DJ Hero? FAIL FAIL *RANT* :E
polycounter lvl 18
I kept hoping. Waiting. Instead we get this? These people obviously don't understand DJing as a genre in itself and are stuck with what they know, Guitar Hero. So lets just take RnB, Rap, etc and allow slightly different takes on regular tunes.
Were can I take small tracks and make completely new tunes? Rez man Rez! Where can I decide what genre I want the track to be? Where can I see instead of a road of notes coming at me, a full frontal view of the audience. Where how well you are doing influences how many people are on the dance floor? How many lasers and viddjs interact with you. How you progress with different venues and new samples to add to your collection.
DJ Hero? Is not Dj'ing. Its a slap in the face. Taking popular music as is and allowing slight twists and how its played in conjunction with yet another popular tune... For the most part like guitar hero, just following the numbers versus allowing for individual flair.
THIS IS DJing......
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__uVTxkbcp8[/ame]
You hear me Jamie Jackson? You one hit wonder. When this fails, you will blame it on the market versus your own lack of understanding of DJ culture. Here this would at least get you a better sense of the culture. http://www.paulsizer.com/bpm/bpm_front.htm
/End Rant
( I might have even taken the plunge for a console for a real DJ game. I don't like Guitar Hero nor Rock Band. (Probably Rock Band more as listening to people kill classics with shitty singing)
Were can I take small tracks and make completely new tunes? Rez man Rez! Where can I decide what genre I want the track to be? Where can I see instead of a road of notes coming at me, a full frontal view of the audience. Where how well you are doing influences how many people are on the dance floor? How many lasers and viddjs interact with you. How you progress with different venues and new samples to add to your collection.
DJ Hero? Is not Dj'ing. Its a slap in the face. Taking popular music as is and allowing slight twists and how its played in conjunction with yet another popular tune... For the most part like guitar hero, just following the numbers versus allowing for individual flair.
THIS IS DJing......
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__uVTxkbcp8[/ame]You hear me Jamie Jackson? You one hit wonder. When this fails, you will blame it on the market versus your own lack of understanding of DJ culture. Here this would at least get you a better sense of the culture. http://www.paulsizer.com/bpm/bpm_front.htm
/End Rant
( I might have even taken the plunge for a console for a real DJ game. I don't like Guitar Hero nor Rock Band. (Probably Rock Band more as listening to people kill classics with shitty singing)
Replies
I always though being a DJ was like pretending to be a musician anyway, so I'm a little perplexed at what a video game about pretending to be something your not would be like, its like watching the matrix, about people who are in a video game, then in a real world, but it's still a movie see and I'm at home in the real, real world.
yeah.
THREAD APPROVED
SMUG.
Oxy, you're about to get smug-shit on for an entire thread. buckle up my friend.
I'll say it once and again. Rez man Rez! New tunes each time you play.
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... I also like Syd btw.
I spit out some of my water when I read this. Damn you for wetting my keyboard.
SO IS THE GUITAR
AND DJ HERO AND GUITAR HERO ARE VIDEOGAMES
FGHFGJFHGHFHFHFFG
SO IS REZ.
HGHGJHGJHGJHGJHG
Heh, in fact, if they had used CC license for the samples they created. They could have made a whole community of people sharing their creations... Another idea lost in making a clone...
Heh, this nerd flu has really put me in a mood.. LET ME AT HIM! LET ME AT HIM! ILL WIPE THE FLOORS WITH HIM.
it's fun, so shut up.
RGJSAHDJASD NERD RAGE YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT
LOL. Can we start a Poll of just how many people had this exact same thought when they read the OP?
Also, in related news, playing EA's Madden isn't really playing football ...
How about this. If this sells like hotcakes, I will print out this first page, cut it into shreds and eat it in a sandwich. I will even take pictures. That's how sure I am Im not alone in this.
I NEVER made the connection of Guitar Hero or any of the Beamani to be musical. Just "games". I don't get bent out of shape over racing games, why in the hell do people get bent out of shape over music games? Do they feel threatened? Don't want some kid who maybe had some bias against DJ'ing, hear a few tracks after playing the game and then buy some music and maybe support the people you love to hear? There has been countless music tracks I've NEVER would have listened to had I not heard it in a game. I went out and bought those tracks because I liked them so much. I even bought choir music and I thought I hated it. And from there I bought opera and eventually went to watch a couple... which again, I thought was lame and stupid. I proved myself wrong and it's actually quite enjoyable.
<<
Got's the JDM version of Rez with vibrator.
IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE, YOU MUST NOW OFFER YOUR SHRIVELED OLD-MANHOOD TO HARMONIX, ON A GOLDEN PLATTER, SO THAT THEY MAY GRANT YOU MERCY IN THE COMING REVOLUTION.
go buy
YES!
YES!
Oh god.. Thats what I mean... Rockstar understands!!! Now, just throw the DJ turntable into Rockstars, and perfection. Where "X" Star fails.. fails. fails.... You can have a music game where there is some originality for your own creation. Suck it Harmonix! While all you fanboys should take note, that x hero isn't the only way to make a music game.
Never! I will go down with the ship! The band will be playing... Tiesto!
******
Lamont, how about, if its in the top two sellers in the month its released? Would that work? (And no, Im not doing over 20+ replies.. I realize paper has some good fiber and all, but Im just too wheeny for anything bigger).
um.. someone doesn't get it. but yes, beaterator looks cool.
why have you not been gushing over MTV's music studio on ps2?
top 2 eh? in October? what else is there... Brutal Legend, Forza, NBA Live, Borderlands, and GTA are the big ones, but DJ comes out on the 27th, so you might have to count November instead, in which case forget it because MW2 comes out.
you are just silly. set a number for us!
I would imagine a true DJ game would consist of players standing next to a box of fake vinyl records behind a cheap plastic turntable while wearing a headset, bobbing his/her head to a repetitive beat while smiling like a douche....oh, and fireworks. Uhn Tiss Uhn Tiss Uhn Tiss.
That's my rant.
how about 250-300k? that sounds like a sturdy number
Though this is their first iteration of DJ HERO, perhaps if they get more feedback and vibes they might expand on it to make it ultimate. Or they might just milk it for all that the cash cow can give.
:E omnomnomnom
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/12/music-game-sales-down-46-still-third-best-selling-genre/
DJ Hero isn't a game where you mix dance music. You can't make an american music game centered around that, since let's face it- Hip-hop, rnb, and rap is in, and dance music is made fun of (sadly.) Most people worldwide don't know much beyond what gets radio fame, anyway.
Mixing dance music usually isn't that exciting anyway, considering most big DJs don't get too creative and decide to instead just put on some tracks and occasionally adjust the pitch and move the crossfader back and forth. :P That's why production is for me!
Therefore, DJ Hero is mostly about mashups and trying to mimic the turntablism look and feel, and it does a decent job of it, but there's only so much you can do. It would be extremely hard to game any kind of grading system for a truly creative turntablism or mixing game.
This, to me, is real DJing, because something creative is being done with existing music. Not saying you can't to the same with dance music (especially with the introduction of Ableton Live as a DJing tool,) but turntablism is the most common example of this.
Just look up the DMC world championships for more examples.
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The video you posted is just Tiesto putting in a cd with Adagio and then holding his hands up asking everyone to worship him. That's not DJing.
TL;DR- DJ Hero is a fake turntablism game, America hates dance music, and Tiesto sucks.
Racer.. Your my new hero (jk). Your right though, Tiesto, was just being a punk, but that feel is what I meant would be perfect for such a game with the glamor for the fun factor.
Good shit btw.
Love this kid..
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Lets not forget...
DJ Shadow...
http://djshadow.com/news/dj-hero-message-shadow
shit!
Ok, ok, ok how about Daft punk..
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/09/11/daft-punk-bring-exclusive-mixes-mash-ups-and-masks-to-dj-hero/
SHIT!
I was too busy seeing big PRs like Enimem who is not a DJ to see whom else was involved.
Oh man, Im gonna have to eat my words, literally. Bound. "how about 250-300k? that sounds like a sturdy number " Units? How does that compare to guitar heros?
Now I remember why I got sick of this stuff - everyones better than everyone - if you don't like the music you must be a moron. Or maybe you just don't have robot ears.
In the words of Mr Rollings. "You're not a musician, you're a record player player."
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I think fruity loops is my favorite music game, i mean you can do so many things it's insane, it's like actually being a musician, you know?
Have you even played REZ?
It's not "new tunes" at all. Each Level is split into 10 sections, the music changes slightly per section, but it's the same - however many times you play.
I agree that a DJ game could be very creative, but historically rhythm based games follow copy cat patterns and are not about following mood of crowds or other such interesting ideas. DJ arcade games have been around for ages, along with the Arcade games that guitar hero is based on.
If anyone thinks that DJing is just about chucking a few techno CD's on, check out Kid Koala. He makes music on the decks using old records. Brilliant.
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Seriously. The software even comes with a beginner mode that can autobeatmatch for you if you don't have the chops to do it yourself.
Further info
then there are These for further investment, all you need is a proper turntable and the torq connector in the middle and you've got tactile digital music control.
It's quite sad to see a musician show so much ignorance. Sure there are laptop kids that don't deserve any merit, but what the hell is this guy saying? Most DJ's don't claim to be musician purely because they mix, they also produce tracks (as in actually create music from scratch). And then this tough guy rocker goes on to generalize they all have "no talent"...
Don't judge what you don't know a thing about, I'd say. I had to turn of that vid after 1.5 minutes because it was just too much for me.
I don't know anything about DJ culture but that comic kind of made me think of Frequency and Amplitude (if it was set in the year 3000 or somthin). So maybe Harmonix will jump in with their version of a DJ game.
And DJ'ing - come on, the closest thing a DJ come to being musically is being a drummer, and that's not much - it's the musical equivalent of cutting shit out of magazines and making pictures from it - nothing new, just splicing up the old.
Granted there are only so many musical notes, so many chord progressions, but have we really run out of ideas so early?
I'll give cred to people who at least will break out the piano-roll in cakewalk/protools/flstudio whatever and actually at least put down some melodies - but comparing some guy scratching a couple of records together on a 2-way mixer to someone who plays piano/guitar or even a fucking harmonica is like saying some kid with some pens and a colouring book is the next michaelangelo.
first and best reply in this thread.
conglaturation
now, Im no big-city dj as mrs.Tiesto, what with my cheap numark 1650ies and mixer,
but I dont really see anything too offensive in Dj Hero, when you look at how they are butchering all other instruments with these sorts of games.
but yeah, Id much more prefer a game based on beatmatching rather than holding 3 fingers on a plastic disc and moving a crossfader back and forth...
whatever, shouldnt you people be modeling or something?
laaaaaaaaaazy
;p
I think getting used to strumming with one hand while you put your other hand in odd positions all while not looking at your hands really prepares kids for the real thing.
I also know a few people that became interested in real drums after trying out Rock Band's drums.
also, when it comes to talkin' bout talent we all fail
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The question about running out of ideas is an interesting one. I think there's probably some way to model the diversification of music as a branching, fractal system, however there's another force at play. Capitalism and market forces. We're reaching a point were major record labels are the creators and purveyors of modern musical culture. The idea that the people at the bottom level, in the underground are defining culture is absurd when compared to the power and penetration of mass market media culture. The "underground" is still the bubbling source for the material that the record companies then select from based on potential profitability. Sure there's the risk you can take with "new" ideas, however the reality is actually new ideas generally market VERY poorly. People like things they can identify, if it doesn't fit into a preconceived notion of what something like music is supposed to be, they won't like it, won't buy the records, and the investment was a failure. So the drive for profit starts out at the lower level by encouraging diversity but at the level of national and international markets everything is so expensive that the product is required to be successful for the investors to break even. So it ends up being in the major labels short term interests to generally stay away from "new" ideas because of the risk to the investment involved. I think the same thing is happening in the movie and video game industries. The market is so huge, and the cost of production is so high that the product needs to be nearly a guaranteed success in order to attract investors with enough capital to make the projects happen. Hence shitty sequels, made at a minimum cost and banking on a built in audience of previous fans. To be honest I don't think that these days we can ever reasonably rely on large scale, profit motivated media creators to generate anything interesting or new. There are some notable and rare exceptions, but as exceptions they basically prove the rule.
I think concepts like "the next Michelangelo" or "the next Beethoven" or "the next Beetles" are flawed because there will never be another one of those things again. Their masterpieces were products of the cultures and forces present in their time and place as much as they were individual human achievements. I'm not saying that there won't be someone with the musical capacity of Beethoven, or the artistic skills of Michelangelo, but how their skills manifest will be of such a different nature because of the time and place that they live in that there will be no way to reasonably compare the two.
Well, offensive. Maybe not to you the actual Dj who can shrug and laugh it off. But to the peon that just wants to have fun mixing tracks and emulate the glamor of super Djing.. Yes.
Also Im a bit tired of people using the guitar hero isn't a guitar. DUH! I tell you something you people are obviously missing.
A Guitar is based on a series of notes that can be written down. In this, Guitar Hero DOES follow a Guitar. (Just no variation in speed or tempo for the individual).
A TurnTable has no set series of notes. It has a series of record bits and pieces. It is not formulated down to being repeatable or sheet music. DJ Hero is following Guitar Hero with the idea of a single variation, when what makes DJing to a large extent in part is its based on beat, and >>variance<<.
So back to the point of SupRore point? Its ill relevant because the basic idea behind HOW the instrument works is different. Guitar Hero does follow the basic principle of linear notes like a guitar. DJ Hero emulates this with beats, but this is further off the mark because these beats are never static, which is one of the core points of a turntable setup.
So yea. No. People who are relying on the idea that since guitar hero isn't playing a guitar, so stfu. Totally don't understand how DJ'ing is not playing a guitar nor normal instrument. Honestly (and this is meant as a friendly burn). IF you cant understand this, you would have been perfect for the development team of DJ Hero.
Right from the horses mouth! You understand what Im saying though.
Hey! I don't use Facebook. soo thpppt!
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Hawken. Dammit. Your right. I,,, never played it. I always heard/understood the beat changed based on how well you were doing. That it was dynamic.
Shiiiit. Another open mouth insert foot moment. Im starting to get a fungus after taste in my mouth. :P
While some dj's do alot of work to alter sounds they do not create sounds.
Scratches & fx are an altering of existing sound; as to where plucking a note, pressing a key, sounding a note is creating a sound from nonexistence.
So similar? Similar in what? Did the above DJs not show that this a "bit" more varied than modifying existing songs? This isn't a wedding "DJ" or the 80s.
A turntable scratch operates with hand movement. A very Analog function. The on/off allow the amplification of the sound and EQ functions. Play an electric guitar without electricity? Still though, they share this, but they separate as an electric guitar follows a strict game plan of a song. Tempo can be changed to individual. Dj setup is taking a whole world of different sounds and finding the right combination at the right time with a beat. DJing allows much more freedom in this expression than a guitar. Which again. DJ Hero fails when it mimic's guitar hero.
Also your making this into a versus. Realize I like both DJing and Rock (just not Guitar Hero). But if you want to go there. >>You<< aren't making the sound with a guitar. Your plucking a string. The vibration of that string is making the sound. We could go on back and forth all night long. The point is this gets nowhere. The point remains DJ Hero fails. IM(Extroverted)Opinion.
Now lets wait for its release and see how it sells. Cause I might be eating paper soon.
the first point was in reference to the comment about varience; a dj who playes for 4 - 6 hours will undoubtedly have some changes in mood and style, but within the 'chunks' there will be similarity, almost neccessarily(oh boy...), in key, and theme; otherwise they'd be a radio dj(just a mash of songs rather than a themed progression of sound). I thought the point of having seperate rooms was for the variance.
again, not fighting here....we're arguing:D
And beatmania was awesome so quit complaining.