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[CE] Beach diorama

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polycounter lvl 11
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Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
Starting a thread for my new scene, which is inspired by this concept:

CrOIt2t.jpg

I haven't done much yet, just blocked out the small scene and put some basic materials on. I've also done a first rock, which didn't turn out perfect but will hopefully work as a prop in the back of the scene. The rest of the rocks will be flatter at the top like in the concept. I will probably be doing a few iterations of rocks so I have a few to choose from. Also a good opportunity to try the new dDo. (:

Only the rock in the upper corner is mine, the rest are placeholders.

Lots of work left but it's gonna be fun. Here's what I have so far:

p2qbkZ7.jpg

TIv2NC2.jpg

Since you can't do 3D water in CE (as far as I know), I'm planning to do a rocky outer wall, I think that's going to work just as well.

Feedback always appreciated!

Replies

  • Mr Significant
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    Mr Significant polycounter lvl 11
    Subbed. really interesting project.

    rock diffuse is very good, but moss looks very soft.


    How did you made water pool ?
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    You can get a lot more use out of stones if you don't leave the one side completely flat. It's a few more triangles but it's well worth it.
  • ed_3D
    What if instead of trying to do "3d water" you did something simple e.g. have 2 meshes like this:

    UOYG7Xw.png

    One for the land and the other one for the water. The water one would have a water shader applied. It seems to me like it would work perfectly fine, unless for whatever reason it can't be done in CE, I haven't used it so I wouldn't know.

    Looks cool btw! Good luck with it :)
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks! I agree on the moss. I think I'm going to run it through nDo to get some more volume for it. Thanks for pointing it out!

    The water is simply a WaterVolume. I added a bit of direction to it so it flows towards the beach. Also just added a bit of fog to fake depth.

    Before
    nqddJi2.jpg

    After
    oeUL63h.jpg

    ed_3D: Yes, I've tried that and multiple other ways to stay as true to the concept as possible (particles converted to geometry for use in CE, vertex deformation for the water, use a water shader for a mesh (that crashes the editor), use fog for depth and watervolume for surface, etc). But I simply can't find a way to get good looking moving water so I settled with this. The beach is geometry though, like in your pic. I'm going to sculpt a few textures and blend them together using vertex colors.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    ed_3D wrote: »
    What if instead of trying to do "3d water" you did something simple e.g. have 2 meshes like this:

    One for the land and the other one for the water. The water one would have a water shader applied. It seems to me like it would work perfectly fine, unless for whatever reason it can't be done in CE, I haven't used it so I wouldn't know.

    Looks cool btw! Good luck with it :)

    This^

    The concept looks really cool because of that "cut" through the sand and water.

    Kind of like Scott's dioramas, they wouldn't be nearly as cool if they didn't have broken wood and piping sticking out of the sides.

    Awesome ref though, looking forward to this developing. Looking nice so far.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Updated my post. If anyone can think of a way to do, I'm more than happy to see it! I agree, the charm of the concept is the cut but like I said, I haven't found a way to make it look and behave like realistic water (I want to render out a video once it's done so I don't want the water to be static).

    Gannon: You're definitely right. I'll keep that in mind for the next few rocks. I'm probably making a few smaller ones I can use all around the scene as well.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    17U9dWi.png

    You should just be able to use a gradient for opacity/transparency on a secondary UV channel. As for the material, use animated normals or displacement if you want it to be realtime. If not, maybe sculpt and bake the waves.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    That looks great in Maya/Max, but I'm not convinced it will work in CE (I don't think it supports secondary UVs). Also for look and feel: What about foam, flow, vertex wave amount? All these are parameters I'd like to use which is really hard to achieve with non-water shaders, especially if you want realistic movement.
  • s6
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    s6 polycounter lvl 10
    I've seen several people do realistic and believable (at least to my eye) waves/ oceans in Unreal with nothing more than a (reasonably) tessellated plane and proper material.

    Maybe it can't be done in CE3. Perhaps an expert will chime in and help achieve the desired effect :)
  • ed_3D
    Personally I think it *might* look better without any animated waves or anything, but just being a still shot as if the time has been frozen and everything is stopped in motion (e.g. while it was really windy), kind of like this I believe:

    statelyhome%20diorama3.jpg

    Otherwise you might as well just not cut anything off and do a full beach scene instead.

    But that's just my opinion! Your way with the rocks surrounding it sounds cool too, good luck with how ever you decide to do it :p
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    s6 wrote: »
    Maybe it can't be done in CE3. Perhaps an expert will chime in and help achieve the desired effect :)
    That would be great. I've planned to do the outer wall last so there's plenty of time to improve.

    ed_3D: Maybe you're right. Personally I like the idea of having a 1 minute long clip of the scene with some cozy ambient sounds and a few shots of the environment, and I'm afraid static water would feel off-putting.

    I remember seeing a script on here for Maya where you could modify shapes using curves. That could be used to make cool waves if I end up using geometry like you guys are suggesting. Can't remember what it was called though.

    Thanks for the ideas and feedback everyone. (:
  • leleuxart
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    leleuxart polycounter lvl 10
    No, you can't use secondary UVs in CRYENGINE. You can definitely fake the effect though.

    You could use a collection of meshes(with vertex alpha) to fake the depth and movement. I set it up really fast with two default cubes in engine and two materials. One uses the Vertex Deformation option the Illum shader comes with, while the other is still. With a little tweaking, vertex alpha(kind of like s6 showed), I think this could be an option.

    NDqZC2A.jpg


    Another method uses the actual WaterVolume shader for the vertex deformation, movement, foam, depth, etc. The major issue with this is the separation from the deformed plane and the fog plane. You can see what I mean with the black lines, of course it's not always that bad since it's in motion. Having the volume surrounded by something hides it too.

    AuFl3TX.jpg


    I hate to use my stuff as an example too, but I think using the WaterVolume, combined with particles and extra planes, is a good option. Two gifs here: In motion and individual pieces

    Hope these give you some ideas :thumbup:
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    I've done some more extensive tests regarding this and still can't get any results I like. It's especially the movement that bothers me with vertex deformation, I think it just looks blobby and not water like at all.

    As for the second approach, leleuxart, I'm not quite sure how that is different from what I have? I won't help me get the water "3D", so to speak.

    Moving on, I've done some more work. I have sculpted 6 different rocks in several sizes that I can scale and rotate around to make some formations. I was struggling a little bit to get the sharpness of the edges like in the reference right, but at the same time I think too sharp will cause some ugly aliasing. Either way, I think I can make it look cool with some patches of grass growing through the cracks and at the bottom, so I will get started on that next. There's one more rock shape I want to make, but I'm getting a little sick of rocks atm. :p Also not fully happy with the moss yet!

    QCENwsu.jpg

    GsmO4Av.jpg

    cPVuXAt.jpg

    MQ6hOmK.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Made some attempts at high poly grass, which I haven't done before, but I think it looks ok so far. Any advice or feedback is welcome!

    And while I'm at it, does anyone know if it's possible to make a gradient material in Maya that doesn't depend on UVs? I want to make one to use in PS as texture base.

    YOXVbLu.jpg
  • Mr Significant
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    Mr Significant polycounter lvl 11
    Make it less bended. And if you make it bolder, you can achieve more volume after baking it to diffuse, etc.

    Sorry for english, hope its clear what I wanted to say.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Yeah I think I know what you mean, I'll look into that. I actually made the blades thinner because thicker blades looked unrealistic, but maybe it translates better in-game if the high poly has more volume like you said.

    Cheers.
  • e-freak

    And while I'm at it, does anyone know if it's possible to make a gradient material in Maya that doesn't depend on UVs? I want to make one to use in PS as texture base.

    vertex colors?

    scene looks great :)
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Great idea! But I figured it out with the Ramp (I'm an idiot). I just had to planar map all the high polys from the front and now it looks good. And thanks btw!

    Here's a pic. I haven't applied Mr Significant's feedback yet.

    6DXhr7y.jpg
  • Iciban
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    Iciban polycounter lvl 10
    subbed! this is going to be interesting.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Cheers Iciban!

    I made some grass. Turned out alright for the first try but something I want to is improve color and size variation, especially color because I don't think it looks dry enough for a beach. Will mess around a bit more and also make more patches. Feedback welcome. :)

    p5VgnF8.jpg
  • scotthomer
    This looks great so far! Awesome work :D
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks so much Scott! Appreciate that!

    Here's a couple of more with a first pass of grass in the scene. I think I got pretty good color variation, where the grass is greener at the bottom and more dry and yellow-ish at the top, but I think I need some more size variation going on, but that's easy in the engine. I will probably do another plant before I move on to the palm trees. C&C welcome as always. :)

    sGwg2SH.jpg

    rVNOXz7.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Was sick of the lame beach texture so I made one now. It's blended between two textures, one pebbles texture I sculpted and the other is just flat sand. Used vertex colors to darken the sand around the shoreline. I realize the concept pic is mostly just flat sand so I'm probably toning it down, I just used a quick and dirty black and white mask for the blending for now. Will also make some puddle decals further up for variation.

    Sorry for the shadows, when I make my own trees I probably won't make as many leaves that occludes the ground.

    meexwA4.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    The shadows and rocks are pretty dark. I'm really liking the new sand, but I feel lik it could be a bit brighter/hotter
  • Holland
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    Holland polycounter lvl 9
    Looking really good! Maybe a coral reef around the submerged rock would be a nice touch. It would add some colour variation too, plus you could make some cool underwater shots. Keep it up :)
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    ZacD wrote: »
    The shadows and rocks are pretty dark. I'm really liking the new sand, but I feel lik it could be a bit brighter/hotter
    Yeah I agree with you looking back and comparing with the concept. I made the rocks a little brighter and will work on getting the shadows less dark.
    Holland wrote: »
    Looking really good! Maybe a coral reef around the submerged rock would be a nice touch. It would add some colour variation too, plus you could make some cool underwater shots. Keep it up :)
    Great idea, I think I'll do that. :) And thanks!

    Nothing much for today, I made a puddle decal but it's hard to get the blending right. I want it to reflect the sun, which it does, but... yeah. Any thoughts?


    fRMrGGY.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Sorry for lack of updates. I've been struggling with the boat. First thing was to achieve good sculpting topology from what I had in Maya, because most of the boat is soft, but a few areas with with wear and tear in the boat are all hard shapes, which was pretty tricky to get right in Zbrush. The second problem was actually sculpting wood which to me feels like an art in and of itself. :)

    I'll go ahead and sculpt the planks at the front next, shouldn't be as much of a problem.

    C&C welcome.

    kjJoU1i.jpg

    AFFDXln.jpg
  • RexM
    Good work so far.

    Look more closely at the concept, the wood grain has a lot more splitting on the boat there. Don't be afraid to exaggerate things, and also, don't be afraid to use real life references of old beat up boats of a similar style to truly get a feel for how the wood grain looks as it ages, where sediment might collect, how the wood is likely to split... it will help a lot.

    Also, alphas! Make simple, custom alphas and combine them with useful brushes (such as the layer brush) to get the results you want.

    Never try to guess things, always use good ref. :thumbup: Seeing the knot on the wood for the side of the boat throws me off as well. Boats like these are made with a series of planks, so the knot make it look strange. Any knots would be localized to a portion of a plank.

    I think it would've been easier to build this thing starting from planks, to be honest. Would make the sculpting WAY easier as well.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    RexM wrote: »
    Good work so far.
    Thanks!

    Edit: Oh damn I didn't know it was you Rex, what happened to your UltimaRage account?
    RexM wrote: »
    Look more closely at the concept, the wood grain has a lot more splitting on the boat there. Don't be afraid to exaggerate things, and also, don't be afraid to use real life references of old beat up boats of a similar style to truly get a feel for how the wood grain looks as it ages, where sediment might collect, how the wood is likely to split... it will help a lot.
    Yes, I've noticed. That's part of what I've been struggling with. I have been looking for tutorials on how to make splinters and old wood, but haven't found anything valuable, so I've been mostly experimenting and looking at other peoples models. Do you have any advice?
    RexM wrote: »
    Also, alphas! Make simple, custom alphas and combine them with useful brushes (such as the layer brush) to get the results you want.

    Never try to guess things, always use good ref. :thumbup: Seeing the knot on the wood for the side of the boat throws me off as well. Boats like these are made with a series of planks, so the knot make it look strange. Any knots would be localized to a portion of a plank.
    Yeah, most of the details are actually initially made with alphas. The cuts is a wood alpha that I spammed all over the mesh, and then used trim dynamic to reduce the amount of it. The wood knot is also mostly an alpha. Good feedback on that btw.
    RexM wrote: »
    I think it would've been easier to build this thing starting from planks, to be honest. Would make the sculpting WAY easier as well.
    That's what I started to do, but didn't continue with for two reasons. First, if you look closely at the concept you don't really see any plank "borders" where the surface is mostly intact, so it looks more like the boat is carved out from a huge piece of wood. But I agree planks make more sense because that’s how boats usually are made.

    The second reason is silhouette, with the planks I got an ugly blocky look, which I didn't like at all, as you can see below compared to my current HP. Any ideas how to fix?

    HgWkZOp.jpg

    Side view of what I started with:

    mvA81JU.jpg
  • RexM
    I use my real name on Polycount. :)

    Just subdivide the hull of the smooth ship into planks, and separate them out. You don't actually have to piece it together from individual planks.

    http://gsenorway.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/wooden-boat.jpg

    For the wood splinters, just get good alphas. Snake hook with a dotted alpha works fantastic for sharp wooden splintery edges too.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Cool! Good to see you're still around.

    I'm stupid, boats are built with planks extending from the front to the end, not with several planks like I did. That should sort out the silhouette. Starting over. :)

    Also do you think a cool look could be achieved by simply making a number of small splinter meshes that I can use across the boat? Sounds like a reasonable technique to me.
  • RexM
    Also do you think a cool look could be achieved by simply making a number of small splinter meshes that I can use across the boat? Sounds like a reasonable technique to me.

    Sounds like a good use for the insert mesh brush. Personally I prefer using brushes with alphas, especially with details so small that they will be barely noticeable during a bake. Sounds like too much work for too little result, but this also depends on how big you intend the splinter pieces to be.

    Experiment with multiple methods and see which works best for you, and also what helps you achieve the results you want. A lot can be done with a hard square alpha along with a good brush.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Sorry for slow progress. I just want this to turn out good so I'm doing lots of testing. Y'all think this looks like worn/beat up wood? C&C welcome!

    S8g50fj.jpg
  • felipealves
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    felipealves polycounter lvl 10
    Maybe not the best reference, but some cracks here and there would be nice!

    cracked-wood-plank.jpg

    Keep the good work!
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Great idea! You mean something like this? Tested on a new piece and I changed the material. :p It's hard to get the edge as hard as in your pic, but with some AO it might look good.

    rCTXJDo.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Here's a couple of shots of the HP boat. I will probably add a few wooden splinters here and there, but the HP is mostly done. I will also make a few individual planks lying around the scene, like in the concept. But I think those will be separate.

    What do you guys think?

    UViomOr.jpg

    s4DhQWl.jpg

    2ReB1Hh.jpg

    Ios1XXQ.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Hi everyone. I've had some more time to work on the scene. Here are some screens I just took, along with the last one for fun. I just really love how the rain looks in CE. I know the lights don't make much sense here, it was just testing. But I might make a some kind of light source later because I like this moody and rainy look.

    Next up is probably a decal to add some more variation to the sand, I'm thinking a sand decal with pebbles. Then I'll move on to the trees.

    C&C very much welcome.


    XKDj4QH.jpg

    THp9NpN.jpg

    vM5RYw7.jpg

    lqn3dgZ.jpg

    fOPd9YH.jpg
  • KazeoHin
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    KazeoHin polycounter lvl 8
    That water is WAAAY too bright! Water absorbs light as it gets deeper, it doesn't glow.
  • SergeiMirminski
    The sand looks to me like concrete. Under extreme sunlight, DRY sand tends to almost glisten. Maybe add a vertex paint fade from dry to wet sand as it approaches the water. Also, the sand seems a bit too flat, maybe use tesellation to make small dunes.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    KazeoHin wrote: »
    That water is WAAAY too bright! Water absorbs light as it gets deeper, it doesn't glow.
    Good point, I just tried to match it to the concept but you're right. Is this any better?

    7RQ2BV5.jpg
  • SergeiMirminski
    I think the sand, especially from looking at the concept, is much brighter- more white and yellow. A more gradual gradient might look better too as currently the wetness looks too isolated and unrealistic- painted.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    The sand looks to me like concrete. Under extreme sunlight, DRY sand tends to almost glisten. Maybe add a vertex paint fade from dry to wet sand as it approaches the water. Also, the sand seems a bit too flat, maybe use tesellation to make small dunes.
    I already have vertex colors, but it's a good idea to make the transition less hard (fixed below).

    As for the sand, the materials are PBR so I'm not sure what I can do about the concrete look. Any ideas? Also the material is already pretty crazy so I can't actually add more displacement since the beach stones already are POMd.

    us4tiCn.jpg

    Thanks for the crits guys.

    Edit:
    I think the sand, especially from looking at the concept, is much brighter- more white and yellow. A more gradual gradient might look better too as currently the wetness looks too isolated and unrealistic- painted.
    Good call about the color, I can definitely brighten up the sand diffuse.
  • juniez
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    juniez polycounter lvl 10
    I think it looks fantastic but the sand shoreline looks artificially straight - you should vary it up like in the concept.

    also it's a shame about the whole 3d water thing... the borders take some of the charm out of the original idea
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    juniez wrote: »
    I think it looks fantastic but the sand shoreline looks artificially straight - you should vary it up like in the concept.

    also it's a shame about the whole 3d water thing... the borders take some of the charm out of the original idea
    Thanks! I had another go. Brightened the texture and added some vertex painting for color variation to better match the concept. How's this?

    QrLwuYl.jpg

    And yeah I agree about the borders. That's one of the things that caught my attention with this concept. :(
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Final edit for today. I made the shoreline a little more natural, as suggested. :)

    oaZRZnr.jpg
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Ok, so I made a few decals from the same texture, one full and two halves of it, and applied some brightness variation to them. Here's in Maya and also ingame. It's pretty subtle in CE.

    What do you think?

    U2ZZDEC.jpg

    1gC393V.jpg

    5fcBDsa.jpg
  • felipealves
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    felipealves polycounter lvl 10
    Man! I loved that sand.
  • Brygelsmack
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    Brygelsmack polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks dude!

    I made the water rock while I'm figuring out how I'll approach the palm trees. Took another couple of screens while I was at it. Hope you like. (:

    Bokeh ftw!

    W3nP5Zl.jpg

    cJn2Jfj.jpg

    d7d6Lfi.jpg
  • MattyWS
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    MattyWS polycounter lvl 11
    I don't know if it's just me but that boat looks like it'd snap like an ice lolly stick, it's really thin wood.
  • oxblood
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    oxblood polycounter lvl 9
    your killing this.. the only thing il say is that the two barrels on the left should be the same size.. it thows of the proportions with eveything else.. it just stands out to me
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