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Pirate Environment

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This is a new scene that I am working on. I wanted to do something similar to the Pirates Of The Carribean games. It's gonna be a still shot of a street corner. I'm done most of the modeling, but I still have to add in a few more things. C and C are welcome...

wirez.jpg
comped.jpg

Replies

  • slipsius
    Lookin good!! couple of things.

    Im guessin you are going for high poly? if so, the canvas on the little booth to the right of the picture could use some rounding off. the outline just looks kind of jaggy compared to say, the barrels.

    and the other thing, maybe model another barrel variation. broken, or open. something like that. using the same barrel a bunch of times in a small scene like this is well, noticable. at least for me. besides, pirates... chances are theres gonna be a broken thing here or there, ya know?

    besides that, its lookin really good!!
  • Ben Apuna
    Looks good, maybe breakup the ground geometry a bit to give it some dips in places that would be more worn down by people traveling over it. A bit of foliage here and there might help too. Stack a few props onto that cart in the middle so it does not look like an exact duplicate of the one right next to it.

    Any plans to get this into a game engine?

    Oh and if no one has mentioned it yet, welcome to Polycount :)
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 19
    Much prefer the lighting happening in the wire shot over that in the render. I know its all temporary, but it still made me want to do this:
    piratecolouring.jpg
  • dv8ix
    Looks like it would make a good Counterstrike Source Map :D lol that be sweeeet.
  • Zack Fowler
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    Zack Fowler polycounter lvl 11
    This is a nicely composed scene. The proportions are slightly stylized but consistent, prop placement feels pretty natural and balanced, although as Ben Apuna pointed out the duplication of the carts is a bit noticeable. Is there a particular concept you're working off of or are you just winging it from various references? Will you just be rendering it from your 3D software or will you be importing it to an engine for realtime? Will you be doing any high poly models for projections?
  • GugloPWN
    I like the ragged fences in the way back. I don'y know how muc hdamage people tend to add to the geometry vs. the texture. How upscale a pirate scene is this going to be?

    With pirates theres always the stuffed shirts chasing them! This seems to be leaning toward British Navy Post.
  • Max
    Smooth render, looks nice man! Looking forward to the texturing..
  • A-Train
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    A-Train polycounter lvl 15
    Really great reel rsharma! Inspiring stuff
  • Karmageddon
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    Karmageddon polycounter lvl 7
    You might want to consider using the movie HOOK as reference. The first place Peter Pan ends up at NeverLand is a pirate market.

    Looking pretty sweet =D
  • Toast
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    Toast polycounter lvl 11
    adam wrote: »
    Much prefer the lighting happening in the wire shot over that in the render. I know its all temporary, but it still made me want to do this:
    piratecolouring.jpg

    he comped an ao pass over a beaty render. this is always wrong and its why the first image he posted looks better!
  • Canden Picard
    Ya know It looks to me like a change of time of day with the lighting difference. Maybe its not bad looking bro. Its not wrong just because You dont prefer it, I actually liked the second picture at first. Although, it depends what your going for in the scene.
  • Toast
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    Toast polycounter lvl 11
    No, AO pass multiplied over a beauty or final image is wrong. Not an opinion, it's wrong. It was never intended for that purpose. I like the image and it's a nice scene, very well modeled, i'm just letting people know that you should never multiply an ao image over your final render, see the dirty noise effect it creates and the suppression of the whites?

    http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2008/11/joy-of-little-ambience.html

    it's the exact same time of day too, canden.
  • IronicallyMaiden
    Great looking pirate scene, you've inspired me to create a ninja scene :)
  • rsharma
    Thank you all for your comments.
    slipsius: I'm trying to not go for high poly, I still have to work on budgeting my polys. I am planning on doing variations to the barrels, the ones there right now are just place holders.
    Ben Apuna: Thanks for the welcome :). I will take it into a game engine once I learn how to do it but for now I'm gonna stick with Maya.
    adam: You're right, that does look better.
    dv8ix: lol. Thanks
    ZackF: I'm working off of some references. I will be rendering it in Maya. I was planning on doing some hi poly projections but I'm not sure what ill do it on.
    GugloPWN: I will eventually model some damaged objects.
    Max
  • Seaseme
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    Seaseme polycounter lvl 8
    any chance we can just see it real time in maya? The render looks nice.
  • GugloPWN
    oh wow! I can see it looking all piratey now after those initial textures. Did you model that crack in the wall above the ladder while texturing?

    The overhanging building in the back looks a little strange textured. Maybe plaster it instead of brick?
  • rsharma
    Seaseme: Do you want a wireframe shot or just the unlit textures.
    GugloPWN: Yeah. I wasn't sure how I wanted to damage it so I textured it and modeled the damage later. You're right about the second building. It was bugging me too, I will be different in my next post.
  • Ben Apuna
    I've got a feeling like the opening in your arch/gate is a bit too short, I could be wrong though. Would a person on horseback or a fully loaded cart fit through that gate? I know pirates = ships not horses but it was a popular method of transportation during the time period...
  • whats_true
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    whats_true polycounter lvl 15
    Put the ground texture in asap. Will certainly bind everything together fast me thinks. Its looking really nice at this point. Still a little bit empty on the smaller details, but well see.
  • Mark Dygert
    Toast wrote: »
    No, AO pass multiplied over a beauty or final image is wrong. Not an opinion, it's wrong. It was never intended for that purpose. I like the image and it's a nice scene, very well modeled, i'm just letting people know that you should never multiply an ao image over your final render, see the dirty noise effect it creates and the suppression of the whites?

    http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2008/11/joy-of-little-ambience.html

    it's the exact same time of day too, canden.
    Not saying your wrong, because you are totally right. However for work in progress shots and quick knock ups its perfectly acceptable and much MUCH quicker to just do a AO pass and multiply it. Now if he's doing it that way for final beauty renders than yea he will have some issues.

    Honestly instead of monkey rigging MR/FG to calculate AO I'd probably suggest using VRay for still shots. If its moving probably skip it.


    The block out is looking good, you framed the shot well. I have a good feeling about this piece, I can't wait to see more =)
  • Seaseme
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    Seaseme polycounter lvl 8
    Rsharma - if you're doing this as game art it's pretty important what it looks like running real time in the viewport. Renders look great and all, but aren't really a representation of what things will end up looking like in a game engine.
  • rsharma
    Ben Apuna: You were right about the size issue. it was big enough for a human but not if they were on a horse.
    whats_true: I have a habit of doing my ground textures last. As for the smaller details, I usually add them around the end too.
    Vig: thanks. I won't do that for my final render.
    Seaseme: good point, there's a real time render below.

    wire.jpg
    updatee.jpg
  • Ben Apuna
    So far so good, though it's looking a tad too gray/brown right now for my taste. As you continue on try to think about adding more color to the scene, perhaps the cloth covering on the fruit stand or curtains in the windows. How about adding some melons or lemons to the fruit for more colors?

    GugloPWN made a great suggestion about changing the brick building to plaster (which I think you are planning to do), I think that will help alleviate some of the brownishness as well.
  • rsharma
    Ben Apuna: I dunno, I kinda like the grey and browns but I will add some color to the scene as well as variations on the fruits. For that second building I kept the brick, I just changed up the textures.
  • Ben Apuna
    Yeah no worries, not trying to push anything on you. Just throwing out ideas. It's your scene after all and I'm sure you've got your own ideas and plans :)
  • Toast
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    Toast polycounter lvl 11
    Looking great now rsharma, texturing is really nice. are those paint effects palm trees? looking forward to the ground texture.
    Vig wrote: »
    Honestly instead of monkey rigging MR/FG to calculate AO I'd probably suggest using VRay for still shots. If its moving probably skip it.

    I think rsharma said he's using Maya. Unfortunately us Maya users will only be able to experience vray next week when the first official release happens! A long time coming.
  • rsharma
    Toast: Thanks. Those palm trees are from my demo reel. I didn't know vray was coming out for Maya. I'm really looking forward to that. :)
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    just a little nitpick, you said the barrels are placeholders but they look like they need to be rounded off a little more on the vertical. hit up google for rum barrels for some nice ref.
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 19
    Toast wrote: »
    No, AO pass multiplied over a beauty or final image is wrong. Not an opinion, it's wrong. It was never intended for that purpose. I like the image and it's a nice scene, very well modeled, i'm just letting people know that you should never multiply an ao image over your final render, see the dirty noise effect it creates and the suppression of the whites?

    http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2008/11/joy-of-little-ambience.html

    it's the exact same time of day too, canden.

    LOL, multiplying it over a beauty is perfectly fine if the AO is baked properly and the comp is done well.

    Whoops! Difference of opinion! :poly122: Polycount mod's alerted.
  • CastratedWeasel
  • Mark Dygert
    rsharma wrote: »
    Vig: thanks. I won't do that for my final render.
    You totally can, the difference is so slight and we're talking about film quality nit picking. It's almost to the point of arguing about what kind of wax to use on your race car, does it really matter? I'm sure on someones graph somewhere it moves a needle...

    Honestly if you wanted to set up the scene and render it out "technically correct" and post them side by side it would be interesting to see the "difference". I think it might put the issue in perspective.

    This is game art you do whatever the hell looks great, and you're already doing that so don't think you're doing something wrong. Don't stay away from anything that looks good, even if someone freaks out and tells you its technically wrong.

    It's good to know the ins and outs and listen to the different opinions of what is technically right but athletically its subjective and AO is a tool to get to an awesome result.
  • adam
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    adam polycounter lvl 19
    Vig wrote: »
    This is game art you do whatever the hell looks great, and you're already doing that so don't think you're doing something wrong. Don't stay away from anything that looks good, even if someone freaks out and tells you its technically wrong.

    I love you. Let's have technically inaccurate babies together.
  • PixelGoat
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    PixelGoat polycounter lvl 12
    adam wrote: »
    I love you. Let's have technically inaccurate babies together.

    Can I join in too?
  • rsharma
    Dekard: I'll check that out.
    CastratedWeasel: I like the font, I might just wear it out a little more.
    Vig: Thanks. I'll do what ever I need to in order to make it look great.
    adam and PixelGoat: room for a fourth? :poly124:
  • Target_Renegade
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    Target_Renegade polycounter lvl 11
    Starting to come together nicely, i agree that the ground will bind the whole scene. Big stone slabs with straw here and there perhaps?
  • rsharma
    Target_Renegade: Thanks. Thats a good idea, I'll see if I can fit it in.

    Heres a little update.

    update.jpg
  • PixelGoat
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    PixelGoat polycounter lvl 12
    Love pirates, love the style of your scene :)
  • c0ldhands
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    c0ldhands polycounter lvl 15
    Yarr, that be looking mighty fine there matey, but them barrels be too big me guessing. A trusty pirate town is not complete without the fluttering pirate flag, you savy?
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    coming together nicely, cool textures.
  • Mark Dygert
    That's looking good, the only thing that is sort of bothering me is the saturation on the wood. There are different ages and types of wood but they all look pretty new. Barrels might have a brighter saturation since they have shorter life spans and are often less exposed to the elements than some of the foundational timbers.

    Even on some of the timbers some parts might be exposed to the sun/rain and bleach out faster than the shaded protected areas.

    But that depends on how it is unwrapped and how much crazy sat/tweaking you're up for.
  • Shogun3d
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    Shogun3d polycounter lvl 12
    Great stuff coming together, a lot of wood you got there ;)

    I would suggest some variations of the wood as Vig's mentioned based on effects such as sunbake and perhaps even different types. The fruit section is definitely nice.

    Maybe perhaps some clothing lines strung up across the buildings?
  • Harry
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    Harry polycounter lvl 13
    adam wrote: »
    I love you. Let's have technically inaccurate babies together.


    I'm curious, you say inaccurate, when the allegation was that it's "bad practise" to run AO over the final render or something.

    Is there any reason to think that doing things in that way gives a less accurate (in terms of how lighting is computed or applied or something) result at all? Or just a bad choice of words?
    I'm not being a smartarse here, I'm genuinely interested, cause I didn't think that it would make a difference (other than the scene not looking the same in real time)
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    whats the story with all the strewn barrels?

    needs some mud / dirty sand.
  • MattQ86
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    MattQ86 polycounter lvl 15
    Great work so far. I think the scene needs some ropes/clotheslines to fill in the vertical space. When I think pirates I think of dudes living in a total packrat society, places like this would be like an open air market of stolen goods.
  • Ben Apuna
    Yup ropes lots of rope, maybe fishing nets too and/or a fish stand or barrels full of fish next to fruit stand? Now that I think about it aside from the palm trees not much in this scene strikes me as a port town yet, sandy ground will probably help.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    I mentioned flags, clotheslines and ropes to "rsharma" a few days ago via IM but he doesn't have any ideas for where to place them, so specific ideas would help.

    I agree with Vig about the Wood, try more variation. Also definitely consider more why the props in the scene would be placed the way they are. At the moment they seem kind of random or placed just to look good.
  • woogity
    not an enviro guy so much, but i feel like for more of a pirate thing instead of general store, tavern and there isnt enough broken stuff, or dirt yet.

    just some ideas.



    -Woog
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    Harry wrote: »
    I'm curious, you say inaccurate, when the allegation was that it's "bad practise" to run AO over the final render or something.

    Is there any reason to think that doing things in that way gives a less accurate (in terms of how lighting is computed or applied or something) result at all? Or just a bad choice of words?
    I'm not being a smartarse here, I'm genuinely interested, cause I didn't think that it would make a difference (other than the scene not looking the same in real time)

    yup cos lighting is addative not negative in the real world and now thank fuck in good engines. its like the difference between old (puke inducing) backward shadow casting and new forward lighting

    edit, and yeah get on with the ground, most important part of the scene and your lleaving it till last tch tch
  • Pbcrazy
  • Mark Dygert
    Harry wrote: »
    I'm curious, you say inaccurate, when the allegation was that it's "bad practise" to run AO over the final render or something.

    Is there any reason to think that doing things in that way gives a less accurate (in terms of how lighting is computed or applied or something) result at all? Or just a bad choice of words?
    I'm not being a smartarse here, I'm genuinely interested, cause I didn't think that it would make a difference (other than the scene not looking the same in real time)
    It is technically inaccurate to run AO over a beauty render in most cases but it depends on how it was constructed.

    Q: Does it shave a few hours of tweaking highly accurate lighting and shadow solutions that take even longer to render out? A: Sure.
    Q: Are the results near the same and closer to what you see in real time? A: Probably.
    Q: Is it technically inaccurate for a beauty render? A: That depends if it looks amazing or not.

    Most game artists multiply the AO over a beauty shot because they are used to running out AO over the top of their flat color diffuse maps. Technically bad to do, but most of the time it works out.

    My bottom line: It allows you to use incredibly cheap and fast rendering techniques and gives good results. Speed and beauty.
    Or
    Technically accurate and long on time with harder to tweak results.

    I'll take fast iteration I can tweak easily, especially for WIP shots.
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