Epic's "Paragon"

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I don't even know what this is, but Im sharing. Anyone have any idea?

https://www.epicgames.com/paragon/list

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  • Hito
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    Hito greentooth
    maybe this is their "Unannounced" project
  • Fuiosg
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    Fuiosg polycounter lvl 5
    Some sort of F2P shooter? Beta looks to be starting soon, surprised they kept it under wraps all this time.
  • Hito
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    Hito greentooth
    Dunno, been seeing their job posts for the last few months. Polygon article says it's coming next year. 
  • kernersvillan
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    kernersvillan polycounter lvl 9
    Coming to PC in early 2016 is all we can say atm  ;p
  • Hito
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    Hito greentooth
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    Looks cool, so far.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 8
    If I had to guess, I would say it is another moba/fps hybrid
  • Quotidian
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    Quotidian vertex
    seems like a really weird move to develop two competing shooters at the same time (assuming this is a shooter)
  • weee
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    weee polycounter lvl 3
    whatever they do, I look forward
  • StephenVyas
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    StephenVyas polycounter lvl 12
    On LInkedin, Epic just shared a Teaser Trailer for their new Hero - 'Steel'   
  • JordanW
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    JordanW sublime tool
    Here's a link to the Steel video, really excited to be sharing this. 
  • erroldynamic
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    erroldynamic polycounter lvl 12
    I'm digging these "reveal" vids. Nice looking art so far.
  • beefaroni
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    beefaroni interpolator
    Nothing too much to say other than what they're showing looks great.

    I'm really interested to see some gameplay though! Similar to how Project Bluestreak / Lawbreakers was before they showed off gameplay. 
  • DoctorClot
    Speculation

    Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?

    Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
  • Stinkfoot
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    Stinkfoot polycounter lvl 6
    Moba shooter is my guess, joining overwatch, gigantic, that game from the bordelands makers etc.
  • beefaroni
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    beefaroni interpolator
    I'm going with card based arena shooter (maybe MOBA, maybe not). They sent out cards with the logo for a teaser about a month ago so I assume it has something to do with that. 
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    If it's another MOBA / Shooter hybrid, I'll be quite disappointed.
  • bounchfx
    crazy how these trends just kind of take off all at once. we have multiple arena shooter/moba hybrid games all within the past year, as well as a bunch of 'card based' ones.
  • Mstankow
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    Mstankow polycounter lvl 7
    The hardsurface work looks like generic zbrush hardsurface you see all over.
  • heyeye
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    heyeye polycounter lvl 4
    Anytime a studio(especially Epic) makes a game using their own engine, awesome technical boundaries get pushed and shared. Regardless if this will be a good game, it's exciting to know that further UE4 development will be gained, and shared.
  • Quotidian
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    Quotidian vertex
    The characters look great, but this is probably the most misguided teaser/promotion campaign I can remember seeing, Just the amount of down votes on the first video is telling. People don't like seeing this kind of stuff without knowing the context of what type of game it is
  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 5
    Stinkfoot said:
    Moba shooter is my guess, joining overwatch, gigantic, that game from the bordelands makers etc.
    Overwatch is no moba shooter, its a usual (class based) FPS, there are no moba elements in it.
    Gigantic on the other hand is a moba shooter. It features many of the classical moba elements.

    But yes it seems to be one of the many class based FPS which are currently in development for some reason, not that I dislike it. Looks nice tho, kinda funny that they are concurring with Cliff B.

    What I find sad is that people all follow the same simple sheme of 3-4 skills + ultimate, which has its origin in warcraft 3. Back then it was expected to maange an army, base building and probably multiple times 3-4 skills. If it is supposed to be exeptional then we need to stop copying without thinking how the status quo resolved in the first place. Add some real depth. 1-4 skills are easy to do and convenient I know, but depth is what keeps players engaged. This is double true for such low class amounts. Dota has 100 heroes with 4-5 skills. If you have 10 with the same or less depth you can hardly compete for my time. The pick 10 system in COD is infinitely more deep if you compare FPS to FPS.

    heyeye said:
    Anytime a studio(especially Epic) makes a game using their own engine, awesome technical boundaries get pushed and shared. Regardless if this will be a good game, it's exciting to know that further UE4 development will be gained, and shared.
    So true. Haven't seen anything even close to Epics level of optimization. Unreal 3 looked like the future and ran on my 3 year old PC on ultra, it was like magic. And the game had a scope that is unheard of, it had everything. (aside of nice color grading) Not to talk about Gears of War on last gen, their performance to visuals ratio is insane.

  • RobeOmega
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    RobeOmega polycounter lvl 5
    Announce trailer:

  • Hristo Rusanov
    Paragon from Epic Games - Gameplay First Look



  • Quotidian
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    Quotidian vertex
    Insanely pretty! Was hoping it was going to be played from a  first person perspective and a bit more interesting twist on the typical dota map lane set up (like more overpasses, vertical combat etc) but maybe there will be more maps.
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    The game, gameplays, art look totally awesome. But I really don't understand why many games these days go for that highly contrasted lighting that generates a hell lot of dark/black areas on environments, characters, etc. I wish the visual clarity was better to let us see more of this beautiful game.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    The art is absolutely stunning. I love the environments,

    The game itself looks dull as hell thus far though, super generic. Hopefully there's a lot more to see that hasn't been shown yet, but thus far it just looks like yet another MOBA.
  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 5
    Wow, I was really surprised that they went with a moba genre, really expected a team based FPS
    Holy shit the visuals.
    Still im sceptical about the moba core gameplay thing with lane pushing, I hope the map is not as implied by the trailer, like one narrow hallway but looking forward to seeing what they will make of the whole moba concept.
  • Ged
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    Ged polycounter lvl 10
    The game, gameplays, art look totally awesome. But I really don't understand why many games these days go for that highly contrasted lighting that generates a hell lot of dark/black areas on environments, characters, etc. I wish the visual clarity was better to let us see more of this beautiful game.
    Im guessing its because things look more dramatic with a low angle directional light (sunset/sunrise) and you get nice big specular/reflections playing across surfaces so your materials look pretty. The game does look quite attractive, I am curious to see how they make the gameplay really fun.
  • Hito
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    Hito greentooth
    live stream today at 2PM EST @ www.twitch.tv/UnrealEngine

    "Rendering and the Characters of Paragon
     
    Discover the technology and techniques behind creating the characters for Paragon, Epic’s new game for PC and PlayStation 4, this Thursday via Twitch. Senior Graphics Programmer Brian Karis and Lead Artist Jordan Walker are presenting the new rendering features coming in 4.11 and how you can use them to their full potential. "
  • Kraftwerk
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    Kraftwerk polycounter lvl 12
    Stunning art but aside from Gigantic, im quite tired of anything involving the four letters M O B A...
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 3
    Hito said:
    live stream today at 2PM EST @ www.twitch.tv/UnrealEngine

    "Rendering and the Characters of Paragon
     
    Discover the technology and techniques behind creating the characters for Paragon, Epic’s new game for PC and PlayStation 4, this Thursday via Twitch. Senior Graphics Programmer Brian Karis and Lead Artist Jordan Walker are presenting the new rendering features coming in 4.11 and how you can use them to their full potential. "
    So, uh, do any of said characters have hair?
  • Hito
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    Hito greentooth
    a few didn't. the stream was mostly on hair and eyeballs... and a little bit of cloth. shading/rendering. not physics sim.

  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 5
    Kraftwerk said:
    Stunning art but aside from Gigantic, im quite tired of anything involving the four letters M O B A...
    Which mobas do you have mastered or burned out so far, that you are tired of them already ? : P
  • Kraftwerk
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    Kraftwerk polycounter lvl 12
    Shrike said:
    Kraftwerk said:
    Stunning art but aside from Gigantic, im quite tired of anything involving the four letters M O B A...
    Which mobas do you have mastered or burned out so far, that you are tired of them already ? : P
    Tried MANY mastered none, because MOBA communities are usually god awful and turn me away pretty fast, SMITE is pretty decent however and played it for a while and the beta of Gigantic is a lot fun, but like seriously why does EVERY company need its own MOBA game these days ?  
  • MMKH
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    MMKH polycounter lvl 5
    Speculation

    Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?

    Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
    I would love to see a remake of OMF: 2097 too. I imagine it could be done in a low-poly style paying homage to the original, maybe the robots could have a few more details or modifications added, using PBR lighting on the metals.
    Anyways, Paragon looks great, seems the MOBA genre is really trending, especially when combined with shooting games. Overwatch is another example of a team-based 3rd-person shooter with MOBA elements.
  • Quotidian
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    Quotidian vertex
    Their character tech is super impressive. Their eye shader seems like a much better solution than the one sphere inside of the other solution I see a lot 
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    MMKH said:
    Speculation

    Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?

    Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
    I would love to see a remake of OMF: 2097 too. I imagine it could be done in a low-poly style paying homage to the original, maybe the robots could have a few more details or modifications added, using PBR lighting on the metals.
    Anyways, Paragon looks great, seems the MOBA genre is really trending, especially when combined with shooting games. Overwatch is another example of a team-based 3rd-person shooter with MOBA elements.
    Trouble is there are now a lot of them. Paragon will be entering a very crowded market when it does arrive, and judging by the visuals the system specs will be high. I feel Epic may have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
  • Ged
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    Ged polycounter lvl 10
    There are a surprising amount of these moba/fps games in production right?

    paragon
    overwatch
    gigantic
    battleborn

    all seem to be trying to nail the same sort of thing(bringing in mob elements) and none of them are even out yet. It should be an interesting time for the genre. Im not into mobas at all but maybe some crossover would work well.
  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 5
    Lawbreakers (Cliff B.)
    Paladins (from Smite creators)
    Battlecry (Cancelled ?)

    Looking at those, we have 3 pure FPS - Overwatch, Lawbreakers, Battlecry which are class based FPS with no Moba elements
    Then we have Gigantic with moba elements but a clearly different core game without lanes, Battleborn and Paladins going
    more towards the Smite route, so we had about 3 those, which is not exactly many. 4 if Paragon is of similar fashion.

    All in all, those games are either not moba like at all, or have little of original moba values in them. Lane pushing, gold and farm core gameplay, ingame progression, items, RTS style strategy etc etc, none of these games play remotely similar to Dota or League.

    If we compare that per example to survival games, where there is a clear exhaustion with very similar gameplay or many genres on mobile, then there is a lot of air upwards here for moba games and class based FPS with moba elements. What people feel is a exhaustion on the strong presence of moba games, because they have huge impact as they have insane playerbases resulting from the insane replayability,
    content and depth these have (Dota & League).
  • Quotidian
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    Quotidian vertex
    ambershee said:
     and judging by the visuals the system specs will be high. I feel Epic may have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
    according to what they said on the twitch stream, it needs to run well on the consoles. Considering how relatively underpowered the consoles are compared to PCs - and also how well UT already runs - I have a feeling it will be well within the range of most mid range gaming PCs

    Also, I agree with what Shrike posted. A lot of people seem to think that the dota-like genre (I hate the term "MOBA") is entirely about different, unique heroes with abilities on cooldown. That's why Overwatch gets lumped in there. But actually Overwatch has much more in common with Team Fortress than dota or LOL. The genre is much more about its RTS roots - about adjusting your strategy through item progression and skill builds, scouting and pressuring parts of the map in different ways and economy (which is completely removed in HOTS, and partially why HOTS seems so dull to me)

    I really hope Paragon is very close to dota in terms of complexity, but from the obviously different perspective and with much more direct control
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 11
    See also:
    Soldier Front 2 (Hero Mode), Super Monday Night Combat (call's itself a MOBA, but isn't quite)
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    Shrike said:
    Lawbreakers (Cliff B.)
    Paladins (from Smite creators)
    Battlecry (Cancelled ?)

    Looking at those, we have 3 pure FPS - Overwatch, Lawbreakers, Battlecry which are class based FPS with no Moba elements
    Then we have Gigantic with moba elements but a clearly different core game without lanes, Battleborn and Paladins going
    more towards the Smite route, so we had about 3 those, which is not exactly many. 4 if Paragon is of similar fashion.

    All in all, those games are either not moba like at all, or have little of original moba values in them. Lane pushing, gold and farm core gameplay, ingame progression, items, RTS style strategy etc etc, none of these games play remotely similar to Dota or League.

    If we compare that per example to survival games, where there is a clear exhaustion with very similar gameplay or many genres on mobile, then there is a lot of air upwards here for moba games and class based FPS with moba elements. What people feel is a exhaustion on the strong presence of moba games, because they have huge impact as they have insane playerbases resulting from the insane replayability,
    content and depth these have (Dota & League).
    Please, don't put Overwatch in there as pure FPS, it has more in common with League of Legends than FPS games.
    But the art direction is freaking sick.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 3
    I mean... if Overwatch isn't an FPS then TF2 isn't either...
  • Deathstick
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    Deathstick polycounter lvl 4
    You know you're in for a treat whenever a developer puts in "Presents," in the opening, really gives off a feeling that the studio is proud of and stands by what they're working on.

    Reminds me of when "EA Proudly Presents A DICE Production" in their trailer for Battlefield 2142, which turned out to be one of the most badass battlefields ever made.
  • Shrike
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    Shrike polycounter lvl 5
    Please, don't put Overwatch in there as pure FPS, it has more in common with League of Legends than FPS games.
    But the art direction is freaking sick.
    But that's how it needs to be done.
    There are hardly any similarities to classical mobas like Dota or League, just because there are Classes / Heroes with abilities does that not make it similar. There is no ingame progression, items, gold, lane pushing, towers, structures, throne etc etc. Overwatch is a FPS, same as Team fortress. Overwatch is has btw basically the same core gameplay as Team fortress. Having classes does not make a game moba like, Battlefield & CoD has classes too, the difference is mainly the setting. Aesthetically it is far closer to league of legends per example than other FPS that is true. Classes with abilities are a very commonly used gameplay element throughout all genres. Usually Id say Overwatch is a class based FPS but considering that more FPS have classes than not, it really is obsolete mentioning it.

    Wikipedia & official TF2 statement also seconds that.
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    I would use the term "pure First-Person Shooter" if the game would take both intellect and dexterity. Team Fortress 2 in many cases did take some dexterity to a certain degree. In the case of Overwatch, on the other hand, it's arguable. I haven't played the game myself, but based on all the gameplay videos that I've seen, the dexterity required in the game is minimal. So, sure... it does use the first person perspective, but would I classify it as a FPS, yes, but a pure FPS, no.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 3
    So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
  • Neox
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    Neox greentooth
    So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
    it isn't quake 3 thats what he means...
  • Tidal Blast
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    Tidal Blast polycounter lvl 3
    So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
    And how am I shitting on the game design of that game when I'm saying it doesn't require much dexterity? Would I be shitting on Chess if I say it doesn't require much dexterity? No, it's just how it is.
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