WIP Gun: NewB Needs Help!
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Hey guys, I have been working a lot on characters and I feel it time for me to make a proper gun.
From being around these forums a little while, I know PC is loaded with knowledgeable people in regards to firearms, so I figured it would be in my best interest to get some help from the start.
So yes, I know very little about guns and I was wondering if anyone has suggestions about what specific gun would be a good choice.
I'm basically looking to make a cool looking gun that actually exists in real life for a character. I would like it to be a challenging gun to model and of course something I will be able to get many references of.
Doing a google image search I was thinking about doing a modified desert eagle or modified Benelli M4. However, this has probably been done to death already, and I'm not sure if they would be that interesting.
So if anyone can rattle off the name of some guns that fit what I am looking for it would be a big help.
From being around these forums a little while, I know PC is loaded with knowledgeable people in regards to firearms, so I figured it would be in my best interest to get some help from the start.
So yes, I know very little about guns and I was wondering if anyone has suggestions about what specific gun would be a good choice.
I'm basically looking to make a cool looking gun that actually exists in real life for a character. I would like it to be a challenging gun to model and of course something I will be able to get many references of.
Doing a google image search I was thinking about doing a modified desert eagle or modified Benelli M4. However, this has probably been done to death already, and I'm not sure if they would be that interesting.
So if anyone can rattle off the name of some guns that fit what I am looking for it would be a big help.
Replies
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ETA: Nm. . . apparently the greatest gun database on the net is down.
ETA2: It's back!
Can you be more specific as to what type of gun you'd like? (Pistol, SMG, Assault Rifle, Sniper, etc.)
Also, check out www.autoweapons.com they sell class III weapons, and take a lot of good pictures.
Pistols:
FN Five-SeveN (base for latest BSG pistol)
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg18-e.htm
HK VP70 (Single Shot pistol, 3 rnd burst with the stock attached)
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg84-e.htm
*Sig 232/230
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg115-e.htm
Beretta 93R (Base for Robocop's gun)
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg137-e.htm
Beretta PX4 Storm
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg149-e.htm
*Vektor SP1
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg30-e.htm
Vektor CP1
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg54-e.htm
SMGs:
OWEN (Crazy Aussies)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg65-e.htm
Steyr TMP
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg11-e.htm
HK UMP
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg16-e.htm
*M4 Spectre
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg21-e.htm
PPSH-41
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg02-e.htm
Sterling L2A3 (Storm Trooper Blaster)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg28-e.htm
*Colt 633 (Used to guard Nuclear Power plants in the 80's)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg35-e.htm
Calico M100 (.22 caliber 100 round helical magazine. . . weird!)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm
*TDI Kriss Super V (pretty much brand new, and very cool)
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg96-e.htm
Beretta ARX-160
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as90-e.htm
Tavor TAR-21 (New Israeli rifle, replacing the M16 in their arsenal)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as30-e.htm
*AKS-74U (Short AK used by Spetznaz)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as03-e.htm
*Ruger AC-556K (GO A-TEAM!)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as37-e.htm
XM8 (you know. . . if you like fish)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as61-e.htm
OICW (Grenade Launcher/Assault Rifle combo, but big, ugly, and hard to carry from what I hear)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm
FN SCAR (FN's answer for a call for an M16 replacement)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm
*Z-M LR-300 (Gas Piston operated M4 variant)
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as97-e.htm
FN F2000
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as41-e.htm
Shotguns:
*Benelli M4 (sounds like you already know of this one)
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh19-e.htm
Franchi Spas-15
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh06-e.htm
Saiga 12 (basically a 12 gauge AK)
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm
USAS-12 (ugly as sin, but kind of cool)
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh16-e.htm
Jackhammer (horrible failure of a gun, but looks neat)
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh10-e.htm
*HK 21 (belt fed G3)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg18-e.htm
AAT M.52
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg09-e.htm
*CIS 50 MG (dual fed)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg05-e.htm
Lewis (check out the Vickers for more water cooled weirdness)
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg66-e.htm
GD LW50MG
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg71-e.htm
Sniper Rifles:
DSR 50
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn85-e.htm
AI AS50
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn67-e.htm
Mechem NTW-20
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn55-e.htm
*DSR-1
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn38-e.htm
*CheyTac LRRS (Long Range Rifle System) (Also check out the CheyTac M200)
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn63-e.htm
VSS 'Vintorez' (Silenced)
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm
* - Tumerboy's personal favorites!
Hope that helps :P
Or SA80, yeah I'm British kit biased lol.
Personally I would go with the FN-Scar, which is slated to replace M4 of the US military and is already fielded by Spec. operations forces such as the SEALs. Plus it just looks sweet. The SCAR comes in two main versions as well so pick the one you like best ( SCAR-L, or light, fires the US Standared calibre 5.56mm round that is the same calibre as the M16 while the SCAR-H, or heavy, fires a 7.62 nato round used by most European countries and most of the world.
Theres also a ton of referances for the SCAR as well.
If you where really desperate you could always buy a airsoft or cheap replica as well. I've done it a few times and find that it helps immensely in figuring out shapes.
Check out every H&K ever created over at: www.hkpro.com
I'm a huge fan of H&K because their designs and silhouettes are sleek and clean, colt/armalite (m16 family) are very bumpy and gnarly looking
This rifle currently holds the record for longest confirmed sniper kill in the world (over 2000 meters)
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-rifles-tactical-tac-50.php
You'll notice there are a number of doodads that are consistent on every gun rifle, fire/safety selector, ejection port, magazine release, buttstock lock to collapse a stock.
Also, all guns are strippable into base components without any tools at all, so there are doodads to press on to do that.
Tumerboy: Man, your the best! I probably owe you a whole case of beer at this point.
DannyLad: The GPMG is really cool.
SnowGhost: Sounds like you really know your stuff. Thanks for the suggestion.
Zwebbie: Yeah, I have modeled about 6 guns in the past and I know exactly what you are talking about. Thanks for the advice man.
Well, I was picturing a character holding the gun in one hand sort of casual (at his side pointing at the ground) but I wanted the gun to be really cool and sort of complex.
So I'm going to go with the: "TDI Kriss Super V" that Tumerboy suggested.
Since its brand new, it probably hasn't been done much, and the shapes and color scheme of it make it really sweet.
I'll be getting to work on modeling the TDI Kriss Super V right away. Thanks to everyone, especially Tumerbody
The middle part there has a magazine at the front of it (you can see the baseplate at the bottom) and then behind the magazine is where the bolt retracts into as it fires. Because the bolt moves downwards as it retracts, rather than straight back, it reduces the recoil a lot. Pretty cool design.
I can't stand the host of this show, but you'll see how it works, and some pretty good shots of it:
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http://www.kriss-tdi.com/
http://www.impactguns.com/store/tdi_kriss.html
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=118996&highlight=kriss
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103355&highlight=kriss
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105912&highlight=kriss
Also, while Zwebbie's right that sometimes it can be more difficult to find pictures/information on more exotic weapons, you usually just need to know where to look. So, if any of you ever have issues finding good shots of a gun you're working on, let me know. But here's some places to start:
www.militaryphotos.net
www.ar15.com
www.thehighroad.org
ETA: Oh, also www.gunbroker.com It's the Ebay of the gun world, and while, like ebay, many sellers take horrible pictures, you do find a few good ones, and it's certainly an easy place to search for whatever you're looking for.
http://www.pixagogo.com/DeicideNBF
Surfa: Yeah, that's an awesome site you linked me to there. I didn't see the Kriss on the list but for future projects I'll look it up for sure.
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=49290
http://adrianzamora.carbonmade.com/projects/75305#3
Skeptical Nate: Hey, thanks for pointing me to these great models. It sort of sets the bar high for me, but it's definitely a good thing.
I think I'm at a good place to post my current status. I blocked out the high poly and I am going to now give it a detail pass and break the symmetry I currently have. I'm having a lot of fun with this and quite pleased with the progress; but if anyone has crits for me that would be cool.
References:
HighPoly 50% done:
SlappyBag: Yeah, I have never seen any of this stuff in person, so I am sort of guessing on some stuff, and I know the orthographic picture I was using was warped for sure. I think the EOTech is better now with the slight adjustments I made.
Really small update here, just wanted to get the proportions sorted and the flashlight was looking crappy so I fixed that too.
http://bonez18b.deviantart.com/gallery/
A couple i've wanted to do for a while:
here's another polycounter that did it about a year ago: Mr. Broach
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=49290
he's got a lot of good critique that you could follow his progress with. Super good thread!
Brad, here's some shots of EOTechs. Keep in mind there are different sizes, but those mainly vary in the length of the batter compartment (bulge at the front)
Oh, also, check the profile on your flashlight. the bezel is pretty much flat, with steps, those little cut out indents are more angled instead:
Flowing the hype from my Aliens Scene, I'm doing the m41a pulse rifle from the movie!
Will open a thread with some WIPs of the HighPoly in a couple of days!
Keep up, the HighP is looking great Brad.
EarthQuake: Wow I love those concepts
Art-Machine: lol xD
You may already have that pic, but if not, maybe it can be helpful. Keep at it, man!
Pope Adam: Yup, Skeptical Nate already beat you to it, but thanks anyways.
Tumerboy: If I understood you correctly I think I fixed what you were talking about. Those references are really helpful btw.
[HP]: Thanks, good luck on your project dude.
HAL: Cool, Thanks.
8FTSpider: Yup I already had that one, but thanks for looking out man.
I think I'm done with the high poly. I sort of guessed a little on the ammo clip. My references are not the greatest for it and it might need to be longer; but I think the gun is looking alright now.
Note: I was using mainly the image 8FTSpider just posted and this one for references on the ammo clip:
So if the High poly is looking ok based on the crits here, I plan on making a few nice renders of this High Poly (X-Convict Style), and then moving onto the low poly and texturing. Please let me know if anything is still looking off.
But nothing which can't be fixed right?
Other than that looking really good.
Right, I'm gonna setup a render and see how it looks. I'll be back with updated images on the HP soon.
The bigger screws in the middle of each side are to adjust the windage & elevation of the sight itself, and are accessed through holes cut straight through the outer shell
And those larger screws are only on the right side, with a separate screw on the left, which is used to attach the sight to the rail. (sometimes it's a big thumb screw like above, and sometimes it's a small hex screw like below)
here's some shots of the magazine:
the Kriss runs off of Glock 21 magazines though, so you may have more luck searching for "Glock 21 magazine" than "Kriss magazine"
The rail on top (and underneath where the front vertical grip is) is a very precise standard on pretty much all weapons these days. It's called the picatinny rail, after the name of the New Jersey Arsenal where it was first tested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail
So I have some more fixes to make which Tumerboy pointed out, but here is a render I whipped up of the HighPoly. As I mentioned before I am basically following X-Convicts tutorial and I'm sure many are now familiar with it. Except I'm using an extra bluish light in the back sort of like a rim light and rendering AO also. (So, three lights in total: 1x skylight, 1x spotlight, and 1x omni bluish light in back)
However, I'm having some issues with the shadows coming from the spot light. The spot light is set to the default settings with shadows ON, and the shadow type is: "Shadow Map". Scanline Renderer + Catmul Rom. You will notice some pixelated looking shadows in the middle there. This is from that spot light I just mentioned.
Is there anything I can tick to fix this problem without resorting to using "Raytraced Shadows" or something like that, which is really expensive? Normally, I would just smudge it in PS, but there has to be a better way.
You will see what I am talking about in this render here:
I'll be starting the Low poly now, thanks for everyone's help thus far.
Very nice work man!
The front sight has a post in the middle, but the rear sight, like an Ar-15, has a ring. you sight by lining the center of the ring up with the top of the post in the front. I can't hotlink the photo because it's all flashified, but check it:
http://www.kriss-tdi.com/kriss-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl1&product_id=60&category_id=11
Frubes: Thanks for the reply. I understand you perfectly and I actually left the Hotspot alone as it wasn't really impacting the render (at least from what I could tell). Perhaps if I do a more extreme change between the hotspot and the overall spotlight it would help. I will have to re-render this now anyways since Tumerboy pointed out the mistake I made.
Tumerboy: Oh Crap! See I told you I am a total Newb when it comes to guns, ha ha. I got the photo, I guess I have to go back and fix this and re-render
this is the one you were talking about right? (I was able to link it for some wierd reaon)
http://www.kriss-tdi.com/kriss-store.html
Tumerboy: Very nice references! I probably would have never found them myself either. However, I think these are different sights than what comes standard with the kriss, because they don't seem to be the flip down type.
vvv(Babbling about sights)vvv
For example, if you take the round sight and imagine it at the rear of the gun where it should; from the left viewport the thumb screw should be on the far side. Meaning the side that says "Kriss Super V" facing the camera in the image here, should be the way the sight folds down (towards the front of the gun. This obviously isn't possible since there is no space for it to fold into.
Anyways, the way mine looks from the side probably isn't the way these sights really look, but I wanted to make them still fold down. But at least I have the circle sight and pointed sight in the right places this time, and I think it looks better overall.
Long story short, I'm calling the high poly done and the low poly will be done soon.
Here's the final High Poly:
Here is the low poly, I gave myself a 5,000 tri limit and it weighs in just under 5k atm. So... onto the unwrap.
Okay, I just finished the normals and AO and I'm about to begin the color and specular.
Also, you may notice that I added a few more tri's to help with the shading of the low poly, but there is a bullet in the clip (98 tri's) so its still sort of under 5,000 tri's. Just thought I would mention, but I'm really not all that concerned with strictly staying under 5,000 tris atm.
Tumerboy: If you read this, I was wondering what you use as a scratch brush for these kind of projects. I got a hold of all the photoshop brushes on that one thread here on Polycount, (including yours which are awesome). I'm just curious as to what you specifically recommend.
[Edit}
Just noticed that little white line on the back of that expansion chamber looking part (front handle). Anyways, the uvs were a little too close but I fixed that just now.