I'm going with card based arena shooter (maybe MOBA, maybe not). They sent out cards with the logo for a teaser about a month ago so I assume it has something to do with that.
crazy how these trends just kind of take off all at once. we have multiple arena shooter/moba hybrid games all within the past year, as well as a bunch of 'card based' ones.
Anytime a studio(especially Epic) makes a game using their own engine, awesome technical boundaries get pushed and shared. Regardless if this will be a good game, it's exciting to know that further UE4 development will be gained, and shared.
The characters look great, but this is probably the most misguided teaser/promotion campaign I can remember seeing, Just the amount of down votes on the first video is telling. People don't like seeing this kind of stuff without knowing the context of what type of game it is
Moba shooter is my guess, joining overwatch, gigantic, that game from the bordelands makers etc.
Overwatch is no moba shooter, its a usual (class based) FPS, there are no moba elements in it. Gigantic on the other hand is a moba shooter. It features many of the classical moba elements.
But yes it seems to be one of the many class based FPS which are currently in development for some reason, not that I dislike it. Looks nice tho, kinda funny that they are concurring with Cliff B.
What I find sad is that people all follow the same simple sheme of 3-4 skills + ultimate, which has its origin in warcraft 3. Back then it was expected to maange an army, base building and probably multiple times 3-4 skills. If it is supposed to be exeptional then we need to stop copying without thinking how the status quo resolved in the first place. Add some real depth. 1-4 skills are easy to do and convenient I know, but depth is what keeps players engaged. This is double true for such low class amounts. Dota has 100 heroes with 4-5 skills. If you have 10 with the same or less depth you can hardly compete for my time. The pick 10 system in COD is infinitely more deep if you compare FPS to FPS.
Anytime a studio(especially Epic) makes a game
using their own engine, awesome technical boundaries get pushed and
shared. Regardless if this will be a good game, it's exciting to know
that further UE4 development will be gained, and shared.
So true. Haven't seen anything even close to Epics level of optimization. Unreal 3 looked like the future and ran on my 3 year old PC on ultra, it was like magic. And the game had a scope that is unheard of, it had everything. (aside of nice color grading) Not to talk about Gears of War on last gen, their performance to visuals ratio is insane.
Insanely pretty! Was hoping it was going to be played from a first person perspective and a bit more interesting twist on the typical dota map lane set up (like more overpasses, vertical combat etc) but maybe there will be more maps.
The art is absolutely stunning. I love the environments,
The game itself looks dull as hell thus far though, super generic. Hopefully there's a lot more to see that hasn't been shown yet, but thus far it just looks like yet another MOBA.
Wow, I was really surprised that they went with a moba genre, really expected a team based FPS Holy shit the visuals. Still im sceptical about the moba core gameplay thing with lane pushing, I hope the map is not as implied by the trailer, like one narrow hallway but looking forward to seeing what they will make of the whole moba concept.
The game, gameplays, art look totally awesome. But I really don't understand why many games these days go for that highly contrasted lighting that generates a hell lot of dark/black areas on environments, characters, etc. I wish the visual clarity was better to let us see more of this beautiful game.
Im guessing its because things look more dramatic with a low angle directional light (sunset/sunrise) and you get nice big specular/reflections playing across surfaces so your materials look pretty. The game does look quite attractive, I am curious to see how they make the gameplay really fun.
live stream today at 2PM EST @ www.twitch.tv/UnrealEngine
"Rendering and the Characters of Paragon
Discover the technology and techniques behind creating the characters for Paragon, Epic’s new game for PC and PlayStation 4, this Thursday via Twitch. Senior Graphics Programmer Brian Karis and Lead Artist Jordan Walker are presenting the new rendering features coming in 4.11 and how you can use them to their full potential. "
live stream today at 2PM EST @ www.twitch.tv/UnrealEngine
"Rendering and the Characters of Paragon
Discover the technology and techniques behind creating the characters for Paragon, Epic’s new game for PC and PlayStation 4, this Thursday via Twitch. Senior Graphics Programmer Brian Karis and Lead Artist Jordan Walker are presenting the new rendering features coming in 4.11 and how you can use them to their full potential. "
Stunning art but aside from Gigantic, im quite tired of anything involving the four letters M O B A...
Which mobas do you have mastered or burned out so far, that you are tired of them already ? : P
Tried MANY mastered none, because MOBA communities are usually god awful and turn me away pretty fast, SMITE is pretty decent however and played it for a while and the beta of Gigantic is a lot fun, but like seriously why does EVERY company need its own MOBA game these days ?
Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?
Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
I would love to see a remake of OMF: 2097 too. I imagine it could be done in a low-poly style paying homage to the original, maybe the robots could have a few more details or modifications added, using PBR lighting on the metals. Anyways, Paragon looks great, seems the MOBA genre is really trending, especially when combined with shooting games. Overwatch is another example of a team-based 3rd-person shooter with MOBA elements.
Their character tech is super impressive. Their eye shader seems like a much better solution than the one sphere inside of the other solution I see a lot
Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?
Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
I would love to see a remake of OMF: 2097 too. I imagine it could be done in a low-poly style paying homage to the original, maybe the robots could have a few more details or modifications added, using PBR lighting on the metals. Anyways, Paragon looks great, seems the MOBA genre is really trending, especially when combined with shooting games. Overwatch is another example of a team-based 3rd-person shooter with MOBA elements.
Trouble is there are now a lot of them. Paragon will be entering a very crowded market when it does arrive, and judging by the visuals the system specs will be high. I feel Epic may have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
There are a surprising amount of these moba/fps games in production right?
paragon overwatch gigantic battleborn
all seem to be trying to nail the same sort of thing(bringing in mob elements) and none of them are even out yet. It should be an interesting time for the genre. Im not into mobas at all but maybe some crossover would work well.
Lawbreakers (Cliff B.) Paladins (from Smite creators) Battlecry (Cancelled ?)
Looking at those, we have 3 pure FPS - Overwatch, Lawbreakers, Battlecry which are class based FPS with no Moba elements Then we have Gigantic with moba elements but a clearly different core game without lanes, Battleborn and Paladins going more towards the Smite route, so we had about 3 those, which is not exactly many. 4 if Paragon is of similar fashion.
All in all, those games are either not moba like at all, or have little of original moba values in them. Lane pushing, gold and farm core gameplay, ingame progression, items, RTS style strategy etc etc, none of these games play remotely similar to Dota or League.
If we compare that per example to survival games, where there is a clear exhaustion with very similar gameplay or many genres on mobile, then there is a lot of air upwards here for moba games and class based FPS with moba elements. What people feel is a exhaustion on the strong presence of moba games, because they have huge impact as they have insane playerbases resulting from the insane replayability, content and depth these have (Dota & League).
and judging by the visuals the system specs will be high. I feel Epic may have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
according to what they said on the twitch stream, it needs to run well on the consoles. Considering how relatively underpowered the consoles are compared to PCs - and also how well UT already runs - I have a feeling it will be well within the range of most mid range gaming PCs
Also, I agree with what Shrike posted. A lot of people seem to think that the dota-like genre (I hate the term "MOBA") is entirely about different, unique heroes with abilities on cooldown. That's why Overwatch gets lumped in there. But actually Overwatch has much more in common with Team Fortress than dota or LOL. The genre is much more about its RTS roots - about adjusting your strategy through item progression and skill builds, scouting and pressuring parts of the map in different ways and economy (which is completely removed in HOTS, and partially why HOTS seems so dull to me)
I really hope Paragon is very close to dota in terms of complexity, but from the obviously different perspective and with much more direct control
You know you're in for a treat whenever a developer puts in "Presents," in the opening, really gives off a feeling that the studio is proud of and stands by what they're working on.
Reminds me of when "EA Proudly Presents A DICE Production" in their trailer for Battlefield 2142, which turned out to be one of the most badass battlefields ever made.
Please, don't put Overwatch in there as pure FPS, it has more in common with League of Legends than FPS games. But the art direction is freaking sick.
But that's how it needs to be done. There are hardly any similarities to classical mobas like Dota or League, just because there are Classes / Heroes with abilities does that not make it similar. There is no ingame progression, items, gold, lane pushing, towers, structures, throne etc etc. Overwatch is a FPS, same as Team fortress. Overwatch is has btw basically the same core gameplay as Team fortress. Having classes does not make a game moba like, Battlefield & CoD has classes too, the difference is mainly the setting. Aesthetically it is far closer to league of legends per example than other FPS that is true. Classes with abilities are a very commonly used gameplay element throughout all genres. Usually Id say Overwatch is a class based FPS but considering that more FPS have classes than not, it really is obsolete mentioning it.
Wikipedia & official TF2 statement also seconds that.
So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
Lawbreakers (Cliff B.) Paladins (from Smite creators) Battlecry (Cancelled ?)
Looking at those, we have 3 pure FPS - Overwatch, Lawbreakers, Battlecry which are class based FPS with no Moba elements Then we have Gigantic with moba elements but a clearly different core game without lanes, Battleborn and Paladins going more towards the Smite route, so we had about 3 those, which is not exactly many. 4 if Paragon is of similar fashion.
Im not sure what you mean by pure fps I was just pointing out how its interesting that we are getting a bit of crossover from mobas into the fps genre. If I have to think about which character out of the 20+ I play in order to counter someone elses skills then its a bit like a moba in my opinion (overwatch has this as a key mechanic as far as I know).
So you haven't actually played the game but you're willing to shit all over it in GD because it looks like it doesn't take skill? I haven't played it either but that's just being silly.
And how am I shitting on the game design of that game when I'm saying it doesn't require much dexterity? Would I be shitting on Chess if I say it doesn't require much dexterity? No, it's just how it is.
there are characters that don't need much dexterity, thats true and I prefer to play them, as I suck with my aim. There are others, like tracer, who are very quick and don't have much health and can be super annoying in the hands of the right player. or just take pharah, with the rocketlauncher I suck, but someone who played quake will definitely have a big advantage playing her. That it has more in common with LoL is just plain wrong, the only bigger difference to a "pure fps" is, that you pick your weapons by chosing a character and that you can and should switch your loadout on respawn. You do not collect weapons, but on many shooters you got loadouts/classes/characters. I imagine Paragon to be much more Mobalike from what we know with the lanes, minions and all. Overwatch is just an objective and teambased shooter, not a deathmatch style one.
Different characters have different skill ceilings in Overwatch, and you could argue that different weapons in Quake worked the same way. If you want to play a character that requires a lot of skill, you are free to do so.
FPS is FPS. You shoot people in first person. There is no pure FPS or unpure FPS. There are Arena FPS with little other focus than gunplay however. TF2 took a objective heavy approach after shooters such as Wolfenstein and having different classes to fill various roles. TF2 took a approach where classes are strongly differenciated requiring an abstracted setting and a strong rock paper scissors design. Overwatch is pretty much the same. The other FPS often do not rely as much on objectives but are essentially the same core game too, just with less pronounced class differences, mainly due to setting constraints such as real life. Still Sniper rifles, shotguns, smgs, dmrs , vehicles and equipment fill the same roles that abilities in overwatch do per example. Enemy picks helicopter, you go anti air, drafting exists everywhere and is usually adaptive in matches.
Paragon shows their moba influence very clearly in the trailer, there are lanes, creeps and lane pushing, key structures such as towers that need to be destroyed to make the throne vulnerable, which is a very specific metagame that draws little real life influence and has to be attributed to the unique moba core game as a result.
About the skill ceiling thing, expect Blizzard to make the game rather casual friendly with a compressed skillgap, which seems to be their direction in the last time oddly enough. Still there are heroes requiring higher mechanical skill than others, by having harder shooting mechanics (Sniper, Bow, Projectiles) that the FPS players with better aim can leverage however. Never forget that difficulty is always measured on your opponent and humans will always give you a high challenge no matter how simple the game.
I don't understand how you can say that classes are a bad concept for a multiplayer game because people do as they please (whats that even supposed to mean ?) and break the game flow ? (By doing what the game intends them to ? huh ?) Forcing the more dedicated players to start working ? (??) and killing themselves ? You mean sacrificing themselves for the team I suppose ? This all sounds very incorrect im afraid.
How much impact a player can have is limited by the skill cap of the game and the depth of the dynamics offered, not the difficulty. Also Implying classes make a game less challenging or competitive is just plain wrong. Thats like saying different weapons break the game flow, its just silly. Classes are just an extension of the player, just like a weapon.
Compressing the skill cap does not mean mechanics are dumbed down (althoug that often happens), but that there are fewer ways to differenciate yourself from other players, which I personally am no fan of, still it is in favor of the average and majority of players which I can understand. The recent craze of making games simpler is generally dumb still, as players always seek games with high skill ceiling and depth, which in return gives replayability and which in return keeps the game alive and brings sales.
Likely overwatch is not the right game for the super dedicated player, but for the average one. In Mobas, HOTS / Strife is great if you want some casual fun, League is the middle ground where casual and cores are satisfied, and Dota 2 or HoN is for the dedicated players that like to make their own experience and have all doors open for them with very high skill cap. Different games for different players. If you like challenging games where you as player can have as much impact as your skill allows, give Dota a shot, there is pretty much nothing that comes close to it in that regard.
Replies
I'm really interested to see some gameplay though! Similar to how Project Bluestreak / Lawbreakers was before they showed off gameplay.
Maybe it is a brawler or beat-em up similar to Street Fighter or Tekken. But with a touch of EPIC SAUCE?
Total Speculation from me. That said I Would kill for a modern remake of One Must Fall: 2097
Gigantic on the other hand is a moba shooter. It features many of the classical moba elements.
But yes it seems to be one of the many class based FPS which are currently in development for some reason, not that I dislike it. Looks nice tho, kinda funny that they are concurring with Cliff B.
What I find sad is that people all follow the same simple sheme of 3-4 skills + ultimate, which has its origin in warcraft 3. Back then it was expected to maange an army, base building and probably multiple times 3-4 skills. If it is supposed to be exeptional then we need to stop copying without thinking how the status quo resolved in the first place. Add some real depth. 1-4 skills are easy to do and convenient I know, but depth is what keeps players engaged. This is double true for such low class amounts. Dota has 100 heroes with 4-5 skills. If you have 10 with the same or less depth you can hardly compete for my time. The pick 10 system in COD is infinitely more deep if you compare FPS to FPS.
So true. Haven't seen anything even close to Epics level of optimization. Unreal 3 looked like the future and ran on my 3 year old PC on ultra, it was like magic. And the game had a scope that is unheard of, it had everything. (aside of nice color grading) Not to talk about Gears of War on last gen, their performance to visuals ratio is insane.
The game itself looks dull as hell thus far though, super generic. Hopefully there's a lot more to see that hasn't been shown yet, but thus far it just looks like yet another MOBA.
Holy shit the visuals.
Still im sceptical about the moba core gameplay thing with lane pushing, I hope the map is not as implied by the trailer, like one narrow hallway but looking forward to seeing what they will make of the whole moba concept.
Anyways, Paragon looks great, seems the MOBA genre is really trending, especially when combined with shooting games. Overwatch is another example of a team-based 3rd-person shooter with MOBA elements.
paragon
overwatch
gigantic
battleborn
all seem to be trying to nail the same sort of thing(bringing in mob elements) and none of them are even out yet. It should be an interesting time for the genre. Im not into mobas at all but maybe some crossover would work well.
Paladins (from Smite creators)
Battlecry (Cancelled ?)
Looking at those, we have 3 pure FPS - Overwatch, Lawbreakers, Battlecry which are class based FPS with no Moba elements
Then we have Gigantic with moba elements but a clearly different core game without lanes, Battleborn and Paladins going
more towards the Smite route, so we had about 3 those, which is not exactly many. 4 if Paragon is of similar fashion.
All in all, those games are either not moba like at all, or have little of original moba values in them. Lane pushing, gold and farm core gameplay, ingame progression, items, RTS style strategy etc etc, none of these games play remotely similar to Dota or League.
If we compare that per example to survival games, where there is a clear exhaustion with very similar gameplay or many genres on mobile, then there is a lot of air upwards here for moba games and class based FPS with moba elements. What people feel is a exhaustion on the strong presence of moba games, because they have huge impact as they have insane playerbases resulting from the insane replayability,
content and depth these have (Dota & League).
Also, I agree with what Shrike posted. A lot of people seem to think that the dota-like genre (I hate the term "MOBA") is entirely about different, unique heroes with abilities on cooldown. That's why Overwatch gets lumped in there. But actually Overwatch has much more in common with Team Fortress than dota or LOL. The genre is much more about its RTS roots - about adjusting your strategy through item progression and skill builds, scouting and pressuring parts of the map in different ways and economy (which is completely removed in HOTS, and partially why HOTS seems so dull to me)
I really hope Paragon is very close to dota in terms of complexity, but from the obviously different perspective and with much more direct control
Soldier Front 2 (Hero Mode), Super Monday Night Combat (call's itself a MOBA, but isn't quite)
Reminds me of when "EA Proudly Presents A DICE Production" in their trailer for Battlefield 2142, which turned out to be one of the most badass battlefields ever made.
There are hardly any similarities to classical mobas like Dota or League, just because there are Classes / Heroes with abilities does that not make it similar. There is no ingame progression, items, gold, lane pushing, towers, structures, throne etc etc. Overwatch is a FPS, same as Team fortress. Overwatch is has btw basically the same core gameplay as Team fortress. Having classes does not make a game moba like, Battlefield & CoD has classes too, the difference is mainly the setting. Aesthetically it is far closer to league of legends per example than other FPS that is true. Classes with abilities are a very commonly used gameplay element throughout all genres. Usually Id say Overwatch is a class based FPS but considering that more FPS have classes than not, it really is obsolete mentioning it.
Wikipedia & official TF2 statement also seconds that.
There are others, like tracer, who are very quick and don't have much health and can be super annoying in the hands of the right player.
or just take pharah, with the rocketlauncher I suck, but someone who played quake will definitely have a big advantage playing her.
That it has more in common with LoL is just plain wrong, the only bigger difference to a "pure fps" is, that you pick your weapons by chosing a character and that you can and should switch your loadout on respawn. You do not collect weapons, but on many shooters you got loadouts/classes/characters. I imagine Paragon to be much more Mobalike from what we know with the lanes, minions and all. Overwatch is just an objective and teambased shooter, not a deathmatch style one.
Paragon shows their moba influence very clearly in the trailer, there are lanes, creeps and lane pushing, key structures such as towers that need to be destroyed to make the throne vulnerable, which is a very specific metagame that draws little real life influence and has to be attributed to the unique moba core game as a result.
About the skill ceiling thing, expect Blizzard to make the game rather casual friendly with a compressed skillgap, which seems to be their direction in the last time oddly enough. Still there are heroes requiring higher mechanical skill than others, by having harder shooting mechanics (Sniper, Bow, Projectiles) that the FPS players with better aim can leverage however. Never forget that difficulty is always measured on your opponent and humans will always give you a high challenge no matter how simple the game.
Forcing the more dedicated players to start working ? (??) and killing themselves ? You mean sacrificing themselves for the team I suppose ? This all sounds very incorrect im afraid.
How much impact a player can have is limited by the skill cap of the game and the depth of the dynamics offered, not the difficulty. Also Implying classes make a game less challenging or competitive is just plain wrong. Thats like saying different weapons break the game flow, its just silly. Classes are just an extension of the player, just like a weapon.
Compressing the skill cap does not mean mechanics are dumbed down (althoug that often happens), but that there are fewer ways to differenciate yourself from other players, which I personally am no fan of, still it is in favor of the average and majority of players which I can understand. The recent craze of making games simpler is generally dumb still, as players always seek games with high skill ceiling and depth, which in return gives replayability and which in return keeps the game alive and brings sales.
Likely overwatch is not the right game for the super dedicated player, but for the average one.
In Mobas, HOTS / Strife is great if you want some casual fun, League is the middle ground where casual and cores are satisfied, and Dota 2 or HoN is for the dedicated players that like to make their own experience and have all doors open for them with very high skill cap. Different games for different players. If you like challenging games where you as player can have as much impact as your skill allows, give Dota a shot, there is pretty much nothing that comes close to it in that regard.