded by the item making its way into the game.
The one thing that I actually find to be quite fair about third party-submitted items is that they have to go through the same channels, and being submitted to the same standards of judgement. That's pretty awesome - no special cases ! However if I am not mistaken, this set went in differently :
- a design was created ;
- some communication happened between Valve and a third party about the condition of acceptance of this design (this is the part that people are speculating about, quite naturally) ;
- The design was approved outside of the publicly visible Workshop ;
- The item makes its way to the game.
Now of course I am not criticizing you guys, as, like you said, you proceeded as instructed. But I personally cannot blame anyone for being frustrated with the fact that there seems to be some kind of unofficial communication channel that content creators do not have access to. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Valve should necessarily directly communicate that way with artists ; as a matter of fact, I am personally pretty content with the system as it is, as it creates a strong drive for self-criticism and dedication to the craft. But it is understandable that many artists would really *love* to be told what to do when their hard work gets stuck in workshop limbo for months.
On a semi-related note, I actually empathize a lot with the artists involved with this project, because they certainly put a lot of hard work into it without being able to get the appreciation of their peers in return (through encouragement and constructive critiques here on Polycount, or through workshop ratings and comments). I personally find this to be a very important, if not *the most* important part of the creative process, and it's a bit of a shame that these guys didn't get the chance to experience that ...
This is just my opinion of course, and I hope I didn't misunderstand anything. I hope this helps !