Upgrading or building a new PC? This is the thread for you!

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  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    That would work fine. Keep in mind though the 7000 series of Intel CPUs run hot, so you may want to get a non-stock cooler for it.
  • mattenic98
    PolyHertz said:
    That would work fine. Keep in mind though the 7000 series of Intel CPUs run hot, so you may want to get a non-stock cooler for it.
    Ok thanks for the advice
  • TheGabmeister
    Hey guys.

    I'm planning to build a secondary rig which will become a dedicated lightmass baking PC for Unreal Engine, networked to my primary computer using Swarm. Currently doing a lot of baking in architectural scenes, and I'm at the point where making small adjustments to the lights / baking takes too much of the development time.

    Since lightmass baking is CPU only with emphasis on multiple cores and threads, I wanted to hear your opinion on which CPU has the best bang for the buck. My current workstation has an Intel i7-6700. Upgrading to an enthusiast grade Intel CPU might not be a good move because I also have to get a compatible motherboard.

    The Ryzen 7 1700 seems to be a good choice. What are your thoughts?
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    For lightmass baking, the Ryzen 8 core CPUs are about on par with the 6 core Intel CPUs. The main benefit to going with Intel would be access to 128gb of ram compared to 64gb on AM4. That said, going with AMD would be somewhat cheaper, and the AM4 platform will have future upgrade paths while Intels X99 platform is being retired.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD greentooth
    So for lightmass only, it's only CPU based, and having enough ram that it doesn't run out of memory.
    The Ryzen 7 1700 definitely the best deal for a modern high end processor, although the i7-6800K isn't far behind (if you can get it for ~$320 from Microcenter or something, although motherboards are $50, so less bang for your buck after a complete build) https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html

    What you decide to build will vary a lot depending on your budget, wants, and if you are willing to wait for i9/thread ripper. 

    Neither one of those have an integrated GPU, so hopefully you have an old one to though into the system just to get it working, otherwise that's a bit more money you'd have to throw at it. I'd probably just build the cheapest Ryzen 1700 build possible, with just enough ram for the projects you are doing, with room to upgrade if needed, but still get a reputable PSU brand since it will be running at high loads for long periods. 
  • TheGabmeister
    Ok. Thanks for your opinion. I'll go with the cheapest Ryzen 7 1700 build possible  :)
  • ahmadabubaker
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    I would switch the SSD to a Samsung 850 EVO, as it'll be about the same price and offer better performance then the Western Digital.

    For the PSU, BitFenix seems to be a lesser known brand, so despite how cheap it is for a modular PSU I probably wouldn't recommend it. Even if it's great when it's new, the real question with any PSU is how well it'll hold up several years down the line. You really don't want something that will fail, taking your entire PC with it, 3-5 years after buying it (I've had that happen twice using off-brand PSUs). EVGA, Seasonic, and Corsair are all more well established brands you might want to consider instead.

    Other then that, looks good.
  • ahmadabubaker
    Thanks PolyHertz,

    That Samsung SSD seems to be A lot better than the WD. Do you think that the 1080 would be much better in performance than the 1070 considering the price difference? I think i might be able to afford the 1080 if i save up or a couple of weeks.
  • aleksandr.kili
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    aleksandr.kili polycounter lvl 2
    Hey, I'm looking at all my options for a new build and would love some help. I want to see how reasonable it is build this myself, I'd love to but have never messed with watercooling or anything custom like this.

    I want:

    Threadripper
    96 GB RAM
    1 TB SSD
    ?? Mobo
    7 Titan XP or 1080Ti's

    I need to make sure it doesn't melt when I'm doing RT rendering , I also want to try some eth mining. I just don't know what I would need for watercooling, how complicated it will be to install, what bios tweaks im gonna need, etc etc. I probably can't go this route unless someone can hold my hand through building this, but I'm gonna spend the next few days learning as much as I can. First things first, let me make sure this is reasonable and the parts make sense.

    Thank you!
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    Hey, I'm looking at all my options for a new build and would love some help. I want to see how reasonable it is build this myself, I'd love to but have never messed with watercooling or anything custom like this.

    I want:

    Threadripper
    96 GB RAM
    1 TB SSD
    ?? Mobo
    7 Titan XP or 1080Ti's

    I need to make sure it doesn't melt when I'm doing RT rendering , I also want to try some eth mining. I just don't know what I would need for watercooling, how complicated it will be to install, what bios tweaks im gonna need, etc etc. I probably can't go this route unless someone can hold my hand through building this, but I'm gonna spend the next few days learning as much as I can. First things first, let me make sure this is reasonable and the parts make sense.

    Thank you!
    I started a reply before noticing you wanted to use 7 gpus, sounds like a fun build!

    You'll definitely want to do a custom water setup with all the GPUs in a row. Your big choice to start with is hardline or softline tubing; those AIO units won't help you here. Searching those should net you some examples and build logs to help you decide if it's something you're up for. It's not that difficult, just a bit of measuring, cutting and bending.
  • aleksandr.kili
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    aleksandr.kili polycounter lvl 2
    Hey, I'm looking at all my options for a new build and would love some help. I want to see how reasonable it is build this myself, I'd love to but have never messed with watercooling or anything custom like this.

    I want:

    Threadripper
    96 GB RAM
    1 TB SSD
    ?? Mobo
    7 Titan XP or 1080Ti's

    I need to make sure it doesn't melt when I'm doing RT rendering , I also want to try some eth mining. I just don't know what I would need for watercooling, how complicated it will be to install, what bios tweaks im gonna need, etc etc. I probably can't go this route unless someone can hold my hand through building this, but I'm gonna spend the next few days learning as much as I can. First things first, let me make sure this is reasonable and the parts make sense.

    Thank you!
    I started a reply before noticing you wanted to use 7 gpus, sounds like a fun build!

    You'll definitely want to do a custom water setup with all the GPUs in a row. Your big choice to start with is hardline or softline tubing; those AIO units won't help you here. Searching those should net you some examples and build logs to help you decide if it's something you're up for. It's not that difficult, just a bit of measuring, cutting and bending.
    It sounds like I'm gonna need this? http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ekwb-releases-seven-gpu-terminal,31220.html

    I don't know whats going on yet  though, I keep seeing build logs but none that read like instructions over just cool photos of all the hardware. I will keep looking though. I think I'll do soft, the easier the better for me on this. Thanks for the reply!
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    There are currently no Threadripper motherboards with enough PCIe slots to do that, unlike with Intel.

    People that do crypto currency mining use splitters that offer each GPU only 1x PCIe lane, however for 3D you need at least 8x lanes, so you can't use the hardware they do for extra GPUs. Check into PCIe bifurcation to maybe find some clues on solving this issue: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/pci-e-bifurcation.1398/

    I'd say wait until there is a Threadripper board with more PCIe slots, unless you're in a rush in which case you can always go with Intel (if you're willing to pay significantly more per-core...).
  • Invisionary
    Greetings programs,

    I am 38 years old so this isn't my first rodeo but I am very out of touch with changes in hardware/software over the last 5-6 years. I had some pretty big life things happen which affected my ability to keep up to date with new releases, trends and work flows that have been discovered and released. I am currently getting back into it and trying to find my inspiration. However, I am still using my 5+ year old laptop a Asus G75VX with a Wacom Bamboo. It simply cannot handle the workload or workflow of modern software.

    So that brings me to why I am here. I have poured over tons of hardware and software reviews and such and I can honestly say I am baffled by all of the choices available on the market right now. This is compounded by not having a chance to get a hands on preview of how they work, look or respond. I moved to the Philippines from Florida a number of years ago, so I can't just go to an expo/storefront and try things out like I used to. Yes they do have computer shops and such where you can try things out here, but due to the average income level of Filipinos they usually do not have top shelf items on display in stores. The Lower-Midrange is kind of "top-shelf" here.

    I would like to build an "Enthusiast" level machine. Something that will get the best bang for my buck in the following tools: Photoshop CC with Quixel Suite, 3DCoat, ZBrush, Modo, Substance Designer/Painter, and Keylight for modelling/rendering and illustration purposes. As a side note, I also am a pretty avid gamer so I would like my setup to be capable of doubling as a beastly gaming rig as well. Basically, I am planning to start creating a comic book which uses a hybrid style I've been pioneering over the last couple of decades of mixing 3D sculpts with stylized comic book style illustrations. 

    What I am envisioning for my "studio" is to have a portable sketch book I can take with me when I am on the go and/or a powerful desktop production environment. I have been searching through tons of product reviews of different display tablets like the Wacom Cintiq and the Mobile Studio Pro. Is the Mobile Studio Pro worth the money? Or is a iPad Pro 2017 a better choice for a mobile sketch pad and just use a powerful desktop with a Cintiq a better option? 

    My budget is around $3,000-$5,000 give or take a few if it will make a drastic difference. Again, I just want to reiterate that I am not looking for the absolute most expensive computer that is great on paper but rather something that will do what I ask of it without getting in my way and hampering my creative process or gaming needs (yes I really like running my games on at least 1080p on Ultra High Settings at 100hz at least). Also, the iPad Pro 2017 and Cintiq prices are not included in the budget, but the desktop monitor is. 

    As for monitor choice I am really interested in getting a 25"-35" curved display for gaming and home entertainment purposes, and using the Wacom Cintiq Pro 16 as a 4k display tablet for artistic purposes. Is this a good idea? I've heard a lot of people talking about how 4k is so great for production and how great the 21:9 monitors are for gaming. Since I'd like to do both this was what I was envisioning. 

    A rough outline of what I was thinking was something like this:

    Case: Something that blends form and function for around 150$ (I like fancy glowy bits but not at the expense of quality or efficiency)

    Monitor:
    21:9 curved display with a nice balance of fast refresh and color accuracy. Of all of the products I am going to purchase this one will probably last the longest so I want to get something that I will not want to replace in the foreseeable future.

    Mobo:
    My last desktop was using an ASRock/Intel but I've also used Asus, Gigabyte and others, I don't care about overclocking. I want out of the box performance instead and prefer higher grade components to flashy but otherwise useless frills. I believe my last board was using military grade capacitors as an example.

    CPU:
    I prefer Intel. My last system was i7 2600 I believe. Will a higher core count be beneficial in a noticeable way? Should I go for a 4/6/8 core system? At what point will the speed stop affecting the performance?

    GPU:
    I prefer Nvidia. But for artistic purposes which is the smarter buy? A Titan X with 12GB or a 1080Ti with 11GB? Also, which brand is good these days? I used to buy the eVGA overclocked boards. I read in this thread that Quadro cards are not advisable for artists anymore, which was a bit shocking to me, but I used to use one back in the day. I've never had an SLI configuration because of using quadro cards and it seems that in this thread people are recommending against using both Quadro and SLI configurations for artists. 

    RAM:
     I'd like to have around 64GB but I am unsure of at what point does the amount or speed start to fall off in usefulness? I've had a good experience with the Ripjaw series in the past. What speed/brand is going to be the best balance of performance and cost?

    System HD:
    SSD or m.2? I would like to have around 512-1TB so I am not constantly worrying about the stupid things windows does.

    Storage HD:
    While I've never been able to afford a raid 0+1 setup before I believe the price of it has come down enough to where I'd like to have at least a 1TB 0+1 setup. Simply put I want it to be fast and reliable. 

    Power Supply:
    Whatever will work. No brand preference at all.

    Cooling:
    I had a liquid cooling system in the past but I really don't care. My main concern is performance and quietness. As long as it works and it isn't loud I am going to be happy. Are liquid AIO systems worth the extra hassle?

    Tablet: Wacom Cintiq Pro 16? Is there any other option? Also, I've not had a tilt sensitive wacom since the old serial port 12x12 Wacom Intuos 1 like 15-20 years ago. Will tilt and rotation be usable in things like ZBrush/3Dcoat or will these features only work in painting programs?

    FX: If some aftermarket LED lighting strips would brighten up my computer's innards which brand do you recommend?

    And finally, are there any caveats with using this kind of setup that I should be aware of? Like will be great for CPU based renders but not be all that great for GPU rendering? Wavy lines and such. I've seen some people talking about this on Wacom forums and about the 21:9 monitors. On the subject of caveats what is a good cost effective color calibration program or tool to ensure what I am seeing is as accurate as possible. Should I be concerned about MiniDisplay ports or Thunderbolt or USB-C? The options available now are just dizzying in their wide range of pros and cons.

    Anyway, thank you for your time and suggestions. I look forward to getting your feedback. 


  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    That's quite the wall of text you've got there...

    To answer some of your questions:

    4K displays: For content creation, they're great so long as you're not using any older software that has UI issues at such resolutions (3DSMax 2016 and older). For gaming, many higher budget games do support this resolution, but most older and many indie games do not (said games will look blurry since nvidia GPUs don't support integer scaling ).

    Ultrawide / 21:9 displays: For content creation, the main issue is limited options available at 3440x1440 right now (1440p ultrawide), and they don't give you as much screen space as a dual monitor setup would. There are many 1080p ultrawide monitors availbale, but you really don't want to go with such a low resolution these days for most 3D modeling / content creation apps. For gaming, it has the same issues the switch from 4:3 to 16:9 had; Many games still don't support it and so you'll probably be playing a lot with black borders on the sides or a stretched image.

    CPU: For 3D art, the main benefit of having more cores is rendering and texture baking. Some programs will have massive performance improvements from using more cores (ex: Blender cycles), while others wont (ex: UE4 lightmass baking). That said, you probably shouldn't get anything less then 6-8 cores these days unless under a tight budget. For gaming, Intel still has the edge over AMD due to their CPUs having better per-core performance. However, Intel will be much more expensive then AMD for CPUs with 6+ cores.

    GPU: The 1080Ti is the best overall card you can buy right now; It has almost identical performance to Titan XP but is cheaper and uses less power. Multi-GPU setups (SLI isn't needed) are only useful for a handful of GPU based renderers such as Octane. And yea, Quadro cards are only really worth the price in a very limited number of scenarios.

    RAM: G.Skill Ripjaw is still a good brand, and 64GB is a good amount to have. There are multiple 3D apps these days that can take advantage of a pool of ram that large, so don't worry about it being overkill. However ram prices are quite high atm so it'll probably cost yo about $500+ for that much.

    Storage: An M.2 NVMe drive is nice to have, but you generally wont notice the performance difference over a standard SSD due to various other bottlenecks modern PCs have that prevent them from really taking advantage of the extra speed.

    Cooling: Personally I stick to traditional air coolers for the CPU/GPU, and feel the only good reason to use water cooling is if you intend to have your PC rendering for days at a time or want to do heavy overclocking.

    Color calibration: I mention this in the first post (which I'd definitely recommend you read over), but the "X-Rite ColorMunki Smile" and "Datacolor S5X100 Spyder5EXPRESS" are probably what you want to look at.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    Oh, also, Intels next generation of mainstream CPUs (code name "Coffee Lake") should be getting released soon, and supposedly they will have 6 cores on both the mid-range and high end parts. Might be worth waiting for.

    Not the most reliable website, but just for reference: http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-cpu-benchmarks-leak/
  • Invisionary
    PolyHertz said:

    Color calibration: I mention this in the first post (which I'd definitely recommend you read over), but the "X-Rite ColorMunki Smile" and "Datacolor S5X100 Spyder5EXPRESS" are probably what you want to look at.
    Great thanks for the reply. Sorry for hitting you with 1,000,000 points of wall of text damage.. lol

    I did read the first post but it was from over a year ago so I guess I worded my question wrong. I should have said has anything changed since the OP. Sorry for the confusion. 

    That helped me to better collate the information I've got floating around in my head from all the reviews I've been looking at. I am still unsure of which products to get but at least you've confirmed a few things for me on which direction to go. I don't mind a few black borders on some games. I have seen that the select few games I really want to play but haven't been able to since they were released, do in fact support 21:9. The older games I'll probably download that 21:9 mod that I have heard about. Anyway thanks for your input.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    I did read the first post but it was from over a year ago so I guess I worded my question wrong. I should have said has anything changed since the OP. Sorry for the confusion.
    I actually keep the first post fairly up to date. It's missing info on Intels new X299 platform, and needs some more monitors added (4K/Ultrawide), but for the most part it should cover just about everything you need to know.
  • Invisionary
    PolyHertz said:
    Oh, also, Intels next generation of mainstream CPUs (code name "Coffee Lake") should be getting released soon, and supposedly they will have 6 cores on both the mid-range and high end parts. Might be worth waiting for.

    Not the most reliable website, but just for reference: http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-8700k-cpu-benchmarks-leak/
    Good to know. I can wait another few weeks to get a newer generation. At least this time I am finding out before spending money. Last time about 2 months after I purchased my system the next gen was released :P
  • JJobson98
    Hey guys,

    So I'm a student who does games technology, this means I work with software such as:
    Maya
    Substance Painter
    Unreal Engine
    Unity
    zBrush

    and so on. I own a Alienware which still runs well but I'm getting the slight bit of lag that is slowly driving me mad. It's not enough for me to just go out and get a new PC, but maybe time for me to get a upgrade. I have a GTX 960 graphics card in it. It's also recently gone in for repairs due to overheating, and they fixed it but say it still goes up to 90 degrees. 

    So I was wondering what would be the main thing I'd need to upgrade to stop this lag, for the programs I use, not for games or anything. Thanks
  • throttlekitty
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    throttlekitty Polycount Sponsor
    JJobson98 said:
    Hey guys,

    So I'm a student who does games technology, this means I work with software such as:
    Maya
    Substance Painter
    Unreal Engine
    Unity
    zBrush

    and so on. I own a Alienware which still runs well but I'm getting the slight bit of lag that is slowly driving me mad. It's not enough for me to just go out and get a new PC, but maybe time for me to get a upgrade. I have a GTX 960 graphics card in it. It's also recently gone in for repairs due to overheating, and they fixed it but say it still goes up to 90 degrees. 

    So I was wondering what would be the main thing I'd need to upgrade to stop this lag, for the programs I use, not for games or anything. Thanks
    Can't tell you specifically without hardware details and the when/what/how's of the lag you're getting. Maya and ZBrush benefit from a CPU, the others from a GPU and its RAM, they all benefit from more system RAM.

    A GTX960 is a pretty decent card, 90 degrees is pretty high if you're talking celsius. What scenarios are you hitting that temperature with?
  • JJobson98
    JJobson98 said:
    Hey guys,

    So I'm a student who does games technology, this means I work with software such as:
    Maya
    Substance Painter
    Unreal Engine
    Unity
    zBrush

    and so on. I own a Alienware which still runs well but I'm getting the slight bit of lag that is slowly driving me mad. It's not enough for me to just go out and get a new PC, but maybe time for me to get a upgrade. I have a GTX 960 graphics card in it. It's also recently gone in for repairs due to overheating, and they fixed it but say it still goes up to 90 degrees. 

    So I was wondering what would be the main thing I'd need to upgrade to stop this lag, for the programs I use, not for games or anything. Thanks
    Can't tell you specifically without hardware details and the when/what/how's of the lag you're getting. Maya and ZBrush benefit from a CPU, the others from a GPU and its RAM, they all benefit from more system RAM.

    A GTX960 is a pretty decent card, 90 degrees is pretty high if you're talking celsius. What scenarios are you hitting that temperature with?
    I can't currently get all the specs but will when I can, and the shop I took it took said it was getting to the due to there stress tests. They said it will overheat because it's a thin casing and they try to fit everything in this thin casing
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    Is it a mini tower? Is it the CPU or GPU that's getting up to 90 degrees? And is it being used in a tropical, desert, or otherwise very hot environment?
  • Skamberin
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    Skamberin polycounter lvl 7
    Just wanna say thanks for this thread PolyHertz.
    I'm doing a new build atm myself and have taken a lot of what you've suggested into account, both in regards to budget and performance.

  • JJobson98
    PolyHertz said:
    Is it a mini tower? Is it the CPU or GPU that's getting up to 90 degrees? And is it being used in a tropical, desert, or otherwise very hot environment?
    Okay so when it comes to actual hardware i'm not the most knowledgeable, but i googled mini tower and judging from them it does look similar. And the shop never specified what it was that was overheating he just said the whole thing was. And no, no hot environments.
  • Invisionary
    Ok since you mentioned the new Intel CPU I started down the Ryzen vs Intel path.. and dear god does my head hurt. I used to use AMD back around 10-17 years ago. Is AMD actually worth looking at again? Haha.. and I thought this was going to make my decision easier.. Now instead of simply choosing the best intel I can afford now I have to weigh the pros and cons of two completely different lines of products and all of their compatible hardware that goes with. >.<
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    @Skamberin Your welcome. Always nice to hear when the effort was useful to someone :)
    Good luck on your build!

    @JJobson98 Ok. First download a copy of HWMonitor and keep it running for a while to check what temps your CPU/GPU/Motherboard are getting (It shows temps for all components in your PC). You can grab that here. Its necessary to find out exactly what is overheating before its possible to make any guesses on what the cause and solutions are. Also, do you know the model of your PC? Being able to look that up would help answer some questions about what options you have in solving this.

    @Invisionary Yea AMD is back as a serious competitor to Intel as of earlier this year. That said, their main advantage is number of cores vs the price, while Intel remains the king of per-core performance. Right now, I'd say Ryzen CPUs are the better buy overall, but if the new Intel 6 core CPUs improve on the Kaby Lake IPC (which I'm sure they will) and don't go up in price relative to their equivalent Kaby Lake parts, then they'll be the better buy overall.
  • Invisionary
    PolyHertz said:
    @Invisionary Yea AMD is back as a serious competitor to Intel as of earlier this year. That said, their main advantage is number of cores vs the price, while Intel remains the king of per-core performance. Right now, I'd say Ryzen CPUs are the better buy overall, but if the new Intel 6 core CPUs improve on the Kaby Lake IPC (which I'm sure they will) and don't go up in price relative to their equivalent Kaby Lake parts, then they'll be the better buy overall.
    I'm not opposed to spending 1k on a CPU if it is the cat's ass, so to speak. There seems to be a lot of confusion and frustration with Intel about their i9 lineup. Feature limitations? Confusing branding? Dongle based Raid? I have never really liked Intel as a company but they have had the superior product for the last 10 years or so. The real question is which is the smarter buy if you plan to go with Nvidia video cards? I stopped using AMD around the same time that they bought ATI.

    PS. Much thanks for your post and replies. Your helpfulness is greatly appreciated.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD greentooth
    Beyond the $120 price point, there's currently no reason to go with Intel unless you are specifically looking for single core performance or playing games. 

    The AMD Ryzen 7 1700 is probably the best value CPU for game artists, assuming you can take advantage of 8 cores / 16 threads.


  • ZacD
  • Invisionary
    ZacD said:
    Beyond the $120 price point, there's currently no reason to go with Intel unless you are specifically looking for single core performance or playing games. 

    The AMD Ryzen 7 1700 is probably the best value CPU for game artists, assuming you can take advantage of 8 cores / 16 threads.


    I know that Photoshop benefits from a better single core score. I'm not sure which other programs are in the same boat. I use 3DCoat, Zbrush, Keyshot, Modo, Substance D/P, and have just started using Quixel but I'm not sure if it is locked to Photoshop's single core preference. Above all else this is a workstation. 1443p gaming on a curved panel is more of an added bonus.

    I'm also considering going above the enthusiast level and going for a Xeon processor. Nothing stunts my creativity like stuttering when trying to do a sculpt in zBrush/3Dcoat or painting on a wacom.

    Which brings me to another point. How does the CPU/GPU affect using a Cintiq 16 Pro (4k)?
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    I wouldn't recommend using Xeon CPUs on a workstation (assuming you're talking about the ones with significantly more cores then non-Xeons) due to them having extremely low base clock speeds. They're great for rendering since you can put two or more of them in a motherboard at the same time to stack cores (I've heard there are motherboards that support up to 8 Xeons, though I've only seen up to 4), but other then rendering most things will be GPU bound or have very limited multi-threading support. Here's a very rough/general overview of what parts most affect various 3D apps (in regards to GPU / CPU):

    3D-Coat = GPU bound.
    Keyshot = Scales based on number of CPU cores (the more cores/threads the better).
    Substance Designer = GPU bound.
    Substance Painter = GPU bound.
    Unreal Engine 4 = GPU bound viewport, while lightmass is CPU bound (max of 64 threads, but is difficult)
    Max/Maya/Modo/Blender = Viewports on all of them are primarily GPU bound.
    Quixel DDO = viewport is primarily GPU bound, but the underlying Photoshop app and its components are CPU bound.
    ZBrush = CPU bound. Only uses up to 4 cores / 8 threads efficiently, performance doesn't scale well past that.

    About the i9 : Yea, the new X299 platform is a mess, a lot of very confusing aspects for consumers. Seems there might also be issues with motherboards overheating (might just be limited to overclocking, not sure, haven't really looked into it yet). I'm going to wait until the dust settles a bit before making any recommendations regarding that platform.

  • Archanex
  • TheGabmeister
    ZacD said:
    Hmm.... This worries me. I was really hoping for Ryzen to perform well in UE4 lightmass baking compared to Intel CPUs. Planning to build a new PC, but this article got me thinking.

    Gonna wait for Threadripper performance for UE4 lightmass baking.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD greentooth
    ZacD said:
    Hmm.... This worries me. I was really hoping for Ryzen to perform well in UE4 lightmass baking compared to Intel CPUs. Planning to build a new PC, but this article got me thinking.

    Gonna wait for Threadripper performance for UE4 lightmass baking.
    From the Benchmarker themselves:

    We didn't mention Threadripper for a couple reasons. The main one is that at the time we wrote this, the launch date and other details were not officially announced. I think it was announced just this morning so when we wrote up this article over the last week there were no details available yet. I'm also not very confident that something like Unreal Engine is really the target market for Threadripper. This is why we didn't mention Purley or EPYC either. Threadripper is essentially just two Ryzen CPUs jammed into one and even if the scaling is perfect (which it most likely wont be), it still won't be able to compete against the Intel CPUs in Unreal. The Core i7 7820X is twice as fast as the Ryzen 7 1800X for heavily threaded tasks where Threadripper should be strongest, so AMD is going to have to do something unique to make Threadripper attractive for Unreal. I honestly don't expect too much more performance out of the 12-18 core Intel CPUs either, but that is going to depend entirely on what frequency they end up running at.

    Everything on Threadripper and the higher core count Intel CPUs is completely speculation at this point, however. Until we can actually run performance benchmarks, any guess at performance is well and trues just a guess. Especially as we are getting into this high of core count, how well threaded an application is makes a huge difference for performance so I have no problem admitting that even my own guesses could easily be way off from reality. We're just going to have to wait and see.

  • gauravcm
    Offline / Send Message
    gauravcm polycounter lvl 6
    I'm looking for monitor recommendations.  I'd like a 27-28" 4k UHD (3840 pixels × 2160) monitor.  The new monitor will be powered by an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti.  A new crop of monitors is coming out from Acer and ASUS that uses NVIDIA compatible G-Sync to reducing tearing and other refresh-related artifacts in games:  https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync

    Is it worth waiting for this technology to come down in cost?  Acer and ASUS' offerings are currently in the $700-1000 range:
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018MYTF4W/ref=psdc_1292115011_t3_B01AWGY9MG
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AWGY9MG/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=

    Do you think it's realistic to hope for more monitors in the $500 price range by the time American Holiday Shopping Season rolls around?
  • Chidambhar_Swaroop
    Guys, I am also looking for Monitor recommendation. I am debating on this two monitor.
    1 - BENQ 27 INCH QHD DESIGNER MONITOR PD2700Q
    Cost - 36,500 Rs or 568 Dollars (In my country it's costly, lol)
    Resolution - 2560 * 1440
    Screen - IPS , 100% sRGB, 10 bit
    Brightness - 350 cd
    Link - http://www.benq.com/product/monitor/pd2700q/features/

    2 - LG 27UD68P 27″ 4K UHD 3840×2160 IPS HEIGHT ADJUSTABLE LED MONITOR
    Cost - 33,000 Rs or 514 Dollars
    Resolution -  3840×2160
    Screen - IPS, 99% sRGB, Free Sync, 60 HZ
    Link - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824025374

    Please note that I will be buying gtx 1080 ti, so no use of having free sync feature in the second monitor..

    Tnx @PolyHertz


  • Invisionary
    PolyHertz said:
    I wouldn't recommend using Xeon CPUs on a workstation (assuming you're talking about the ones with significantly more cores then non-Xeons) due to them having extremely low base clock speeds. They're great for rendering since you can put two or more of them in a motherboard at the same time to stack cores (I've heard there are motherboards that support up to 8 Xeons, though I've only seen up to 4), but other then rendering most things will be GPU bound or have very limited multi-threading support. Here's a very rough/general overview of what parts most affect various 3D apps (in regards to GPU / CPU):

    3D-Coat = GPU bound.
    Keyshot = Scales based on number of CPU cores (the more cores/threads the better).
    Substance Designer = GPU bound.
    Substance Painter = GPU bound.
    Unreal Engine 4 = GPU bound viewport, while lightmass is CPU bound (max of 64 threads, but is difficult)
    Max/Maya/Modo/Blender = Viewports on all of them are primarily GPU bound.
    Quixel DDO = viewport is primarily GPU bound, but the underlying Photoshop app and its components are CPU bound.
    ZBrush = CPU bound. Only uses up to 4 cores / 8 threads efficiently, performance doesn't scale well past that.

    About the i9 : Yea, the new X299 platform is a mess, a lot of very confusing aspects for consumers. Seems there might also be issues with motherboards overheating (might just be limited to overclocking, not sure, haven't really looked into it yet). I'm going to wait until the dust settles a bit before making any recommendations regarding that platform.

    Great answer this is extremely helpful. :)

    I've seen a few videos detailing out buying older (sub $100) Xeons and using a multi CPU capable board and the render times are astonishingly fast. In this one video where the guy used basically a set of 59$ Xeons (32 cores I believe) and a 980Ti and got a 5k+ score in Cinebench. It looks as if the majority of software I will be using is GPU bound. This begs to question, why not use 2 video cards in one of the various configs (Multi-Adapter) or SLI mode? Wouldn't all of the GPU bound programs benefit from this? Also, it seems that if Photoshop is the only single threaded application. Just wondering why using a multiple Xeon + 1080Ti is not a recommended setup for artists? Is it because of Photoshop being primarily based on a single core's top frequency?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD greentooth
    Photoshop isn't most artists primary texturing app anymore, I don't think anyone is super concerned with it's performance.

    Most programs don't support SLI and even Nvdia themselves are supporting it less and less.
  • PolyHertz
    Offline / Send Message
    PolyHertz polycounter lvl 11
    @Invisionary

    Almost all GPU bound apps are limited to using a single GPU, or use multi-GPU setups very inefficiently. Its kind of a waste of money unless you intend to do GPU rendering.

    Saying viewports in 3D apps are GPU bound is really only talking about the surface layer though, that is to say; Moving around in the viewport and redrawing geometry/shaders/etc. may be GPU bound, but the tools you use to actually model are going to be primarily CPU bound. Some of those tools will support multithreading, others wont. Thanks to turboboost tech (which allows CPU cores to automatically run faster in exchange for shutting down ones that aren't getting much use), tasks that aren't multi-threaded can still run well on CPUs with a lot of cores. However, tasks that do use multiple threads, but only a small number, wont be able to really get the full benefits of this technology, and will work best with just a few very fast cores. Thanks to Intel keeping the mainstream at 4 cores for about ten years now, this kind of thing is rather common (particularly in games).

    But, that's just my take. Some people will tell you per-thread performance is not that important, and you should always go for more cores if you can. Rendering can take a very long time without a lot of cores. Just keep in mind that if you do go that route you'll probably see a much wider and more variable range in performance depending on the tools you use.

    Since you mentioned Modo previously, I'll leave some links too:
    http://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/125936
    http://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/74058
    http://community.foundry.com/discuss/topic/112902/

    @Chidambhar_Swaroop

    Both are good screens, pick whichever brand you're most comfortable with. Also keep in mind that not all apps will scale well to 4K (Max 2016 and older).
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