Art Institute grads/students
polycount lvl 666
Their seems to be alot of threads that pop up over time about game art schools, and I've noticed that their are quite a few people here who came / hale from an Art Institute. Just for AIFL alone I can name Seforin, Justin Meisse, ScubaSteve, Cybroxide, CoolBreeze, Marisa, digitaldavinci, RawRanator, and myself.
What I'm wondering is, how mnay of you here have attended or graduated from one of the many Art Institutes? And also, after having had some experience with them did you come to like or loath them?
What I'm wondering is, how mnay of you here have attended or graduated from one of the many Art Institutes? And also, after having had some experience with them did you come to like or loath them?
Replies
everything i can, is because i taught myself,
so yea for me it was a waste of time, but i seam to hit the worst school in this area.
i could have better done another study on the side to maybe fall back on some day,
It didnt sound right so i edited it a bit*
Plus I discovered an awesome love... 2d animation =D
JO420- an apple? Do explain ^_^. Haha, just kiddin
Spark
P.S: Rens, I think people that go out and look for knowledge always apprecaite it more than those that sit back and expect it to be force fed to them. Graduating from Ringling, I had to do alot of footwork to get past what the classes were teaching me, but feel that helped alot in my career.
I can't say I didn't learn anything, because I came away with a job, but a LOT of that was me looking for learnings on my own time and practicing at home on my own projects as well as the schools.(thanks polycount!) plus networking, lots of networking.
the school didn't have enough traditional art classes, no classes on texturing or lighting whatsoever (materials and lighting class didn't really teach jack), and a bunch of general stuff in between that really didn't expand on what we learned at all. no mentioning of normal maps either. It was pretty weak.
I was lucky enough to not only have a good teacher for my modeling class but a roommate that had modeling experience to help me get a head start.
the critique there was just extremely weak too, coming from both classmates and teachers.
all in all I don't know if it was worth the price I paid, and if I could choose again I would do an Atelier or some sort of traditional art school and learn the programs on my own time. coulda saved a buck or two.
but the only thing that matters to me is that i'm happy with where I am. ai coulda done better.
(this school supposed to be one of the better ones in holland, but the teachers do not have any real industry experience, and mostly go the wrong way with what they teach. if they teach at all, 95% of the time you are set behind a desk to doodle around yourself, and if you have a question they cant awnser it, its like the weird tutorials on youtube but then in real life.. )
However, learning the basics of animation theory and some extensive anatomy classes were very valuable to me. But you can get those at any good art school.
Frank the Avenger
But in no way, shape, or form did it prepare me for the job market. More than half of my classes were fluff. And I am still paying for the shit.
I would avoid the AIs
They claimed there was like a 98% job placement rate.. but what they don't mention is how you'll have 80 students start the program and by graduation only 3-4 will be still around because of
a. they sucked and left
b. they sucked and were forced to leave
c. ran out of teh monies
The art training isn't anything grand.. all can be taught at a community college level. I wish I would have gone to a real art school instead. Of course I got a job, but only because I left at my first job offer and I used other sources to refine my skills.. *polycount, books etc...*
I know a lot of current students of an AI may not talk trash.. I didn't at the time but the majority of us have a sour experience once we get out and into the industry seeing what all we missed out on.
The best thing I got out of AI were my friends/contacts as sappy as it sounds :P
Essentially, all the work was done at home and I used school as a forum for sharing ideas and techniques with other students and to spend time looking at what others were doing. I realized with about a year left in the program, that I was not good enough to get job and I started busting my ass day in and day out. I had a phrase on my door in my room that said, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, don't."
So yeah, like others, I'm mostly self-taught. If I were to go do it again, I'd go to a small atelier/apprentice program full-time and learn 3d on my own. Much less expensive and a more grounded education in classical/traditional training.
I should really consider dropping out
I have friends that went that didn't have quite so good a time of it as I did though, so I may have just been lucky. :P
This makes me a sad panda
In the AI of fort lauderdale and i reach the same point of "WTF i learned nothing. I got to bust my ass".
I'm doing all sorts of online tutorials and dusting off those books i bought and never read.
I also had the same experience as Zwebbie... we spent way too much time on NURBS. I don't remember them mutch but I do recall nurbs being really finicky and it was a pain in the ass just to model something really simple that I could poly model in 10 seconds.
Another weird thing was this: I was taught how to model and rig in Maya and then all the animation classes were done in Max.
I myself think that learning nurbs (for 1/4th of the year btw) was a great experience and now I build with both nurbs and poly's combined which increased my workflow alot, I had no experience at all in maya and made this ship after 3 months:
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn288/el-ementrix/Finalrendertestonline1.jpg
what are you doing now zwebbie? Did you continue with 3D stuff, did you get a job?
It all reeked a bit too much for me; Teacher personally thinks NURBS is more fun than polygons, and a third or fourth of the year is spent doing it. Teacher did some building projects in the past, and so the third quarter is about buildings, with the lectures about the landscape of his homeplace Arizona. Teacher loves anatomy, fourth quarter is spent on anatomy, even though anatomy wasn't covered much or at all in drawing class yet. A little too much ego going on for me...
(I'm currently jobless and working on a portfolio to apply for a job sometime in the next half year. It's too bad I have this terrible habit of not finishing stuff)
Currently I'm in a speed modeling class that focuses on doing a high and low poly, unwrap texture and presentation within 3.5 hours. Awesome class.
we've got a new class that is very intensely focusing on zbrush, level design classes that focus directly on unreal engine 3, learning everything from basic use, material creation, kismet etc. We're constantly offered free weekend workshops with one on one time with instructors, to ask all the things you don't either have time to be taught in class, or are simply not understanding.
I've heard all sorts of horrible things about the AI's around the country, but am seeing first hand that AI San Diego is the best game art program throughout the company. Even the AI in orange county which is very close by i've heard just awful work comes from the students there.
Gotta remember that AI is a FOR PROFIT school, so they'll always pass hacks through just for paying.
Even if your AI isn't that great, it's up to you in the end to be a good artist. No educator or professor is going to magically make you become talented. Fuck if there were and ivy league game art school, and a bunch of hacks attended, they would still end up as hack artists.
With learning anything, it's on you - not your school. School is a formality. I happen to have really come to like my AI, even though I thought i was getting ripped off for a while.
Maybe it's not always the school that sucks... often times, it's the student that sucks.
I did learn and grow a lot during my time there, but a lot of it was because I made several friends at the school who were also quite motivated, which is a very effective environment, a lot of motivation between us. Too many people expect the classes and instructors to be all that is needed for them to get into the industry and be well off, all the classes and instructors do is serve as a guide. Sometimes the guide was more helpful and relevant to my specific interests than other times. The people who go far and get into the industry are the ones that are just driven and hard working in general, even more so in their own time than when they are taking the classes. It's all about the hunger and the overall experience that you put yourself through while being a game art student, not just the specific classes and material covered in those classes. And it's not AI's fault that it is like that, that's just how it is when it comes to getting good at anything. I know that's kind of frustrating considering the cost, but it seems unavoidable.
Consider two students who are in the same major, at the same school, taking the same class. One student goes home and continues working on a 3D/2D project for his/her portfolio that they are very passionate about and upon completion will take them one step closer to catching an employer's eye and getting them into the industry. The second student goes home, turns on one of their game consoles and spends hours playing (insert popular video game franchise here). It doesn't matter how good or bad the game art program at the school is, it doesn't matter how caring the instructors are, the first student is the one who will get a cool job in the industry. It's just common sense. A school's game art program could be pure shit, but at the end of the day it is you who has to take responsibility and go get what you want.
From what I've seen on the board here, it looks like at least one person is disparaging his former school without carefully considering his statements. If he thought about it, he may find that he has to acknowledge that although the methods didn't give him what he expected, others have achieved a great deal within the same system.
When I pay my monthly student loan bill, I consider most of it as having paid for the environment in general, and not so much the individual classes.
I work with about 6 or 7 AI people and they are all awesome artists. What we all have in common is we taught ourselves and found places or people to answer our questions and teach us what we needed to know. I saw ALOT of people playing WOW in class and after and then complaining about how their portfolios sucked (if they even managed to make one) in life we get what we put in.
IF you can stay disciplined and motivated I think self teaching is the best way to go.
So I figure %50 of your tuition goes to "push this button" classes. I don't think going to AIFL was a total waste because of the traditional classes... honestly, I'd pay the 13k all over again if I could spend the whole time taking life drawing classes from Mr. Radford.
I'm getting old and bitter so take that into account :-P
It's a bit of a pity then that I was misinformed beforehand; I had heard that we'd start off small and quick and work our way up, but a UV-mapped 9000 poly model as the first project does not sound small and easy. Furthermore, I was promised that we'd not go into normal maps the first year, but we were expected to make models normal mappable in the third block and to actually normal map them in the fourth - without explanation, I might add. If the school had been more honest with me, maybe I wouldn't have a 3000 debt now, so 'lovely' isn't what I'd call it.
The original poster clearly asked whether I liked or loathed my education and I can honestly say that I've had little but contempt for the 3D classes that I've received. If others students are happy with it, they're fully encouraged to register and share their opinions, but I can't do it for them (nor should I).
And if they do, they could also explain how vertices can have multiple normals and how hard-edging everything does not double the vertex count. Polycount still isn't convinced of that, last I heard
I go to the GLU (grafisch lyceum utrecht)
I wanted to go to Breda, but there were somethings that delayed it.
Today i dont even bother trying to go there anymore.
self study ftw!
btw zwebbie, why most of the students sound happy, is probably that they dont know, or hardly did anything with related software, so learning a new tool and the whole bang boom is totaly awesome,
for myself, I think I learned more in this half year than those two self study years before.
(mainly because I now have deadlines to make and so work a lot harder, get things teached and get direct and straightforward answers when asked, and because I try to compete with other students which makes me work even harder.)
but i wouldn't know what Max is if it wasnt for AI
i hope you didnt take my reply personaly,
i just ment students in general..
i thought id say that to avoid any unwanted mistakes
(im talking my school down here, not any people that attent to it)
self taught wise, im pretty happy of how things are going, i may not do as much as id like, but its going pretty good
But if I were to grade the instructors that taught us the technical aspect of 3d....overall they would receive a B. I'm being that generous because they did try their hardest so I cant discredit them in that regard. Would I recommend the school to aspiring artists? Kinda depends. Some need a classroom setting like I did when I first started out. Some need to learn to crawl before they can walk. Unfortunately my ass crawled away with a $70,000 student loan bill...but I dont regret not a minute of chosing to go there. I made some very lasting friendships...met some really weird people that somehow made the biggest impact on my life. I've learned so much since graduating in 2006...still trying to bite my way into the industry but I know I'll get there. I have a job right now doing graphic design type of work that helps pay the bills so I am fortunate enough to have that considering how tough the economy is.
My advice for aspiring artists considering school: weigh out your options. DVD tutorials, books, drawing classes around your area, joining forums like Polycount, GameArtisans, etc. Too bad Tweakcg still isnt around....I learned a butt load from those dudes.
Stubbs hit the nail on the head. There are students there who go because they love video games and think that it would be cool to learn how to make them, but then there are students who go who are really passionate about the art form, on top of loving video games. The passionate student works very hard and spends many hours outside of class refining his skills, because they understand that the demands of the industry are very high. The former goes home and plays video games.
One of my friends here said "The love of making games hasn't outweighed the love of PLAYING them".... and because of this, he goes home, and sits on a game console untill 1 AM, then rushes a project that's due the next morning at 8AM.... and he never gets better.
I think that everyone who goes to an AI who is serious about their career understands and can relate to those 2 types of students.
I do however agree that you can learn all there is to know about 3D art on the internet. If yo have the discipline you can teach yourself everything... the information is out there, however the problem i see with this is that it doesn't necessarily teach yo the proper social skills needed to attain a job. The general electives at the AI of Pittsburgh teach students alot about marketing yourself to an employer.
Communication skills are also very important... i have worked with people who self teach themselves shit on the internet who are very talented, and leagues better than me at things... but their communication skills are aweful. They are cocky, condescending, and just plain rude most of the time.
On another point, sure alot of our teachers in the Game Art program don't have "Game Industry Experience" but they still sink into their respective specialties... we have 5 currently, one who is in the industry and has a job here in pittsbugh as Schell Games, the other 4 specialize in things like Game theory, Animation, Illustration, and the Interactive Applications for games... They all do a damn good job at teaching their field too.
What i think we are seeing in the world these days is a paradigm shift in the way we recieve education. The internet grows and grows with information that is available to anyone at any given time (As long as you have the the means to view it). I am a firm believer that it's up to the individual seeking an education to have the discipline and interest to continue their education outside of the classroom.
As for my general opinion about the Art Intsitute of Pittsburgh: It's a great school, they teach the fundamentals of all the tough programs you need to know to get started, along with a solid traditional art foundation. The professors know everyone by name, and if you need advice and/or help, they are always there to be helpful... The fact of the matter is, it's extremely hard for them to keep up with the industry standards and technological advancements because most of them have families and lives outside of their work. So if you need to learn a professional and current workflow, you're better off seeking help here on polycount or other forums dedicated to 3d Art.
What do you guys think?
Some of the classes I took in my 4th or 5th quarter have advanced so much that now near the end of my time here I would love to retake them since they have changed completely. There are however a lot of worthless and pointless classes but that seems to be due to accreditations and all that crap.
But like many said its really the people who put in the extra effort every time that turn out work worth anything. School is just good because it gives you some limitations and deadlines and forces you to do some tedious projects that will probably be required when you get your entry level job.
I have seen tons of people who have terrible AI stories which is kinda weird because as Adam said I am enjoying my time so far. It might just be one of those high sight things that when I look back I wont feel the same but really because of the few good teachers who really push their students I have found it to be worth the time.
Though critiques from most teachers and students follow the same format of "thats cool" or "i like it a lot".
Most learning takes place outside of the class no matter what you do I think if you wish to be successful.
Don Ott
Carlos Dominguez
Jonney Estill
Ben Bellot
^these dudes make school worth every cent. I agree, it always comes down to teaching yourself, but with the right teachers, it enhances what you do tremendously.
That includes working with the right students too.
I agree completely with what is said here. My experience was very similar to this. I have seen many artists go through trials and tribulations during my time at AIP, though most of them do not even have any idea what type of dedication it takes to succeed as an artist.
Overall my experience of AIP was a good one. I had a great time meeting new people, and taking a new path in life. I am happy where I am now, working for a great company, and making a great game. lolz Though I could have done this one my own, I think AIP showed me the door, I had to go and open it (thank you matrix.)
Edit:
I guess Catizone is still there, I was mistaken.
*drools* Primanti's
I don't know, I'm thinkin arby's though... it's closer
Frank the Avenger
As far as my school was concerned, there where plenty of bad teachers and plenty of good teachers.. i was fortunate enough to have the best teachers at that school, and i made the best of it.
But if students that are there are negative about everything becuase they are unhappy with what they are learning, or having a bad experience, take action. drop class (swap for different teacher), transfer to diff school. worst case scenario, drop out. quit whining do something...
Some people have the inherant ability to be great artists, designers, animators, etc.. others dont and need some guidance, hence schools like AI. If you were unfortunate enough to have poor guidance, it could be the teachers, but it could also be YOU.
I myself tend to be an overachiever, but there where plenty of students at my school who where just there, either just to be at school and get thier parents off their backs, trying to find themselves, or busting their ass off to make something of themselves.
Those that did take advantage of what was offered (regardless of how they felt about the curriculum or teachers) did very well. eventually getting good jobs in the industry and those people where the hard workers.. the NONSLACKERS... some where there just to be there, and tended to be slackers. I dont like slackers so i stayed away from them and those slackers eventually dropped out cause it was too hard, they where too bored, or just plain sucked at what ever it was they did.. most of those dropped out..
those slackers tended to be 'dreamers'... dreaming of being great but never taking the initiative and doing something about it or doing it for themselves... stuff isnt handed out and neither is skill.. you gotta craft it yourself...
"you can dream a little dream,
or you can live a little dream,
i'd rather live it,
dreamers always chase but never get it..."
-aesop rock
my point: dont settle... if your not happy make it known... and take action... stop blaming other people, businesses, what-ever.. more than likely .. its you that has the issues.... and you alone can fix em...
We had a Canadian student and school worked out pretty good for him aswell. Just saying its not impossible for non swedish talking people to apply.
The school is run by great people and its open 24/7 so you can always be there hang out and study stuff. The actual school work load is not that bad most of the time (ofcourse duing our projects it seemed to get pretty insane at times :P) Sp you will have spare time to work on skills you improve.
The location: If you are one of those people getting unfocused its ok because Falun is in the middle of sweden with very little else to do except school :P Its a nice little town surrounded by forrest.
Im writing this because I owe them, thanks! I know some of u guys will read this.
lol
But yeah, I was hoping to get together with some high school friends who were going to college for programming and make some small projects once I found the ropes. Unfortunately the kid went to Duquesne and he won't be able to do anything game-related until almost his senior year and with his other classes he doesn't have much time to study on his own =[
I'd look for other people's projects to help with, but I'm still working my way around all the necessary programs and would be more of a hindrance than a help at the moment
I was never against college, but I never wanted to jump into anything before I knew for certain it was going to benefit me. I didn't want to be one of those who spent the money and rushed into something, only to wind up not using it (or not using it to its full potential), and then winding up in debt with nothing to show for it.
I acknowledged in full that what I would likely get from college above all else was the connections, the environment. But I've always been relatively good with people, never had a problem getting into a community when I set my mind to it. I grew up around colleges, as well. My Dad's been a college professor, head of various departments to a lot of colleges for my whole life. Looking at the student's work, I felt that self-taught, I could progress much faster. I have even had the freedom of attending a couple college classes free of charge, because of a former high school teacher I had who went on to become a professor.
I believe I have the motivation and commitment needed to progress on my own. Getting married will give you a lot of motivation and real life experience.
Things like this here provide for me more than enough community experience and conversation in the art community. Thanks a bunch to everyone for sharing their views, people like me appreciate it.