Everybody that works for us on OverDose gets a little chat before they even put finger to mouse that goes something like "Yeah we can't pay you, but man if you make good stuff get that on your portfolio, help us and help you out at the same time."
Thats for an indie game, but a mod is near enough the same... Your work is your work, and unless the guy paid you for said work, its yours. He doesn't own a thing, you do. You could tell him, right now, to eat a dick and take your work with you. Yes it would be rude and yes, in mean spirit... But the team should really be asking you to publish your work on your portfolio, after all, it gives them extra hits...
I can understand why he wouldn't want the work in any other mod or game, thats his right and I'm sure he asked you that. The work you produce for anybody thats too a set specification (i.e. his design) means that its for... his design. I can understand if all he has said is that he doesn't want the work showing up in any other mod or game, because I would feel the same. Something that makes the game feel how you wanted it to be, being shown in ANOTHER mod, thats just bad...
Long story short, until they pay up any cash you own the rights to your work, and you CAN put it anywhere you want. They should be giving you all the support in the world for you to get those models shown on your portfolio, its YOUR WORK, your PORTFOLIO. But allowing these models, something so specific, to be in ANOTHER mod is bad taste on your part, and I really think it quite rude, in a way. Yes they are yours, but mate, you made them for a certain something....
well not so much on the topic but I signed several NDAs for Mods and it was always ok - in the cases involved it was just about "hey, we are doing our media releases as a team so please don't show your awesome levels before we can decide as a team that we are showing them" which is something i'm ok with and what's a NDA is basically about.
If your team told you "this is a NDA" and they "hide" additional contractual bindings in there it's a form of mislead and if they ever think they can screw you with that, every lawyor will beat the crap out of them. Go ahead, use your stuff for whatever you want to use it and tell them they are free to use it in the form it has been when you left and modify it if they want BUT ONLY for that specific project (you give them right to use your content on the specific product, nothing else - if the guy starts another mod he's not allowed to use it again). That way they get a pretty good deal after all and you can use your stuff for what ever you want.
lol NDAs for mods...yeah unless they pay you or become AAA developing company next month, that's total bullshit wat the hell do modmakers think now ? back in the days we would just start a mod as a group of people and have fun, not simulates some shitty company business, you bet you'd have to pay me to have to endure shitty management, retarded decisions and ego flattering of the "idea guy" but HEY that sounds a lot like a real studio actually...
if they want to play it big they have to pay you.
some people should really lose their ego and start doing real stuff...if they don't want, it'll be much better for you to just directly work for your own portfolio without any wannabe art director barely out of high school to teach you how to make models.
note : I have NOTHING against mods, I've been parts of mods when I started, even had a big part in one, but man back in the days, there was nothing like that bullshit.
Well we on airborn are working out a contract too, but just to make sure, that everyone is treated fair.
Everyone can take his work for his own portfolio but grants us as a team to use it as an asset for the mod.
Its useless to demand all exclusive rights as long as the one doing the work can't get payed in any way.
I was thinking about mod NDAs quite recently, as one mod I'm hoping to join, requires you to sign the NDA before being allowed access to the FTP and level assets. This I think is fair enough, as they're providing levels, assets and information that has been created over a prolonged period of time and protects them from art/idea thieves joining for a week and then stealing them.
Another mod that I was interested in required you to sign the NDA straight away, before really going to any great depth into what the mod was about. I stayed well clear.
It seems that a lot of mods, well some I know of, deem themselves professional studios. They have a production name, which suddenly makes them act like corporate entities. They aren't paying anyone, but are promising a cut of the royalties and in some cases almost promising full time employment. Full time employment based on the success of the mod, this is a good way to get yuor minions to work hard for the idea man. Some mods are good, professional places to better your skills and have fun, some take themselves far too seriously.
Valandars comment is the strongest here. Forget the substance for now, you were informed that you were needing to sign an "NDA", what you posted isn't an NDA, so they got you to sign a full blown contract (looks like a copy/paste job to me as all it does is define 'language' rather than 'property') by fraudulantly telling you it was an NDA.
Obviously, nothing you read above from me or anyone else above is NOT, NEVER was, IS NOT meant to be, construed as legal advice *cough*
my response would be suck on deez nutz. do you seriously think this dude will go to the trouble of hiring a lawyer and attempting to track you down and create an international lawsuit? that would cost him thousands of dollars to even get it started and seeing as a mod makes no income how would he ever prove damages and recoupe any money. its just some cockaius trying to bully you.
Thats a huge amount of replies, I can clearly sense that everybody here feels the same way as I do.
I am indecisive about this situation, I wish to expose this at MSU and epic forums too.
But I received news not coming from my mouth, but from their own.
That Warmgun mod * started a company called emotional robots, claiming that to have opened a studio in Niagara Falls.
If they the resources to open a studio..... why not hire some lawyer and stir shit up.
As a person who's been all around the modding scene for about 8 1/2 years now.
The only thing they can do is bitch at you for doing so and so. If profit is not involved with any copyright ownership that states it's a company, and this is not a company. They cannot do a damn thing to you and you're work.
It's understandable if it's a mod team undergoing NDA agreements to the (Game companies SDK) for early testing. But a mod team alone cannot do anything more than to ask you not to show you're work.
Personally if I knew that this person had lived anywhere near me. I'd probably go to this person's place and slash their tires for being a douche bag.
First I admire you work, I was searching for postal 3 information.
I came across your folio, it's kickass.
Right now I cannot argue with the parasites due fact they claim to have resources to actually start a war.
This changes the situation to a different level especially with upcoming MSU.
Valandars comment is the strongest here. Forget the substance for now, you were informed that you were needing to sign an "NDA", what you posted isn't an NDA, so they got you to sign a full blown contract (looks like a copy/paste job to me as all it does is define 'language' rather than 'property') by fraudulantly telling you it was an NDA.
Obviously, nothing you read above from me or anyone else above is NOT, NEVER was, IS NOT meant to be, construed as legal advice *cough*
I thought for a long time, that NDA's and contracts were 2 different thingies.
But I am not sure.
Well, i am no lawyer, but in essence i think they are both "contracts" you have your non disclosure agreement, and you have your employment contract. I think these are more general terms for types of contracts, than anything more. I think either could contain any sort of legal mumbojumbo, as long as it is actually legal, and applicable to the situation. But the main thing, is there is No client/company, and there is no employee, because money never switched hands.
They are two different things, you can be quite sure and firm about that; an NDA is basically a "gag order" and nothing more "thou shalt not talk, expose, transit any information regard this project on pain of a good spanking by Britney Spears whilst in her 'bad' period".
A contract is a completely different beast that apparently needs to meet 4 'conditions' in order for it to be 'legal' (I nearly wrote 'lawful' but that has nothing to do with it ), can't remember what those are off the top of my head.
Anyway, unless the contact explicitly says it's retroactive I suspect that any work you *had* done can be considered to have been done under difference *agreed upon* terms and conditions so that can't be included in such a broad and all encompassing script as you originally posted.
Again, this is NOT legal advice, I don't wear a suit and I try not to lie to people
It's a mod that you made art for... The art is yours dude.
NDA stands for Non Disclosure Agreement. It's meant for you to sign to keep your lips sealed and not share the artwork before you release. Nothing else.
If you don't already have one buy a domain or get a great portfolio up somewhere. Fill it with your original art that is better than their edits. Share your art around. You'll make them look like thieves and fools in front of their online peers. Done.
edit: dude. they fucking BLACKMAILED you into signing a contract. are you fucking kidding me? Get legal advice, but i'm quite sure that this contract wouldn't hold up for SHIT anywhere in the world.
Hey guys, help me with something.
7. Ownership
The Independent Contractor hereby acknowledges that, as between itself and the Client, the
Client is and shall remain the sole owner of all right, title and interest in the Confidential
Information, including, but not limited to any and all rights in copyright, patent, trade secret and
trade mark, and the Confidential Information and all copies thereof which are supplied to the
Independent Contractor by the Client shall be held in trust by the Independent Contractor for the
benefit of the Client only.
okay so the client will remain the owner of all the CONFIDENCIAL information, which is defined in PARAGRAPH 1.
yes? so lets see what paragraph one says:
1. Definitions
(a) "Confidential Information" means material in the possession of the Client which is
not generally available to or used by others or the utility or value of which is not
generally known or recognized as standard practice, whether or not the underlying
details are in the public domain, including, without limitation, all Business
Information, Computer Software and Computer Technology whether patentable,
copyrightable or not, which is acquired or developed by or on behalf of the Client
from time to time.
so that would include work acquired by the client.
however, there's no definition of "acquired" -- he's working as a volunteer and automatically retains full ownership of his stuff. so unless i'm mistaken, they haven't aquired shit.
also, Vredesbyrd, did you not post the whole contract? there doesn't seem to be a section that defines the parties. This idea that you're an "independant contractor" sounds like bullshit
also, and xenobond pointed out, you could probably claim BAD FAITH on this one.
honestly it sounds like they're trying to scare you. go get legal advice if you like, but i doubt very seriously that they would win shit in a coart case.
Its getting complicated.
I am part of the Haunted MOD , phase 2 winner of MSU.
I wish to merge the content I made for these parasites with Haunted MOD.
DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
If you do this they can sue and take your MSU prizes. You will get fucked out of that stuff and open your team up to liability.
Seriously, if you do that, it both gives them a legitimate reason to go after you (you're profiting directly from work they now own) and assets for them to seize (the prizes).
DO post your work on your portfolio and tell him to get fucked. There is very little risk in doing that, because there is no monetary gain for them and thus the court fees of actually trying to test their weak-ass contract in court will keep them from fucking with you.
Chalk it up to a learning experience, use it in your portfolio, and make better stuff for the MSU contest mod.
didn't read through everything so I may have missed it.
Are those models based on concepts provided by them or completely "invented" and created by you?
Seriously, you should not wait to go to the moddb administrators and state your claim,
the least you can do is establish that this is totally innappropriate, and should be eradicated for the next comp.
Also to counter the douche newbs on the forum/comments on those pages, you should posess adequate wip, and final work files of all the models, not just the ones you gave the 'producer' to prove your case.
Make documentation of all communications, emails and forum replys/comments i.e:
"His work is apart of this "MOD" I will not be taking anything down...your name is credited on each of the models and what we do with them is our business now.
You signed an NDA"
as for you wish to swap mod teams - go wherever you want to, but regarding re-using the same assets - i'd look down upon that, perhaps basemeshes would be ok, but you seem a talented enough artist, just think of the stuff you did as prractice, and the next batch twice as awesome!
They tell me I cannot use the work, I build for portfolio.
If it's already been shown in media releases, fuck them and throw it on the folio. Otherwise it is polite to wait, because one of the main ways mods garner attention is through media releases. However, it is unlikely to impact them that much if you show it anyway, so if you really want to, go for it.
I have plans to use the content I build that mod with a existing mod.
If I read this right, you're saying you want to take assets you created for one mod, and use them in another mod. This is a bit unscrupulous, and I wouldn't do it.
Tom knows contract law! You're in the clear on two counts:
1) You can't present a contract in bad faith. He gave you a contract that is entitled "Non-Disclosure Agreement." It's beyond a reasonable expectation that an inexperienced person (you) would expect an NDA to terminate your copyright. He didn't give you a Work For Hire contract, but something that should pertain entirely to communication. This is why it's not legal to trick little old ladies into signing away their life savings - even having a signature on paper does not justify a bad faith agreement.
2) You can't prosecute an unconscionable contract. If a contract is horribly lopsided and/or the contractor is using his position to force a concession, it's called an unconscionable contract and is essentially impossible to enforce. As I understand it, you were asked to sign over your copyright in exchange for absolutely nothing - is that correct? If he'd given you even a dollar for the work, it could be considered a fair trade, but something-for-nothing deals are generally recognized as unfair. Read and see if it applies to your case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
Beyond that, it's key that this is not a property or monetary exchange. The mod guy can't sue you for damages because a) he didn't pay you and b) it doesn't cost him anything. Honestly, even if you got dragged to court (an impossibility), what could he possibly sue you for?
That said, however... I'm not a fan of recycling your work from mod A and slipping it into mod B. Yeah, it's your work, but it is a bit of a dickish move to do that. Forget contracts and just put yourself in the other guy's shoes - how'd you like to be chugging along on a mod and have one of your primo art guys yank his stuff so he can try to cash in with a bigger team? Even if it's legal, it sucks. Also, you have serious skills; isn't it better for the new mod if you make something specifically for them, custom to their theme, rather than recycle something you did for another gig? Yeah, takes more time and all, but it's probably the right thing to do.
@Ghostscape/achmed/kaskad.
THanks don't worry about, I already building some exclusive content for the new Haunted Map.
I will show when it's done.
@Vermillion.
Tom knows contract law!
This is a breakthrough, I fully trust your advice.
Good work and many thanks.
I will use your argument against their because it sounds intimidating and it deceit clearly.
Thanks again/
Just to make it clear: DO NOT take the artwork you've done for Mod A and
give it to Mod B to use. This A.) Makes you look like a douche-bag, and B.)
Will only add fuel to the fire.
You're a great artist. Do new artwork for Mod B, and take the artwork for
Mod A and put it in your portfolio and move on.
EDIT: It'd be appreciated if you could pass on the information of this
mod-team thats put you in this position. (Links to their site, etc). I'd like
to Blacklist them from Polycount for pulling this kind of shit.
i call this nda bullshit...
as others pointed out, copyrights and such don´t belong into nda´s.
nda´s basically just tell you to stfu about your work and keep the things inaccsessable to 3rd parties.
and why the heck did you sign that thing in first place anyway, if you wouldnt even get a piece of toast for it.
at the first glance that they tried putting pressure on you i´d back the fark off.
was it only the nda you signed? which would be rather strange.
working on some simulators for the army i had to sign some nda´s but they usually were due after a regular working contract witht the company was made.
but as adam says, move on.
you made a mistake, hopefully you learned from it.
Just to make it clear: DO NOT take the artwork you've done for Mod A and
give it to Mod B to use. This A.) Makes you look like a douche-bag, and B.)
Will only add fuel to the fire.
You're a great artist. Do new artwork for Mod B, and take the artwork for
Mod A and put it in your portfolio and move on.
EDIT: It'd be appreciated if you could pass on the information of this
mod-team thats put you in this position. (Links to their site, etc). I'd like
to Blacklist them from Polycount for pulling this kind of shit.
The textures are horrible tho. I'd say Vredesbyrd's art is clearly the one standing out in that mod after seeing other characters and props. And it's the UT2k3 engine, i'm pretty sure it comes with a water shader.
Anyway, I think it has all been said, i just wanted to say that this whole situation is rather sad.
I believe that you can take the models you designed wherever you want to, the ones based on other people's concepts, not so.
You would show good character by not bringing them to the other mod as has been said, but the warm gun mod should be perfectly aware that trying to pull off a scam like that NDA makes them (or him) look like a bunch of halfwits.
If I was them, i'd shut up, hide in shame, burn the NDAs and not speak of it ever again... and perhaps even apologize for trying to scam people.
The only place he'll be a managing or producing anything will be one wher they flip burgers.
@adam
You have my word, I won't merge content from mod A to mod B, I won't re-use anything I made for Warmgun.
I will make exclusive content for Haunted only.
I would appreciate it if you blacklisted the mod called Warmgun.
@ Joseph Cleary, Kevin Nelson, Brian Shipp.
Joseph Cleary the Founder of the MOD/ self proclaimed CEO, he is deleting all my post.
If you read this, JOE. I would happily donate the work to the modding community, free of charge.
Just don't exploit this generosity for your personal gain.
Tell me JC did you draw those concepts?
Who did the models, who did the concepts, who did the textures?
Can you actually show us what you have actually developement/worked on?
Can you show me the adres of the Lawyer you hired to sue me?
If you haven't actually developed anything why trick the artist in signing a NDA that gives away the ownership of the committed work.
You claim full to have full ownership of the hard work the artist/coders/ have put in this game, can you show any proof.
You're telling me I have to negiotiate and ask your permission with what I do with my own work?
If you wish to claim ownership of my models/textures/concepts, then you have to pay for them.
Having previously worked on this mod and with Vred for quite some time I figured I would add my two cents on the matter. Another perspective if you will.
First of all nobody ever said work could not be used in your portfolio. This was asked by numerous new members over the months and the answer was always "Sure, yeah go for it, no problem" etc.
The guy running the mod was also trying to help out some of the members by giving them a few bucks here and there for some of their work, nothing big, it was a sort of incentive or appreciation. This was not a funded project and we didnt have to get paid, he could have just said fuck it and let us keep working for nothing.
This turned out not to be a good idea as many of the members started getting money hungry and demanding money for everything. I vividly remember Vred demanding upwards of $3,000 for one of his character models. That was obviously out of the question and that is when I remember him blowing a gasket and eventually leaving. He also proceeded to talk most of the people into leaving the group with him.
Listen, Vred was a problem from the get go. He joined this mod once and ended up leaving because he would constantly berate younger artists not as knowledgable as himself. When someone asked a question in the chat rooms he would actually get pissed off at them for having the gull to ask him something. I woke up many mornings to chat logs of him ripping people a new one for asking questions like "Anyone know why my model is getting destroyed when I export it into unreal?"
In the end he was a pain the ass to work with, people were afraid to ask questions for fear of verbal beatings and tried to leave as much destruction in his wake as he possibly could. Before I ended up leaving due to school he pretty much single handedly managed to break the entire team up.
The guys who ran that mod were great guys, they were not the demon gods that this guy makes them out to be, half of the things he has said are flat out lies. Take from this what you will but what I said was the Gods honest truth from my eyes. If anyone is the "Parasite" as Vred so beautifully put it, it is him.
You should try harder covering this scam up, next time post your real name.
I never asked 3000 Canadian Dollars, I asked 4 million dollars and his house and his car.
I am not a pain the ass, I am a HUGE pain in the asshole.
You know you experienced it.
My name is Kimman, aka vredesbryd.
Don't call me Vred.
The guy who run the mods are great guys, I agree.
Forcing people to sign shady NDA's giving their copyright away for nothing.
And don't forget to suck on deez nutz.
Replies
Thats for an indie game, but a mod is near enough the same... Your work is your work, and unless the guy paid you for said work, its yours. He doesn't own a thing, you do. You could tell him, right now, to eat a dick and take your work with you. Yes it would be rude and yes, in mean spirit... But the team should really be asking you to publish your work on your portfolio, after all, it gives them extra hits...
I can understand why he wouldn't want the work in any other mod or game, thats his right and I'm sure he asked you that. The work you produce for anybody thats too a set specification (i.e. his design) means that its for... his design. I can understand if all he has said is that he doesn't want the work showing up in any other mod or game, because I would feel the same. Something that makes the game feel how you wanted it to be, being shown in ANOTHER mod, thats just bad...
Long story short, until they pay up any cash you own the rights to your work, and you CAN put it anywhere you want. They should be giving you all the support in the world for you to get those models shown on your portfolio, its YOUR WORK, your PORTFOLIO. But allowing these models, something so specific, to be in ANOTHER mod is bad taste on your part, and I really think it quite rude, in a way. Yes they are yours, but mate, you made them for a certain something....
http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose
loooooooooool
If your team told you "this is a NDA" and they "hide" additional contractual bindings in there it's a form of mislead and if they ever think they can screw you with that, every lawyor will beat the crap out of them. Go ahead, use your stuff for whatever you want to use it and tell them they are free to use it in the form it has been when you left and modify it if they want BUT ONLY for that specific project (you give them right to use your content on the specific product, nothing else - if the guy starts another mod he's not allowed to use it again). That way they get a pretty good deal after all and you can use your stuff for what ever you want.
(awesome work btw!)
if they want to play it big they have to pay you.
some people should really lose their ego and start doing real stuff...if they don't want, it'll be much better for you to just directly work for your own portfolio without any wannabe art director barely out of high school to teach you how to make models.
note : I have NOTHING against mods, I've been parts of mods when I started, even had a big part in one, but man back in the days, there was nothing like that bullshit.
Everyone can take his work for his own portfolio but grants us as a team to use it as an asset for the mod.
Its useless to demand all exclusive rights as long as the one doing the work can't get payed in any way.
Good luck with the MSU contest!
Another mod that I was interested in required you to sign the NDA straight away, before really going to any great depth into what the mod was about. I stayed well clear.
It seems that a lot of mods, well some I know of, deem themselves professional studios. They have a production name, which suddenly makes them act like corporate entities. They aren't paying anyone, but are promising a cut of the royalties and in some cases almost promising full time employment. Full time employment based on the success of the mod, this is a good way to get yuor minions to work hard for the idea man. Some mods are good, professional places to better your skills and have fun, some take themselves far too seriously.
Obviously, nothing you read above from me or anyone else above is NOT, NEVER was, IS NOT meant to be, construed as legal advice *cough*
Why not do both?
yes
Thats a huge amount of replies, I can clearly sense that everybody here feels the same way as I do.
I am indecisive about this situation, I wish to expose this at MSU and epic forums too.
But I received news not coming from my mouth, but from their own.
That Warmgun mod * started a company called emotional robots, claiming that to have opened a studio in Niagara Falls.
If they the resources to open a studio..... why not hire some lawyer and stir shit up.
Click on the link.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/warm-gun
http://forums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=587586&page=23
This news has changed the situation to another whole new level.
They claim to be a mod, that has plans on going retail.
Before I proceed, I need solid legal advice before i post any slander towards Warmgun,
And I wish to know who has ruined my gatling gun with that horrible texture.
Validating the shady N.D.A they proposed to me, is something I leave to potential lawyer if this cannot be solved on a morale manner.
First I admire you work, I was searching for postal 3 information.
I came across your folio, it's kickass.
Right now I cannot argue with the parasites due fact they claim to have resources to actually start a war.
This changes the situation to a different level especially with upcoming MSU.
I thought for a long time, that NDA's and contracts were 2 different thingies.
But I am not sure.
A contract is a completely different beast that apparently needs to meet 4 'conditions' in order for it to be 'legal' (I nearly wrote 'lawful' but that has nothing to do with it
Anyway, unless the contact explicitly says it's retroactive I suspect that any work you *had* done can be considered to have been done under difference *agreed upon* terms and conditions so that can't be included in such a broad and all encompassing script as you originally posted.
Again, this is NOT legal advice, I don't wear a suit and I try not to lie to people
[EDIT] +what EQ said
NDA stands for Non Disclosure Agreement. It's meant for you to sign to keep your lips sealed and not share the artwork before you release. Nothing else.
If you don't already have one buy a domain or get a great portfolio up somewhere. Fill it with your original art that is better than their edits. Share your art around. You'll make them look like thieves and fools in front of their online peers. Done.
Ah, perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. NDA for a modgroup that's claiming ownership?
Dudes work is good, dude shouldn't be getting fucked around by some non-profit group, but should be getting paid to make artwork.
Hey guys, help me with something.
okay so the client will remain the owner of all the CONFIDENCIAL information, which is defined in PARAGRAPH 1.
yes? so lets see what paragraph one says:
so that would include work acquired by the client.
however, there's no definition of "acquired" -- he's working as a volunteer and automatically retains full ownership of his stuff. so unless i'm mistaken, they haven't aquired shit.
also, Vredesbyrd, did you not post the whole contract? there doesn't seem to be a section that defines the parties. This idea that you're an "independant contractor" sounds like bullshit
also, and xenobond pointed out, you could probably claim BAD FAITH on this one.
honestly it sounds like they're trying to scare you. go get legal advice if you like, but i doubt very seriously that they would win shit in a coart case.
DO NOT DO THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
If you do this they can sue and take your MSU prizes. You will get fucked out of that stuff and open your team up to liability.
Seriously, if you do that, it both gives them a legitimate reason to go after you (you're profiting directly from work they now own) and assets for them to seize (the prizes).
DO post your work on your portfolio and tell him to get fucked. There is very little risk in doing that, because there is no monetary gain for them and thus the court fees of actually trying to test their weak-ass contract in court will keep them from fucking with you.
Chalk it up to a learning experience, use it in your portfolio, and make better stuff for the MSU contest mod.
didn't read through everything so I may have missed it.
Are those models based on concepts provided by them or completely "invented" and created by you?
the least you can do is establish that this is totally innappropriate, and should be eradicated for the next comp.
Also to counter the douche newbs on the forum/comments on those pages, you should posess adequate wip, and final work files of all the models, not just the ones you gave the 'producer' to prove your case.
Make documentation of all communications, emails and forum replys/comments i.e:
"His work is apart of this "MOD" I will not be taking anything down...your name is credited on each of the models and what we do with them is our business now.
You signed an NDA"
as for you wish to swap mod teams - go wherever you want to, but regarding re-using the same assets - i'd look down upon that, perhaps basemeshes would be ok, but you seem a talented enough artist, just think of the stuff you did as prractice, and the next batch twice as awesome!
meh.
If it's already been shown in media releases, fuck them and throw it on the folio. Otherwise it is polite to wait, because one of the main ways mods garner attention is through media releases. However, it is unlikely to impact them that much if you show it anyway, so if you really want to, go for it.
If I read this right, you're saying you want to take assets you created for one mod, and use them in another mod. This is a bit unscrupulous, and I wouldn't do it.
1) You can't present a contract in bad faith. He gave you a contract that is entitled "Non-Disclosure Agreement." It's beyond a reasonable expectation that an inexperienced person (you) would expect an NDA to terminate your copyright. He didn't give you a Work For Hire contract, but something that should pertain entirely to communication. This is why it's not legal to trick little old ladies into signing away their life savings - even having a signature on paper does not justify a bad faith agreement.
2) You can't prosecute an unconscionable contract. If a contract is horribly lopsided and/or the contractor is using his position to force a concession, it's called an unconscionable contract and is essentially impossible to enforce. As I understand it, you were asked to sign over your copyright in exchange for absolutely nothing - is that correct? If he'd given you even a dollar for the work, it could be considered a fair trade, but something-for-nothing deals are generally recognized as unfair. Read and see if it applies to your case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability
Beyond that, it's key that this is not a property or monetary exchange. The mod guy can't sue you for damages because a) he didn't pay you and b) it doesn't cost him anything. Honestly, even if you got dragged to court (an impossibility), what could he possibly sue you for?
That said, however... I'm not a fan of recycling your work from mod A and slipping it into mod B. Yeah, it's your work, but it is a bit of a dickish move to do that. Forget contracts and just put yourself in the other guy's shoes - how'd you like to be chugging along on a mod and have one of your primo art guys yank his stuff so he can try to cash in with a bigger team? Even if it's legal, it sucks. Also, you have serious skills; isn't it better for the new mod if you make something specifically for them, custom to their theme, rather than recycle something you did for another gig? Yeah, takes more time and all, but it's probably the right thing to do.
that's clear language for how i'm feeling.
Some concepts are mine, some concepts belong to other artist who also have signed that N.D.A.
Their work is also being copyrighted.
@Helixx
You know what time it is.
@Ghostscape/achmed/kaskad.
THanks don't worry about, I already building some exclusive content for the new Haunted Map.
I will show when it's done.
@Vermillion.
Tom knows contract law!
This is a breakthrough, I fully trust your advice.
Good work and many thanks.
I will use your argument against their because it sounds intimidating and it deceit clearly.
Thanks again/
Yes it's correct.
give it to Mod B to use. This A.) Makes you look like a douche-bag, and B.)
Will only add fuel to the fire.
You're a great artist. Do new artwork for Mod B, and take the artwork for
Mod A and put it in your portfolio and move on.
EDIT: It'd be appreciated if you could pass on the information of this
mod-team thats put you in this position. (Links to their site, etc). I'd like
to Blacklist them from Polycount for pulling this kind of shit.
as others pointed out, copyrights and such don´t belong into nda´s.
nda´s basically just tell you to stfu about your work and keep the things inaccsessable to 3rd parties.
and why the heck did you sign that thing in first place anyway, if you wouldnt even get a piece of toast for it.
at the first glance that they tried putting pressure on you i´d back the fark off.
was it only the nda you signed? which would be rather strange.
working on some simulators for the army i had to sign some nda´s but they usually were due after a regular working contract witht the company was made.
but as adam says, move on.
you made a mistake, hopefully you learned from it.
heres the mod:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/warm-gun
And to think I stopped someone from flaming them on my boards... :poly124:
EDIT: wow they got an old voiceover guy and everything!
Anyway, I think it has all been said, i just wanted to say that this whole situation is rather sad.
I believe that you can take the models you designed wherever you want to, the ones based on other people's concepts, not so.
You would show good character by not bringing them to the other mod as has been said, but the warm gun mod should be perfectly aware that trying to pull off a scam like that NDA makes them (or him) look like a bunch of halfwits.
If I was them, i'd shut up, hide in shame, burn the NDAs and not speak of it ever again... and perhaps even apologize for trying to scam people.
The only place he'll be a managing or producing anything will be one wher they flip burgers.
@adam
You have my word, I won't merge content from mod A to mod B, I won't re-use anything I made for Warmgun.
I will make exclusive content for Haunted only.
I would appreciate it if you blacklisted the mod called Warmgun.
Some early wip content for Haunted-MOD.
Alot of things to replace : skydome, the trees, lightning , blingblingbillboard
http://g.imagehost.org/0790/rakshaha.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/view/0216/nonamek
http://g.imagehost.org/0651/3_29.jpg
http://g.imagehost.org/0780/2_1.jpg
@ Joseph Cleary, Kevin Nelson, Brian Shipp.
Joseph Cleary the Founder of the MOD/ self proclaimed CEO, he is deleting all my post.
If you read this, JOE.
I would happily donate the work to the modding community, free of charge.
Just don't exploit this generosity for your personal gain.
Tell me JC did you draw those concepts?
Who did the models, who did the concepts, who did the textures?
Can you actually show us what you have actually developement/worked on?
Can you show me the adres of the Lawyer you hired to sue me?
If you haven't actually developed anything why trick the artist in signing a NDA that gives away the ownership of the committed work.
You claim full to have full ownership of the hard work the artist/coders/ have put in this game, can you show any proof.
You're telling me I have to negiotiate and ask your permission with what I do with my own work?
If you wish to claim ownership of my models/textures/concepts, then you have to pay for them.
@stirling/strangefate/pixelmasher/dejawolf/nynedown/adam/and everybody else.
Thanks for the kind words, will see where the ship strands when I completed my portfolio 2009.
If i am lucky I will obtain a position at the end of the summer.
First of all nobody ever said work could not be used in your portfolio. This was asked by numerous new members over the months and the answer was always "Sure, yeah go for it, no problem" etc.
The guy running the mod was also trying to help out some of the members by giving them a few bucks here and there for some of their work, nothing big, it was a sort of incentive or appreciation. This was not a funded project and we didnt have to get paid, he could have just said fuck it and let us keep working for nothing.
This turned out not to be a good idea as many of the members started getting money hungry and demanding money for everything. I vividly remember Vred demanding upwards of $3,000 for one of his character models. That was obviously out of the question and that is when I remember him blowing a gasket and eventually leaving. He also proceeded to talk most of the people into leaving the group with him.
Listen, Vred was a problem from the get go. He joined this mod once and ended up leaving because he would constantly berate younger artists not as knowledgable as himself. When someone asked a question in the chat rooms he would actually get pissed off at them for having the gull to ask him something. I woke up many mornings to chat logs of him ripping people a new one for asking questions like "Anyone know why my model is getting destroyed when I export it into unreal?"
In the end he was a pain the ass to work with, people were afraid to ask questions for fear of verbal beatings and tried to leave as much destruction in his wake as he possibly could. Before I ended up leaving due to school he pretty much single handedly managed to break the entire team up.
The guys who ran that mod were great guys, they were not the demon gods that this guy makes them out to be, half of the things he has said are flat out lies. Take from this what you will but what I said was the Gods honest truth from my eyes. If anyone is the "Parasite" as Vred so beautifully put it, it is him.
I never asked 3000 Canadian Dollars, I asked 4 million dollars and his house and his car.
I am not a pain the ass, I am a HUGE pain in the asshole.
You know you experienced it.
My name is Kimman, aka vredesbryd.
Don't call me Vred.
The guy who run the mods are great guys, I agree.
Forcing people to sign shady NDA's giving their copyright away for nothing.
And don't forget to suck on deez nutz.
yup.