I'm one of those trying to get his shit together and finish a comp for once. I would gladly welcome a buddy or group to critique and be critiqued by on a regular basis.
What spark just said. I saw so many insanely awesome models but the presentation definitely killed their chances at getting the recognition they deserved. It's also an area where I need to focus more of my attention on.
maybe we need individual threads - stickies - for each 'stage' and if ur stuck at that stage reallll bad then u can post in those stickies with a 'help me please' post.
eg: low res; high res; baking; texturing; compositing; as different stickies
that way, the brilliant texture artist who wants to help can really focus on the ones stuck on textures, while the sculptors can help out those stuck with their high res meshes etc
streamline the assistance, added to the usual crits left in individual WiP threads.
I like the one-comment-a-day idea the most, especially early in the conceptual stage.
if the 'pros' can provide an early boost in morale and support, then that goes a long way.
cant wait till midnight tonight
im excited like craaazy
I have to admit, as one of those of us who NEED critique because we're not pro game artists, or longtime posters, when we post our entries and get little to no critique past a certain point, it gets rather disconcerting. I know it's not intentional - EVERYONE wants to see what MoP, or Bobo, or Rockstar come up with, and us plebes tend to be not as far out there.
The biggest problem regarding crits is not when you are a beginner, its when you pass that mile stone and graduate on to no mans land, not pro but not beginner either. Loads of us are at that stage where our work is just good enough to ignore. Probably because crits need to be more complex in our cases, its not a simple case of "do the joan of arc tuto" or look at this edge loop guide anymore. It needs the piece broken down and picked appart and often requires the dreaded start over crit. No one likes giving that crit but if its needed then not giving it is a bigger disservice.
Its the artists that can't quite get that wow factor that suffer in these things and its not that we don't try, we just don't know how. We have the fundamentals but lack the polish and experience to come up with an impressive piece. Beginners have it easy, the more they suck the more crits they usually get.
Hopefully all these ideas in here will make this year a great one.
This might dampen the whole YAY TEAM vibe, but the other side of this is learning to switch out of make make make mode, and step back and self-critique your work. So many threads in the past have thread owner posting updates haphazardly, waiting for any nudge in some direction, and feeling utterly lost when it doesn't come. It's easy, just take a breather, sit back, and view your work as someone else might, preferably a non-artist. It might be as small as "hmm the ribcage could be higher" or "oh wow that's REALLY BORING!". Red ring the things that annoy you, and you have yourself a little checklist of things to work on.
I mean, I'm amazed at how many people hinge their will to finish on how many crits they (don't?) receive. You make it easier for people to give critiques, if you bring your work to a level that's critique-able before posting.
Also, I think we should have a rendering and compositing thread. As personally this is where I bite the dust, and the only thing they consider.
Spark
Yes, this.
What's the tentative list of Sticky Threads we're after for the Dominance War?
Help! Paintovers for execution & flow, small design brainstorms, etc. + specific areas for critique that you may be after Rendering & Composition - Tips, tricks, techniques, suggestions and an overall sharking of knowledge for all things related to the final beauty shot(s). The Competition- this is where we post links/images of outstanding characters being made on other communities. If you're browsing around and see one, share it with us here.
Sweet! Rendering / composition would be really nice. I had my lighting rig available online that I did for my DW2 a few years back, I'd be happy to share that...though by now it's probably very dated and not so good What I remember from last year is that, like Spark said, it's where a lot of people fall short and, ultimately, is the initial thing that hits the judges. Poor lighting, awkward posing, weird composition can all throw a model's quality way off.
Brome, I would suggest adding the Tactics thread to that, or whatever we want to call it- post mortems of previous dom war entries, what went wrong/right etc- so people can learn from successful tecniques and avoid the many pitfalls. Each time brings quite a bit of experience, would be good to share it
I am a big fan of those 3 sticky threads; Help, rendering/comp, & Competition.
Hopefully people wouldn't spam the help thread and use it only when they hit a serious road block.
A type of post-Mortem thread would be most amazing if we had some veterans who where willing to type up their thoughts.
Yay polycount!
sounds great, I'm all over those threads, and I love the idea for Rendering and Composition, though I do think 99% of the renders will be in Marmoset or UE3 :P
Also, I think we should have a rendering and compositing thread. As personally this is where I bite the dust, and the only thing they consider.
Spark
Yeah, I meant to mention that.
Running through the entries to the mini comp there are quite a few entries that have great model, great texture and terrible presentation. I don't know if it'd be worth having another sticky for, but it does seem to be a real problem area - a lot of great work is going to miss out on recognition because after weeks of great work, the artist lacks the time or perhaps inclination to get that final layout looking schmick.
It's probably more of a time tabling thing than anything - people are leaving their final images until the last second and falling down because of it.
Just wondering how many people try to nail the composition for their beauty render at the concept stage and work towards that?
Fogmann had a bad experience trying to frame the mount+steed character I designed for her back in DW2 because I glossed over the fact that the final image had to be square. She did a pretty good job regardless, but I feel the process of getting there was more awkward and forced than it could have been.
It's like treating your entry as an illustration almost. You know, since in games we're always concerned with concentrating all the interesting bits where the camera tends to focus, why not do the same for DW?
Just wondering how many people try to nail the composition for their beauty render at the concept stage and work towards that?
Fogmann had a bad experience trying to frame the mount+steed character I designed for her back in DW2 because I glossed over the fact that the final image had to be square. She did a pretty good job regardless, but I feel the process of getting there was more awkward and forced than it could have been.
It's like treating your entry as an illustration almost. You know, since in games we're always concerned with concentrating all the interesting bits where the camera tends to focus, why not do the same for DW?
you do know that the image could have been rectangular right. the 1000px x 1000px was the limit, so 500px wide and 1000px high would have been fine.
Replies
If you finish i will be alone! all alone!
man i'm creeping myself out by wondering why i was so cruel to make bobo the dumpy cheerleader. sorry mang.
Per is a man magnet, not going to lie...... i mean.......... wut?
Cooler version coming soon
Spark
Wow, if you guys did something like that, I would totally fight for polycount this year.
eg: low res; high res; baking; texturing; compositing; as different stickies
that way, the brilliant texture artist who wants to help can really focus on the ones stuck on textures, while the sculptors can help out those stuck with their high res meshes etc
streamline the assistance, added to the usual crits left in individual WiP threads.
I like the one-comment-a-day idea the most, especially early in the conceptual stage.
if the 'pros' can provide an early boost in morale and support, then that goes a long way.
cant wait till midnight tonight
im excited like craaazy
But how can we GET out there without critique?
Its the artists that can't quite get that wow factor that suffer in these things and its not that we don't try, we just don't know how. We have the fundamentals but lack the polish and experience to come up with an impressive piece. Beginners have it easy, the more they suck the more crits they usually get.
Hopefully all these ideas in here will make this year a great one.
I mean, I'm amazed at how many people hinge their will to finish on how many crits they (don't?) receive. You make it easier for people to give critiques, if you bring your work to a level that's critique-able before posting.
/end unwarranted generic bad advice post
as a lot of people said before, a "need crits" thread would be great..
Yes, this.
What's the tentative list of Sticky Threads we're after for the Dominance War?
Help! Paintovers for execution & flow, small design brainstorms, etc. + specific areas for critique that you may be after
Rendering & Composition - Tips, tricks, techniques, suggestions and an overall sharking of knowledge for all things related to the final beauty shot(s).
The Competition - this is where we post links/images of outstanding characters being made on other communities. If you're browsing around and see one, share it with us here.
I'd let you tare my domwar2 entry - that didn't made it to the winnars - to pieces
Hopefully people wouldn't spam the help thread and use it only when they hit a serious road block.
A type of post-Mortem thread would be most amazing if we had some veterans who where willing to type up their thoughts.
Yay polycount!
Running through the entries to the mini comp there are quite a few entries that have great model, great texture and terrible presentation. I don't know if it'd be worth having another sticky for, but it does seem to be a real problem area - a lot of great work is going to miss out on recognition because after weeks of great work, the artist lacks the time or perhaps inclination to get that final layout looking schmick.
It's probably more of a time tabling thing than anything - people are leaving their final images until the last second and falling down because of it.
Fogmann had a bad experience trying to frame the mount+steed character I designed for her back in DW2 because I glossed over the fact that the final image had to be square. She did a pretty good job regardless, but I feel the process of getting there was more awkward and forced than it could have been.
It's like treating your entry as an illustration almost. You know, since in games we're always concerned with concentrating all the interesting bits where the camera tends to focus, why not do the same for DW?
Still more tricks up my sleeves
GA IS FULL o Hos
AND NOT THE GOOD ONES YO